Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 899 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26941 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Might even be a better black floor (for SDR) since contrast increases with these as you close the iris
True, I was just trying to disprove the notion that the black floor will automaticlly be raised, by buying ST130 over ST100. Since the JVC's have a manual iris, it does not have to raise the black floor, though as you increase the FL on the screen, the black floor does raise, but as I said, that happens no matter if the increase is from gain or opening the iris.
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post #26942 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Oh, I downloaded the AutoCal software, just didn't do the calibration part,
I only used it as a custom gamma import tool.

Steps are in the calibration thread, curves zip files were downloaded off the first page
My posts with screen shots span about 3-4 pages starting here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post54658270

My JVC, screen, throw and room were not too far off from Manni's
So I trusted his numbers for my room too and very pleased with the results.

....

...and Yes I have to manually switch back from Gamma D ....
Thanks Pio! You're walkthrough is very helpful.

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post #26943 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 04:09 PM
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I will be looking at a used RS500 soon. What should I be looking for to determine this is a decent sample?


I have had a RS10 for nine years so not sure exactly what to look for?


If I buy, I then get a Spyder 5 for autocal and which HD Fury product? Linker? Vertex?


I would pair with a UB900 player to go with my old school 133" 2.8 high power.


Thanks for any help!

RS600, 133" 2.8 HP Screen, Panasonic UB-900
Marantz, 7702MKII, Emotiva XPA-1, XPA-2, XPA-100's
7.2.4 with 4pi JBL LCR's, Athena 100 surrounds and 4x Volt 10lx ceiling speakers.
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post #26944 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 05:09 PM
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I will be looking at a used RS500 soon. What should I be looking for to determine this is a decent sample?
I'd STRONGLY suggest getting a RSx20 model or newer. The RSx00 models require messing around with custom gamma curves to get HDR to look right. The RSx20 and beyond models look good out of the box.
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post #26945 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I'd STRONGLY suggest getting a RSx20 model or newer. The RSx00 models require messing around with custom gamma curves to get HDR to look right.
They do, but it's not like it's a big deal, it's pretty easy to either install a pre-made custom gamma or to create one with Arve's tool. If you don't need the low lag mode, there's not a lot of benefit to the x20 line. Yeah, the HDR curve is better out of the box, but the DI's still disabled, so if you want the DI, you need to use a Linker or Vertex to get it back on either x00 or x20 line. If an x00 is cheaper than an x20 it might be worth it.
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post #26946 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
They do, but it's not like it's a big deal, it's pretty easy to either install a pre-made custom gamma or to create one with Arve's tool. If you don't need the low lag mode, there's not a lot of benefit to the x20 line. Yeah, the HDR curve is better out of the box, but the DI's still disabled, so if you want the DI, you need to use a Linker or Vertex to get it back on either x00 or x20 line. If an x00 is cheaper than an x20 it might be worth it.
Right, just wanting him to know the cost of saving money.
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post #26947 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Right, just wanting him to know the cost of saving money.
No offense, but most folks haven't had near the trouble you have had with getting their x00's setup for HDR
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post #26948 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 05:51 PM
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Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread

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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
No offense, but most folks haven't had near the trouble you have had with getting their x00's setup for HDR
We’re looking at the same image (I posted proof). I just don’t like it.

Regardless, you’d agree an RSx20 model is easier to deal with. That’s all I’m saying.
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post #26949 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
No offense, but most folks haven't had near the trouble you have had with getting their x00's setup for HDR
Doesn’t one also need to constantly override the Gamma D curve?
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post #26950 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Doesn’t one also need to constantly override the Gamma D curve?
Not if you have the Linker or upcoming Vertex. Very easy to set up. That is what I use with my RS500.
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post #26951 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
Not if you have the Linker or upcoming Vertex. Very easy to set up. That is what I use with my RS500.
Really? So do you have to select (albeit once) the custom curve each time a HDR movie is played or will your setup automatically choose the previous custom curve that was used?
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post #26952 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 08:10 PM
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Really? So do you have to select (albeit once) the custom curve each time a HDR movie is played or will your setup automatically choose the previous custom curve that was used?
No selection required for custom curve once it is set up. If you left your PJ on your HDR user mode last time you selected it then when you go back all will still be there and no need to select it again - so you will get your BT2020 along with HDR Avre curve for your UHD movies.

