Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 750 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22471 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 05:29 AM
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post #22472 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by IMDave View Post
Thanks Steve.
Yes, I had DI off and il set to standard.
Unfortunately, as I say, no changes I make for bb make any difference to the flashing of the series from 64 - 90 in Black clipping pattern #2.
They all flash whether bb is 0.0 or 0.5, or anything in between.
I try Manni01' s suggestion of looking at one of my other Custom gammas tomorrow.
I think the WIP branch has given the possibilty of having one universal curve, because other than this raised black issue, everything else is looking really good.
Do you have a newer model? On my 520 I have to set brightness -1 in my panasonic AND leave black brightness at zero to get 77 black. That might explain why no values you used for bb made any difference as 64 is already resolved at 0 brightness settings.
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post #22473 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 07:18 AM
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Hey Claw, pls remind me of your screen size, gain, throw distance etc...thanks man
As I mentioned yesterday, I have yet to purchase a screen. I had pretty much decided on a Stewart Cima, but then all this discussion recently about high gain screens has me thinking again.

So I am currently projecting to a custom Behr gray painted screen 16:9 118 inch from 15 feet. This probably explains my preference for the max brightness value of 500.
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post #22474 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
As I mentioned yesterday, I have yet to purchase a screen. I had pretty much decided on a Stewart Cima, but then all this discussion recently about high gain screens has me thinking again.

So I am currently projecting to a custom Behr gray painted screen 16:9 118 inch from 15 feet. This probably explains my preference for the max brightness value of 500.
Thanks, is the point of the wip to allow the ratio of max brightness and ref white to automatically set the 4000 clip and to allow the value of bb to automatically set black clip at the right level with all else being zeroed out and that's how you know you have the right curve?

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post #22475 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
...Great, please double check that your 500 curve does resolve down to 81, create another one resolving down to 68, and please do the testing requested above and in my initial post about setting brightness. We do need feedback on this to decide whether it's an acceptable practice for our projectors to resolve down to 81, so we only need one Unicurve, or if it does have a downside with some titles.
Will do. It was late last night when I created the 600 and 500 versions and I was a bit bleary-eyed from a long day of work staring at a monitor so I will verify the bb setting again tonight. Then I will load a 500/81 curve in both custom1 and custom 3, and a 500/77 curve in custom 2. That way I can use the gamma button to quickly change from 81 to 77 to 81 again to compare.
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post #22476 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 07:31 AM
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@Manni01 ,

Are you using Calman to test if the black levels are rising or your eyes? I looked at two different parameters with black levels at 77 and at 64 (800 curve) and you're right, couldn't tell any difference between the two on the Revenant campfire scene where DiCaprio is talking to his son, so I'm going to stick with 77. I need to bust out Calman and see exactly how many FtL I'm getting with this gamma...I was using high lamp before, but like you, I don't like the noise and don't want to shorten the bulb life if I don't have to. I also popped in Lucy for the first 15 minutes and it's never looked better!
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post #22477 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Jeff knows JVC's and HDR too. I have him scheduled to calibrate my RS4500, so I'll give a full report.
Thanks. I misremembered. Jeff has done 3X for me: Qualia 006, Sim2 C3X, and Sony XBR 79" and was really pleased. I hadn't considered Jeff for my RS600 because I'm really interested in the HDR custom gamma and linker combo and ChadB is the only top calibrator I've heard doing this. I'm on the wait list for the next time ChadB gets to TX, but if Jeff is doing similar work and is down here sooner, I'd like to know. Do you think the RS4500 will benefit from a custom gamma? Looking forward to your report. Jeff posted his results on my Sony Qualia 006, as it was his first (and one of the first in the country).

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post #22478 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Last week, I finally had ChadB calibrate my RS500. The primary purpose was to be able to watch 4K. I was perfectly content with 1080P based upon the few adjustments I had made from hints from this thread, and had I no interest in 4K, I would not have used his services. Results: While the changes in 1080P were, to my eyes, subtle, they were important. Phenomenal picture!!! Glad he did his magic.

