Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread - Page 945 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #28321 of 31985 Old 01-16-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post


LOL... Great memes!
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post #28322 of 31985 Old 01-16-2018, 06:43 PM
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So I've been looking into how to get madVR to select the right picture mode. According to madshi, the latest madVR (just released, 0.92.11) can call a program/script based on criteria (still looking into that).

Based on that I decided to look into what it would take to write something to put my RS600 into a specific mode. Turns out it was really easy, Arve actually did all the hard work already, his jvcprojectortools already implements the whole JVC command set (or looks to). So a few minutes and a bit of python and I have a file I can run that puts the projector in User1 picture mode:

Code:
#!/usr/bin/env python

"""JVC projector module to select User1 Picture Mode"""

import jvc_protocol
from jvc_command import *
from jvc_protocol import CommandNack

def main():
    """JVC select User1 mode class"""
    print('Set User1 Picture Mode')
    try:
        with JVCCommand(print_all=False) as jvc:
            jvc.set(Command.Null, Null.Null)
            model = jvc.get(Command.Model)
            print('Model:', model)
            picture_mode = jvc.get(Command.PictureMode)
            print('Picture Mode:', picture_mode)
            try:
                jvc.set(Command.PictureMode, PictureMode.User1)
            except jvc_protocol.CommandNack:
                print('Failed to set Picture Mode User1')
            
    except CommandNack as err:
        print('Nack', err)
    except jvc_protocol.jvc_network.Error as err:
        print('Error', err)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()
Now off to figure out how to get madVR to call it...
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post #28323 of 31985 Old 01-16-2018, 09:03 PM
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Well done Sir, I will be all over this when you figure it out.

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post #28324 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Wait what! Am i getting this right: no more HDR? You are now preffering SDR conversion?
It's always been HDR to SDR conversion. Our displays are not HDR displays. The question is where does the conversion happens (player, video processor, display), and what the consequences are.

With gamma D, the conversion took place into the display. It was crap. The dark gamma control either raised the black floor, killing contrast, or crushed black. It was unusable. And to add insult to injury, the DI was disabled with HDR content.
I preferred for a while the HDR to SDR BT2020 in the UB900 using the Integral. The main positives were being able to use the DI and get our black levels back, the main negative was that it was expecting an SDR display and the highlights were limited to about 100nits real peakY, otherwise it wouldn't be correct as reference white would be too high. Until a slider came later, there was also a significant compromise in the highlights that were clipped fairly low. Still I and others recommended it for a long time, because for a while it was better to do the conversion in the player, as long as it was the UB900 (the Oppo conversion has been buggy for a long time and crushed blacks).
Then I found a way to use Calman to calibrate to HDR10 manually, at about the time Chad B started to experiment as well. We actually did share tricks and opinions at the very beginning of this. This allowed to get better than Gamma D calibration, with peakY as high as the display was capable to, and no raised black floor or crushed black. This was the beginning of custom curves, which have to be designed for each set-up ideally according to vareious factors and taste. I shared a few of them to show people that we could get better than gamma D, but the further you were away from the way from the target of the curve (or from a complete bat cave), the worse the results. So that's what I recommended, to go back to doing the conversion in the display.
Then Arve dropped the A bomb, which transformed a 30mn process (time needed to create a custom curve manually) into a one minute process, allowing to experiment with design, roll off and create even better custom curves. I immediately embraced the process, as the result was better than what I could get with my manual curves, and I recommended that people use the tool to create their own custom curve, or ask someone competent to use it to design one for their set-up and their taste. I created and shared a first Dolby Cinema Emulation curve, so that people could target one single peakY (107 nits) and know they were getting a fairly accurate conversion for that peakY.
I then worked with HD Fury to implement a feature in the Linker (then the Vertex) to allow us to get DI back with HDR content.
Then Lumagen implemented the Intensity Mapping LUT into the Radiance Pro, Oppo made some progress and someone I entirely trust (@KrisDeering;), who I knew loved custom curves because we discussed the process extensively when I started using them and with whom I have shared privately lots of information reported that he was getting better results in a specific area (low light color saturation) with the Radiance Pro intensity mapping LUT and the new beta f/w in the Oppo (not yet public). I investigated using MadVR and found that he was entirely correct. The time had come - again - to let the source or the video processor do the conversion, simply because it was better there. The big difference from the SDR BT2020 we could get from the UB900 is that these solution use the full brightness available (up to 200nits and more if your display can achieve that) and are far more accurate, beyond the gain in low light saturation. So as I said, it's not "going back to SSDR BT2020", it's going back to doing the SDR BT2020 conversion in the source (MadVR, Oppo) or the VP (Radiance Pro) to get better results with HDR content than when doing the conversion in the display, even with a with a custom curve.
There might be a point in the future where the conversion is better done in the display again, and if that's the case I'll be happy to recommend doing that.
I'm not attached to the present way to do things, whether I came up with it or not. When Arve dropped the A bomb, I was the first to experiment with his tool and recommend it. When Kris dropped the K bomb, I was the first to experiment (with MadVR as I don't have access to a Radiance Pro or an Oppo yet) and recommend a new way. Simply because I'm after the best possible quality and accurate representation. Not after "being right". No one is "right" for very long in this field. It keeps changing at light speed, and will probably keep changing for a couple of years.
So if you're after best PQ and most accurate representation, be open to change and ready to change your ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
So I've been looking into how to get madVR to select the right picture mode. According to madshi, the latest madVR (just released, 0.92.11) can call a program/script based on criteria (still looking into that).

