Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 858 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25711 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 01:43 AM
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ghost in shell is quite a dark film...but loved it ! what lovely punch to the colours... the giesha in the tea room scene... the boat in the harbour. knock out sound track too wow ! much enjoyed this flick on uhd
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post #25712 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
ghost in shell is quite a dark film...but loved it ! what lovely punch to the colours... the giesha in the tea room scene... the boat in the harbour. knock out sound track too wow ! much enjoyed this flick on uhd
I had to raise my AVR volume 3 db to get the same level as with most other titles.

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post #25713 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 06:35 AM
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ghost in shell is quite a dark film...but loved it ! what lovely punch to the colours... the giesha in the tea room scene... the boat in the harbour. knock out sound track too wow ! much enjoyed this flick on uhd
3D > UHD on this title times 100...

the 3D was amazing, one of my new favorite demo's. 3D has ATMOS as well

King Arthur 3D is next... T2 3D in a few months - loving this whole 3D is dead thing..
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post #25714 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
ghost in shell is quite a dark film...but loved it ! what lovely punch to the colours... the giesha in the tea room scene... the boat in the harbour. knock out sound track too wow ! much enjoyed this flick on uhd
Exactly, glad you see it the same way. I don’t understand the negativity towards the UHD version by others nor do I see anything wrong with the grading process; in fact, that’s how it almost looked like even when seen at the dolby cinema...without the DV treatment, of course.

These type of dark films really should be seen in UHD. Besides night scenes, there were plenty of segments all throughout that movie which appeared to have been shot during twilight. If you want to see this the way the director intended the UHD version is the more superior presentation because they capture much of the wider contrast range in detail and provide some solid depth in low lighting levels, something which Blu ray cannot match. That’s also one reason I can’t wait to grab BladeRunner in 4K UHD so I can finally see what else have been missing from the source. Hopefully UHD version will have finer resolution and will look much cleaner…just like GITS.

@Zombie , surprised by your UHD let down considering you have a High Power screen …although completely agreed with 3D. I think I’ve mentioned this somewhere in another thread months ago that the way this movie was shot in terms of camera angles and focus should’ve been intended for 3D. It might look even better than Avatar had the director actually made it for 3D…wish we can have it all like UHD-3D, huh?

Anyway I took some casual handheld shots with my iPhone...they look awful unfortunately, I’m not good at it as I can never get them to quite capture what’s exactly onscreen; instead they appear dimmer with more crushing and clipping in the background such as the one on the 1st pic…those aren’t present onscreen. But just wanted to show an idea there’s really more to this UHD disc than you think it looks…it’s never unwatchable, otherwise, something else is wrong in the setup.

My settings btw has been in Low Lamp/ Aperture -4, Iris on Manual. Never have changed that position except with brighter UHDs wherein I go even further down to -10. My screen is really bright, spec’d from 1.8-2.4, but I always play safe by choosing the lower number if someone asks even if I think gain is really much higher than it appears.
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post #25715 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

@Zombie , surprised by your UHD let down considering you have a High Power screen …although completely agreed with 3D. I think I’ve mentioned this somewhere in another thread months ago that the way this movie was shot in terms of camera angles and focus should’ve been intended for 3D. It might look even better than Avatar had the director actually made it for 3D…wish we can have it all like UHD-3D, huh?
HDR looks great on the big HP screen, it's just missing that extra dimension I found so remarkable on this title.

same thing with Kong Skull Island and Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. I enjoyed the 3D release more than the BD or UHD versions.

The HP was ahead of it's time.. originally designed for lumens starved projectors from a decade + ago -> 2017 with 3D and HDR that also need all the brightness we can get. Da-lite would still have an audience if they made it today.


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post #25716 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 08:40 PM
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I've searched but can't find a straightforward answer to this; how are all of you measuring your setup's NIT capabilities? A spyder5?
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post #25717 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 08:58 PM
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I've searched but can't find a straightforward answer to this; how are all of you measuring your setup's NIT capabilities? A spyder5?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...projector.html
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post #25718 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 09:08 PM
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I finally bit the bullet and am picking up a Linker (from @rboster , thanks!).

My search mojo is weak today. Can I configure it to strip the hdr flag using the switches on the Linker or do I need to use the windows GUI--and if so what edid do I choose?
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post #25719 of 32028 Old 08-02-2017, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I finally bit the bullet and am picking up a Linker (from @rboster , thanks!).

