Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 790 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23671 of 31987 Old 04-07-2017, 09:58 AM
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Ok I searched and could not find an answer and this may be a really stupid question, but when following @lovingdvd 's amazing detailed guide to create a custom curve, and if I use the fury road uhd disc as reference, do I ...(I have the jvc rs600 and oppo 203)

- need to ensure that my linker is set to enable HDR?
or
- should I just pull the linker out of the chain until my custom gamma is set and saved to the JVC?

Thanks
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post #23672 of 31987 Old 04-07-2017, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Leafs2017 View Post
Ok I searched and could not find an answer and this may be a really stupid question, but when following @lovingdvd 's amazing detailed guide to create a custom curve, and if I use the fury road uhd disc as reference, do I ...(I have the jvc rs600 and oppo 203)

- need to ensure that my linker is set to enable HDR?
or
- should I just pull the linker out of the chain until my custom gamma is set and saved to the JVC?

Thanks
"Leafs" as in Toronto Maple Leafs?
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post #23673 of 31987 Old 04-07-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs2017 View Post
Ok I searched and could not find an answer and this may be a really stupid question, but when following @lovingdvd 's amazing detailed guide to create a custom curve, and if I use the fury road uhd disc as reference, do I ...(I have the jvc rs600 and oppo 203)

- need to ensure that my linker is set to enable HDR?
or
- should I just pull the linker out of the chain until my custom gamma is set and saved to the JVC?

Thanks
Without the Linker, you will have to keep checking that the JVC has not made Gamma D active if you are using the contrast method described by lovingdvd.

With the Linker:

- Configure it to Sink EDID, Custom EDID 2, or Custom EDID 8 so that the Oppo can determine that it can send HDR.
- On the GUI's HDR/AVI tab, mark the checkbox labeled Disable HDR to have the Linker remove the HDR metadata flag so the JVC does not keep switching to Gamma D.
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post #23674 of 31987 Old 04-07-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
"Leafs" as in Toronto Maple Leafs?
Where can i find this guide ?

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post #23675 of 31987 Old 04-07-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
"Leafs" as in Toronto Maple Leafs?
Yep!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Where can i find this guide ?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post51467921
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post #23676 of 31987 Old 04-08-2017, 07:21 AM
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I've slightly updated my 800 curve (130nits peakY).

I've noticed that having brightness set to 0 in the Panny does raise the black floor with some titles. I'm not talking about poorly mastered titles with raised black levels such as Divergent or Insurgent, which need brightness set to -8 in the JVC to display vaguely correct levels, but rather titles like Oblivion, which don't always allow the DI to fully close down, even on long fade to blacks, such as at the end of chapter 11. I had to set the brightness in the Panny to -2 to allow the DI to close fully. I didn't really have to change my bbo value after doing so, weirdly enough, but at least I could get a proper fade to black. I'm not sure if something is wrong in the levels in Oblivion, but as it's not the only title where I couldn't get the DI to fully close on fade to black, I've decided to experiment that way. I couldn't see any loss of detail near black in other titles doing so, but I haven't done extensive tests.

I've also updated my se value. I had raised it to 0.80 to optimise 1000-1100nits titles, but I wasn't happy with the amount of clipping I got near 4000nits. So I've lowered se to 0.25.

This is because I don't want to lose any detail with any titles, even if that means a bit less on/off and brightness with 1000-1100 titles.

If anyone is interested I'll post all the other parameters once I've done a bit more testing.
Do you have this revision? Can I load it with the JVC Auto Cal?
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post #23677 of 31987 Old 04-08-2017, 08:24 AM
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About to have my new RS600 calibrated. Is there a "list" of items specific to the RS600 to make sure they are addressed by the calibrator in addition to the standard calibration items covered for all projectors?

Thanks!

Cheers,
Ray
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post #23678 of 31987 Old 04-08-2017, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996911 View Post
About to have my new RS600 calibrated. Is there a "list" of items specific to the RS600 to make sure they are addressed by the calibrator in addition to the standard calibration items covered for all projectors?

Thanks!
Does your calibrator know anything about custom gamma curves for HDR?
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post #23679 of 31987 Old 04-08-2017, 09:24 AM
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Mike, sorry, I should have specified in my post I don't have a calibrator yet. I was just looking for info on what I need to make sure the calibrator does what is needed for the RS600. Basically, when I "interview" calibrators, I need to know what to look for before I hire when I ask what all they will do for the RS600 calibration.