4K is a different story. Yesterday I got a chance to watch parts of the very few 4K movies I have access to (Lucy, Magnificent 7, Salt, Bourne) since ChadB was here. My screen gain is ~1, screen size is 120" x 51", I am using an Oppo, and I don't want to use high lamp since the projector is just over and slightly behind my head. Given this, I will stick with stripping meta data and watching SDR/WCG. It looks amazing. And to my eyes, even when comparing SDR/WCG to a good HDR image of the same scene, I don't think I give up much (Lucy has some great scenes for this purpose near the beginning of the film when she is in the hotel lobby). The variability of the mastering of the various 4K movies, coupled with the need to remember to change from Gamma D to ChadB's custom curve, (and the need for my wife to be able to use our theater), means SDSR/WCG wins. It is way more than good enough after Chad did whatever he did. If my screen were high gain (e.g. 2.8 or similar), and/or I had a much brighter PJ (RS4500 )I might be inclined to give 4K a chance, but consider me a happy JVC user.

I am still blown away by the image the JVC projector puts out.
That's great that you are happy with HDR now 👍🏼 I'm having ChadB out for a calibration on March 30th. With my .94 gain 130" wide screen it will be interesting to see if SDR/WCG using panny and low lamp, or custom curve high lamp wins out. I don't mind high lamp for action movies, but would prefer to keep it in low lamp most of the time due to the noise.
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post #22479 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:11 AM
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Thanks, is the point of the wip to allow the ratio of max brightness and ref white to automatically set the 4000 clip and to allow the value of bb to automatically set black clip at the right level with all else being zeroed out and that's how you know you have the right curve?
The curve parameters that Manni suggested resolve to 4000 nits whether I set max brightness to 800 or to 500 so nothing to do there.

The wip version will automatically determine the soft clip begin point. That value goes lower as you lower the max brightness you choose.

So the only check to be made is black clipping by changing the bb parameter up or down from 0 to .030 or so and find the one that resolves to bar 81. (77 flashing).

All brightness and contrast settings in the JVC and player should be zero. And iris should also be set to manual while testing the patterns. Then return iris to Auto 2 after.
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post #22480 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
Thanks. I misremembered. Jeff has done 3X for me: Qualia 006, Sim2 C3X, and Sony XBR 79" and was really pleased. I hadn't considered Jeff for my RS600 because I'm really interested in the HDR custom gamma and linker combo and CraigB is the only top calibrator I've heard doing this. I'm on the wait list for the next time CraigB gets to TX, but if Jeff is doing similar work and is down here sooner, I'd like to know. Do you think the RS4500 will benefit from a custom gamma? Looking forward to your report. Jeff posted his results on my Sony Qualia 006, as it was his first (and one of the first in the country).
I conversed with Jeff yesterday. I don't think he's a big fan of the custom gamma route. I don't plan to use one myself on my RS4500. The pre - set HDR looks really good - I'll probably have him look at dialing that in a bit better.
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post #22481 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Soft clip start: auto (335 effective if you're not using wip yet))
Quick question regarding the Auto selection (Effective 335 if not using the WIP branch) , is it just a matter of leaving that as default?


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post #22482 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
Steve,

I jumped into this last night and the WIP program is easy to learn once you get into it. I printed out the PDF for the regular version and once I experimented with the WIP, I feel confident in what I'm doing now. Just give it a try and you'll be surprised at how easy it is to pick it up.

Same here, I was intimidated at first, but now getting my head around it.

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post #22483 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:21 AM
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I conversed with Jeff yesterday. I don't think he's a big fan of the custom gamma route. I don't plan to use one myself on my RS4500. The pre - set HDR looks really good - I'll probably have him look at dialing that in a bit better.
Is there a reason why? Especially for those of us with RS-500/600's. A custom gamma curve has got to be better than gamma D!
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post #22484 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:39 AM
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Is there a reason why? Especially for those of us with RS-500/600's. A custom gamma curve has got to be better than gamma D!
It's absolutely necessary on our projectors to do this. 4K UHD discs look amazing now
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post #22485 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:50 AM
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It's absolutely necessary on our projectors to do this. 4K UHD discs look amazing now
Yeah, I now see Craig was answering a question regarding the RS-4500.
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post #22486 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I know you have read the post, and probably re-read it, but I'm asking again: please re-read the post.

[EDIT: Here's the link: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...#post51346873] and a bit more info here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...#post51359041]]
Oh, THAT (first) post. . I thought you were talking about another one, which didn't cover the background of "why". I get it now. Side note - your links (not just these but other times too) sometimes have an extra "]" in them, not sure what causes that.

