Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 931 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 84806Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #27901 of 32133 Old 12-30-2017, 05:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stevenjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,946
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 641 Post(s)
Liked: 834
Agreed. My only problem is that I will NEVER buy a Sony again. That greatly narrows my options for Projectors. Luckily, we have HDFury (and Manni and Arve) to breath long life into out current JVCs. I'll keep the one I have for a while longer. I hope that I don't need to buy another until they fix the HDMI delay, bright corners, and mechanical horizontal lens issues in that order. And if it's brighter with no sacrifice in blacks and a native 4K, all the better. Come out with that at a reasonable price and I'll buy.
Manni01 likes this.

...Steve
"Opinions are like orgasms… mine matters most and I really don’t care if you have one or not." ;)
 
My HT gear
stevenjw is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #27902 of 32133 Old 12-30-2017, 06:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Clark Burk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Baltimore,MD.USA
Posts: 1,987
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 713 Post(s)
Liked: 661
I think JVC believed they had a cash cow here with us projector owners, at least they did until Manni and Arve came up with their magic. Now it’s possible to achieve the near performance of a new 40 series with our lowly 00 series. Thankfully we can now wait until a worthwhile hardware improvement is made without being made to upgrade just to get the latest updates that a firmware upgrade could achieve.
JVC wise up or go away.......
muzz and Jive Turkey like this.

Clark
Clark Burk is online now  
post #27903 of 32133 Old 12-30-2017, 07:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave Vaughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 5,990
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1469 Post(s)
Liked: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Agreed. My only problem is that I will NEVER buy a Sony again. That greatly narrows my options for Projectors. Luckily, we have HDFury (and Manni and Arve) to breath long life into out current JVCs. I'll keep the one I have for a while longer. I hope that I don't need to buy another until they fix the HDMI delay, bright corners, and mechanical horizontal lens issues in that order. And if it's brighter with no sacrifice in blacks and a native 4K, all the better. Come out with that at a reasonable price and I'll buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I think JVC believed they had a cash cow here with us projector owners, at least they did until Manni and Arve came up with their magic. Now it’s possible to achieve the near performance of a new 40 series with our lowly 00 series. Thankfully we can now wait until a worthwhile hardware improvement is made without being made to upgrade just to get the latest updates that a firmware upgrade could achieve.
JVC wise up or go away.......
I have ZERO desire to upgrade, thanks to the HDFury...there is absolutely no reason to. I don't game on my projector and it works perfectly with everything I watch on the market. Unless JVC makes a huge leap next year (or another manufacturer), then I'm probably keeping my projector until 2019. As I tell my wife though, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time
Tom Bley, Willie, IMDave and 3 others like this.

David Vaughn Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)
Dave Vaughn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #27904 of 32133 Old 12-30-2017, 07:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stef2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: China
Posts: 1,280
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I think JVC believed they had a cash cow here with us projector owners, at least they did until Manni and Arve came up with their magic. Now it’s possible to achieve the near performance of a new 40 series with our lowly 00 series. Thankfully we can now wait until a worthwhile hardware improvement is made without being made to upgrade just to get the latest updates that a firmware upgrade could achieve.
JVC wise up or go away.......
I just caught up with the last three months of this thread and I could not agree more. I would certainly have upgraded my RS500 last year, weren’t it for Manny and others whot made it great for UHD HDR 4K viewing. Thank you, JVC, for keeping me from getting the most out of my projector, you greedy company !
Manni01 and jtolive like this.
stef2 is offline  
post #27905 of 32133 Old 12-30-2017, 08:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
I would go for the middle of the range model over the low end one, the 570 being the entry level one this year I believe.

The increased contrast, brightness and color space are very useful, especially for HDR.

That said, only you can decide what makes the most sense for your budget and either would be a notable upgrade from where you are at.

I would not want to pay more for last years mid range model, used, than this year's entry level model, new. But this is not the place to talk deals, etc.

The Fury products can bridge the many key feature gaps between earlier years and this year's models, and give a few more features.

Definitely budget for a professional calibration to create a custom hdr gamma for you.

If you are a gamer, the low latency of the newer models can be nice.

Never heard of an extended warranty for bulbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang5o View Post
I'm finally getting ready to setup my home theater room in my new (last December new anyway) house. I'm also considering replacing my 10 year old 720P CIH setup with a JVC projector (CIH via lens memory). I had been thinking about waiting until Spring time for the PJ but it looks like one local dealer where I can get great pricing once a year has dropped JVC. So, if I upgrade now here are my options

JVC DLA-X750R (2016 model) low hour demo at a high end dealer. I have purchased several "used" items from them and trust them very much.

JVC DLX-X570R (2017 model).

The 750 demo would be about $1000 more than the new in box 570. I know the 750 adds higher contrast, THX, ISF and more lens memory. How do these two compare for HDR and things like DCI P3? Does the 750 display full DCI P3?