Cheers,
Ray
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post #23680 of 31987 Old 04-08-2017, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996911 View Post
Mike, sorry, I should have specified in my post I don't have a calibrator yet. I was just looking for info on what I need to make sure the calibrator does what is needed for the RS600. Basically, when I "interview" calibrators, I need to know what to look for before I hire when I ask what all they will do for the RS600 calibration.
2D calibration, 3D calibration through the glasses and HDR calibration by use of custom curve.
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post #23681 of 31987 Old 04-08-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD MAN View Post
Do you have this revision? Can I load it with the JVC Auto Cal?
I've been away for a week but I plan to do more watching next week. I'll try to release a low-res of the updated curve along with the parameters if I like the results.
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post #23682 of 31987 Old 04-09-2017, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I've been away for a week but I plan to do more watching next week. I'll try to release a low-res of the updated curve along with the parameters if I like the results.
Sounds Good!!

Thanks
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post #23683 of 31987 Old 04-09-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996911 View Post
Mike, sorry, I should have specified in my post I don't have a calibrator yet. I was just looking for info on what I need to make sure the calibrator does what is needed for the RS600. Basically, when I "interview" calibrators, I need to know what to look for before I hire when I ask what all they will do for the RS600 calibration.
Contact Chad B and he'll know exactly what to do.
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post #23684 of 31987 Old 04-09-2017, 09:36 AM
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@krichter1 - this is months late but we finally watched the new Ghostbusters in 3D last night. It was pretty funny and had great 3D/ special effects / sound. I was hoping to see a cameo of Rick Moranis.

tons of low APL scenes that looked great on the JVC, I just did a new 3D cal behind the glasses and the color looked very good as well. definitely worth checking out if folks haven't seen it yet.
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post #23685 of 31987 Old 04-09-2017, 04:45 PM
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Contact Chad B and he'll know exactly what to do.
Thank you. Will do!
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Cheers,
Ray
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post #23686 of 31987 Old 04-09-2017, 06:16 PM
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@krichter1 - this is months late but we finally watched the new Ghostbusters in 3D last night. It was pretty funny and had great 3D/ special effects / sound. I was hoping to see a cameo of Rick Moranis.

tons of low APL scenes that looked great on the JVC, I just did a new 3D cal behind the glasses and the color looked very good as well. definitely worth checking out if folks haven't seen it yet.
Nice! Just LOVE how those plasma blaster streams JUMP off the screen especially in 4K where the specular highlights are blinding (and very creative jumping over the letter boxing too... FUN)!
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post #23687 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 10:29 AM
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Would it be wrong to create a list of traveling pro ISF calibrators known to have thorough RS500/600 experience (and top shelf results)?
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post #23688 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 10:43 AM
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Lightbulb Calibration grid of information

Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
Would it be wrong to create a list of traveling pro ISF calibrators known to have thorough RS500/600 experience (and top shelf results)?
Sounds good.
Perhaps in collaboration with another forum listing on calibrators.
Consider a table
- name/location/contact info
- location travel (local, regional, anywhere)
- Certified (eg...)
- familiar with JVC RS500 etc and HDR stripping, DI, et
- familiar with Lumagen Radiance integration
- familiar with A-lens, masking, 3D calibration, etc...


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post #23689 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
Would it be wrong to create a list of traveling pro ISF calibrators known to have thorough RS500/600 experience (and top shelf results)?
That can be very helpful to me, especially since I'm nearly right over the NJ border and tried to get Chad B when he was on his NJ area tour but I then received a message from his side saying he couldn't make it 'cause he already had bookings in the NJ area.
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post #23690 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 01:17 PM
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X970/RS620 ANSI Contrast?

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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
12/13 Seconds consistently for 4k/60p 4:4:4 max 18gbps signals...

Couple seconds faster for vanilla 1080p (Which I never use).

I would say its consistently about 6 seconds quicker on average.
I couldn't find this info, so I wonder if you know whether there is any improvement in ANSI contrast. I think the X750/950-RS500/600 have decent ANSI contrast when compared to LCD projectors, but I still would like improvement.

When I compared my unit with the Sony 4K 665, calibrated, both in a controlled environment, watching the same clip, the X750 absolutely destroyed the Sony in low APL scenes. And I couldn't see any difference in resolution between the two sitting about 12 feet away from a 120+" screen.

