Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 936 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28051 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
This will work for basic measurements to track your lamp over time.

https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter-LX13...dp/B005A0ETXY/

For those looking for something more accurate the CA813 is an old forum favorite and surprisingly close to my lab calibrated Minolta T10 which is much more expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/AEMC-CA813-Fu...dp/B008S0AHSY/

Nice one, thank you!
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post #28052 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 02:57 PM
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The best practice has been to:

Use autocal with a good Spyder meter (but even a inaccurate one gets corrected in the next step)

Use a separate package and better meter to do final corrections, like Calman + the sky is the limit

That gets you good SDR

Then, create a custom gamma curve for HDR and when watching HDR manually select that gamma curve

Many people get a device from HDFury to prevent needing to manually de-select Gamma D when watching HDR, and to re-enable the dynamic iris when watching HDR



Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post
I have been off the forums for some time and apologize if answers are readily available in a search but the thread had grown quit a bit since I was last active on the forums.

I finally upgraded to the Oppo UDP-203 and want to play some 4K content on my RS500 and need to re-think my connections.

The previous Oppo BDP-103 had HDMI 1 going to an Onkyo PR-SC5508 and HDMI routed through a Lumagen 2020 and on to the JVC RS500.

I will miss the ChromaPure Auto calibration with the Lumagen and am not sure I want to make the investment in a Radiance Pro 4240 just yet.

For now, I will keep the Lumagen for Comcast Cable and connect the Oppo UDP-203 HDMI 2 directly to the RS500 HDMI in 2.

Is that all I need? Any recommended setting on the Oppo or JVC?

Should I consider the JVC auto calibration?

How much benefit would the Lumagen Pro 4240 add? I expect I will be upgrading my projector in the next year or so. I hope I can resist the urge to pick up a Lumagen Pro.

Thank you.
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post #28053 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
None, the Oppo doesn't respond to EDID like the Panasonic does. "Strip Metadata" is the only way (IIRC) to get SDR2020 with an Oppo.



So from the top, you don't need a Linker/Vertex to use HDR with a custom curve, so I'd perhaps try that first since it's "Free", only costs you time. A Vertex/Linker can remove the HDR metadata from the video going to the projector, this has two effects:
It prevents the JVC from auto selecting Gamma D
It prevents the JVC from disabling the DI.

So yes, with a Vertex/Linker you can have the DI with HDR, that's actually why a lot of us got Linkers to begin with. Though at this point I'd recommend the Vertex for it's awesome macro features that auto-select the right user mode based on content metadata. Though I bet you can find a used Linker, quite a few of us have spares now that we've upgraded to Vertices that we'd be willing to part with.



You don't need a Spyder to make your own curve, that's purely a software thing (though you will eventually need the Spyder to get everything dialed in). Zombie might have a curve that will work for you, but you're sort of in a small group with a really bright image with that HP.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question.

So to clarify, since I have the Oppo I can’t use a linker to have DI with HDR. If I wanted that, I would need to get the Panasonic with a linker combo to have DI with HDR? So if I want DI, my only option is SDR2020 by setting the Oppo to strip the metadata.
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post #28054 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question.

So to clarify, since I have the Oppo I can’t use a linker to have DI with HDR. If I wanted that, I would need to get the Panasonic with a linker combo to have DI with HDR? So if I want DI, my only option is SDR2020 by setting the Oppo to strip the metadata.
That's not correct,

I have an Oppo 203 and a Panny UB900
and an HDFury Integral and a Vertex.
JVC X750 (RS500)

The Linker or Vertex can keep the JVC from Gamma D reset and enable the Dynamic Iris with HDR content with either player.

Only the Panasonic properly re-maps the colors for HDR->SDR BT.2020 conversion after the Linker/Integral/Vertex removes the "Flag" for HDR

The Oppo's strip meta-data function attempts to do the same thing, but after almost a year now,
still comes up short on re-mapping the colors in SDR BT.2020 mode.

The Good news is, with a custom gamma curve for HDR, SDR conversion is history for me, and many other JVC users.

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post #28055 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
That's not correct,

I have an Oppo 203 and a Panny UB900
and an HDFury Integral and a Vertex.
JVC X750 (RS500)

The Linker or Vertex can keep the JVC from Gamma D reset and enable the Dynamic Iris with HDR content with either player.

Only the Panasonic properly re-maps the colors for HDR->SDR BT.2020 conversion after the Linker/Integral/Vertex removes the "Flag" for HDR

The Oppo's strip meta-data function attempts to do the same thing, but after almost a year now,
still comes up short on re-mapping the colors in SDR BT.2020 mode.

