Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 748 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22411 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I'm guessing no new JVC's until fall 2018 so this is a remarkable turn of events that will easily hold over until the next big thing.
Really?

That never occurred to me (though maybe it should have) that there would be no new JVCs announced as usual this fall.
I've upgraded every two years, because in that period there is always some significant upgrade - e.g. contrast, DI, Brightness, E-shift, etc. Given I was counting on an upgrade this fall I've be quite disappointed if they announce nothing new. I guess the new models strangely introduced this winter throw a wrench into predictions, but I see those as just tiny tweaks to existing models, nothing like the significance usually seen in two-year spans betweeen models.
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post #22412 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 01:31 PM
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New Arve wip tool

Hi folks...could someone please provide the link? I searched high and low and can't find it...also what file runs the program...? Thanks

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post #22413 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Thank you! The Panny has been a great player - first with my RS600, and now with my RS4500. Get one ! Get Best Buy to price match the lowest price you can find on line, and return the Samsung as a down payment on it !
I will look into that thanks Not to go off topic but i now have 2 uhd movies ( ghostbusters and Hacksaw ridge ) and neither one will load on either machine the blu ray copies are fine. My other 2 movies star trek beyond and pacific rim are fine. Seems odd that the 2movies i just bought wont load on either player.

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post #22414 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 01:49 PM
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Is there a PDF or good doc on working with WIP? This thread moves pretty fast and the important posts get lost in the haystack. Too bad Arve's work isn't discussed in a separate thread with sticky notes at the top for easy reference like the other JVC threads.
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post #22415 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 01:51 PM
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@Javs or others who use JVC to play game, do you use same calibration as in movies or have a separate one for game?
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post #22416 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Is there a PDF or good doc on working with WIP? This thread moves pretty fast and the important posts get lost in the haystack. Too bad Arve's work isn't discussed in a separate thread with sticky notes at the top for easy reference like the other JVC threads.
I try to link the key posts in this thread re HDR calibration in the first post of the JVC autocal thread (HDR gamma section), but I agree it's not ideal.
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post #22417 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Really?

That never occurred to me (though maybe it should have) that there would be no new JVCs announced as usual this fall.
I've upgraded every two years, because in that period there is always some significant upgrade - e.g. contrast, DI, Brightness, E-shift, etc. Given I was counting on an upgrade this fall I've be quite disappointed if they announce nothing new. I guess the new models strangely introduced this winter throw a wrench into predictions, but I see those as just tiny tweaks to existing models, nothing like the significance usually seen in two-year spans betweeen models.
This was an odd cycle. a few years back it was year to year with the updates then the gap from 2014-2016, then a follow up a little more than a year later in early 2017. I can't imagine them updating again in 6 months. Better OOTB HDR and low lag should be easy to keep selling throughout end of 2018.

time to fire up that UB900 and start playing with the linker + custom curves, it will make the next 1.5 years an easier ride..
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post #22418 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dan webster View Post
I will look into that thanks Not to go off topic but i now have 2 uhd movies ( ghostbusters and Hacksaw ridge ) and neither one will load on either machine the blu ray copies are fine. My other 2 movies star trek beyond and pacific rim are fine. Seems odd that the 2movies i just bought wont load on either player.
I didn't have Hacksaw Ridge when I had te Samsung, but all the others I had loaded. I have 37 4K Blu Rays now, and they all work with the Panasonic.
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post #22419 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Hi folks...could someone please provide the link? I searched high and low and can't find it...also what file runs the program...? Thanks
https://github.com/arvehj/jvcprojectortools/tree/wip
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post #22420 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:46 PM
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Serious issue with the RS620.
I'm posting this on the RS600 thread as there is more traffic here.
Anyway what I'm seeing is hard to describe but there is NO pure Black in the picture, it is tinted with Red hovering like a cloud over dark parts of the picture.

I tried to unplug the unit for 7-8 minutes ,but the issue continues.
I'm attaching a screen shot of one of the Oppo 103 Menu pages which should have been Black, but now has like a cloud of Red over it.

Any ideas ?

Ran
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post #22421 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Serious issue with the RS620.
I'm posting this on the RS600 thread as there is more traffic here.
Anyway what I'm seeing is hard to describe but there is NO pure Black in the picture, it is tinted with Red hovering like a cloud over dark parts of the picture.

I tried to unplug the unit for 7-8 minutes ,but the issue continues.
I'm attaching a screen shot of one of the Oppo 103 Menu pages which should have been Black, but now has like a cloud of Red over it.

