Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 831 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24901 of 31987 Old 06-12-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vjforum View Post
So, looking at these screenshots: What are you gaining by watching UHD vs bluray? To me the bluray looks way better than the UHD. Am I missing something? Surely its not 4k resolution as one can't tell the difference between 4k and 1080 for most part on our JVC. Or is the camera taking the photograph able to capture darkness of the image but not the WCG?
Welcome to the club.

The shortest answer you will receive is: "Bright ≠ Better"

Long answer will be about HDR, WCG, black levels and camera limitations.
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post #24902 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by vjforum View Post
So, looking at these screenshots: What are you gaining by watching UHD vs bluray? To me the bluray looks way better than the UHD. Am I missing something? Surely its not 4k resolution as one can't tell the difference between 4k and 1080 for most part on our JVC. Or is the camera taking the photograph able to capture darkness of the image but not the WCG?
You are looking at a SDR, limited resolution, limited color photo, on a limited display device -- of an HDR/WCG/4k image.

It's like listening to a subwoofer over a telephone line. You can tell it is playing something, but it will never shake the seat you are sitting in.

Or it's like looking at a black-and-white photo of a Van Gough painting: You can appreciate some of the texture and composition, but a whole level of the creation is lost in translation.

That said, it is not as extreme as these metaphors, and if one doesn't have the tools and skills to set up the reproduction correctly, it will actually look WORSE than a correct SDR image.

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post #24903 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 08:09 AM
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SO... changing this current subject pâté...

We went to see Wonder Woman over the weekend at one of the AMC Dolby Cinemas featuring DolbyVision, ATMOS sound and powered buttkicker recliners (very cool that all the speakers cones were backlit!), and thought it was one of the best movie experiences I have had commercially (sans our theaters of course! ). The DV PQ was very good and even at the huge screen size the "HDR" quality was evident w/ some of the best blacks I've seen to date (again especially considering the huge screen size). Well worth the $3 premium over a normal ticket IMO! Oh yeah... the movie itself was excellent too (Gal Gadot (yummy!), and Chris Pine's chemistry was really great!)!
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post #24904 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 08:47 AM
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Glad you had a good Dolby Cinema experience. I saw it that way, too, at a local AMC Dolby Cinema theater -- and found the elevated black levels, even with DV, annoying. (I see Scott noted this in his review here on AVS too, so I guess it is a mastering issue and not the theater's fault.)

The fact that it was shown letterboxed on a 16:9 screen (come on, where's the masking?) was very disappointing. Just feels cheap and lazy -- and in this case, the unmasked screen area was a lot darker than the darkest blacks in the projected image area, which just underscored the elevated black level issues.

And while the seats are good -- the ones in your photo look like the same ones in our local venue -- they are actually not as good as the recliners used in our local Cinemark Century theater.

(And if we are really picking nits, the selection of beers on tap is better at Cinemark versus AMC, too, imo!)

That said, there were some good spectral highlights, and the film itself is an above average super hero movie, and it was great to finally see WW get her due. I thought the origin story and her character arc were handled very well. (I'll refrain from further comments to avoid spoilers except to say I thought capt kirk's character was handled very well, too.)
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post #24905 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Yeah, Apes is definitely my darkest disc. Even 3D is brighter than that UHD disc on my system. Was that ST:B BD shot taken with the same settings as the UHD shot: 100, 1.3s, f/3.5?
Same settings.

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I bet if you reduced the exposure of the camera to make the BD image look like the UHD at 1.3s then retook that UHD with the same lower exposure, it'd look curiously like images I've previously posted.
What's the point of that? That would not be representative of how either look in my HT.

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I really appreciate the pics, thanks again. Feel free to try that exposure adjustment I mentioned above, I'd think you'd be surprised with the results.
No thanks, it wouldn't prove anything other than incorrect exposure looks dark or something. The whole point of the original shot was to take a photo that was representative of what I see in my HT. The first half of that movie is not "bright" but it's entirely watchable with a proper calibration. The second photo was just to prove that it's not dramatically darker than SDR, ie that I didn't crank the exposure way up to make up for a really dim image.