The Good news is, with a custom gamma curve for HDR, SDR conversion is history for me, and many other JVC users.
Awesome thank you! So a Oppo with a Linker/Vertex and a custom gamma curve, I can have DI and HDR BT.2020 without resetting the gamma each time and no SRD conversion. If this is my only goal, then the Linker will work fine? The reason for the Vertex over the linker would be?

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post #28056 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Awesome thank you! So a Oppo with a Linker/Vertex and a custom gamma curve, I can have DI and HDR BT.2020 without resetting the gamma each time and no SRD conversion. If this is my only goal, then the Linker will work fine? The reason for the Vertex over the linker would be?
The Vertex can interface with the JVC via RS232 and automatically select the right gamma curve for the content that you are feeding it. Manni has a full explanation of this earlier in the thread (less than a week ago).
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post #28057 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
The Vertex can interface with the JVC via RS232 and automatically select the right gamma curve for the content that you are feeding it. Manni has a full explanation of this earlier in the thread (less than a week ago).
Cool and this would coincide if you had multiple custom curves? The vertex would auto select the appropriate curve?
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post #28058 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Awesome thank you! So a Oppo with a Linker/Vertex, custom gamma curve, we can have DI, HDR BT.2020 without resetting the gamma each tome and no SRD conversion. If this is my only goal, then the Linker will work fine? The reason for the Vertex would be?
Yes the Linker is all you need for that.

The Vertex adds RS232 control if you want to setup auto select of different user memory slots on your JVC for:
2D SDR Rec.709, 3D SDR Rec.709, Custom Gamma for HDR BT.2020 for 1000 NIT titles, Custom Gamma HDR BT.2020 for 4000 NIT titles.

With a Linker you have to select those manually (not a big deal)

The Vertex also features an OLED read-out of incoming signal info right on the unit,
...and an OSD that shows up on your screen if you prefer...





I also have the GoBlue option to go with my Vertex controller app on my android smartphone



...as a former HDFury customer (Integral) I was eligible for a $150 discount on a Vertex Pre-Order
making it just about the price of the Linker, So that was a no-brainer.

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post #28059 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
Yes the Linker is all you need for that.

The Vertex adds RS232 control if you want to setup auto select of different user memory slots on your JVC for:
2D SDR Rec.709, 3D SDR Rec.709, Custom Gamma for HDR BT.2020 for 1000 NIT titles, Custom Gamma HDR BT.2020 for 4000 NIT titles.

With a Linker you have to select those manually (not a big deal)

The Vertex also features an OLED read-out of incoming signal info right on the unit,
...and an OSD that shows up on your screen if you prefer...





I also have the GoBlue option to go with my Vertex controller app on my android smartphone



...as a former HDFury customer (Integral) I was giving a $150 discount on a Vertex Pre-Order
making it just about the price of the Linker, So that was a no-brainer.
Thank you for that thorough explanation! That makes a lot of sense. What resource are people using to figure out how the movie was mastered in terms of NIT level?
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post #28060 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 06:36 PM
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Thank you for that thorough explanation! That makes a lot of sense. What resource are people using to figure out how the movie was mastered in terms of NIT level?
...another benefit of the Vertex

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post #28061 of 31822 Old 01-06-2018, 09:45 PM
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That’s just the mastering monitor specs. Rather, Maxcll is how bright the content gets -- and if one really wants to use multiple custom curves, maxcll is the figure to use to differentiate among them, not the capabilities of the mastering monitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Thank you for that thorough explanation! That makes a lot of sense. What resource are people using to figure out how the movie was mastered in terms of NIT level?
I'd say, Don't worry about it for now. It's very rare that it is needed/wanted, so it's certainly okay to get everything going and see how you like it, without multiple curves based on different peak brightness values.
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950 vs 790

Folks...I have a good opportunity to move into a new 790 from my 950...is that an upgrade or a downgrade or a lateral move? Is hdr out of the box acceptable or will I still need to create Arve curves? Thanks folks.

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post #28063 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 05:18 AM
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Custom Curves Quick DIY

This guide encompasses every step you need to load custom curves onto your projector and get rocking with 4K HDR. All of this is reversible and none of it is permanent, so no worries. A custom curve will significantly increase the quality of your HDR content and it only takes about 30 minutes to follow the instructions below for the first time.

In step 3 I link to a couple different curves on this forum to download. Feel free to choose your own if you find one, there is no harm in trying different curves, the projector has 3 slots for custom curves and you can overwrite them as many times as you want. You can also make your own but that process is a bit different. More information here. If you are fresh to 4K now is the time to replace your HDMI cables or you will probably have problems, more information here. I have links to posts in my sig for a reason, look at them.