My search mojo is weak today. Can I configure it to strip the hdr flag using the switches on the Linker or do I need to use the windows GUI--and if so what edid do I choose?
You need the windows GUI to select "disable HDR" and you can use the sink or Custom 2 EDID provided your cables can take the full 18Gb/s bandwidth. Otherwise, you can try custom EDID 8. Try to put the linker after the AVR, before the PJ if you can.
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post #25720 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
BTW - speaking of bulbs... if anyone is interested in a great deal I just bought a spare PK-L2615U(G) for $300 off this company iSold-it in Ca (long standing 100% reputation and just make an offer from his $335 ask). He confirmed he opened only one for pics but still has 7 more sealed to sell (so hurry if you need a spare for almost half off!).

sorry for the noob question but it looks different than the others (pics are following). i just wanted to make sure that it is for RS600.

http://www.purelandsupply.com/jvc-lc...k-l2615ug.html
http://www.projectorlamps.com/jvc-lc...k-l2615ug.html
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post #25721 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by gurgenta View Post
sorry for the noob question but it looks different than the others (pics are following). i just wanted to make sure that it is for RS600.

http://www.purelandsupply.com/jvc-lc...k-l2615ug.html
http://www.projectorlamps.com/jvc-lc...k-l2615ug.html
I can't tell for 100% certain about the Ebay lamp, but I can tell you for certain the two you linked to are not OEM JVC.
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post #25722 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
3D > UHD on this title times 100...

the 3D was amazing, one of my new favorite demo's. 3D has ATMOS as well

King Arthur 3D is next... T2 3D in a few months - loving this whole 3D is dead thing..
Thanks for the heads-up on this Z-man! Wow... was that 3D excellent (rich colors... GREAT shadow detail, low IRE gamma balance and FTBs were fantastic)! As you mentioned compared to 4K, from a CR perspective I never felt a wanting need for eye popping light compared to HDR; especially given the added spacial depth/immersion this 3D version provides. All in all... a Great Reference 3D title!

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post #25723 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gurgenta View Post
sorry for the noob question but it looks different than the others (pics are following). i just wanted to make sure that it is for RS600.

http://www.purelandsupply.com/jvc-lc...k-l2615ug.html
http://www.projectorlamps.com/jvc-lc...k-l2615ug.html
Agree w/ Mike (and you should since he's the bulb expert here), and it should look like this...

I see ALL the lamps are now gone... wow!
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post #25724 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
Thanks for the heads-up on this Z-man! Wow... was that 3D excellent (rich colors... GREAT shadow detail, low IRE gamma balance and FTBs were fantastic)! As you mentioned compared to 4K, from a CR perspective I never felt a wanting need for eye popping light compared to HDR; especially given the added spacial depth/immersion this 3D version provides. All in all... a Great Reference 3D title!

glad you liked it, I am going in for round 2 this weekend with a few visitors. Major demo material!!

those lamps disappeared in less than a day after you posted. My other spare was from them for even less $275 at the time, they are definitely JVC OEM lamps. My guess is a dealer or vendor went out of business and these end up on chopping block. I only have ~650 hours and the original lamp is excellent, still run low lamp for most HDR and 3D content with the HP. Plenty of spare lamps now to hold over till the next big thing in this price range. Will not likely spend north of 10K again on a projector after the VW1100.
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post #25725 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 11:28 AM
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Well looks like my X950RB has to go for service Bulb is having problems staying on when initially starting up the projector. Wasn't a huge issue at first but now it takes me 10-20 times to get it to work. Sent JVC Canada a picture and video of my problem and they think it might be a communication error with a circuit board. Thankfully they aren't too far away for my service station and will just drive it in myself. Plus they said they should be able to get my bt2020 and gamma curves installed as well. Thankfully I didn't sale off my Sony 40ES projector yet

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post #25726 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 11:32 AM
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that's a bummer but hopefully it returns and is better than new
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post #25727 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 12:51 PM
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Hi. I bought a RS500 from Mike Garrett about 6 months ago. I was wondering how often are you supposed to change the inner air filter? The manual does not mention how often to do this. Any help is appreciated.

Also, how close to proper calibration is the unit right out of the box, in a dark room with no windows? I now have 250 hours on it, so the unit is now ready for calibration, if need be? It's in back of the wooden panel in the picture.
Thanks
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post #25728 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post
Hi. I bought a RS500 from Mike Garrett about 6 months ago. I was wondering how often are you supposed to change the inner air filter? The manual does not mention how often to do this. Any help is appreciated.