Which brings us back to the original point. You need to do a calibration, at least a run of gamma measurements to validate your current setup. Movies vary in brightness, some are darker, dimmer than others, but you should not need completely different curves for different movies. I haven't run into any UHD HDR movies that are mastered so badly that they don't look good with my standard curve.

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Originally Posted by vjforum View Post
So, looking at these screenshots: What are you gaining by watching UHD vs bluray? To me the bluray looks way better than the UHD. Am I missing something? Surely its not 4k resolution as one can't tell the difference between 4k and 1080 for most part on our JVC. Or is the camera taking the photograph able to capture darkness of the image but not the WCG?
It's a screenshot, you really can't judge anything from a screenshot. In person, you don't notice the absolute brightness difference at all, our eyes quickly adjust to the different overall brightness. So those two images, factoring in the time it takes to switch discs, sync, and navigate to the right frame again, look fundamentally the same in person, because our eyes adjust. Beyond that, you get brighter highlights, more vivid colors, a bit cleaner image due to the 4K resolution an better compression.

Nope, it's not night and day different, but I'll take what I can get. Though on the flip side, I could probably stand to tweak my curve from 12.5 ref white to 15 ref white.
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post #24906 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 01:03 PM
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Same settings.
I appreciate you taking the photos as it established a baseline I could replicate and the BD photo also provided even more insight. I will look into calibration next. I now have all the information I need regarding where my expectations should be with UHD. Calibration will likely improve them.
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post #24907 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Same settings.



What's the point of that? That would not be representative of how either look in my HT.



No thanks, it wouldn't prove anything other than incorrect exposure looks dark or something. The whole point of the original shot was to take a photo that was representative of what I see in my HT. The first half of that movie is not "bright" but it's entirely watchable with a proper calibration. The second photo was just to prove that it's not dramatically darker than SDR, ie that I didn't crank the exposure way up to make up for a really dim image.

Which brings us back to the original point. You need to do a calibration, at least a run of gamma measurements to validate your current setup. Movies vary in brightness, some are darker, dimmer than others, but you should not need completely different curves for different movies. I haven't run into any UHD HDR movies that are mastered so badly that they don't look good with my standard curve.



It's a screenshot, you really can't judge anything from a screenshot. In person, you don't notice the absolute brightness difference at all, our eyes quickly adjust to the different overall brightness. So those two images, factoring in the time it takes to switch discs, sync, and navigate to the right frame again, look fundamentally the same in person, because our eyes adjust. Beyond that, you get brighter highlights, more vivid colors, a bit cleaner image due to the 4K resolution an better compression.

Nope, it's not night and day different, but I'll take what I can get. Though on the flip side, I could probably stand to tweak my curve from 12.5 ref white to 15 ref white.
Just curious why u want to raise your ref white to 15. That would lower your ratio which would make your vid a bit brighter...is that what u r attempting to do? Thanks

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post #24908 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 02:59 PM
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Welcome to the club.
Maybe HDR isn't for you. And that's okay.

You know what, I recently had calibrations performed, one for HD, one for UHD SDR, and one for UHD HDR. The UHD SDR now looks the best of the three! It uses gamma "C" in combination with the UB900 set to C-3 and B+2, with all other player settings at default. The brightness, shadow detail, colors, and deep blacks look amazing!
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post #24909 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I appreciate you taking the photos as it established a baseline I could replicate and the BD photo also provided even more insight. I will look into calibration next. I now have all the information I need regarding where my expectations should be with UHD. Calibration will likely improve them.
What you have to understand though, is that there's currently no "science" to calibrating HDR, specifically the reference white (in terms of Arve's tool). The brightness I came up with in my calibration is just that, mine, and isn't necessarily representative of what you should expect, beyond that I don't need, and you shouldn't expect to need drastically different curves for different movies.

The curve I came up with is one I chose with compromises I chose to make, based on my perception of peak white and the rest of my setup's parameters. You may well prefer a brighter curve than I made, and that's fine.