I was leaning towards the 570 to use the extra towards other needed HT upgrades. Seating and screen for sure but also looking at new receiver with Atmos and the required speakers. I figure even the 570 is a tremendous upgrade over my current PJ. The 570 has the low latency mode, auto HDR and says improved HDMI inputs.

Where can you get extended warranties possibly with bulb coverage for PJs these days?

Would the HD Fury Vertex be of any help for 4K or color space with these?

Thoughts, recommendations???

My other option would be to wait on the PJ upgrade. Get everything else in order and hope for a good closeout on the x90 series or maybe a Sony (true 4K).
nathan_h is offline  
post #27906 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 03:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
alebonau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Land of Contentment :)
Posts: 4,793
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1900 Post(s)
Liked: 1303
I notice gaming being mentioned,

as happened, been very much enjoying the jvc x7000 for gaming of all things since we got an xbox one x a little while back. the one X comes with 4k UHD HDR games which was interested also to check out. my gaming interest itself has wained a tad as have found with few gaming systems have bought and sold over the years in the xbox 360/ all the ps3 variants and ps4 as well. So picked some games more for the daughter. in Forza... its G rated and she likes racing games, and zoo tycoon as looks like an interesting thing for kids.



and in hooking up the xbox one gave the projector all ticks for support



and projector acknowledged 4k 60 10bit coming through as well no probs which was good to see,



in getting things going gaming wise, firstly i have to say forza comes up an absolute treat in 4K UHD and in all its high dynamic range and wider colour gamut glory ! and right from get go !

the detail and sheen and colours etc all look absolutely magnificent !



certainly a lot of fun on the big screen which adds to engagement, and great fun tootling around in all sorts of cars old and new over all sorts of race tracks and conditions !





similarly zoo tycoon, is a fantastic experience,



this is more first person like putting you right in the zoo atmosphere, interacting with the animals and environment. with the projector screen puts you right there

At no stage have i seen any issues with lag etc but then again with previous jvc i had in the older x35 i didnt have any bothers with games either even first person shooter types.

but then i guess we are no hard core gamers, and with my daughter we might only run it for an hour or so and these games are not kind requiring razor sharp responses or life death depending on it. hence why all seems quite useable. more hardcore gamers might feel otherwise
f
rom me so far its a big thumbs up !! :thumb:

ps am tempted to grab need for speed or wolfenstein next
PioManiac likes this.

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


Welcome to my lounge room :)
alebonau is online now  
post #27907 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 06:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
mustang5o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Somewhere in middle America.
Posts: 770
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I would go for the middle of the range model over the low end one, the 570 being the entry level one this year I believe.

The increased contrast, brightness and color space are very useful, especially for HDR.
I was leaning towards the x750 especially if I can get them to drop the price a bit more. However, does the x750 support increased color space? I wasn't sure if that was supported until 2017 mid and upper end models. If the x750 does support the full DCI P3 (I know none of the entry level models do) then that really pushes me that direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
That said, only you can decide what makes the most sense for your budget and either would be a notable upgrade from where you are at.

I would not want to pay more for last years mid range model, used, than this year's entry level model, new. But this is not the place to talk deals, etc.
Of course, that makes sense. If I could find a NIB x750 or x770 for a really good price I might consider that. Again, I need to figure out my priorities and all. I think seeing these two available now is making me want to upgrade the projector. Which will accelerate everything else I need to do .

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
The Fury products can bridge the many key feature gaps between earlier years and this year's models, and give a few more features.

Definitely budget for a professional calibration to create a custom hdr gamma for you.
Can you point me to some threads on the Fury products and the people mentioned here who help make them work great with the JVC's? Lots of reading to do I'm sure. I wonder how much they can help out the entry level JVC's?

I'm actually trying to budget in a meter and calibration software myself (been studying it off and on for a couple of years now). Probably one of the ChromaPure packages with EyeOne Pro2 and Display 3. Considering I could probably use a real calibration (instead of DNice settings) on my 2 plasmas (ZT60, 500M) it would be worth it for me to get into calibrating my own stuff. Any threads on these custom gamma settings or are they buried in the owners threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
If you are a gamer, the low latency of the newer models can be nice.
Nothing serious but the occasional Rock Band party, Wii (yeah, old tech), but maybe getting into some driving games (Forza...). Seems the post after yours thinks they do alright on the 2016 models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Never heard of an extended warranty for bulbs.
I had one on my 720p and I've seen them out there. Just can't remember who has them anymore.

"Like a Ninja, only better!"

Current HT Room Build
mustang5o is offline  
post #27908 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:15 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 23,130
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4156 Post(s)
Liked: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I think JVC believed they had a cash cow here with us projector owners, at least they did until Manni and Arve came up with their magic. Now it’s possible to achieve the near performance of a new 40 series with our lowly 00 series. Thankfully we can now wait until a worthwhile hardware improvement is made without being made to upgrade just to get the latest updates that a firmware upgrade could achieve.
JVC wise up or go away.......
Well they haven't actually improved the performance at all since the x00 line. They "corrected" the specifications, but haven't improved anything. Even e-Shift 5 on the latest models is a mixed bag apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
I notice gaming being mentioned,
I really wish I could game on my RS600, but the lag is terrible and just ruins everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang5o View Post
I was leaning towards the x750 especially if I can get them to drop the price a bit more. However, does the x750 support increased color space?