This is the quick and dirty guide and will get you what you want, quickly:

1) This is the JVC Calibration Software you want to import premade gamma curves, you can also use it later to do color calibration if you want. Install this software on a PC connected to the same network as your projector. Do this first. Connect your projector to your network, check the IP address of your projector in the settings menu and enter it into the settings screen (the gear) on the software and click 'check' to verify connection. (The PDF in step 4 explains this in more detail if you need it)

2) Download the BT2020 color profile from here. Its under step 2. (You might already have this loaded on your projector)

3) Download and try some curves from this post (download via his Dropbox link) (Thanks Javs) or this post (Thanks Manni) or this post (Thanks Dominic). Full credit to Javs, Manni and Dominic on these curves, I did not make them, they did. (Or feel free to use any other curve you find on the forum)

4) Use these Import Procedure directions to load the BT2020 profile you downloaded in step 2.

5) Use the same process as step 4 to load the custom gamma curve, but you select 'gamma' from the pull-down menu on the import/export screen instead of 'color profile'. If you really want brightness, I'd start with the "Javs 1200nit V3" gamma curve inside the "Autocal Versions" folder in his dropbox link and/or Manni's "Manni-HDR10-BC1K" gamma curve in his zip folder into and/or "Gamma3_30_Adjusted" into Custom 3 from Dominic. (Or feel free to use any other curve you find on the forum and load them to whichever custom slot you choose)

3/4/5 alternate) You can also load a curve or two using the ARVE tool and JAVS curves. This process is a bit more complicated but his recent V3 curves are very good. Curves and steps here. Javs has also provided the regular curves to import in step 4 but the Arve tool method will yield a slightly better result if you like his curves.

6) Okay all done on the PC for now. Go to your projector and stick in a 4K disc get it loaded up so the movie is playing.

7) Now we're going to set up your picture settings for HDR movies on your projector. Press a User Mode on the remote (I have a few different profiles set up so my User 1 is for HD, User 2 is for HDR and User 3 is for 3D). Choose and press a user mode that makes sense to you, then go into the projector Picture Adjust Menu and change the color profile to BT.2020. Change Gamma to Custom 1 (or where you loaded the custom gamma from step 5), then right below that in the gamma screen, change correction value to Import. (Very important to select Import, otherwise it won't load the profile you imported in step 5). I'd also suggest turning on High Lamp, CMD Off, Auto Iris off, Iris Manual on 0 and Clear Black Low. (Iris, CMD & Clear Black is a preference though).

8) Going forward, once you put in a 4K movie, all you need to do is choose that user mode and it will recall all the settings from step 7. Then once the movie is actually playing, you just need to hit the gamma button to change from Gamma D to Custom 1 (the projector will always default to Gamma D). You can also rename the Picture Mode from "User 1, 2 or 3" to "HDR" or something to make it easier for you.

That's it. Basically, in recap, load in the BT2020 and custom gamma profile with the software, choose a user mode on the remote and select the BT2020 and custom gamma profiles.

All this will take about 20-30 minutes the first time. Its pretty quick. You can try different gamma curves in slot 2 & 3 also and overwrite them all as you see fit. Once you get the hang of it you will only spend like 2 minutes loading a gamma profile. REMEMBER, be CERTAIN the gamma correction value is set to IMPORT on the projector, otherwise it's just gamma normal.


Last edited by Dreamliner; 03-26-2018 at 09:40 AM.
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post #28064 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post
Awesome thank you! So a Oppo with a Linker/Vertex and a custom gamma curve, I can have DI and HDR BT.2020 without resetting the gamma each time and no SRD conversion. If this is my only goal, then the Linker will work fine? The reason for the Vertex over the linker would be?
If you have the Linker, you will still need to manually select the gamma based on whether you are watching HDR or SDR. But it won't auto switch to the WRONG gamma (Gamma D) on you when starting up a new HDR source, which happens when you don't have the Linker.

With the Vertex, it can be programmed to switch gamma for you, so you don't even need to manually select HDR versus SDR. The down side here is that many HDR sources like Blu-Ray, Apple TV, etc, have SDR menus and HDR content, so you can cycle through these a few times while watching some content and they will trigger a gamma change on the projector each time -- and if like many people you will use High Lamp for HDR and Low Lamp for SDR this will bounce you back and forth between lamp modes "too often" (in my opinion) since switching lamp modes is second only to completely power cycling the lamp in terms of wear and tear and stress on the lamp.