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Just curious why u want to raise your ref white to 15. That would lower your ratio which would make your vid a bit brighter...is that what u r attempting to do? Thanks
Just to try it and see what I think. I'll probably just stick with 12.5 because I think I settled on that by playing with things an found that that wasn't too dim. Of course I also want to try a High Lamp curve too and see how I like that too. I haven't spent near the time Javs or Manni or the others have spent evaluating curves, so I'd kind of like to experiment a bit more and see what I think.

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Maybe HDR isn't for you. And that's okay.
But that's not really the issue here. It's key to remember two important facts. First and foremost, UHD Blu-ray is HDR, you can't just "strip" the HDR from it, that means we have two choices, calibrate the display to handle a native HDR signal correctly (ie custom "gamma" curves), or have an upstream device convert to "SDR" first (Panasonic, Oppo, Lumagen). Secondly, we're not really seeing HDR on our projectors, our peak brightness isn't even at the SDR levels, let alone HDR, so really none of us are getting HDR.

But will come back to the key point, and that's with proper calibration, 1) a universal (across movies) calibration is definitely possible, and 2) whether you calibrate HDR or have an upstream device convert to SDR should not result in a fundamentally different result. The primary difference is in the control over how the clipping and highlight roll-off is done.

Quote:
You know what, I recently had calibrations performed, one for HD, one for UHD SDR, and one for UHD HDR. The UHD SDR now looks the best of the three! It uses gamma "C" in combination with the UB900 set to C-3 and B+2, with all other player settings at default. The brightness, shadow detail, colors, and deep blacks look amazing!
There certainly are a lot of possible ways to handle HDR these days.
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post #24910 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 06:57 PM
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John Wick Chapter 2 absolute fire! Best UHD HDR I have had in my theater. Blacks were the best I have seen. My Chad B gamma was perfect for this 1000 nit movie.
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post #24911 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 08:53 PM
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John Wick Chapter 2 absolute fire! Best UHD HDR I have had in my theater. Blacks were the best I have seen. My Chad B gamma was perfect for this 1000 nit movie.
The mirror room sequence is INSANE!
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post #24912 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 09:02 PM
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The mirror room sequence is INSANE!
Damn - hurry up Amazon !
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post #24913 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 10:06 PM
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Damn - hurry up Amazon !
I agree it was Very good...

The BAD news?! . . . I turned off the Oppo after JW2... switched to my Sony BD changer and JVC back down to Rec709 low lamp and after a few minutes... LOUD POP! . . . Blinking Orange Lamp!

Correct to assume that means my lamp BLEW (GD that was loud!)??


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post #24914 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 11:02 PM
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John Wick Chapter 2 absolute fire! Best UHD HDR I have had in my theater. Blacks were the best I have seen. My Chad B gamma was perfect for this 1000 nit movie.
+1 Absolutely stunning UHD picture, and the sound was some of the best!
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post #24915 of 31987 Old 06-13-2017, 11:05 PM
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I agree it was Very good...

The BAD news?! . . . I turned off the Oppo after JW2... switched to my Sony BD changer and JVC back down to Rec709 low lamp and after a few minutes... LOUD POP! . . . Blinking Orange Lamp!

Correct to assume that means my lamp BLEW (GD that was loud!)??
That stinks and sorry to hear that. I hope you at least got some long hours of use on that lamp before it gave up the ghost?
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post #24916 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I agree it was Very good...

The BAD news?! . . . I turned off the Oppo after JW2... switched to my Sony BD changer and JVC back down to Rec709 low lamp and after a few minutes... LOUD POP! . . . Blinking Orange Lamp!

Correct to assume that means my lamp BLEW (GD that was loud!)??


How many hours if I may ask?

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post #24917 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I agree it was Very good...

The BAD news?! . . . I turned off the Oppo after JW2... switched to my Sony BD changer and JVC back down to Rec709 low lamp and after a few minutes... LOUD POP! . . . Blinking Orange Lamp!

Correct to assume that means my lamp BLEW (GD that was loud!)??