It does, the top models have had that for years.

Quote:
Can you point me to some threads on the Fury products and the people mentioned here who help make them work great with the JVC's? Lots of reading to do I'm sure. I wonder how much they can help out the entry level JVC's?
This is probably the best one, the HDFury threads are a mess of people having connection problems.
stanger89 is offline  
post #27909 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 2
hi all,

this thread is amazing with all the information but can someone tell me how the hdfury will help and how hard to setup/program etc...

I have no problem purchasing one if there will are a real perceived benefit...just not really sure what it will mean to me as the thread is a little bit information overload

I have a Marantz 8802 along with Roku and appletv4k both of which support HDR and using a jvc rs600



thanks
Larryfl is offline  
post #27910 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 334 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5482 Post(s)
Liked: 5694
Vertex JVC Macro V3.1 (07-Feb-18)

Here is the post in the Vertex thread where you can download the latest f/w for the JVC Macro:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vid...l#post55719108 [EDIT 19-02-18: this is the link to the official f/w updated to support V3.1 of the JVC Macro in auto mode]

I attach my pack with two [now three] Dolby Cinema Emulation curves and an HLG curve and so you can make use of it.

[EDIT 02-02-18: the pack now includes three sets of three curves, see release notes for V3.0 below]
[EDIT 07-02-18: the pack now includes an additional set of BT-2390 versions of all the curves, see release notes for V3.1 below and this post for more details]


Here are the main improvements in V2.0 compared to V1.0
  • Added support for x.v.color to the existing support for 3D, SDR and HDR
  • Added support for HLG BT2100 (two modes, HLG-Rec709 and HLG-BT2020)
  • Added support for SDR BT2020.
  • Added support for HDR-Rec709.
  • Added support for two SDR Rec-709 modes instead of one. One for 50-60i and one for 23-60p. That way, we can select a specific calibration with frame interpolation (or brighter iris/lamp settings to take ambient light into account) for TV content (often sports) and one disctinct calibration for Film content, without FI / no ambient light.
  • The active calibration is now displayed on the OSD, after the MTR (Mastering Monitor Info).
  • No command is sent if the active calibration is already correct, unless new option “Send on every sync” is selected.
  • Added support for testing Min_Brightness in HDR Metadata. Some might want to use different curves according to Min_Brightness rather than Max_Brightness/Max_CLL.
  • We now have four different modes to handle HDR10 (auto, semi-auto, ignore metadata and custom, see below).
  • IR commands to select the HDR10-mode, as well as enabling/disabling the JVC Macro feature, so that we can easily switch using irule/Harmony etc between fast mode (when testing) and slow mode (for the family).

New in V3.0
  • Added support for three HDR10 custom curves (for content up to 1100nits, 2200nits and 4000nits). The auto algo only handles two curves (1K and 4K), which is sufficient in most cases (that’s what I use personally), but the custom tab now handles three curves by default (1K, 2K and 4K) which offers a marginally more progressive implementation.
  • I’m providing three new sets of completely redesigned curves. All these curves are significantly brighter, especially in the low end, and they handle highlights differently. You now get: 1 set for Dolby Cinema Emulation (107nits), which should be good for users with a peakY of 95-115nits. One set for Brightness Challenged Users (85nits), which should be good for users with a PeakY of 75-95nits. And one set for Enhanced Cinematic Experience (120nits), which should be good for users with a PeakY of 110-130nits. Note: These DCE, BCU and ECE sets are NOT custom curves. Custom curves are designed by a competent calibrator and adjusted to your environment, set-up and personal taste as there is no standard for HDR10 for projectors. However, these generic, low-res curves (11 control points instead of 256) should cover the needs of a wide range of users and give decent results for the most common set-ups. The low-res aspect doesn’t mean that the picture resolution is lower, only that the control points in the gamma curve are not as precise. There is little to no difference visually between a hi-res and a lo-res curve, provided the targets are right for your environment. If you want better quality or true custom curves, please hire a competent calibrator (or learn to do it yourself using the available tools and guides) before ruling out custom curves. You haven’t tried custom curves unless you’ve adjusted your PeakY precisely to the target of one of the included sets. All the curves use a bbi of 0 and a bbo of 0.004 (brightness needs to be adjusted to resolve down to level 68).
  • The Automatic Algo is back to testing content according to Max_Brightness and Max_CLL. Min_Brightness isn’t tested by default, but it’s still there if you want to use it in the custom tab.