Manni has some good ideas about how to solve this concern. I am not sure if they are implemented in the latest firmware.
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post #28065 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Folks...I have a good opportunity to move into a new 790 from my 950...is that an upgrade or a downgrade or a lateral move? Is hdr out of the box acceptable or will I still need to create Arve curves? Thanks folks.
You should check out user reports about the RS540 and see if it sounds better than your RS500.

There are some features in the RS540 we should have seen implemented in the RS500 -- such as a "fix" to our out of the box gamma for HDR, enabling the DI for HDR content, etc. If you use CMD, it may be better. If you game, you'll have a lower latency mode.

By most accounts, while you would still benefit from a custom HDR gamma, it is not as critical as on the RS500.

But there may be other issues to contend with, as discussed in the thread about the RS540.

If I was buying new, today, I'd get the 540 over the 500. But after investing in calibration for my 500, and putting an HDFUry product in place, it would be tough to pay a premium for upgrading to a 540. I'd rather have a well calibrated RS500 with a custom HDR curve than an uncalibrated RS540 with the default JVC HDR gamma -- especially if the latter cost me an extra $1k or $2k or more.
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post #28066 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
You should check out user reports about the RS540 and see if it sounds better than your RS500.

There are some features in the RS540 we should have seen implemented in the RS500 -- such as a "fix" to our out of the box gamma for HDR, enabling the DI for HDR content, etc. If you use CMD, it may be better. If you game, you'll have a lower latency mode.

By most accounts, while you would still benefit from a custom HDR gamma, it is not as critical as on the RS500.

But there may be other issues to contend with, as discussed in the thread about the RS540.

If I was buying new, today, I'd get the 540 over the 500. But after investing in calibration for my 500, and putting an HDFUry product in place, it would be tough to pay a premium for upgrading to a 540. I'd rather have a well calibrated RS500 with a custom HDR curve than an uncalibrated RS540 with the default JVC HDR gamma -- especially if the latter cost me an extra $1k or $2k or more.
Great advice, BTW, I have an rs600,that’s why I was checking if it was a step backwards...

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post #28067 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 08:54 AM
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They are both in the same ballpark. Sample to sample variation, calibration, etc will make it impossible to guess ahead of time. I would say if the upgrade costs as much as flying Chad in for a custom calibration, I would choose to fly Chad in for a custom calibration instead of upgrading.
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post #28068 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 10:23 AM
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This might be a dumb question but i cant open the zip files with my computer. I assume i have to unzip them before i upload them.
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post #28069 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 12:45 PM
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Nits in 16:9 mode vs 2.35 mode

I have a 120” 2.35, 1.0 gain scope screen...I just finished watching Dunkirk, which looked absolutely drop dead gorgeous and defined, which I watched in 16:9 mode...the other day I measured my nits in 2.35 mode and was a little disappointed to see I only had 85...given how gorgeous and defined Dunkirk looked in 16:9 I decided to measure my nits...a whopping 130 nits in 16:9 mode (38 FL in 16:9 vs 25 FL in 2.35 mode). Does this sound right? I didn’t think 16:9 would produce that much more brightness...I’m assuming it’s simply because of the reduced screen size in 16:9 on my 2.35 scope screen?

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post #28070 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 02:44 PM
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Yes, it's screen size. That's why people with large screens struggle so much

You seem to have gotten a little more gain that the math would suggest based on image area, but maybe that's because of zoom range, diffraction, etc.
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post #28071 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
I have a 120” 2.35, 1.0 gain scope screen...I just finished watching Dunkirk, which looked absolutely drop dead gorgeous and defined, which I watched in 16:9 mode...the other day I measured my nits in 2.35 mode and was a little disappointed to see I only had 85...given how gorgeous and defined Dunkirk looked in 16:9 I decided to measure my nits...a whopping 130 nits in 16:9 mode (38 FL in 16:9 vs 25 FL in 2.35 mode). Does this sound right? I didn’t think 16:9 would produce that much more brightness...I’m assuming it’s simply because of the reduced screen size in 16:9 on my 2.35 scope screen?
Dunno, that sounds pretty odd, maybe its correct, wouldn't have thought there would be that significant of a difference.

btw which curves are you using?

I agree the UHD looks completely stunning, definitely one of the absolute best UHD discs.