I've never had a lamp go on me so, not sure what it sounds like. Was it louder than the color filter snapping into place? Hopefully no damage or glass shards inside the projector. Good thing you have that spare bulb, it's going to be bright as the sun again.
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post #24918 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
I've never had a lamp go on me so, not sure what it sounds like. Was it louder than the color filter snapping into place? Hopefully no damage or glass shards inside the projector. Good thing you have that spare bulb, it's going to be bright as the sun again.
Yes, much louder.
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post #24919 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I agree it was Very good...

The BAD news?! . . . I turned off the Oppo after JW2... switched to my Sony BD changer and JVC back down to Rec709 low lamp and after a few minutes... LOUD POP! . . . Blinking Orange Lamp!

Correct to assume that means my lamp BLEW (GD that was loud!)??


oh goodness...that doesnt sound good... do you have spare ? is it just matter of pulling out popping a new one in. is it worth having a peep to check the lamp or is it to the shop visit in these cases ?
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Originally Posted by tyler webb View Post
John Wick Chapter 2 absolute fire! Best UHD HDR I have had in my theater. Blacks were the best I have seen. My Chad B gamma was perfect for this 1000 nit movie.
amazon said yesterday mine has shipped so cant wait to watch

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post #24921 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 05:47 AM
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This is a +15 curve which is what is needed to make ST:Beyond/Patriots Day/DawnApes even worth watching. It blows out the skies a bit but its seriously dark with out it. (I don't think this looks good, but its what is necessary to make overall brightness even remotely similar to what Mad Max looks like with the -5 auto curve above, no hyperbole, 3D is brighter than ST:Beyond 4K with a -5 auto or Arve 100 curve):
I had a chance to check out Patriots Day last night, there is definitely something not right with the grading of this title, especially when comparing it to the majority of the other titles I have here. I also picked up one of the 2 apes movies, I believe you said both were dark. I picked up the most recent one. Only 1 because I know I will much prefer the 3D version over the UHD but want to see if it's as dark as PD.

on this topic I decided to fire up the Samsung 8500, firmware update and a quick A/B between the Samsung and UB900. long story short I should have boat anchored the Samsung a long time ago. Colors are still overcooked in HDR and overall sluggish performance vs the Panasonic.

I recommend keeping the UB900 and getting rid of the Samsung. All the calibration in the world isn't going to help this player. you may as well start with a good known baseline player before a full calibration.
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post #24922 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 06:26 AM
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OK so I am about to distill a ton of research and experimentation into a very simple process you can follow to create your own custom curve. I am not going to go into the details of where to get the tools and setting them up - that's been covered elsewhere. Also this is not meant to be "all encompassing" so you may need to do more research to understand some of what I'm talking about here. Rather, the goal is to give you the quick steps to get your own curve up and running. So here ya go:

[Note that much of this is from memory - I need to revisit this and double check a few things, so for now consider this a draft]

1. Start with the latest version of Arve's tool from the wip branch.

2. Select a custom gamma slot, such as Custom 1, in the JVC. Change the correction value to "Import"

3. Set your contrast and brightness to 0 in the JVC and in your sources such as Panasonic UB900. This assumes Standard HDMI type.

4. Run Arve's tool menu.py.

5. Select lp, then option 2. This loads a default HDR curve into the tool.

6. Make sure your source is outputting HDR and not SDR BT2020.

7. Bring up a HDR image you want to test with. I use the "sky scene" in Pan at 18:55. However this scene only resolves up to 2750 nits. Although this is a good choice for those with large screens and low peak white nits (below 100, I only have about 45), if you have above 100 nits you'll be better off using a scene that resolves up to 4000 nits. Mad Max is often mentioned for this. You can find examples of scenes in a picture comparison thread several pages back. Note that I recommend using an actual scene (paused) from a HDR movie for this and not a white clipping pattern. The reason is because the clipping pattern can still show bars but crush in between. The best way to determine this is therefore with an actual scene. Certainly you can try it with a clipping pattern if you'd like to compare the results to doing the same approach with a scene from a movie, but if you only want to do it once, use a movie scene not a pattern for this.

8. Enter ga in the tool (gamma adjust). This will bring up a new menu.

9. Use option 3 "tune with contrast". This will load the tool's default HDR curve into the JVC and prepare itself for your contrast control adjustment (see next step).