Any ideas ?

Ran
Call JVC service.
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post #22422 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Serious issue with the RS620.
I'm posting this on the RS600 thread as there is more traffic here.
Anyway what I'm seeing is hard to describe but there is NO pure Black in the picture, it is tinted with Red hovering like a cloud over dark parts of the picture.

I tried to unplug the unit for 7-8 minutes ,but the issue continues.
I'm attaching a screen shot of one of the Oppo 103 Menu pages which should have been Black, but now has like a cloud of Red over it.

Any ideas ?

Ran
Did you do a JVC Autocal? Have you played with dark gamma red? I'd try to clear the gamma settings, possibly restore your init file if you've played with the autocal. Do a factory reset as well. If that doesn't help, it might be time to call support...
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post #22423 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 02:57 PM
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There is no official JVC service over here and the unit was purchased overseas.

Any other ideas I can try?

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post #22424 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:01 PM
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Thanks Manni.

I have not played with Autocal. I just fired up the unit and that's what I saw.

I'll try following your suggestions.

Thanks.


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post #22425 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:14 PM
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Boy I disappear for a few days and apparently missed a ton. I'll piggyback Steven, is there a PDF primer on using the WIP tool?

Or perhaps anyone with an rs600, 130" wide screen and 16' throw care to share successful WIP parameters?

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post #22426 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:18 PM
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Factory reset did the trick. Thanks Manni for your suggestion.

Too bad for all the hours I spent on calibrating the unit....need to re-do this.

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post #22427 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:22 PM
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Final thoughts on latest curves and low-res beta curves to download

I've done more testing with the lastest curves and here is the latest:

- I've settled for a max brightness of 800nits. With my 135nits effective (low lamp, iris fully open, DI on auto2), this gives me the best compromise: decent native on/off (45000:1), excellent black levels (especially when the DI kicks in), best possible ANSI contrast, no fan noise. The picture is punchy and contrasty. I think I'll settle for that.
- At 800nits max brightness, black brightness had to be reduced. 0.02 is enough to resolve down to 0.005nits (black at level 77, resolving down to level 81). If I wanted to resolve down to level 64, I would only need 0.03.
- I have done more tests with actual content and I've now settled to resolving down to level 81 (black at 77). Better black floor in many titles, and no visible black crush in the others.
- It seems like 4000nits titles (all mastered to 0.005nits black) do not benefit as much from the better black floor as the titles mastered to 1000nits/0.005nits, such as Lucy. I tried a few dark 1000nits titles, including The Revenant (mastered to 0nits black), and I couldn't see any visible black crush resolving only to 0.005nits.
- I've tested the usual: The Shallows, Mad Max, Lucy, Pacific Rim, they all looked amazing, so I'm very happy with this new Unicurve. So to sum up my settings with the wip branch:
Max bright: 800nits
Ref white: 100nits
Black brightness: 0.02 (resolving down to 0.005nits/level 81 on my unit for black at level 77)
Soft clip start: auto (335 effective if you're not using wip yet))
Hard clip: 4000nits
SEC: 0.75
Soft curve type: 0
Soft curve gamma: 1
This should work very well for anyone with around 130-140nits peak white (it doesn't matter if in low lamp or high lamp). Less than that, lower max brightness, more than that raise max brightness.
I'm done for this round of testing, I'm going to watch some movies over the next couple of weeks and I'll report back if there is anything worth reporting.
I attach the low-res version of the two curves I've been testing, but I haven't tried them in low-res. They should be imported by the JVC Autocal software, as all the previous curves. If the feedback is good, I'll link them to the first post of the JVC Autocal thread.
They are meant to be used with the JVC set to 0,0 and the player set to 0,0 as well.
The black levels might not be right for your unit, and the curve might be too bright or too dim for your setup. There is nothing I can do about that, but you can: use the wip branch of Arve's tool to create your own curve and do it right, or hire someone to do it .