The only time you need to switch is if you are watching SDR which would require your SDR user mode.
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post #26953 of 31899 Old 10-16-2017, 08:39 PM
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Really? So do you have to select (albeit once) the custom curve each time a HDR movie is played or will your setup automatically choose the previous custom curve that was used?
Yes, no (unless you mean does it simply preserve the state of the last thing you watched.)

Since I am 40/60 HDR/SDR movies at present, that means I have to change it once almost every time I fire up a new movie, since I was often watching a different gamma that last time the projector was on.
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post #26954 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 04:35 AM
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Really? So do you have to select (albeit once) the custom curve each time a HDR movie is played or will your setup automatically choose the previous custom curve that was used?
Yes, you need to manually pick the mode for the content you're watching (HDR, SDR, 3D, whatever you want to setup) and that's it.
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post #26955 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
No selection required for custom curve once it is set up. If you left your PJ on your HDR user mode last time you selected it then when you go back all will still be there and no need to select it again - so you will get your BT2020 along with HDR Avre curve for your UHD movies.

The only time you need to switch is if you are watching SDR which would require your SDR user mode.
@nathan_h @stanger89 @Frank D Got it, thanks. Sounds like the linker takes care of auto switching to Gamma D after synch, which would be fine for me, but I'm hoping to find a solution that will auto detect HDR and SDR content and select the appropriate user mode and curve.This will allow the wife to simply choose her movie and hit play
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post #26956 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 06:13 AM
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I don’t think this generation of jvc will work for your wife. I’m not sure about the next two years' iterations.
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post #26957 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
@nathan_h @stanger89 @Frank D Got it, thanks. Sounds like the linker takes care of auto switching to Gamma D after synch, which would be fine for me, but I'm hoping to find a solution that will auto detect HDR and SDR content and select the appropriate user mode and curve.This will allow the wife to simply choose her movie and hit play
Well I know the Lumagen can do it (in a way), or like I said there was some talk that that might be possible with the Vertex, can't remember if it was in the current Vertex thread or the closed one.
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post #26958 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 07:00 AM
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How would a Lumagen adjust the Gamma setting from SDR to HDR and the color space setting from REC709 to REC2020 on the JVC?

Even with something like the Linker in place, one still has to manually select a profile on the JVC.
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post #26959 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 07:08 AM
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I don’t think this generation of jvc will work for your wife. I’m not sure about the next two years' iterations.
Sorry Honey, this can't be done with our current pj. But if we get a RS540
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post #26960 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 07:10 AM
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Hahahaha. Something like that, but frankly, I haven't paid enough attention to the 540 feature set to know if it is all now automatic. (I think it is.)
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post #26961 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
How would a Lumagen adjust the Gamma setting from SDR to HDR and the color space setting from REC709 to REC2020 on the JVC?
Well, I can think of two options, but they're not exactly the same. Basically with a Lumagen you could have one calibration on your JVC, and then the lumagen could map that via Intensity Mapping and CMSs as required. Only thing that wouldn't handle is setting the iris different for SDR vs HDR.

I know it will be possible to do, involving the Vertex, HDFury has confirmed that all the OSD info (HDR, Rec.2020, MaxFALL, etc) will be available via RS232, so you could with an automation system, query the Vertex for the current content and and trigger a change based on that.

But at one point there was talk that the Vertex might be able to send RS232 (or possibly IR?) commands based on metadata, but I'm not sure where that went.