Based on that I decided to look into what it would take to write something to put my RS600 into a specific mode. Turns out it was really easy, Arve actually did all the hard work already, his jvcprojectortools already implements the whole JVC command set (or looks to). So a few minutes and a bit of python and I have a file I can run that puts the projector in User1 picture mode:

Code:
#!/usr/bin/env python

"""JVC projector module to select User1 Picture Mode"""

import jvc_protocol
from jvc_command import *
from jvc_protocol import CommandNack

def main():
    """JVC select User1 mode class"""
    print('Set User1 Picture Mode')
    try:
        with JVCCommand(print_all=False) as jvc:
            jvc.set(Command.Null, Null.Null)
            model = jvc.get(Command.Model)
            print('Model:', model)
            picture_mode = jvc.get(Command.PictureMode)
            print('Picture Mode:', picture_mode)
            try:
                jvc.set(Command.PictureMode, PictureMode.User1)
            except jvc_protocol.CommandNack:
                print('Failed to set Picture Mode User1')
            
    except CommandNack as err:
        print('Nack', err)
    except jvc_protocol.jvc_network.Error as err:
        print('Error', err)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()
Now off to figure out how to get madVR to call it...
Well done, but unfortunately the external command call in custom profiles MadVR is buggy (broken), so there is no way to currently call a batch file when entering/exciting a custom profile [EDIT: I misread your sentence, it looked like the feature was new, when it was indeed fixed in the latest release, so that's a good thing!]. I'm having a discussion about this and other things with Madshi in the Doom9 thread, which is really where this should be discussed until we can come back and recommend settings to the general user, otherwise it's going to be super technical and boring for most. Please contribute to the discussion on Doom9 if you can, it will help to get results faster. I asked yesterday to Madshi the question about the JVC command format in a batch file, so it's great to have the answer in Python, but I'd like to know how to do it from a batch file, so if you know how to do that, please let us know in the doom9 thread, thanks.

What I'd like to do is get it to work first, then when the experimentation is over share the best settings and the batch files in one post, for those who want to experiment with MadVr, instead of posting each step of the experimentation here. There are lots of complex issues to resolve first re how to get the most accurate calibration (using MadVR's 64x64x64 3D LUTs) not only for the HDR to SDR conversion, but also for Rec-709, PAL and SECAM content.

Also, I'm trying to find the best way to get it to work with the Vertex, so that we can get MadVR to switch to the best HDR calibration automatically, but can still use the Vertex to switch calibrations with other sources. When MadVR does the conversion, there is no metadata sent, so the Vertex can't switch to SDR BT2020 automatically. Initially, we had the same issue with passthrough mode, but I reported it and it was corrected.

Finally, I'm trying to get another option in the software so that we don't have to choose between MadVR's excellent pixel shader math HDR to SDR conversion and using a 3D LUT as well, so that we can get super accurate results (far better than the JVC Autocal). All this is going to take time, and again, the best place to learn and or contribute is the Doom9 thread.

One of the reasons why I use MadVR for all my SD/HD content is its fantastic 3D LUT, which gives me reference quality (far better than Autocal) with all content. You can still get this with BT2020, but at the moment only if you use a 3D LUT to do the tone mapping. As Calman doesn't support BT2390 yet (I'm talking to Tyler at the moment to try to get them support it or at least better ways to calibrate HDR for projectors as quickly as they can), that's not a viable option. As Lightspace supports BT2390, I might try that if MadVR doesn't/can't implement what I'm asking for, but I'm not sure the results will be as good as with the pixel shader math, which does a lot of real-time frame by frame analysis that a static 3D LUT won't be able to do.