10. Your image will be highly crushed in this initial state. See attached pan-sky-initial image. Lower contrast to the point where the crush is gone. See pan-sky-contrast-fully-tuned image - this is how mine looks once fully adjusted for no crush. Just keep dropping it until you feel that no image detail is being lost due to "bloom". When you find that point, raise contrast again a click or two and confirm that the blooming starts, lower it again - the point is toe just confirm that you have the right point. In my setup I think I had to drop contrast to around -18 or -20.

11. When you are done adjusting contrast, press Enter on Arve's tool (which is waiting for you to do so to tell it you're done adjusting contrast). This is where the magic happens... It will readjust your curve based on the brightness you need, send the new curve to the pj, and then automatically reset the JVC brightness back to 0 for you.

12. It gives you a chance to repeat this process, which may be necessary to fine tune a click or two. Change contrast a few clicks in either direction. Most likely you will be good now at 0 if you got it right in the first place (step 10). If you adjust contrast, go to step 11 and repeat. If you leave contrast at 0, when you hit return in the tool it'll exit this adjustment phase.

Tip: From early experimentation it seems that you can get extra brightness without as much crushing on 1000 nit master titles. Therefore if you have low nits like me, it may be worthwhile to have two "go to" curves - one for 1000 nit titles and one for 4000 nit titles. So repeat this whole process (all steps here) a 2nd time, but using a 1000 nit title like Lucy. The result will be a brighter curve that may work well on 1000 nit titles.

As a general guide, expect to lower contrast to about -17 to -23 for 4000 nit titles (crushing beyond 2750) and to about -5 to -7 for 1000 nit titles. Let your eyes guide you on the scenes, but that should give you a rough idea if you are in the right ballpark.

Tip When using the contrast control to set the contrast so there is no clipping, you will likely create a picture that looks nice and properly saturated, but is too dim, particularly if you have less than 100 nits to start with. Therefore I recommend doing one curve with contrast set ideally, again, likely you will find that be around -23 to -17. After completing all the steps listed in this guide, repeat it from scratch again, but this time purposely crush some of the scene, perhaps with a contrast setting around -12 to -15. Finish all the steps here again, but save this into another preset. Then repeat everything once again, but with targeting a 1000 nit master and clipping around 1000, which will be around -5 to -7 as mentioned above. Save that into the 3rd slot. Then as you watch movies play around and see which one you will like best. Hint/spoiler alert: You will like the brightest one best. However you will crush some bright scenes as a result. So you'll have to decide what is an acceptable level of tradeoff. By having 3 different curves you can try any of them A/B to pick your favorite. You can even use the 1000 nit target curve for 4000 nit masters (but will crush them quite a bit) and still find it VERY pleasing, if you don't mind the crush.

13. At this point your curve is mainly complete. However this is where manually tweaking can be done. You can try changing the soft clip value (sc) lower or higher, and or changing the se value to control how steep the clip is. I lowered my sc from the auto setting and lower my se from 0.75 to 0.5. This further helped to tame some minor blooming I had in the highlights otherwise. For instance, after my contrast was tuned I still had some pretty heavy blooming in highlights. See pan-hand-highlight-high image. After lowering my sc and se I was able to tame it, without sacrificing much if any overall image brightness. See pan-hand-highlight-medium for the end result. Look at Pan's hand (wrist really) in both of those pics. Notice the bloom is tamed (somewhat) in the medium one. Look at the clouds above his hand in both pics - you can see how the excess bloom is tamed there as well.

Note: You will have to walk a fine line between how much crush you are willing to take for a brighter picture, or put another way, how dim of a picture you are willing to accept to minimize crush. The brighter the picture, not only is there more crush, but the picture begins to desaturate. In these two sky image examples those are at both ends - too high and too low. This picture is rather dim in the low one. So in reality I wind up cheating-up some by introducing some desaturation and some crush, but no where close to what the initial sky looks like. I have a few versions of this saved into different presets so I can change the curve to taste based on the movie.