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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Hahahaha. Something like that, but frankly, I haven't paid enough attention to the 540 feature set to know if it is all now automatic. (I think it is.)
It should be, as I understand it it's automatic on the RSx20's but they disable the DI.
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post #26962 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I'd STRONGLY suggest getting a RSx20 model or newer. The RSx00 models require messing around with custom gamma curves to get HDR to look right. The RSx20 and beyond models look good out of the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
They do, but it's not like it's a big deal, it's pretty easy to either install a pre-made custom gamma or to create one with Arve's tool. If you don't need the low lag mode, there's not a lot of benefit to the x20 line. Yeah, the HDR curve is better out of the box, but the DI's still disabled, so if you want the DI, you need to use a Linker or Vertex to get it back on either x00 or x20 line. If an x00 is cheaper than an x20 it might be worth it.
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Right, just wanting him to know the cost of saving money.
Thanks guys! All very good points. It's about a thousand dollar delta between a used 500 to a 520 and then another grand-ish to a 540. Coming from an rs10 the 500 should still be a nice upgrade while I get familiar with curves and linkers etc.

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post #26963 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post
Thanks guys! All very good points. It's about a thousand dollar delta between a used 500 to a 520 and then another grand-ish to a 540. Coming from an rs10 the 500 should still be a nice upgrade while I get familiar with curves and linkers etc.
this will be a noticeable upgrade from the RS10->RS500 With the linker or vertex and the custom curves, HDR can look excellent and be a 'set it and forget' it setup. I generally run 1 curve now for all HDR content and it looks amazing.

These tools added many years of life to the 2015-2016 models and are better for HDR calibration than what Sony provides with their single HDR adjustment slider.

Arve/Manni01/HDfury FTW
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post #26964 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
this will be a noticeable upgrade from the RS10->RS500 With the linker or vertex and the custom curves, HDR can look excellent and be a 'set it and forget' it setup. I generally run 1 curve now for all HDR content and it looks amazing.

These tools added many years of life to the 2015-2016 models and are better for HDR calibration than what Sony provides with their single HDR adjustment slider.

Arve/Manni01/HDfury FTW
I had intended to go from my 10' hp 2.8 to a slightly bigger AT screen, but I think I will play with hdr and see how much I like that.

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post #26965 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post
Coming from an rs10 the 500 should still be a nice upgrade while I get familiar with curves and linkers etc.
Definitely budget for a pro calibration from one of the guys who knows JVC projectors well.

Seems to me that the 540 would be worth a reasonable premium over the 500 (or 520) if the new e-shift generation yields even better image quality. Of course, even a 500 is going to knock you out before even dipping into 4K/HDR. When you get to that (with proper calibration), then it's game over. I'm this close to lumping 1080P Blu-ray in with DVD.

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post #26966 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
How would a Lumagen adjust the Gamma setting from SDR to HDR and the color space setting from REC709 to REC2020 on the JVC?

Even with something like the Linker in place, one still has to manually select a profile on the JVC.
I don't own a Lumagen and never will unless I win the Powerball. But I do read the Lumagen thread every once in a while to see how the upper class lives.

The Lumagen Pro has a feature called HDR Intensity Mapping which as far as I can understand takes an HDR input signal, performs tone mapping based on the HDR metadata, and outputs the result as an SDR BT.2020 signal. This means the JVC can be configured for SDR BT.2020 just like we do when we use the Panasonic/HDFury combo or Oppo Strip Metadata option. There is never a need to select an HDR gamma. With regards to REC709/BT.2020, I suspect that these same Lumagen owners also convert REC709 to BT.2020 so that they never need to adjust anything in the projector. With both of these conversions, this is also likely how they avoid the JVC HDMI resyncs.

CJ
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post #26967 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post
I will be looking at a used RS500 soon. What should I be looking for to determine this is a decent sample?


I have had a RS10 for nine years so not sure exactly what to look for?


If I buy, I then get a Spyder 5 for autocal and which HD Fury product? Linker? Vertex?


I would pair with a UB900 player to go with my old school 133" 2.8 high power.