But where the Sony to my surprise did better was in ANSI contrast. Now this could be because shadow detail came across so easily on the Sony; I don't know. (The Sony also showed slightly smoother motion handling.) Improving ANSI contrast would be huge icing on the cake.
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post #23691 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I couldn't find this info, so I wonder if you know whether there is any improvement in ANSI contrast. I think the X750/950-RS500/600 have decent ANSI contrast when compared to LCD projectors, but I still would like improvement.

When I compared my unit with the Sony 4K 665, calibrated, both in a controlled environment, watching the same clip, the X750 absolutely destroyed the Sony in low APL scenes. And I couldn't see any difference in resolution between the two sitting about 12 feet away from a 120+" screen.

But where the Sony to my surprise did better was in ANSI contrast. Now this could be because shadow detail came across so easily on the Sony; I don't know. (The Sony also showed slightly smoother motion handling.) Improving ANSI contrast would be huge icing on the cake.
The ANSI on the 420/520/620 should be the same as on the 400/500/600.
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post #23692 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The ANSI on the 420/520/620 should be the same as on the 400/500/600.
I hope JVC improves on it.
But thanks for letting me know.
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post #23693 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I couldn't find this info, so I wonder if you know whether there is any improvement in ANSI contrast. I think the X750/950-RS500/600 have decent ANSI contrast when compared to LCD projectors, but I still would like improvement.

When I compared my unit with the Sony 4K 665, calibrated, both in a controlled environment, watching the same clip, the X750 absolutely destroyed the Sony in low APL scenes. And I couldn't see any difference in resolution between the two sitting about 12 feet away from a 120+" screen.

But where the Sony to my surprise did better was in ANSI contrast. Now this could be because shadow detail came across so easily on the Sony; I don't know. (The Sony also showed slightly smoother motion handling.) Improving ANSI contrast would be huge icing on the cake.
Well the JVC's are around 290 the Sonys are about 450:1 ANSI.

The Epson LS10K has most excellent shadow detail, better than both and that has the lowest ANSI of the three.... I dont think ANSI = shadow detail.

Intrascene contrast is way more important than ANSI imo which is why the JVC so visually destroyed the Sony in very obvious contrast.
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post #23694 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Well the JVC's are around 290 the Sonys are about 450:1 ANSI.

The Epson LS10K has most excellent shadow detail, better than both and that has the lowest ANSI of the three.... I dont think ANSI = shadow detail.

Intrascene contrast is way more important than ANSI imo which is why the JVC so visually destroyed the Sony in very obvious contrast.
I've always considered ANSI as just a worst case Intrascene, but the same thing basically. On-Off vs ANSI is the argument I'm used to. What do you mean by Intrascene vs ANSI?
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post #23695 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 03:17 PM
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Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post
I've always considered ANSI as just a worst case Intrascene, but the same thing basically. On-Off vs ANSI is the argument I'm used to. What do you mean by Intrascene vs ANSI?
You are right, Intrascene contrast in lower apl content is what I should have referred to. The Sony will only pull ahead measurably at about 4% APL which is actually kinda somewhat bright. Below that the JVC is way better and clearly visible.

This actually makes up for a lot of content in films, not just sci-fi.

Such is to say the JVC having really high on/off is not where it ends.

Here is my old X7000 (RS500) at various APL levels... You will see that basically around 2% APL is the best the Sony will do even at zero. And it ramps up from there.

This was my JVC at what I call minimum throw, so, closest possible distance to the screen, not long throw. Not sure if that lines up with Zoom Max as PD's chart below... anyway.

LOW LAMP -15

0% - 112,307:1
1% - 73,000:1
2% - 20,277:1
3% - 7,643:1
4% - 3,518:1

LOW LAMP -0

0% - 22,750:1
1% - 22,377:1
2% - 10,073:1
3% - 4,105:1
4% - 2,363:1


Here is a 520ES measured by Projection Dream, now I dont have the same patterns as them, but it should be somewhat comparable.



Here is a great article from Projection Dream who analysed a bunch of films for APL levels, the results are interesting.