New in V3.1
  • I created a new set of curves following BT-2390 in the low-end (5-20% white) for the same 86nits (BCU), 107nits (DCE) and 120nits (ECE) targets as the standard curves. This enhances shadow details, which might be desirable if there is a bit of ambient light in the room or with darker films. Although it shouldn’t raise the black floor or lower the native/dynamic contrast, it can reduce the apparent contrast (near black is further from black) so for now I’m keeping both sets (standard and BT-2390). [EDIT: see this post for an update on this: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...#post55647982]]

I attach a few screenshots. The included curves have to be imported with the JVC Autocal software. No Spyder necessary.

Please read the PDF in the ZIP before asking any questions. I won't reply to questions already answered in the PDF .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	JVC_OSD.JPG
Views:	627
Size:	589.9 KB
ID:	2337844   Click image for larger version

Name:	JVC Macro Auto Tab.PNG
Views:	536
Size:	34.4 KB
ID:	2355390   Click image for larger version

Name:	JVC Macro Custom Tab.PNG
Views:	420
Size:	36.0 KB
ID:	2355392  
Attached Files
File Type: zip Vertex JVC Macro Feature V3.1 User Guide.zip (633.0 KB, 826 views)
johng, nathan_h, stevenjw and 12 others like this.

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

Last edited by Manni01; 02-19-2018 at 10:27 AM.
Manni01 is online now  
post #27911 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:49 AM
Advanced Member
 
mustang5o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Somewhere in middle America.
Posts: 770
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Well they haven't actually improved the performance at all since the x00 line. They "corrected" the specifications, but haven't improved anything. Even e-Shift 5 on the latest models is a mixed bag apparently.



I really wish I could game on my RS600, but the lag is terrible and just ruins everything



[/B]It does, the top models have had that for years.



This is probably the best one, the HDFury threads are a mess of people having connection problems.
Thanks. I'll do more research on HDFury and consider the x750. Although your comment about gaming makes me thing I might to focus on 2017+ models.

"Like a Ninja, only better!"

Current HT Room Build
mustang5o is offline  
post #27912 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larryfl View Post
hi all,

this thread is amazing with all the information but can someone tell me how the hdfury will help and how hard to setup/program etc...

I have no problem purchasing one if there will are a real perceived benefit...just not really sure what it will mean to me as the thread is a little bit information overload

I have a Marantz 8802 along with Roku and appletv4k both of which support HDR and using a jvc rs600

thanks
On this generation of projectors, RS500/600, the Fury products give you (these are the main features, not ALL the features):

1) Don't trigger Gamma D. What does this mean? When playing back an HDR source, this generation of JVC goes into an HDR mode called Gamma D. This mode is NOT a correct gamma for HDR, but it was a "best guess" when JVC created these projectors. The next two generations (the 520/620 and the 540/640) have a better gamma for HDR. Not perfect, but good enough that most people won't notice they are missing anything. With Gamma D, everyone notices things look like crap. The solution: Buy an HD Fury product and trick the JVC by not letting it know it's getting an HDR signal..... and create a CUSTOM gamma for HDR, which you manually select when playing an HDR source.

(If you get the latest Fury product, the Vertex, you can also have the Vertex switch the JVC gamma automatically for you -- but if you are on a budget, a used Linker can do most of what you need other than this auto switching, for 1/3 the price on the used market.)

2) Enable dynamic iris. What does this mean? The JVC, when going into HDR/Gamma D mode, disables the dynamic iris. By using a Fury product, you can "trick" the JVC into using the dynamic iris in HDR mode (because you are not going into Gamma D but into your custom curves mode). Most people really like this. I use it this way too much of the time, but I'm not sure it makes a huge difference in my setup - but my peak brightness in HDR mode is only about 80 nits, so that may mean I don't really have significantly elevated black levels to begin with....

NOTE: You do NOT need any FURY product in order to use a Custom HDR Gamma, but you will have to manually select your custom gamma each time the signal changes because without a Fury the JVC will switch to Gamma D (RS500 generation) at first when getting an HDR signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang5o View Post
I was leaning towards the x750 especially if I can get them to drop the price a bit more. However, does the x750 support increased color space? I wasn't sure if that was supported until 2017 mid and upper end models. If the x750 does support the full DCI P3 (I know none of the entry level models do) then that really pushes me that direction.
There are three levels each year. Since at least the RS500 generation, the middle and top models have supported a much wider color space than the bottom level -- ie, essentially all of P3-DCI.

Quote:
Of course, that makes sense. If I could find a NIB x750 or x770 for a really good price I might consider that. Again, I need to figure out my priorities and all. I think seeing these two available now is making me want to upgrade the projector. Which will accelerate everything else I need to do .
Frankly, when putting a room together, I would wait and get the projector and receiver last. Screen, seating, acoustic treatment, and everything else should be in place ..... and then the projector and receiver. Why? Because it is a motivating factor and because you can save lots of money with the price decreases that happen while you are getting everything else put together.

Quote:
Can you point me to some threads on the Fury products and the people mentioned here who help make them work great with the JVC's? Lots of reading to do I'm sure. I wonder how much they can help out the entry level JVC's?
Summarized above.