Thanks for any help!
I would go with RS520 over the RS500. Can find some great closeout deals on RS520and there are even some B-stock RS520's to be found.
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post #26968 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 04:20 PM
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Chadb works his magic again....

I wanted to give a quick update and yet another kudos to the world famous calibrator @Chad B

Chad was at my house the last day in a half calibrating my audio after getting new speakers and subs. He also worked on my JVC X750R. Chad's last calibration was done before the custom Gamma curves made there way to this forum. I had been using the Panasonic UB900/Fury combo to watch SDR 2020 for 4K until a few months ago. At that time I started having some weird issues with my Fury and decided to take it out of the chain. I also updated the firmware, which was long overdue, in my UB900 and started using the slider feature for HDR. This gave me a temporary, yet acceptable HDR picture while viewing some 4K material until I could get Chad back to my place.

I also made the decision to switch from a Falcon screen to a Seymour XD and dropped down to a slightly smaller size. If anyone is wondering, the XD is definitely the way to go IMO over the Falcon. I am only 9.5 feet back and couldn't see the weave at all. The picture is noticeably brighter and the colors pop more than before.

Back to the HDR picture. Chad was able to give me two custom settings. He told me the difference between them but I was in a hurry and forgot exactly what each is best for. My guess is one is for darker titles and one is for titles that are a tad brighter. I have a message into him for more clarification. Both settings are for low lamp mode since the fan noise is too much when the projector is engaged in high lamp mode.

Prior to Chad coming, I had contemplated jumping into the new RS540 or RS640. This calibration will definitely buy me some time and has given me a "new" projector in a way.

I am very happy with the way HDR now looks. I watched parts of all three Star Trek movies, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, John Wick, John Wick 2 and the very beginning of the new Spiderman movie. Since I haven't seen Spiderman yet, I didn't want to watch too much of it yet. The other titles are titles that I have watched on a regular basis so I was familiar with the material. All the titles looked really sharp and not dark at all, compared to where they were with Gamma D. John Wick 2 looked much better. The blacks were deep and the colors had some good pop. Detail in all the movies was much improved. The higher gain screen, slight decrease in size and Chad's magic have given me a new appreciation for HDR. I don't see a need to go back to SDR 2020(especially since it is so 2016..lol). Definitely looking forward to watching Wonder Woman and Transformers along with Spiderman this weekend.

Since I am not using a Fury or Linker, I have to manually override the Gamma. It isn't a big problem at all to me...

BTW, Chad was REALLY impressed with the Spiderman movie. Mentioned it might be a reference title for him now.

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post #26969 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
@nathan_h @stanger89 @Frank D Got it, thanks. Sounds like the linker takes care of auto switching to Gamma D after synch, which would be fine for me, but I'm hoping to find a solution that will auto detect HDR and SDR content and select the appropriate user mode and curve.This will allow the wife to simply choose her movie and hit play
In my case, these are the complexities that make my wife have no interest in running the projection system. Honestly, I'm good with that (he says lovingly).

She loves her 65" OLED and handles well the minor inconveniences of the receiver, cable box, and player attached. She enjoys movies on the projection system, but it works best that I operate it.
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See ya. Dave

"High Fidelity audio has been like a dog chasing his tail. High Fidelity in my marriage has been much more rewarding because she knows where I sleep."
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post #26970 of 31899 Old 10-17-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post
Thanks guys! All very good points. It's about a thousand dollar delta between a used 500 to a 520 and then another grand-ish to a 540. Coming from an rs10 the 500 should still be a nice upgrade while I get familiar with curves and linkers etc.
I'm not 100% certain (I keep forgetting) but I'm not so sure a Vertex is required with a 520, so that might reduce that $1000 figure to within striking distance. I do admit, I'd deal with the custom gamma to save $1000, but if you need a Vertex with the 500 and not a 520, I'd probably spend extra on the projector and not the support gear.

I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you decide, so long as your aware of the pros/cons.
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