14. Now it's time to fine tune the Brightness, tho we will not do that with any controls - just with Arve's tool. Leave brightness at 0 in JVC and elsewhere. Don't touch those controls... Bring up Ray's black clipping pattern, the 2nd one with the large bars. Pause it with the bars showing so the clip doesn't end on you while you are working on it, but hit play to help you see what's flashing or not as you make adjustments, then rewind to the beginning of the clip so it doesn't end on you as you work with hit. The idea here is to purposely crush black so that 0.005 nits is the black floor instead of 0. This should provide a lower black floor for content mastered at 0.005 black (about 70% of the content) while also not having any detrimental impact to content mastered at 0 nit black. To do this we target bars 77 and below to not be flashing, and 81 and above to be flashing.

15. Enter the command "bbi 0.005" to set this as your black floor for content. Issue Pw command to write this to the JVC. You will likely find that bar 81 and possibly higher bars are not visible/flashing. In that case use the "bbo" command to add just a touch of brightness, then send to the JVC with Pw command. Try something very small at first, like 0.002. You want to get to the point where you can't see bar 77 but can see bar 81. Keep trying bbo values and Pw until bar 81 shows but bar 77 does not.

16. At this point you are done. Use the command "s filename" to save your curve to your PC. Later you can use "lf filename" to reload your curve back into the tool and write it back to the pj, in case you want to work on it some more (or in case you want to overwrite it temporarily in the pj but then come back to it later).

17. Experiment. Try the same process over, but perhaps crushing your contrast-setting scene a bit more to give you more brightness. And or play with sc or se. Write curves into other custom gamma slots. Then bring up scenes and switch between them in the JVC. You may find that some curves work better for dark vs brighter movies.

Hope this helps!

Edit 3/14/17: Added screenshots and further clarification to steps 9-13.

Edit 3/15/17: Added more details on using bbi and bbo to set the proper black level; added more details on contrast fine tuning and idea of designing curves for 1000 vs 4000 nit titles.

Edit: 3/16/17: Added clarification to say to use a movie scene for the contrast tuning, not a white clipping pattern.

Edit: 3/17/17: Added tip above, for ideas on how to generate curves with different brightness levels to pick from.
Hi, it's my first post here so take it easy on me... :-)
first of all, I have been following this thread closely for the past several month and I'm amaze at the level of knowledge and caring I saw here!

for the last couple of month I was using the pre-defined curves and is pretty happy with the results, but i think it's time I join the big boys and create my own curve!
lovingdvd descriptions are quite good, what I'm missing is recommended scenes to run on.
I have Mad Max, Pacific Rim, Logan, Deadpool, Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk and Plant Earth 2.

Thanks!
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post #24923 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 06:49 AM
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I agree it was Very good...

The BAD news?! . . . I turned off the Oppo after JW2... switched to my Sony BD changer and JVC back down to Rec709 low lamp and after a few minutes... LOUD POP! . . . Blinking Orange Lamp!

Correct to assume that means my lamp BLEW (GD that was loud!)??


Years ago I had an Infocus IN76 that blew a bulb. Thought I was going to have a heart attack!! My condolences, though it sounds like you have a spare ready to roll so good on you!
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post #24924 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 07:11 AM
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Years ago I had an Infocus IN76 that blew a bulb. Thought I was going to have a heart attack!! My condolences, though it sounds like you have a spare ready to roll so good on you!
My IN76 did the same thing; worse yet smoke started billowing from the projector. I had to pull the power cord from the socket to get it to stop.

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post #24925 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 07:34 AM
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I had a chance to check out Patriots Day last night, there is definitely something not right with the grading of this title, especially when comparing it to the majority of the other titles I have here. I also picked up one of the 2 apes movies, I believe you said both were dark. I picked up the most recent one. Only 1 because I know I will much prefer the 3D version over the UHD but want to see if it's as dark as PD.

on this topic I decided to fire up the Samsung 8500, firmware update and a quick A/B between the Samsung and UB900. long story short I should have boat anchored the Samsung a long time ago. Colors are still overcooked in HDR and overall sluggish performance vs the Panasonic.