Art of Flight for eg, which is what I would consider a DARN bright movie, only came out to be an average of 32%APL!

http://projectiondream.com/en/movie-...-measurements/



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post #23696 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 03:30 PM
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Would it be wrong to create a list of traveling pro ISF calibrators known to have thorough RS500/600 experience (and top shelf results)?
With the exception of ChadB, I am not aware of any other calibrator that is open-minded enough to even consider creating/importing custom gamma curves for use with HDR. Creating such a list would definitely be useful and may even help owners avoid getting a half-baked calibration. I have yet to find a single calibrator up here in Canada that doesn't think Gamma D is still the best and only option. Thankfully, folks like Arve, Manni, Kris and the other regularly contributing experts have made this situation less of a pressing issue (or even a non-issue) for many of us.
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post #23697 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Well the JVC's are around 290 the Sonys are about 450:1 ANSI.

The Epson LS10K has most excellent shadow detail, better than both and that has the lowest ANSI of the three.... I dont think ANSI = shadow detail.

Intrascene contrast is way more important than ANSI imo which is why the JVC so visually destroyed the Sony in very obvious contrast.
Oh, right...I was wondering why in that I didn't know the 665 was spec'd better at 450:1. Now, for the Epson, I can see that. I remember going from the Benq W7000 to the Epson 5030. While the dark scenes looked better on the 5030, once there was a face with bright light behind the person, it was a disappointment compared to the Benq. I suppose the LS is not too far off?

I have to say, the Sony also looked soft whereas the JVC X750 looked solid, almost like a giant good-quality flat screen, but bigger.

To be fair, the Sony did have advantages other than better ANSI: again, slightly better motion, excellent shadow detail, a pretty clean picture throughout (but oddly, regardless of whether the content had film grain as seen on other dispalys???), and distant text was at times a bit more defined.
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post #23698 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 04:51 PM
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It is hard to judge a projector on a casual viewing because you just never know how well they are actually setup. I've been to a bunch of Sony demos from others and Sony that were not setup as well as they should be, so even when the manufacturer sets it up it can be a mixed bag. When you setup a Sony and JVC correctly the difference between them is VERY slight. The JVC will look better with darker material due to the native contrast, but this is REALLY dark material like AVP and such. With most regular content the difference becomes much more difficult to spot, especially with movies. With sports it will probably be different for motion, but how sensitive one is to motion issues varies. Right now we have fantastic projectors from multiple manufacturers to chose from. For I'd say 95%+ of people, any of them would more than blow them away when setup properly. It is only the SUPER picky videophiles that typically are looking for very specific things that start to really separate them out based on their priorities (contrast, brightness, motion resolution, etc). A lot of casual observers on these forums are hung out to dry with all the nitpicking because it creates a MASSIVE amount of insecurity about a possible purchase, when really I doubt most would notice the differences some obsess about here.
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post #23699 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
It is hard to judge a projector on a casual viewing because you just never know how well they are actually setup. I've been to a bunch of Sony demos from others and Sony that were not setup as well as they should be, so even when the manufacturer sets it up it can be a mixed bag. When you setup a Sony and JVC correctly the difference between them is VERY slight. The JVC will look better with darker material due to the native contrast, but this is REALLY dark material like AVP and such. With most regular content the difference becomes much more difficult to spot, especially with movies. With sports it will probably be different for motion, but how sensitive one is to motion issues varies. Right now we have fantastic projectors from multiple manufacturers to chose from. For I'd say 95%+ of people, any of them would more than blow them away when setup properly. It is only the SUPER picky videophiles that typically are looking for very specific things that start to really separate them out based on their priorities (contrast, brightness, motion resolution, etc). A lot of casual observers on these forums are hung out to dry with all the nitpicking because it creates a MASSIVE amount of insecurity about a possible purchase, when really I doubt most would notice the differences some obsess about here.
What a great summation.

We are really fortunate to have a lot of great products for home viewing and listening on the current market. You can't go a day without someone mentioning their home movie experience rivals or bests when they experience in a commercial cinema.

We are fortunate in KC to have a number of great commercial theaters that exceed the home experience....but I still very much appreciate (almost on a daily basis) my home theater set up (which includes my RS500).

Ron
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post #23700 of 31987 Old 04-10-2017, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
When you setup a Sony and JVC correctly the difference between them is VERY slight. The JVC will look better with darker material due to the native contrast, but this is REALLY dark material like AVP and such. With most regular content the difference becomes much more difficult to spot, especially with movies. With sports it will probably be different for motion, but how sensitive one is to motion issues varies. Right now we have fantastic projectors from multiple manufacturers to chose from. For I'd say 95%+ of people, any of them would more than blow them away when setup properly.
Nicely said. I'm not too sensitive to motion, so then when I factor in price, the choice for me becomes as clear as the image on my JVC.
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