Quote:
I'm actually trying to budget in a meter and calibration software myself (been studying it off and on for a couple of years now). Probably one of the ChromaPure packages with EyeOne Pro2 and Display 3. Considering I could probably use a real calibration (instead of DNice settings) on my 2 plasmas (ZT60, 500M) it would be worth it for me to get into calibrating my own stuff. Any threads on these custom gamma settings or are they buried in the owners threads?
There is a whole JVC autocal thread which covers the basic use of the JVC autocal software (which requires a Spyder meter). https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...500-rs600.html

Calibrating a JVC is a multistep process for best results, roughly:

1. Autocal process (using JVC software and correct Spyder meter) to get a good baseline.
2. Touch up calibration process, using something like HCFR, Calman, etc with a better meter like a ColorMunki.
3. Custom gamma process, to create a custom gamma curve to replace/supercede the GammaD curve (RS500 generation). Later generations have a much better HDR gamma built in, but can still benefit from a custom curve.

If you are game to go down the calibration rabbit hole, more power to you! It's not for the faint of heart, but it's like learning to do work on your own car -- a sense of empowerment, some saved money, a steep learning curve but it is possible to learn, etc etc.
ScottAvery and Manni01 like this.

Last edited by nathan_h; 12-31-2017 at 08:18 AM.
nathan_h is offline  
post #27913 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 08:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
mustang5o's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Somewhere in middle America.
Posts: 770
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
On this generation of projectors, RS500/600, the Fury products give you (these are the main features, not ALL the features):

1) Don't trigger Gamma D. What does this mean? When playing back an HDR source, this generation of JVC goes into an HDR mode called Gamma D. This mode is NOT a correct gamma for HDR, but it was a "best guess" when JVC created these projectors. The next two generations (the 520/620 and the 540/640) have a better gamma for HDR. Not perfect, but good enough that most people won't notice they are missing anything. With Gamma D, everyone notices things look like crap. The solution: Buy an HD Fury product and trick the JVC by not letting it know it's getting an HDR signal..... and create a CUSTOM gamma for HDR, which you manually select when playing an HDR source.

(If you get the latest Fury product, the Vertex, you can also have the Vertex switch the JVC gamma automatically for you -- but if you are on a budget, a used Linker can do most of what you need other than this auto switching, for 1/3 the price on the used market.)

2) Enable dynamic iris. What does this mean? The JVC, when going into HDR/Gamma D mode, disables the dynamic iris. By using a Fury product, you can "trick" the JVC into using the dynamic iris in HDR mode (because you are not going into Gamma D but into your custom curves mode). Most people really like this. I use it this way too much of the time, but I'm not sure it makes a huge difference in my setup - but my peak brightness in HDR mode is only about 80 nits, so that may mean I don't really have significantly elevated black levels to begin with....

There are three levels each year. Since at least the RS500 generation, the middle and top models have supported a much wider color space than the bottom level -- ie, essentially all of P3-DCI.

Frankly, when putting a room together, I would wait and get the projector and receiver last. Screen, seating, acoustic treatment, and everything else should be in place ..... and then the projector and receiver. Why? Because it is a motivating factor and because you can save lots of money with the price decreases that happen while you are getting everything else put together.

There is a whole JVC autocal thread which covers the basic use of the JVC autocal software (which requires a Spyder meter). https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...500-rs600.html

Calibrating a JVC is a multistep process for best results, roughly:

1. Autocal process (using JVC software and correct Spyder meter) to get a good baseline.
2. Touch up calibration process, using something like HCFR, Calman, etc with a better meter like a ColorMunki.
3. Custom gamma process, to create a custom gamma curve to replace/supercede the GammaD curve (RS500 generation). Later generations have a much better HDR gamma built in, but can still benefit from a custom curve.

If you are game to go down the calibration rabbit hole, more power to you! It's not for the faint of heart, but it's like learning to do work on your own car -- a sense of empowerment, some saved money, a steep learning curve but it is possible to learn, etc etc.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH! This is great information. Now that I know all of this I am either going to hold off on projector or buy the x570 and be happy for a while since the price is so good (plus I'm hoping I can still get a few $$$ out of my anamorphic lens). Seems better than buying a 2016 model and having gaming lag and GammaD issues. Then maybe I won't need a Vertex...well, I'll research if it can help out the X570 or other 2017+ models. Otherwise, money better used for newer gen projector.

The calibration info is great as well. Kind of reminds me when I got my Kuro 500m and did the DNice break in\settings. Next step was apply Turbe's patch to unlock ISF calibration and input those settings. Best would be a true calibration...well, best would probably be having DNice calibrate it but he never came to my area of the country. Maybe if I do go all in for calibration I'll calibrate the old Kuro (and Panny ZT60) just to see how much better I can get it. Plus, I'll need calibration practice.

"Like a Ninja, only better!"

Current HT Room Build
mustang5o is offline  
post #27914 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 08:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
What manufacturers like JVC don't realize is that for these flagship models, such support creates a strong brand loyalty. It's not an expense, it's an investment.