Also, how close to proper calibration is the unit right out of the box, in a dark room with no windows? I now have 250 hours on it, so the unit is now ready for calibration, if need be? It's in back of the wooden panel in the picture.
Thanks
Dave

Nice hush box ! Is it hard to access to check the filter ?
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post #25729 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 01:30 PM
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Handsome theater.

Since the filter is wire mesh and cleans via pulling it out from the front, running water over it and drying it, I clean mine at least every 50 hours. Heat is the #1 enemy of gear like this, in my experience.
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post #25730 of 32028 Old 08-03-2017, 06:28 PM
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Hi i have a x5000 its not calibrated
Can i just download mannis custom gamma?
And will hdr look better ?

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post #25731 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easycruise View Post
Hi. I bought a RS500 from Mike Garrett about 6 months ago. I was wondering how often are you supposed to change the inner air filter? The manual does not mention how often to do this. Any help is appreciated.

Also, how close to proper calibration is the unit right out of the box, in a dark room with no windows? I now have 250 hours on it, so the unit is now ready for calibration, if need be? It's in back of the wooden panel in the picture.
Thanks
Dave

Room looks good. Did I send you settings? If not, shoot me an email. I would clean the filter every 100 hours.
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post #25732 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 09:19 AM
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Room looks good. Did I send you settings? If not, shoot me an email. I would clean the filter every 100 hours.
I will send you an email, thanks. The front panel of the hush box comes off pretty easy.

More pictures. I have a blue sky and clouds when the lights are on, and then a night sky with stars (painted by fellow AVS'er Jeff Stewart @ Nightskymurals.com) when the lights are off.
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post #25733 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Room looks good. Did I send you settings? If not, shoot me an email. I would clean the filter every 100 hours.
Somehow, this recommendation to regularly clean the filter escaped my attention. So I went ahead and did it last night - first time, with about 750 hours on my bulb. Fortunately, it appeared to be completely clean - I really couldn't appreciate any dust build-up, and after cleaning, it looked the same as before.

But regardless, I appreciate the recommendation, and will perform this simple task regularly, just to play it safe.

Thanks to all those who brought up this issue!

Don
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post #25734 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 01:51 PM
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Use of Ryan Masciola's HDR10 Patterns

I have the RS400, SR7010, Philips BDP7501. This UHD Player works fine, except it wouldn't display RM's HDR10 patterns when put on USB Stick, via DLNA, etc. So I've been waiting on the availability of the UHD-BD version, which is now about to be released.

As I contemplate ordering it, I wanted to clarify a couple of things:

1. My main original reason for getting it would be to use it on conjunction with Arve's Custom Gamma Curve Tool, to more precisely adjust Contrast when creating the curve using his 'automated' feature. But at the same time, I recall recommendations from some here who implied it would be better to use bright scenes from actual HDR movies, rather than formal patterns, in making this adjustment.

I never quite understood how/why that would be better than using the precisely defined patterns, but then there's a lot I don't understand!

So, is there a consensus here as to the preferred/better way to adjust contrast when using Arve's tool: actual bright movie scenes, vs HDR10 patterns?

2. I have successfully done JVC's Autocalibration, and used Arve's Custom Gamma tool (which may get tweaked, depending on the answer above), and am pretty happy with what I'm seeing. Is there anything else I can use this disc for? I do not have a pro level light meter, formal calibration software, etc. - just the Spyder 5.

Basically, I'm just wondering if it's worth my getting RM's new HDR10 patterns, and exactly what use I could get from them?

Thanks.

Don

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post #25735 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 02:43 PM
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I use those patterns for setting Brightness (ie, black level).

Like others have noted, setting Contrast (bright level clipping) appears to work better by using a title with context above 1000 nits and just making sure you can see the detail there. I found using test patterns to result is a less good picture. I don't know why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I have the RS400, SR7010, Philips BDP7501. This UHD Player works fine, except it wouldn't display RM's HDR10 patterns when put on USB Stick, via DLNA, etc. So I've been waiting on the availability of the UHD-BD version, which is now about to be released.

As I contemplate ordering it, I wanted to clarify a couple of things:

1. My main original reason for getting it would be to use it on conjunction with Arve's Custom Gamma Curve Tool, to more precisely adjust Contrast when creating the curve using his 'automated' feature. But at the same time, I recall recommendations from some here who implied it would be better to use bright scenes from actual HDR movies, rather than formal patterns, in making this adjustment.

I never quite understood how/why that would be better than using the precisely defined patterns, but then there's a lot I don't understand!

So, is there a consensus here as to the preferred/better way to adjust contrast when using Arve's tool: actual bright movie scenes, vs HDR10 patterns?