Good luck!
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post #22428 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I've done more testing with the lastest curves and here is the latest:

- I've settled for a max brightness of 800nits. With my 135nits effective (low lamp, iris fully open, DI on auto2), this gives me the best compromise: decent native on/off (45000:1), excellent black levels (especially when the DI kicks in), best possible ANSI contrast, no fan noise. The picture is punchy and contrasty. I think I'll settle for that.
- At 800nits max brightness, black brightness had to be reduced. 0.02 is enough to resolve down to 0.005nits (black at level 77, resolving down to level 81). If I wanted to resolve down to level 64, I would only need 0.03.
- I have done more tests with actual content and I've now settled to resolving down to level 81 (black at 77). Better black floor in many titles, and no visible black crush in the others.
- It seems like 4000nits titles (all mastered to 0.005nits black) do not benefit as much from the better black floor as the titles mastered to 1000nits/0.005nits, such as Lucy. I tried a few dark 1000nits titles, including The Revenant (mastered to 0nits black), and I couldn't see any visible black crush resolving only to 0.005nits.
- I've tested the usual: The Shallows, Mad Max, Lucy, Pacific Rim, they all looked amazing, so I'm very happy with this new Unicurve. So to sum up my settings with the wip branch:
Max bright: 800nits
Ref white: 100nits
Black brightness: 0.02 (resolving down to 0.005nits/level 81 on my unit for black at level 77)
Soft clip start: auto (335 effective if you're not using wip yet))
Hard clip: 4000nits
SEC: 0.75
Soft curve type: 0
Soft curve gamma: 1
This should work very well for anyone with around 130-140nits peak white (it doesn't matter if in low lamp or high lamp). Less than that, lower max brightness, more than that raise max brightness.
I'm done for this round of testing, I'm going to watch some movies over the next couple of weeks and I'll report back if there is anything worth reporting.
I attach the low-res version of the two curves I've been testing, but I haven't tried them in low-res. They should be imported by the JVC Autocal software, as all the previous curves. If the feedback is good, I'll link them to the first post of the JVC Autocal thread.
They are meant to be used with the JVC set to 0,0 and the player set to 0,0 as well.
The black levels might not be right for your unit, and the curve might be too bright or too dim for your setup. There is nothing I can do about that, but you can: use the wip branch of Arve's tool to create your own curve and do it right, or hire someone to do it .

Good luck!
Boom, and this is the post I have been waiting for. I will try these.

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post #22429 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Boom, and this is the post I have been waiting for. I will try these.
Beware that this is the low-res version of the curves I use. They have 11 controls points instead of 256.
There is no substitute to using Arve's tool to get the best possible curves, but these might give you an idea of the potential.
The low-res version is untested (I simply exported my hi-res curves, I haven't re-loaded the low-res version to check them).

You'll still need a linker to get proper fade to black with the DI
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post #22430 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Beware that this is the low-res version of the curves I use. They have 11 controls points instead of 256.
There is no substitute to using Arve's tool to get the best possible curves, but these might give you an idea of the potential.
The low-res version is untested (I simply exported my hi-res curves, I haven't re-loaded the low-res version to check them).


You'll still need a linker to get proper fade to black
No no you just listed all your Arve tool input specs as far as I can tell, I am going to try those.
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post #22431 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
No no you just listed all your Arve tool input specs as far as I can tell, I am going to try those.

I had already listed them yesterday, but you must have missed them
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post #22432 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post
Thanks, what option do I chose 1 setup hdr, 2 set brightness and contrast for source, or 3 load into projector and tune with contrast control? I tried 1 but it looked like it wanted to load a curve before I entered any parms thx

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post #22433 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 03:58 PM
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I had already listed them yesterday, but you must have missed them
I literally cant keep up with this thread. But thanks anyway.

Building four sub-woofers last couple weeks, they are done, been trying to juggle calibrating 3000watts worth of bass into my room (I am equally festidious with audio as I am video), and playing the new Zelda (INcredible game), and enjoying my new projector, I am pretty buried in stuff to do, hence never once trying any of these curves just yet. Not to mention, I don't even have any new UHDBR's to watch, its all been HD SDR so far, which, still looks fantastic.

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post #22434 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 04:52 PM
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Most of us have switched our attention to the Linker, but if you need the switching capability that the Integral provides you should act now.