Perhaps it's because my light output is so much lower than yours and perhaps it may also be due to my bat cave or low screen gain, but in my setup, with 0 for black brightness and 0 for brightness in the JVC and panny, I see flashing bars for everything except 68 and 64. When I say I need to raise black brightness a hair, that is to get bar 68 to flash. Just to put the amount of headroom into perspective between this point and the higher clipping point of 77 you are talking about... I have to lower the JVC brightness control to -3 in order to purposely "crush" things so that the lowest blinking bar is 81 (I know not to use the brightness control to do this - I'm just making the point of how far away that point is from my true black floor with my setup - it does not sound like that's the case for you).

So in my case, in order to purposely crush things so that 77 is my black floor, I would need to use a NEGATIVE value for black brightness. I'm not sure the tool will allow that, or if it does, whether the algorithms would handle that and compensate correctly. But I'll give it a try tonight and do the testing you've requested on Lucy and Hitman and some 4000 nit titles. If the bb param doesn't appear to work right with a negative number, then I'll "force" it by adjusting the brightness control instead.

Besides the fade to blacks, are there any other good scenes in Lucy to look for black levels that are too raised? One thing that bother me in this title is there appears to be crush some scenes. For instance the guy who first greets Lucy at the hotel behind the counter - his black blazer - you can't really see the lapels - just blends in with the jacket. Is that crushed in the source?
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post #22487 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:55 AM
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Why a dedicated curve for 1000 nit titles may make sense for me...?

@Manni01 - A few weeks ago we talked about whether there would be any advantage in my case to have a dedicated curve for 1000 nit titles that does a hard clip at 1200 instead of 4000. IIRC you didn't think that would buy me anything. However after some experimentation last night, it does seem there is a big advantage to this in my case. I wanted to explain what I observed and see if this makes sense or if you think something is wrong...

To date, almost all my experimentation with custom HDR has been with Pan, a 4000 nit title. I used the bright sky scenes to set the clipping point for contrast and then told Arve's tool to fix the curve based on that, which works great. To confirm, when I watch this scene there is no crush in the brightest parts of the sky with contrast at 0. If I lower contrast, there is no change in detail, which tells me that the contrast is not set to high. And if I raise contrast, I start to see some crush. Together, this tells me that my HDR curve is set perfectly to the point where its as bright as possible without introducing any crush.

Now in Lucy at 1000 nits with this same curve, when I checked very bright scenes that would show crush if there was any, I also confirmed there was no crush as I lowered contrast from 0 and no crush was revealed. HOWEVER, when I raised contrast about 0, I was surprised to see I had the headroom to go up to +5 before it started to crush (unlike with Pan where contrast 0 was as high as it could go without crushing). So I then told Arve's tool to readjust my curve based on contrast +5, and it did, raising the soft clip point in the process. The result is a curve that is nicely brighter and without clipping.

Does this make sense to you - that in my case I could have one curve for 1000 nit titles and another for 4000 nit titles, and be able to take advantage of this extra headroom in the 1000 nit titles for a brighter curve without any of the downsides from white crush? Arve's tool certainly seemed like it created a more optimal curve when I gave it this additional +5 contrast to work with in readjusting the curve, and in watching content, I haven't noticed any downside - just a more vivid picture.

Curious what @arve thinks of this as well.

Thanks!
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post #22488 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 08:58 AM
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Yeah, I now see Craig was answering a question regarding the RS-4500.
That beast has 3000 lumens! He is on a different playground.
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post #22489 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 09:03 AM
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That beast has 3000 lumens! He is on a different playground.
I think the RS600 is going to keep me very happy for many years to come, but if JVC ever puts out a laser light canon for a price comparable to an RS600/620 -- I'd be all over that.

Can't wait to see what will be offered by JVC in another 5 years.
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post #22490 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
@Manni01 ,

Are you using Calman to test if the black levels are rising or your eyes? I looked at two different parameters with black levels at 77 and at 64 (800 curve) and you're right, couldn't tell any difference between the two on the Revenant campfire scene where DiCaprio is talking to his son, so I'm going to stick with 77. I need to bust out Calman and see exactly how many FtL I'm getting with this gamma...I was using high lamp before, but like you, I don't like the noise and don't want to shorten the bulb life if I don't have to. I also popped in Lucy for the first 15 minutes and it's never looked better!
Hi Dave,

No I haven't had the time to get Calman out, only doing it by eye for now. Thanks for confirming that you can't see a loss of shadow detail either with the 77 curve. I plan to check a few other titles mastered to 0nits but in the meantime I can't fail my last 800-100-335-4000 curve (77 black). HDR in low lamp with the right curve is the way forward for us, but we have the luxury of being able to do this. Power to the tiny screens

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I conversed with Jeff yesterday. I don't think he's a big fan of the custom gamma route. I don't plan to use one myself on my RS4500. The pre - set HDR looks really good - I'll probably have him look at dialing that in a bit better.
Is he not a big fan because he's tried it and doesn't like the result, or because he hasn't tried it/doesn't know how to do it? It does take some time to get it right, even with Arve's tool.