At the moment, I have MadVR to apply a different 3D LUT for Rec-709, PAL and SECAM based on the same Rec-709 calibration/profile, so I get reference quality for all that content. But we can't do this with SDR BT2020 (it has to be the largets gamut that's profiled and used to generate the other 3D LUTs), because that would mean keeping the iris fully open, possibly high lamp and the filter when displaying rec-709 and lower, with lower native on/off, more fan noise and shorter lamp life. Simply not an option.

I'm not going to post more about this here because 1) it's off topic until we have practical recommendations/tools to share with JVC users 2) it's taking a lot of time to repeat what's going on in MadVR's thread and 3) it's going to take a while before we can actually come up with a clear recommendation for the best way to achieve the best results not only in HDR but also in rec-709/PAL/SECAM. I'm happy to get better HDR with MadVR, but not if it means worse SDR.

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

Last edited by Manni01; 01-17-2018 at 02:36 AM.
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post #28325 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Now off to figure out how to get madVR to call it...
This is Great! I am not a coder at all, but am using Eventghost to do non-fancy automation with my theater. I have in the past ran blank exe files from command line that are detected by eventghost. From eventghost, I then issue an IR command for JVC using USBUIRT. You can easily run a python script through eventghost.
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post #28326 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 04:11 AM
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Can't wait for Kris and Oppo to get the beta firmware ready for release. My 203 is ready!
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post #28327 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Well done Sir, I will be all over this when you figure it out.
The python files themselves work just fine, I tested them. I just need to get madVR to call them, I'm still looking into that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Well done, but unfortunately the external command call in custom profiles MadVR is buggy (broken), so there is no way to currently call a batch file when entering/exciting a custom profile [EDIT: I misread your sentence, it looked like the feature was new, when it was indeed fixed in the latest release, so that's a good thing!].
In the mini-shootout thread, madshi said he just fixed the command function in the latest version.

Quote:
I'm having a discussion about this and other things with Madshi in the Doom9 thread, which is really where this should be discussed until we can come back and recommend settings to the general user, otherwise it's going to be super technical and boring for most. Please contribute to the discussion on Doom9 if you can, it will help to get results faster. I asked yesterday to Madshi the question about the JVC command format in a batch file, so it's great to have the answer in Python, but I'd like to know how to do it from a batch file, so if you know how to do that, please let us know in the doom9 thread, thanks.
I doubt it will ever be a pure batch file, I don't think the windows shell has the functionality necessary to open a socket and write raw data. Though it would be trivial to create a batch file that runs a python file, we do that all the time at work.

As for doom9, I don't really feel like jumping through the registration hoops over there for just one thread.
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post #28328 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
It's always been HDR to SDR conversion. Our displays are not HDR displays. The question is where does the conversion happens (player, video processor, display), and what the consequences are.
Thank you again Manni for your contribution. I can only imagine how much time you must spend on your system to come up with such good ideas one after the other!

A quick question, directly related to our JVC projectors: as a starting point, how do you set up the JVC projector for it to receive the 4k sdr bt2020 images generated by madVR? I believe you must simply autocalibrate your RS500 for gamma 2.4 and then autocal to calibrate the bt2020 profile and that’s it? all of this in high lamp mode, autoiris enabled of course?
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Last edited by stef2; 01-17-2018 at 05:28 AM.
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post #28329 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 06:00 AM
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^^^
Seems like JVC would be smart to get Manni01 to alpha/beta test new rounds of projectors and implement his ideas BEFORE release.

Mike

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post #28330 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 06:30 AM
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Hahahaha that would assume JVC wants to address this stuff more completely and proactively.
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post #28331 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 07:10 AM
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@Manni01 : ahh, ok got it. But that requires some spesific gear:

Quote:
So as I said, it's not "going back to SSDR BT2020", it's going back to doing the SDR BT2020 conversion in the source (MadVR, Oppo) or the VP (Radiance Pro) to get better results with HDR content than when doing the conversion in the display, even with a with a custom curve.
I have neither, so i guess i will follow the result here, and consider investing on some of the gear. Keep up the good work, and thank you so much for all your contributions to the forum
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post #28332 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
Thank you again Manni for your contribution. I can only imagine how much time you must spend on your system to come up with such good ideas one after the other!