I've been a JVC fan (not fanboy) for ten years, and I still love their products, but if they don't change their policy the minute another brand offers a product that answers my needs better, I'll jump ship simply because of the way they treat their customers. There was no cost associated to fixing the gamma D issue, or re-enabling the DI in HDR. They could still do it if they didn't want their users to feel like they have given them the middle finger.

The only reason why I don't hold a grudge against JVC is because of HDFury. At least we can solve most of the software issues with a Vertex, and it's been fun to develop these solutions with them. But it shouldn't be that way. Proper ST2084, DI in HDR, this was near zero development cost for JVC and it should have been released to all users, as a f/w update, for free. Even HLG support wouldn't have been that much work and should have been offered.
Exactly. I am very impressed with JVC picture quality on RS500 except native Gamma D. Thanks to you and Arve its now watchable. It's an easy fix for JVC via firmware, instead they chose not to.

But I am not as forgiving as you are to JVC. After spending more than 6 1/2 grand on a projector, I still have spend ~$400 more. I am very pissed at JVC about this. This will be my first and last JVC product. Will never buy another JVC product ever.
vjforum is offline  
post #27915 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 08:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,950
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
NOTE: You do NOT need any FURY product in order to use a Custom HDR Gamma, but you will have to manually select your custom gamma each time the signal changes because without a Fury the JVC will switch to Gamma D (RS500 generation) at first when getting an HDR signal.
I tried watching Marco Polo (Dolby Vision) on an Apple TV 4K, and the projector switches back to Gamma D every few seconds (literally). Is this normal? Presumably it's the dynamic metadata associated with Dolby Vision?
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #27916 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
DV should not be a factor at all, since the ATV should detect that you can only support HDR10 and only output that (converted internally from DV).

Sounds like a handshake / cable issue which is causing a re-sync every few seconds.
nathan_h is offline  
post #27917 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 08:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 11
@Javs
@Manni01
I use Kodi DS player with madVR for all my UHDs with GTX1060 (MakeMKV and leaked keys). I don't have extensive collection. Wanted your help on this.

I don't pass HDR metadata to RS500 to avoid triggering Gamma D (Vertex is an option- I know, but want to avoid it). I still have to pick up remote and change picture mode to HDR. Is there any way in Kodi (or in windows) to detect 4k stream and trigger an event that can be picked up by eventghost (or something similar) to switch the user mode via IR or RS232? This will make it very simple for family.

I am not savvy in codes but am able to follow instructions.

And another question: If I don't pass HDR metadata to the projector, am I getting not getting HDR picture? In other words, is there a difference in picture when we send HDR metadata and don't (assuming we switch to HDR user mode with custom gamma in both cases manually).

Thanks

Last edited by vjforum; 12-31-2017 at 08:49 AM.
vjforum is offline  
post #27918 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 09:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,960
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2323 Post(s)
Liked: 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I tried watching Marco Polo (Dolby Vision) on an Apple TV 4K, and the projector switches back to Gamma D every few seconds (literally). Is this normal? Presumably it's the dynamic metadata associated with Dolby Vision?
The ATV4K is probably the only device in existence where this would be considered normal behavior when the JVC receives HDR10 content. Your choices to avoid this are likely to either set the ATV4K to output SDR, or to purchase an HDFury Vertex or Linker and have it disable the HDR metadata so the JVC does not switch to Gamma D.

If you read the PDF document in Manni's Vertex JVC Macro 2.0 post you will notice that the Vertex Macros now have an option to ignore the bogus HDR metadata from the ATV4K...

Ignore Metadata”, a mode that should be useful for those using an Apple TV or any device providing bogus HDR10 metadata...

Even though i have an iPhone, an iPad, and a Mac, I decided early on to skip this version of the ATV.
Mike_WI likes this.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral

Last edited by claw; 12-31-2017 at 10:06 AM.
claw is online now  
post #27919 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 10:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
That bogus meta data was not about dynamic changes but about Apple previously choosing a blanket maxcll number for their converted hdr10 output, which has been fixed.
nathan_h is offline  
post #27920 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 10:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave Vaughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vacaville, CA
Posts: 5,990
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1469 Post(s)
Liked: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Here is the post in the Vertex thread where you can download it:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-vid...l#post55407672

I attach my pack with two Dolby Cinema Emulation curves and an HLG curve and so you can make use of it.