It might be entirely different on a laser 4500, so I don't have any opinion regarding calibrating HDR on these and he might be right, but writing off custom curves in a blanket statement for all models doesn't make sense. The x20 models might be a bit easier to setup, but even for these a custom curve should give far better results with one curve for all titles. And for our models with a broken gamma D, there is simply no way around it to get a good HDR calibration.

Hopefully Javs will confirm this soon, I trust his eyes . I also trust Zombie10K, Kris, Dave, Atabea, Wookii, Claw and many others, and I don't think we'd all agree if there was nothing to gain. I would also trust Stranger89, but for some reason he's happy with his manual curve and hasn't drunk the Arve potion yet... Maybe he struck gold right away, in which case he was very lucky .

I've just watched Sicario on UHD Bluray in HDR (I had already watched the bluray a while ago) and the picture is phenomenal. Great DOP of course, but the PQ is great, highly recommended. Great shadow detail resolving down to 81 (it's a 0.005nits titles so no detail lost anyway) and fantastic black floor (using the Linker of course to get the DI back).

It's great to be able to finally watch HDR properly on our models. It took a while, a lot of effort, but it was worth it.
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post #22491 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
You'll need to download and install Python 3.6 for Windows and Avre's WIP zip first. Make sure you're in the user (BT.2020 profile) and custom gamma (1->3) setting you want to update. Zero out the JVC picture adjustments too (CR and BR to 0) and turn off DI (Manual / IRIS 0) and follow what Zombie posted on getting the Python menu.py script running and the eventual new curve loaded into the JVC. Don't forget to enable the DI again when you're done.

I ended up with bm=700 and bb=0.018 to hit the correct levels in RM's clips. The rest of the variables are the same as what others (Manni, CJ, Zombie's example) are using. Manni did say that bm value should be lowered if your nits aren't 135. Looks like CJ went even lower than I did at 600 and 500. Trying new settings is easy. I basically ran the Brightness clipping slide and used the bb and Pw options to change the Black Brightness value and write the gamma to the JVC. The thing is that you're still eye-balling where the flashing level is best for your setup. Looks like most folks end up near 0.20 for bb. I needed a lower value in order to zero out the JVC.

I may follow CJ and lower bm again, but what I settled with so far looked really good with The Martian tonight. The tool saves a file named jvc_gamma_written-Custom3.conf (assuming Custom3 is the gamma you're using) which contains the variables and 256 points used.

Thanks bud this is great! Tom is coming over Sat w/ his bad boy (he suggested we DOUBLE stack the PJ's! ), so we can play with Arve's Too... uh... "utility" and this should help us greatly!!

Thanks to the Zombie of Death too!
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post #22492 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 09:18 AM
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@Manni01 ,

I'm about to jump on the Linker bandwagon...should I have any worries about doing so? I really need something that's "set and forget" without any issues, because my projector is the main TV in the house that my wife watches when I'm on business trips and the last thing I need is a technical support call while I'm at a business dinner!
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post #22493 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
Yeah, I now see Craig was answering a question regarding the RS-4500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post
That beast has 3000 lumens! He is on a different playground.
@Craig Peer is like the kids from Beverly Hills who want to hang out in the slums of LA in order to be cool and have street cred. That's why he's still hanging with us and our lowly lamp-based projectors.

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post #22494 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Hopefully Javs will confirm this soon, I trust his eyes . I also trust Zombie10K, Kris, Dave, Atabea, Wookii, Claw and many others, and I don't think we'd all agree if there was nothing to gain. I would also trust Stranger89, but for some reason he's happy with his manual curve and hasn't drunk the Arve potion yet... Maybe he struck gold right away, in which case he was very lucky .
I might just not be as observant/picky too. I played around with Arve WIP tool last night, so I've actually got a curve loaded from that right now. The multiplier really doesn't make much difference in the overall apparent brightness of the image.