A quick question, directly related to our JVC projectors: as a starting point, how do you set up the JVC projector for it to receive the 4k sdr bt2020 images generated by madVR? I believe you must simply autocalibrate your RS500 for gamma 2.4 and then autocal to calibrate the bt2020 profile and that’s it? all of this in high lamp mode, autoiris enabled of course?
As I said, I'll try to post when I have something that fully works and takes into account all the various parameters. I'm still experimenting and haven't yet defined the way to get optimal results (including with 3D LUTs) not only in HDR but also in SDR, not only with HTPC content but also switching calibrations for other sources with the Vertex. As soon as I do have something comprehensive and coherent, I'll post it here.
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JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
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post #28333 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 09:39 AM
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I got my Blade Runner 2049 disc yesterday. I did a double-take when my Vertex reported metadata in the OSD. Max Luminance is 10000; yes ten thousand. Oppo confirmed the value. It also seems that it is REC.2020 and not DCI-P3. This Warners Bros. release differs from what I understand the Sony UK release to be; 4000 nit.

I wonder if the USA disc metadata is messed up. It looked great on my RS500.

I have an Amazon UK version on order. There were rumors, now confirmed to be false, that the UK version would be in Dolby Vision. But I will get to compare the two.

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post #28334 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 10:21 AM
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Can't wait for Kris and Oppo to get the beta firmware ready for release. My 203 is ready!
I can take absolutely ZERO credit for what Oppo has achieved with their solution. I have put some comments on their beta forum about what I'm seeing, but they are the ones doing the work. It still has a ways to go, but they are making fantastic progress in the right direction. I have no idea when (or if) this will be available to others, though I'm sure we'll see it down the line. I will also not answer questions about it as it is not my place to.
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I got my Blade Runner 2049 disc yesterday. I did a double-take when my Vertex reported metadata in the OSD. Max Luminance is 10000; yes ten thousand. Oppo confirmed the value. It also seems that it is REC.2020 and not DCI-P3. This Warners Bros. release differs from what I understand the Sony UK release to be; 4000 nit.

I wonder if the USA disc metadata is messed up. It looked great on my RS500.

I have an Amazon UK version on order. There were rumors, now confirmed to be false, that the UK version would be in Dolby Vision. But I will get to compare the two.

Remember, those values mean absolutely NOTHING when it comes to the movie itself. It has everything to do with the mastering monitor. The peak nit value of this title is only 181 nits and the average is 73. It is barely brighter than a standard Blu-ray master. I think it was a HUGE mistake to provide mastering monitor details for UHD. All it does it provide confusion.

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post #28336 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
So here is my new recommendation: if MadVR is an option for you, by all means, take a look at its HDR to SDR conversion. It's the best HDR picture I've seen on my JVC, period. Better than a custom curve, factory ST2084 (especially gamma D) or SDR BT2020.
I've been using HDR demo content (including portions of Planet Earth II) from Samsung for about a year as my visual reference when calibrating projectors. I play back the content on my laptop (GTX 1070) using madVR connected directly to the display and/or through the receiver. My JVC rep couldn't believe how great HDR looked using this method when I showed him the content on an RS4500.

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Remember, those values mean absolutely NOTHING when it comes to the movie itself. It has everything to do with the mastering monitor
To go along with this, I was at Sony in San Diego in November for their HDR training. They said that nearly all UHD Blu-ray's are mastered and color graded on the BVM-X300 which has a max of 1000 nits. The content is later scanned for MaxCLL of any given pixel. It was recommended that a single calibration based on 1000 nits peak should be used for all HDR content and not base it on MaxCLL.

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post #28337 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 02:38 PM
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I've been using HDR demo content (including portions of Planet Earth II) from Samsung for about a year as my visual reference when calibrating projectors. I play back the content on my laptop (GTX 1070) using madVR connected directly to the display and/or through the receiver. My JVC rep couldn't believe how great HDR looked using this method when I showed him the content on an RS4500.





To go along with this, I was at Sony in San Diego in November for their HDR training. They said that nearly all UHD Blu-ray's are mastered and color graded on the BVM-X300 which has a max of 1000 nits. The content is later scanned for MaxCLL of any given pixel. It was recommended that a single calibration based on 1000 nits peak should be used for all HDR content and not base it on MaxCLL.