HDFury has ended production of the Integral. Price on remaining stock has been reduced by $50.
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post #22435 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Thanks, what option do I chose 1 setup hdr, 2 set brightness and contrast for source, or 3 load into projector and tune with contrast control? I tried 1 but it looked like it wanted to load a curve before I entered any parms thx
Start the program and load a curve you've saved or a default one. OTTOMH I think the command is lp. Then ga. I haven't figured out SET UP HDR option yet. Arve says use it, Manni says he doesn't. I couldn't get it to work as it wanted me to INCREASE contrast instead of lowering it. I used a well known (to me) scene that will have lots of crush if contrast is too high (from Pan, I'll note the timestamp). I then lowered contrast to -15 to the point where there was no more crush. Then I used that option 3 to load into pj, IIRC. That takes your contrast into account and adjusts the curve and puts contrast back at 0. So cool.
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post #22436 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 05:12 PM
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I love using the WIP version... so slick with auto plot, seeing curve change right away will make detail changes much easier to monitor. Also nice how the soft clip start is auto-calculated. Finally, having black brightness setting is a really good idea, nailing down bottom end so I can avoid raising black floor and compensating in JVC or 203.

I'm at: 450
100
0.018
None
4000
195
0.75
0
1
Time to enjoy some movies.
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post #22437 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Start the program and load a curve you've saved or a default one. OTTOMH I think the command is lp. Then ga. I haven't figured out SET UP HDR option yet. Arve says use it, Manni says he doesn't. I couldn't get it to work as it wanted me to INCREASE contrast instead of lowering it. I used a well known (to me) scene that will have lots of crush if contrast is too high (from Pan, I'll note the timestamp). I then lowered contrast to -15 to the point where there was no more crush. Then I used that option 3 to load into pj, IIRC. That takes your contrast into account and adjusts the curve and puts contrast back at 0. So cool.
Thx, loaded option 1 sdrbt1886 then ga. Got error msg of "not supported between instances of "float" and "nonetype"

Any insight Sir? Thanks

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post #22438 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 05:13 PM
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"Highlight clipping" feature in Arve's tool wip branch

There is an amazing feature in Arve's tool wip branch where you can tell it to highlight all areas of the picture that are being soft clipped and or hard clipped. It provides a great way to get a sense for how much and what content specifically is being clipped on a scene by scene basis, as you watch the movie, in real time!

As an example, take a look at the attached screens. I have a darkish, medium and brightish curve in custom gamma 1, 2 and 3, respectively. You can see how the clipping increases as the curves I've generated increased in brightness. This is a dream for people like me that are trying to create custom curves while maximzing brightness because you can get a great sense for how much information is being clipped and where, in the quest to balance the tradeoff between keeping it bright and keeping it from being too crushed.

To use this you simply need to load your curve into the wip branch and then enter one of these commands:
hl c sc hc (highlight, clear any things already set, highlight soft clipped areas, highligh hard clipped areas)
or
hl c sc if you just want to see soft clip or
hl c hc if you just want to see hard clip

Afterward you have to write the gamma table back to the pj with "Pw". Once done you have to enter "hl c" to clear highlights and then "Pw" to write it back to the pj without the highlights.

Very cool! I haven't tried it yet, but there's something similar for highlighting black so you can tell if you are crushing and by how much.
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post #22439 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Hi Ric,


Please re-read the whole post you quoted. You can resolve down to 68 (68 blinking, black 64 not blinking) or you can resolve down to 81 (81 blinking, black 77 not blinking). I'm asking for different tests with different content to see if we can use a single Unicurve resolving down to 81 (better black floor for most titles, which are mastered to 0.005nits black, not 0nits black, with no loss of shadow details that I could detect in my limited testing for the remaining titles) or if we also need a curve resolving down to 68 for titles mastered to 0nits black.
First, you should know that any post I am responding to about this complex HDR curve discussion, I have read at least a dozen times before responding.

I read it again just now a few more times per your recommendation to revisit it. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't address my question. From your message I gather that we have an option (?) of setting black by using 64 as a reference (and targetting, 68 blinking) or targetting 77, 81 blinking). But my question is - which is the right one to target? When would you target one over the other? Now I may have missed that from another post at some point, but unless I am really overlooking it, its not in the post you referred me back to. Thanks!
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post #22440 of 31818 Old 03-09-2017, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
First, you should know that any post I am responding to about this complex HDR curve discussion, I have read at least a dozen times before responding.

I read it again just now a few more times per your recommendation to revisit it. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't address my question. From your message I gather that we have an option (?) of setting black by using 64 as a reference (and targetting, 68 blinking) or targetting 77, 81 blinking). But my question is - which is the right one to target? When would you target one over the other? Now I may have missed that from another post at some point, but unless I am really overlooking it, its not in the post you referred me back to. Thanks!
I "think" he mentioned 70 percent of discs to target 81 blinking and since 70 percent are this way, that's what he was going to use, even for the other 30 percent
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