Originally Posted by Dominic Chan
Has anyone actually measured the OPPO EOTF to see what's giving the apparent brightness boost? The player can't possibly increase the light output from the projector.
No one has posted measurements OTHER THAN noting what they are seeing using black level test patterns.... which of course doesn't answer your question about how APL is increased (ie, what the EOTF or tone mapping looks like on a chart).
Originally Posted by stanger89
I don't think the mastering is the problem, we've basically proven that with custom curves. With a properly designed custom curve, everything looks decent, that you don't need to chase setting for every title. Other than a handful of titles like Lucy that clearly have errors (elevated black floor) or Oblivion where who knows what went wrong, I haven't seen a lot of evidence of widespread mastering problems.
What I have seen is widespread poor HDR implementations, especially on projectors, and that should not be forgotten (maybe forgiven if they ever get their act together), which of course would likely have been lessened if there were standards for how to perform tone mapping.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting Kris's comments, especially since he keeps recommending it, but it really seems like a two-steps forward, two-steps back sort of thing. But like I said, it's beta, so hopefully they'll get the fiddly part worked out. I was pretty close to ordering an Oppo based on Kris's praise of the feature, but not if I'm going to have to guess and fiddle with every movie I put in the thing. That's just not acceptable IMO.
I think you are spot on here. We have seen, with the custom curve when created well, that it is possible to tone map in a way that works for all titles (other than known mistakes) without clipping black detail and highlight detail.
So far, the reports regarding the Oppo approach indicate it is VERY pleasing, VERY easy, and requires adjustment for each title to avoid clipping (and of course it always clips below 2% black at present according to posted tests).
If this can be solved, it sounds like a big win.
But even if it continues to require fiddling etc, it is probably easier for most users to get satisfactory results this way than to try to create a custom curve on their own given the amount of frustration people have experienced doing that.
Originally Posted by muzz
I don't remember "Every title", wasn't the mention of mastering at different levels the trigger, like clipped whites? I think claw said he measured mode 2 and it was 10,000, so he dropped it to mode 4- and measured 4,000...or something along those lines..posts are in the Oppo thread.
They clip at different points, but in order to retain highlight detail, one needs to twiddle with the luminance slider and try different modes (which may also interact with shadow detail as well). In other words, it's not just about the clipping point but also (behind the scenes) the shape of the curve the determines whether the image works.
Originally Posted by asharma
Yeah, that comment got me too...I have not pulled the trigger yet on the 203...perhaps there is a setting that doesn’t let perfect be the enemy of the good and is more or less a set and forget...
That's the key. I think that setting is called "Custom HDR gamma in the JVC".....so far.
Originally Posted by stanger89
So is it just me who's bothered by Kris' comments that the Oppo beta firmware requires fiddling with every title you play?
Yep, that's the only thing keeping me from ordering another Oppo.