This makes sense for general use as it means you won’t see clipping with a lot of the content on the market (most Fox/Sony/Disney titles). But you’ll see clipping with content that extends past 1000 nits, of which there is a pretty substantial amount. There is no one size fits all with this stuff other than custom curves or adaptive tone mapping, which hasn’t made its way to projectors yet.


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post #28338 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 05:20 PM
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post #28339 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Remember, those values mean absolutely NOTHING when it comes to the movie itself. It has everything to do with the mastering monitor. The peak nit value of this title is only 181 nits and the average is 73. It is barely brighter than a standard Blu-ray master. I think it was a HUGE mistake to provide mastering monitor details for UHD. All it does it provide confusion.
And it would seem to follow that display manufacturers make a mistake if they use Max Luminance values in tone mapping.

Besides my RS500, I have an LG B7A OLED. By modifying only the Max Lum value from 10000 to 1000 with my HDfury Vertex it makes a very noticeable improvement both in the brightness of highlights and detail in blacks for this title. As well as a brighter overall picture.

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Last edited by claw; 01-17-2018 at 06:04 PM.
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post #28340 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
And it would seem to follow that display manufacturers make a mistake if they use Max Luminance values in tone mapping.

Besides my RS500, I have an LG B7A OLED. By modifying only the Max Lum value from 10000 to 1000 with my HDfury Vertex it makes a very noticeable improvement both in the brightness of highlights and detail in blacks for this title. As well as a brighter overall picture.
As explained in the Vertex guide, MaxBrightness is a pointless data. You want to test MaxCLL or MaxFall for better results, but even that isn't always reliable.

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
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post #28341 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
And it would seem to follow that display manufacturers make a mistake if they use Max Luminance values in tone mapping.

Besides my RS500, I have an LG B7A OLED. By modifying only the Max Lum value from 10000 to 1000 with my HDfury Vertex it makes a very noticeable improvement both in the brightness of highlights and detail in blacks for this title. As well as a brighter overall picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
As explained in the Vertex guide, MaxBrightness is a pointless data. You want to test MaxCLL or MaxFall for better results, but even that isn't always reliable.

I don’t think claw is reading the value but injecting a new value in the meta data, and seeing the OLED respond to max lum — which it shouldn’t. The OLED should only use maxcll, if anything, and better should just analyze each frame.
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post #28342 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 07:11 PM
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JVC Control with MadVR part 1

I just posted a first quick how to regarding implementing JVC Control from MadVR in the JVC Autocal thread. Let's keep the discussion there so as not to clutter this thread with technical posts, at least until the whole process is worked out.

I plan to post calibration and settings recommendations as soon as I've been able to do more tests. Given my current workload, it will likely take a while, but I wanted to release this kit to save others some time as I got it to work fairly easily thanks to Arve's work and Stanger89's post earlier today. I only had to correct a minor thing in the original code during debugging and create the required batch files as MadVR can't launch python files directly. It's now possible with this kit to select any of the six user modes to use an SDR BT2020 calibration in the JVC from MadVR when it plays HDR content. Note that if you play HDR in passthrough mode with MadVR, you don't need this if you have the Vertex, but then you have to use a custom curve in the JVC so you're not seeing the better quality available when MadVR does the tonemapping.

Please let's take discussion about this in the JVC Autocal thread for now or non-technical users are going to get mad.
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JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders

Last edited by Manni01; 01-17-2018 at 07:21 PM.
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post #28343 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 07:12 PM
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I have tried several searches, to no avail, but is there a post within this thread somewhere that describes what the deficiencies of Gamma D in an RS600 are. Any assistance appreciated.
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post #28344 of 31985 Old 01-17-2018, 08:59 PM
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I have tried several searches, to no avail, but is there a post within this thread somewhere that describes what the deficiencies of Gamma D in an RS600 are. Any assistance appreciated.
Two that came to mind are:
1. It disables the Dynamic Iris; some people prefer to have DI on for HDR
2. The curve is generally too dark. With 107 nits peak white, the "diffuse white" (50% input) is only about 12 nits.

In any case, I don't think you need to dwell on the deficiencies. Try, for example, Manni's Dolby Vision Emulation (latest version) and see if you like it much better than Gamma D.
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post #28345 of 31985 Old 01-18-2018, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Two that came to mind are:
1. It disables the Dynamic Iris; some people prefer to have DI on for HDR
2. The curve is generally too dark. With 107 nits peak white, the "diffuse white" (50% input) is only about 12 nits.