2. I have successfully done JVC's Autocalibration, and used Arve's Custom Gamma tool (which may get tweaked, depending on the answer above), and am pretty happy with what I'm seeing. Is there anything else I can use this disc for? I do not have a pro level light meter, formal calibration software, etc. - just the Spyder 5.

Basically, I'm just wondering if it's worth my getting RM's new HDR10 patterns, and exactly what use I could get from them?

Thanks.

Don
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post #25736 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 03:14 PM
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BTW - speaking of bulbs... if anyone is interested in a great deal I just bought a spare PK-L2615U(G) for $300 off this company iSold-it in Ca (long standing 100% reputation and just make an offer from his $335 ask). He confirmed he opened only one for pics but still has 7 more sealed to sell (so hurry if you need a spare for almost half off!).

Thanks for tip Kevin! Got mine in the mail today. Sealed JVC box as described.

Jay
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post #25737 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I use those patterns for setting Brightness (ie, black level).

Like others have noted, setting Contrast (bright level clipping) appears to work better by using a title with context above 1000 nits and just making sure you can see the detail there. I found using test patterns to result is a less good picture. I don't know why.
Thanks for the reply.

It is odd why using patterns isn't the perfect solution. So much of everything else in calibrating these devices is based on standards and precise measurements, that this seems unexpected.

But assuming for the moment that it is, I guess I find myself asking if I'll see enough improvement in my final curve with tweaking Brightness alone to justify the expense. I might play with the patterns on the Sony 4k discs, to set Brightness, as they're theoretically the same (but apparently they don't flash, and of short duration, requiring one to pause to make the adjustment).

If there are other things I can use the disc for, that might help me justify buying it, which is one reason that I posed the question.

Thanks again.

Don

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post #25738 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 04:11 PM
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I'm sure some people use them for more things and probably for setting Contrast etc but if using the speed guide (linked in my sig) then for whatever reason the patterns were more challenging for me.
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post #25739 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jtolive View Post
Thanks for tip Kevin! Got mine in the mail today. Sealed JVC box as described.

Jay
Oh wow, nice find. Too bad they're already gone, but I'll have to bookmark them to jump on it should there be a next time.
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post #25740 of 32028 Old 08-04-2017, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I'm sure some people use them for more things and probably for setting Contrast etc but if using the speed guide (linked in my sig) then for whatever reason the patterns were more challenging for me.
One of the reasons why UHD HDR patterns can be more challenging to use is that it's perfectly possible to look at the contrast pattern and *think* you are resolving up to 1100nits or 4000nits, while in fact you would be crushing many levels in between each level shown on the pattern. This is because there are many levels in HDR between each band shown on the pattern, while in HD if you see every band up to 235 or 255, then you know you're not clipping anything or losing any details, because all the actual levels are shown in the pattern itself.

In other words, showing all levels distinctly on the contrast UHD HDR pattern isn't a guarantee that you're not crushing some information.

The amount of crushing in the top end depends on the parameters used to generate the custom curve. The narrower the angle between the top of the curve and the hard clip horizontal line (say at 1100 or 4000nits), the more you're likely to crush some levels as there is not enough resolution in the curve to detect a level change (many levels in the curve are assigned to the same output level). The wider the angle between the top of your curve and the hard clip line, the more likely you are to resolve all or most levels, and limit crushing. I have probably posted a couple of graphs explaining this (and linked to it in the first post of the JVC Autocal thread).

This is why some prefer to use the actual picture. If you're not fully aware of the effect of each parameter on the curve and how the shape of the curve will impact on the amount of crushing in the top end, then it can be easier to look at actual pictures and see the effect of each parameter in order to find the best compromise for a given set-up.

The parameters I've suggested for various curves always try to maximize the resolution in the top end and minimize clipping below the hard clip line by having a wide "angle of attack" of the top of the curve. A narrower angle will produce a curve that will look more pleasing if you look at the graph (more progressive) but the actual picture will look worse as you crush many levels, hence lose detail in the highlights, even if the contrast pattern tells you you're not clipping anything.

Visually, when looking at the patterns, you want a significant difference in shade between each band in the contrast pattern. The more "contrast" between each band, the less likely you are to crush. The closer in shade each band looks to its neighbor, the more likely you are crushing levels in the highlights, even if you can distinguish different shades between the bars.

I'm sure it's clear as mud, but that's the best I can do right now

Last edited by Manni01; 08-04-2017 at 10:18 PM.
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