What I spent the most time on last night was a custom gamma to match the BT.1886 curve, need more time to live with both of these, but seems overall positive.
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post #22495 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

But SDR BT2020 is so 2016...
i'm adding that to my signature... classic! Everyone was so excited for the Oppo SDR and now it's old old news


re: HDR calibration for the 4500 - for 35K I'd be trying wring every last ounce of performance out possible. It's very likely the custom curves will provide an advantage vs. the OOTB settings.

Any calibrator tuning the JVC's is going to have get familiar with this workflow to provide maximum value to the end user.


Dave, I haven't had any issues with the linker other than a few extra seconds for sync. zero lockups
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post #22496 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I've made two curves, one resolving down to level 68 (black = 0 nits = level 64) and one resolving down to level 81 (black = 0.005nits = level 77).

When displaying a black screen in Lucy (mastered to 0.005nits), this led to a visibly improved black floor, as expected.

When displaying a low APL scene in Hitman (mastered to 0nits), I couldn't see any crush with curve resolving "only" to 77, and switching to the "proper" curve didn't lead to any visible improvement in shadow detail.

While I was doing these kind of comparisons, I also created a curve hard clipping at 1200nits to see if I would gain anything, and I didn't.

So as far as I'm concerned, my new "universal" curve resolves down to level 81 (or 1.5%) with black at level 77 (0.005nits). It resolves up to 4000nits.
Apologies for my ignorance but I'm trying to piece together enough information to come up with a good 2 or 3 curves to load in. I've gone through quite a bit of your posts but am having trouble peice together all the relevant information to get a full set of values.

What are the full set of values for the curves your using now?

Also is there an index somewhere of the groups of differently mastered UHD's so I know which group to set the correct Gamma to?

FWIW, I'm projecting on a 136" 2.35:1 screen from 15' in a pitch black room, so I'm excited to see some improvement.
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post #22497 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
@Manni01 ,

I'm about to jump on the Linker bandwagon...should I have any worries about doing so? I really need something that's "set and forget" without any issues, because my projector is the main TV in the house that my wife watches when I'm on business trips and the last thing I need is a technical support call while I'm at a business dinner!
Mine showed up yesterday too Dave so please report back your findings (I plan on installing between my Oppo & Denon 7200WA)!


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post #22498 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
https://github.com/arvehj/jvcprojectortools/tree/wip

load the menu.py, you will see the screen below.

first action is lp and then 2 to load the default HDR curve.

ga will bring up the configuration page




set the bw to 100, bm to 800 and also adjust the bb as well resolving down to level 81 (black = 0.005nits = level 77). My # may not be your # in this example, check to be sure as this appears to vary between units.



Pw will prompt to write the file to the projector.
This post helped me a LOT - thank you

I'm not even editing out the pics, cos its invaluable info !
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post #22499 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Oh, THAT (first) post. . I thought you were talking about another one, which didn't cover the background of "why". I get it now. Side note - your links (not just these but other times too) sometimes have an extra "]" in them, not sure what causes that.

Perhaps it's because my light output is so much lower than yours and perhaps it may also be due to my bat cave or low screen gain, but in my setup, with 0 for black brightness and 0 for brightness in the JVC and panny, I see flashing bars for everything except 68 and 64. When I say I need to raise black brightness a hair, that is to get bar 68 to flash. Just to put the amount of headroom into perspective between this point and the higher clipping point of 77 you are talking about... I have to lower the JVC brightness control to -3 in order to purposely "crush" things so that the lowest blinking bar is 81 (I know not to use the brightness control to do this - I'm just making the point of how far away that point is from my true black floor with my setup - it does not sound like that's the case for you).

So in my case, in order to purposely crush things so that 77 is my black floor, I would need to use a NEGATIVE value for black brightness. I'm not sure the tool will allow that, or if it does, whether the algorithms would handle that and compensate correctly. But I'll give it a try tonight and do the testing you've requested on Lucy and Hitman and some 4000 nit titles. If the bb param doesn't appear to work right with a negative number, then I'll "force" it by adjusting the brightness control instead.

Besides the fade to blacks, are there any other good scenes in Lucy to look for black levels that are too raised? One thing that bother me in this title is there appears to be crush some scenes. For instance the guy who first greets Lucy at the hotel behind the counter - his black blazer - you can't really see the lapels - just blends in with the jacket. Is that crushed in the source?
Well, you had QUOTED that post, so I was only referring to the post you had quoted If you were not looking at it, it makes sense.