In any case, I don't think you need to dwell on the deficiencies. Try, for example, Manni's Dolby Vision Emulation (latest version) and see if you like it much better than Gamma D.
Dominic,

Another Canadian here, thank you for the response. I emailed JVC Canada asking if there were going to be any firmware updates. Got a response but it did not answer my question, they sent back new settings they claim are very successful with 4K HDR content.

Picture Mode: User1 (renamed to HDR)
Lamp: High
Colour Profile: BT.2020
Contrast: 10
Brightness: 7
Gamma D
Picture Tone: 16
Dark Level: 7
Bright Level: 7

I am away from my theatre for the next few days, any comments anyone has on those settings appreciated. Also going to take a look at the newest curves posted here.
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post #28346 of 31985 Old 01-18-2018, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikedit View Post
Dominic,

Another Canadian here, thank you for the response. I emailed JVC Canada asking if there were going to be any firmware updates. Got a response but it did not answer my question, they sent back new settings they claim are very successful with 4K HDR content.

Picture Mode: User1 (renamed to HDR)
Lamp: High
Colour Profile: BT.2020
Contrast: 10
Brightness: 7
Gamma D
Picture Tone: 16
Dark Level: 7
Bright Level: 7

I am away from my theatre for the next few days, any comments anyone has on those settings appreciated. Also going to take a look at the newest curves posted here.
IIRC that setting (bold) will dramatically raise your black floor and effectively kill your contrast. My recollection is anything over 2 will raise the black floor.
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post #28347 of 31985 Old 01-18-2018, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikedit View Post
Dominic,

Another Canadian here, thank you for the response. I emailed JVC Canada asking if there were going to be any firmware updates. Got a response but it did not answer my question, they sent back new settings they claim are very successful with 4K HDR content.

Picture Mode: User1 (renamed to HDR)
Lamp: High
Colour Profile: BT.2020
Contrast: 10
Brightness: 7
Gamma D
Picture Tone: 16
Dark Level: 7
Bright Level: 7

I am away from my theatre for the next few days, any comments anyone has on those settings appreciated. Also going to take a look at the newest curves posted here.
I used HCFR and an i1D3 meter to adjust the Gamma D settings to match ST.2084/BT.2390 as closely as possible, and actually ended up with similar settings (Picture Tone: 17; Dark Tone: 7; Bright Tone: 5). A lot depends on the screen size, of course.
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post #28348 of 31985 Old 01-18-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikedit View Post
I have tried several searches, to no avail, but is there a post within this thread somewhere that describes what the deficiencies of Gamma D in an RS600 are. Any assistance appreciated.
Gamma D does not provide a good HDR curve. The most salient problem is that in order to get the lower end (shadows) to look correct, you have to adjust the dark level gamma value to a very high number, which kills the overall contrast by raising the black level to be very gray.
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post #28349 of 31985 Old 01-18-2018, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikedit View Post
I have tried several searches, to no avail, but is there a post within this thread somewhere that describes what the deficiencies of Gamma D in an RS600 are. Any assistance appreciated.
Gamma D is extremely flawed. All you need for proof is the fact that JVC replaced the RS400/500/600 projectors with RS420/520/620 models one year later with a built in 'custom curve' abandoning their ridiculous gamma D settings.

I wrote this JVC 4K QuickStart guide a few days ago in the RS400 thread, it equally applies to the RS500/600.

Good luck.
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post #28350 of 31985 Old 01-18-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikedit View Post
Dominic,

Another Canadian here, thank you for the response. I emailed JVC Canada asking if there were going to be any firmware updates. Got a response but it did not answer my question, they sent back new settings they claim are very successful with 4K HDR content.

Picture Mode: User1 (renamed to HDR)
Lamp: High
Colour Profile: BT.2020
Contrast: 10
Brightness: 7
Gamma D
Picture Tone: 16
Dark Level: 7
Bright Level: 7

I am away from my theatre for the next few days, any comments anyone has on those settings appreciated. Also going to take a look at the newest curves posted here.
Tried these settings out on my X750 and they actually look OK using an Apple TV 4K box (set to HDR mode). I normally use 4K SDR on the projector and 4K Dolby Vision on my OLED so it's hard to make comparisons. I'm not into UHD Blu-ray.

One thing to watch out for. Gamma D disables the mechanical iris (as previously mentioned) but dynamic tone mapping is still active in Gamma D and you will get floating blacks on Auto 1 or Auto 2. So be sure to set the iris to manual when using gamma D.

Bruce K.
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