Here are the main improvements from V1.0
  • Added support for x.v.color to the existing support for 3D, SDR and HDR
  • Added support for HLG BT2100 (two modes, HLG-Rec709 and HLG-BT2020)
  • Added support for SDR BT2020.
  • Added support for HDR-Rec709.
  • Added support for two SDR Rec-709 modes instead of one. One for 50-60i and one for 23-60p. That way, we can select a specific calibration with frame interpolation (or brighter iris/lamp settings to take ambient light into account) for TV content (often sports) and one disctinct calibration for Film content, without FI / no ambient light.
  • The active calibration is now displayed on the OSD, after the MTR (Mastering Monitor Info).
  • No command is sent if the active calibration is already correct, unless new option “Send on every sync” is selected.
  • Added support for testing Min_Brightness in HDR Metadata. Some might want to use different curves according to Min_Brightness rather than Max_Brightness/Max_CLL.
  • We now have four different modes to handle HDR10 (auto, semi-auto, ignore metadata and custom, see below).
Improvements requested but not added yet:
  • To speed things up further, we could assign one or more "ignore" signal/metadata, so that we can avoid switching calibrations when going back to the source menu. For example, the UB900 defaults to 4K50 8 bits HDR rec-709 (4K60 8bits HDR rec-709 in the US). The chances for actual content being in that format are small, at least for UHD Bluray (it might be more frequent with streaming), so it would be great if we could have the option to ignore such “menu” content when detected.
  • IR commands to select the HDR10-mode, as well as enabling/disabling the JVC Macro feature, so that we can easily switch using irule/Harmony etc between fast mode (when testing) and slow mode (for the family).
  • Display the JVC Info on the Audio Info line when the Audio Info is unchecked in the GUI.
  • Display the gamma info (ST2084, BT2100/HLG) on the GUI, as it is already present on the OSD.

Hopefully some of the above will make it into the final version, which should be available within the next few days.

I attach a few screenshots. The included curves have to be imported with the JVC Autocal software. No Spyder necessary. They are designed for a peak white of 106nits, so should work well in any setup with 100-120nits peak brightness.

Please read the PDF in the ZIP before asking any questions. I won't reply to questions answered in the PDF .

Happy New Year everyone!
Manni,

You are the man!
nathan_h, tjenkins95 and Manni01 like this.

David Vaughn Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)
Dave Vaughn is offline  
post #27921 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 11:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,960
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2323 Post(s)
Liked: 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
That bogus meta data was not about dynamic changes but about Apple previously choosing a blanket maxcll number for their converted hdr10 output, which has been fixed.
But it would seem that the ATV4K is changing something with the HDR metadata that triggers the JVC to reset to Gamma D. I don't know what Apple does when converting DV to HDR10 but perhaps it changes HDR10 metadata on a scene by scene basis according to the current DV values?

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral
claw is online now  
post #27922 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 04:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
Possible but I’m not seeing that on mine. I have the latest production firmware/OS.

This sounds like the ATV is maxing out the cable capabilities. It’s quite possible to send way more bandwidth than needed with an ATV, iirc up to 60hz 444, and cause intermittent sync problems/re syncs if one is pushing the limits of one's cabling.

Apple does crazy stuff but they don’t seem to be trying to pretend hdr10 is hdr10+.
nathan_h is offline  
post #27923 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 04:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
claw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: L'Etoile du Nord
Posts: 2,960
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2323 Post(s)
Liked: 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Here are the main improvements from V1.0
  • Added support for x.v.color to the existing support for 3D, SDR and HDR
  • Added support for HLG BT2100 (two modes, HLG-Rec709 and HLG-BT2020)
  • Added support for SDR BT2020.
  • Added support for HDR-Rec709.
  • Added support for two SDR Rec-709 modes instead of one. One for 50-60i and one for 23-60p. That way, we can select a specific calibration with frame interpolation (or brighter iris/lamp settings to take ambient light into account) for TV content (often sports) and one disctinct calibration for Film content, without FI / no ambient light.
  • The active calibration is now displayed on the OSD, after the MTR (Mastering Monitor Info).
  • No command is sent if the active calibration is already correct, unless new option “Send on every sync” is selected.
  • Added support for testing Min_Brightness in HDR Metadata. Some might want to use different curves according to Min_Brightness rather than Max_Brightness/Max_CLL.
  • We now have four different modes to handle HDR10 (auto, semi-auto, ignore metadata and custom, see below).

Please read the PDF in the ZIP before asking any questions. I won't reply to questions answered in the PDF .
The Vertex OSD seems to always report JVC:HDR10-DC4K when in Semi-Automatic or Custom Mode; even when it would have reported DC1K in Automatic mode.. This is probably a bug in the Vertex OSD code where it holds DC4K as a default value instead of none. I don't think it should report any JVC HDR10 OSD name in these modes if it can't report the JVC User Mode activated according to the Custom rules.

Happy to report that the macros are switching to my SDR2020 user mode for Directv HD channels and my HLG BT2020 user mode for Directv 4K channels as I hoped.

CJ
JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral

Last edited by claw; 12-31-2017 at 04:48 PM.
claw is online now  
post #27924 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 05:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,950
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Possible but I’m not seeing that on mine. I have the latest production firmware/OS.

This sounds like the ATV is maxing out the cable capabilities. It’s quite possible to send way more bandwidth than needed with an ATV, iirc up to 60hz 444, and cause intermittent sync problems/re syncs if one is pushing the limits of one's cabling.
I’ve set up the ATV to not use native resolution and frame rate, as I would rather sacrifice the picture quality than all the long resync delays.