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post #28072 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
I have a 120” 2.35, 1.0 gain scope screen...I just finished watching Dunkirk, which looked absolutely drop dead gorgeous and defined, which I watched in 16:9 mode...the other day I measured my nits in 2.35 mode and was a little disappointed to see I only had 85...given how gorgeous and defined Dunkirk looked in 16:9 I decided to measure my nits...a whopping 130 nits in 16:9 mode (38 FL in 16:9 vs 25 FL in 2.35 mode). Does this sound right? I didn’t think 16:9 would produce that much more brightness...I’m assuming it’s simply because of the reduced screen size in 16:9 on my 2.35 scope screen?
That's consistent with my readings. I have a 115" 2.35, 1.1 gain scope screen, and get 140 nits in the 16:9 mode (which is only about 92" diagonal).
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post #28073 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by asharma View Post
I have a 120? 2.35, 1.0 gain scope screen...I just finished watching Dunkirk, which looked absolutely drop dead gorgeous and defined, which I watched in 16:9 mode...the other day I measured my nits in 2.35 mode and was a little disappointed to see I only had 85...given how gorgeous and defined Dunkirk looked in 16:9 I decided to measure my nits...a whopping 130 nits in 16:9 mode (38 FL in 16:9 vs 25 FL in 2.35 mode). Does this sound right? I didn?t think 16:9 would produce that much more brightness...I?m assuming it?s simply because of the reduced screen size in 16:9 on my 2.35 scope screen?
Meter aside, what did you think of the way Dunkirk looked in 2.35:1 mode?

Dunkirk looks excellent on my 136” 2.35:1 screen. When I have trouble with a title, even zooming in to 80” doesn’t fix it, it just makes the lens light leak even more pronounced...

I’m not saying there isn’t a brightness difference with a smaller image, but would you honestly start watching 2.35:1/2.40:1 movies in 1.78:1 mode for the brightness difference you are actually seeing with your eyes?

Meters are great but eyeballs watch movies.

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post #28074 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Dunno, that sounds pretty odd, maybe its correct, wouldn't have thought there would be that significant of a difference.

btw which curves are you using?

I agree the UHD looks completely stunning, definitely one of the absolute best UHD discs.
I’m using your 80 nit curve...I didn’t see any difference between that and your 100 nit curve

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post #28075 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:29 PM
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Meter aside, what did you think of the way Dunkirk looked in 2.35:1 mode?
Dunkirk has variable aspect ratio (2.2 and 1.78). I watch it in the 16:9 mode instead of changing the zoom every time the aspect ratio switches.
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post #28076 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:30 PM
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That's consistent with my readings. I have a 115" 2.35, 1.1 gain scope screen, and get 140 nits in the 16:9 mode (which is only about 92" diagonal).
Thanks, what do u get in 2.35 mode?

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post #28077 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:32 PM
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I’m using your 80 nit curve...I didn’t see any difference between that and your 100 nit curve
The 1000 nit or 4000 nit version?

Dunkirk is 1000nits film.

Just curious. I watched it with my 1000nit curve.

Yeah I recalibrated the curve to match my real output, when I originally made that I had 80 nits, now I have 100 in low lamp. I still don't feel the need to change it.

I really should pick up a Vertex at some point.

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post #28078 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Dunkirk has variable aspect ratio (2.2 and 1.78). I watch it in the 16:9 mode instead of changing the zoom every time the aspect ratio switches.
Or just do like I do and mask the top and bottom and keep it in scope the entire time. I can't stand the Nolan VAR films. Love his movies, hate the VAR. I refuse to watch VAR in 1.78 and then get letterbox above and below when the AR changes.

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post #28079 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:40 PM
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Or just do like I do and mask the top and bottom and keep it in scope the entire time. I can't stand the Nolan VAR films. Love his movies, hate the VAR. I refuse to watch VAR in 1.78 and then get letterbox above and below when the AR changes.
I used to let it spill onto the walls when I had my RS46 in 2.35:1 mode but now that the new JVCs will let the electronic masking go all the way down I (gasp) crop it all out. I do this for all VAR movies except Catching Fire which has a 45+ minute solid 1.78:1 sequence that I just zoom in for.
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post #28080 of 31822 Old 01-07-2018, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Meter aside, what did you think of the way Dunkirk looked in 2.35:1 mode?

Dunkirk looks excellent on my 136” 2.35:1 screen. When I have trouble with a title, even zooming in to 80” doesn’t fix it, it just makes the lens light leak even more pronounced...

I’m not saying there isn’t a brightness difference with a smaller image, but would you honestly start watching 2.35:1/2.40:1 movies in 1.78:1 mode for the brightness difference you are actually seeing with your eyes?

Meters are great but eyeballs watch movies.
Did u watch it in 2.35 mode? I watched it in 16:9 mode as most of the movie was in 16:9...my room is so dark, all the black bars blended in so the films switching between modes was seamless to me...I really had to look hard to see what mode the film was in...

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