Re settings, do you have brightness and contrast set to 0 in both the JVC and the Panny? They interract on each other, so if you adjust contrast it will have an effect on the low end, and vice-versa.

If you need to raise bb a hair to get 68 to blink, then I'll leave Arve reply because I have no idea if his tool accepts a negative bb.

Re Lucy, there is no black crush that I can see. The lapels are there in the content, but it's very subtle so depending on the angle the blend or not. I attach an overexposed picture to show that it's there (at least on the right side). If you use any other gamma (such as normal/2.2) you'll see the content definitely doesn't crush black, at least in this instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
@Manni01 - A few weeks ago we talked about whether there would be any advantage in my case to have a dedicated curve for 1000 nit titles that does a hard clip at 1200 instead of 4000. IIRC you didn't think that would buy me anything. However after some experimentation last night, it does seem there is a big advantage to this in my case. I wanted to explain what I observed and see if this makes sense or if you think something is wrong...

To date, almost all my experimentation with custom HDR has been with Pan, a 4000 nit title. I used the bright sky scenes to set the clipping point for contrast and then told Arve's tool to fix the curve based on that, which works great. To confirm, when I watch this scene there is no crush in the brightest parts of the sky with contrast at 0. If I lower contrast, there is no change in detail, which tells me that the contrast is not set to high. And if I raise contrast, I start to see some crush. Together, this tells me that my HDR curve is set perfectly to the point where its as bright as possible without introducing any crush.

Now in Lucy at 1000 nits with this same curve, when I checked very bright scenes that would show crush if there was any, I also confirmed there was no crush as I lowered contrast from 0 and no crush was revealed. HOWEVER, when I raised contrast about 0, I was surprised to see I had the headroom to go up to +5 before it started to crush (unlike with Pan where contrast 0 was as high as it could go without crushing). So I then told Arve's tool to readjust my curve based on contrast +5, and it did, raising the soft clip point in the process. The result is a curve that is nicely brighter and without clipping.

Does this make sense to you - that in my case I could have one curve for 1000 nit titles and another for 4000 nit titles, and be able to take advantage of this extra headroom in the 1000 nit titles for a brighter curve without any of the downsides from white crush? Arve's tool certainly seemed like it created a more optimal curve when I gave it this additional +5 contrast to work with in readjusting the curve, and in watching content, I haven't noticed any downside - just a more vivid picture.

Curious what @arve thinks of this as well.
In Lucy, there is no point checking the highlights, it clips at 1000nits so unless you hard clip below 1000nits you will never see any clipping in the highlights there. The idea is to check if you get a better black floor resolving down to 81 vs 68, and in titles mastered to 0nits check if you crush shadow detail.

You keep mentioning Pan but I have no idea how much Pan is using because there is no metadata available. We know that the grading monitor was set to 4000nits, but we have no indication regarding the content (both MaxCLL and MaxFALL are at 0). It could, like Salt, be a 4000nits title using only up to 1200nits. So clipping at 1200nits with such a title will not reveal any clipping of the highlights, but that doesn't prove anything regarding your curve.

The reason why I use Mad Max or Batman vs Superman is because we KNOW that content in these titles does go up to 4000nits. Give me the exact timecode of the scene in Pan and I'll try to see where the content clips. I would bet it doesn't go up to 4000nits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
@Manni01 ,

I'm about to jump on the Linker bandwagon...should I have any worries about doing so? I really need something that's "set and forget" without any issues, because my projector is the main TV in the house that my wife watches when I'm on business trips and the last thing I need is a technical support call while I'm at a business dinner!
No downside except slightly longer sync for some, but I don't experience this if I disable the autoswitch feature and select the input port manually (I use the bottom one). The only thing I had to do was force the Panny to output 4K instead of leaving it to Auto, so that might be a problem if you want to switch between a 4K and a 1080p display with your AVR. I would check with HD Fury but I think you would have a return period if you hit a non solvable issue. For me there is no way back, it's linker all the way and I never disable the DI (Auto 2), even with the iris fully open.
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post #22500 of 31900 Old 03-10-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AidenL View Post
Quick question regarding the Auto selection (Effective 335 if not using the WIP branch) , is it just a matter of leaving that as default?


I have everything else sussed out
Yes
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