I only notice the issue with shows marked as Dolby Visision, not those marked as Ultra HD 4K.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #27925 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 05:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 334 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5482 Post(s)
Liked: 5694
Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
The Vertex OSD seems to always report JVC:HDR10-DC4K when in Semi-Automatic or Custom Mode; even when it would have reported DC1K in Automatic mode.. This is probably a bug in the Vertex OSD code where it holds DC4K as a default value instead of none. I don't think it should report any JVC HDR10 OSD name in these modes if it can't report the JVC User Mode activated according to the Custom rules.

Happy to report that the macros are switching to my SDR2020 user mode for Directv HD channels and my HLG BT2020 user mode for Directv 4K channels as I hoped.
Glad to hear that your SD2020 and HLG modes are working well.

I've reported the OSD issue with semi-auto and custom a few days ago, along with a few minor issues as I mentioned at the time, such as the location of the "Send all changes" button on the custom tab, which is a bit confusing as it's between the last else and the action to be taken. It looks like these minor issues haven't been fixed yet, but hopefully they will be in the proper release to come in a few days.

The OSD should display the preset name for HDR10 calibrations in semi-auto and custom modes. Friendly names are only for Auto and for non-HDR10 calibrations in semi-auto, as indicated in the guide.

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
Manni01 is online now  
post #27926 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 06:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I’ve set up the ATV to not use native resolution and frame rate, as I would rather sacrifice the picture quality than all the long resync delays.

I only notice the issue with shows marked as Dolby Visision, not those marked as Ultra HD 4K.
Forced output everything to 4K HDR? I’m not familiar with that. (I hate running HDR gamma for SDR content.)

Sounds like their DV conversion is doing something interesting,, maxing out the cable bandwidth and triggering the re-syncs.
nathan_h is offline  
post #27927 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,950
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Forced output everything to 4K HDR? I’m not familiar with that. (I hate running HDR gamma for SDR content.)
I use that setting for HDR contents. For SDR contents I would set the video option to SDR.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #27928 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 07:57 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,083
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2455 Post(s)
Liked: 1324
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
...

Frankly, when putting a room together, I would wait and get the projector and receiver last. Screen, seating, acoustic treatment, and everything else should be in place ..... and then the projector and receiver. Why? Because it is a motivating factor and because you can save lots of money with the price decreases that happen while you are getting everything else put together.

...
There was a lot of good info in your post, the only thing is I would generally suggest people buy the projector first and the screen last if they are somewhat new to projectors.

Make sure they get a feel for exactly how high they want to mount it from the floor, and how big of a screen they need / want first.

IT's also a lot easier to return a projector than it is to exchange a screen.

**Updated Projector Calculator Released NOV 2017**
-- www.webprojectorcalculator.com --
coderguy is offline  
post #27929 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 08:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stevenjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,946
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 641 Post(s)
Liked: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjforum View Post
Exactly. I am very impressed with JVC picture quality on RS500 except native Gamma D. Thanks to you and Arve its now watchable. It's an easy fix for JVC via firmware, instead they chose not to.

But I am not as forgiving as you are to JVC. After spending more than 6 1/2 grand on a projector, I still have spend ~$400 more. I am very pissed at JVC about this. This will be my first and last JVC product. Will never buy another JVC product ever.
Well, that's pretty foolish as JVC has been known for producing the best contrast and best value in projectors for the money (especially AVS pre-orders). You state that you're very impressed with the PQ on the RS500. What do you think will match it down the road at a reasonable price? You spent close to $2K more than I did for an RS500, so I'd say that's your real problem. Spending less than 10% more for a Vertex isn't breaking the bank really and you don't need a Vertex to get DI and non-Gamma D selection. A Linker will do just fine and is much less than $400, especially used. I sold mine for $100 plus shipping.

But hey, it's your money so go ahead and never buy another JVC for lack of f/w updates. As for me, I'll never buy another Sony, but I think my reason (faulty/deteriorating panels resulting in significantly elevated blacks) makes much more sense for staying away from a projector company.
Jive Turkey and DavidHir like this.

...Steve
"Opinions are like orgasms… mine matters most and I really don’t care if you have one or not." ;)
 
My HT gear
stevenjw is offline  
post #27930 of 32133 Old 12-31-2017, 10:45 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
What do you think will match it down the road at a reasonable price? You spent close to $2K more than I did for an RS500, so I'd say that's your real problem.
I believe that if you're paying premium for a product, it's expected that you'll receive premium service (Pic quality should be a minimum requirement in this "High end" segment).

Yes, 4 grand is less than 6, but its still a lot of money, and even though buying RS500 from AVScience (yes I did) wasn't even close to breaking my bank, I still believe in value for money. If you're ok spending more than 4 grand and not minding spending even more to get proper functionality, then there is no point in discussing. As you said, its your money...
vjforum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
jvc-rs500u synch/display issue? , RS600

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off