I recommend keeping the UB900 and getting rid of the Samsung. All the calibration in the world isn't going to help this player. you may as well start with a good known baseline player before a full calibration.
Patriot's Day ( good movie by the way ) can be a bit dark, but certainly watchable. As for the Samsung, it needs to have this done to it -
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post #24926 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 07:37 AM
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Yes, much louder.
From your experience Mike anything more I need to do than just pull & replace (can there be damage inside the light path w/ shards of glass I should be worried about as well?)?

The biggest issue for me is the loss of the B.E.A.-utiful calibration Chad performed for the bulb (~1320 hours). I'm hoping I can get close by keeping his settings and just pull out my i1D3 Pro and reset my white balance from Chromapure (or must I go thru a full recalibration again)?


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post #24927 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 07:38 AM
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I had a chance to check out Patriots Day last night, there is definitely something not right with the grading of this title, especially when comparing it to the majority of the other titles I have here. I also picked up one of the 2 apes movies, I believe you said both were dark. I picked up the most recent one. Only 1 because I know I will much prefer the 3D version over the UHD but want to see if it's as dark as PD.

on this topic I decided to fire up the Samsung 8500, firmware update and a quick A/B between the Samsung and UB900. long story short I should have boat anchored the Samsung a long time ago. Colors are still overcooked in HDR and overall sluggish performance vs the Panasonic.

I recommend keeping the UB900 and getting rid of the Samsung. All the calibration in the world isn't going to help this player. you may as well start with a good known baseline player before a full calibration.
Rise looks great. Dawn is the one that looks very dark. Even though it sounds backwards, Rise is the first one and Dawn is the second one. Dawn is also available in 3D.

The Samsung is certainly on the list to be replaced (simply because I'm not fond of the brand), but in fairness, you said the colors were overcooked, not 50% darker.

While I did not spend hours and hours in deep comparison between the K8500, UB900 and X800, I set them all up so they showed 12 bits on the JVC and put in dark titles I had identified at the time (Patriots and Dawn). If it truly was the Samsung causing my specific 'dark' issue it should have looked fine with the other players. It didn't, they still looked dark and that is what I meant by: "they looked the same". If the wife walked in she would not be able to tell a difference between the players, that is what I mean. The only exception was juicing up the HDR slider on the UB900.

To everyone else: I'm not rehashing all this, just responding to Zombie.
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post #24928 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 07:46 AM
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Patriot's Day ( good movie by the way ) can be a bit dark, but certainly watchable. As for the Samsung, it needs to have this done to it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbAOQNVP7Xk
One of my all time fav scenes (never get enough of it)! Years ago as an IT rookie I was responsible for about 50 printers like this (what a PIA!), so when the the guy in the office says "PC Load Letter... WTF does that mean!?" it always makes me chuckle!
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post #24929 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
From your experience Mike anything more I need to do than just pull & replace (can there be damage inside the light path w/ shards of glass I should be worried about as well?)?

The biggest issue for me is the loss of the B.E.A.-utiful calibration Chad performed for the bulb (~1320 hours). I'm hoping I can get close by keeping his settings and just pull out my i1D3 Pro and reset my white balance from Chromapure (or must I go thru a full recalibration again)?

Kevin: That sucks. Sorry to hear about that....RIP the lamp. I assume there was nothing prior to the explosion to indicate there was an issue? How many hours did have on the lamp?

I would call Mendtronix and ask to speak to someone in the lab.....they should be able to give you some tips or indication if you need to worry about anything besides just replacing the lamp.

Here's an email address for one of their support ppl that helped me when I sent my previous JVC in for repair:

[email protected]

She is great and might be able to schedule a call with the lab or provide a contact number and name for someone to talk to.

Ron
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post #24930 of 31987 Old 06-14-2017, 09:05 AM
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@krichter1 Expert advice is good (and mine is NOT expert) but from what I have seen, there is a bulb inside a sealed housing -- and typically what happens is the bulb bursts, but it's all contained within the housing, so you can safely and easily pull that out.

That said, if you open things up and the HOUSING is compromised, that would give me PAUSE.
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