JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 102 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:50 AM
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After 300 hours from the last calibration I decided to recalibrate my X7000. Last time I used @Chad B method and it worked quite well.
This time I was not as successful. I got perfect results with autocal, but them thins started to get complicated.
Fist of all, creating a custom color profile did not give good results. I still get large errors, especially in red. But most of all, my gamma is completely off the target.
I read about gamma droop and I think this is wat is happening. In order to get to a good approximaiton of 1886 I need to put a coorection value of 2.5 and crank up dark tones to +6. Before doing it it looks like on the picture.
Any ideas how to deal with this gamma droop and why I have more color errors than before?
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Last edited by Mojito; 03-22-2018 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
After 300 hours from the last calibration I decided to recalibrate my X7000. Last time I used @chadb method and it worked quite well.
This time I was not as successful. I got perfect results with autocal, but them thins started to get complicated.
Fist of all, creating a custom color profile did not give good results. I still get large errors, especially in red. But most of all, my gamma is completely off the target.
I read about gamma droop and I think this is wat is happening. In order to get to a good approximaiton of 1886 I need to put a coorection value of 2.5 and crank up dark tones to +6. Before doing it it looks like on the picture.
Any ideas how to deal with this gamma droop and why I have more color errors than before?
The calibration result does show that a large gamma droop has been corrected by autocal. What does the gamma curve look like in CalMAN post calibrations?
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The calibration result does show that a large gamma droop has been corrected by autocal. What does the gamma curve look like in CalMAN post calibrations?
That's calman after JVC autocal and after creating the custom color profile. I did not do any calibrations, since I thought that something strange going on and I'd better ask first.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
That's calman after JVC autocal and after creating the custom color profile. I did not do any calibrations, since I thought that something strange going on and I'd better ask first.
The gamma curve will look better if you set the target to 2.2 instead of 2.4 or bt.1886. CalMAN always displays the end points (0% and 100%) at the target value, even though the gamma is technically undefined at these points. The only points that are significantly off are 80 and 85%.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The gamma curve will look better if you set the target to 2.2 instead of 2.4 or bt.1886. CalMAN always displays the end points (0% and 100%) at the target value, even though the gamma is technically undefined at these points. The only points that are significantly off are 80 and 85%.
Is there any way to correct it, or it's the effect of the aging lamp (around 600 hours)?
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
Is there any way to correct it, or it's the effect of the aging lamp (around 600 hours)?
Gamma droop is very common, even for relatively new lamps. Autocal has already corrected for most of it (as shown in the blue curve). For the remaining error, I would first remeasure them to see if they're consistent, and if so, rerun autocal with the "gamma only" option.
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:51 AM
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Ok, so I've done some more tesing last night. I decided to do it from scratch and loaded INIT file. On Natural/Normal/6500/Standard it looked like this:



Measurements from the Autocal Software with Spyder 5 showed this:







I did Autocal and it improved the colors and grey level:





In Calman it looks like this (all in Natural/Normal/6500/Standard)








After calibrating the color temperature:





As a result there is still a gamma drop and huge reduction in brightness in comparison with the INIT settings, like minus 15 nits!
I selected custom gamma, set it to 2.3 in the projector and did some tweaks to the gamma settings:





Finally I settled with these settings to give it more punch in bright scenes:





I guess nex I need some more color calibrations (do a custom color space as per @Chad B procedure), but didn't have more time last night. It already looked good on the actual content.





I'm really puzzled with such a huge brightness drop. Is this normal after the Autocal?
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Last edited by Mojito; 03-23-2018 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojito View Post
I did Autocal and it improved the colors and grey level:
Did you run Autocal with Colour+Gamma, or Gamma only? I have seen similar drops in brightness in the past, but recently when I ran Gamma only, there was hardly any change in brightness.
Quote:
Finally I settled with these settings to give it more punch in bright scenes:
Was that done using the 12-point gamma control?
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Did you run Autocal with Colour+Gamma, or Gamma only? I have seen similar drops in brightness in the past, but recently when I ran Gamma only, there was hardly any change in brightness.
I did a full autocal gamma+color.

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Was that done using the 12-point gamma control?
No, I only used the gamma controls in the projector
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:06 AM
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I did a full autocal gamma+color.
In my previous post I suggested Gamma only for this specific reason (to avoid brightness loss).
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
In my previous post I suggested Gamma only for this specific reason (to avoid brightness loss).
If you look at the screenshot which I posted yesterday, brightness there is similar to what I ended up with after all new calibrations. It means that after I loaded the INIT file back into the PJ, and measured without any calibration, it showed a higher level.
Since I reset everything, I needed to do a new autocal anyway.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:23 AM
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If you look at the screenshot which I posted yesterday, brightness there is similar to what I ended up with after all new calibrations. It means that after I loaded the INIT file back into the PJ, and measured without any calibration, it showed a higher level.
That's to be expected, assuming this is not the first time you ran autocal. The brightness loss is not "cumulative", you don't incur a new loss every time you run it.

Quote:
Since I reset everything, I needed to do a new autocal anyway.
Many people reported brightness after (full) autocal, so I have been doing Gamma Only autocal. To correct for the grey scale and gamut I simply use a new profile with custom chromaticity values ("Chad B's method", but without running Color autocal.)

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-23-2018 at 06:15 AM. Reason: correcting typo
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:41 AM
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In my previous post I suggested Gamma only for this specific reason (to avoid brightness loss).
I'm now considering running a calibration on my RS500, as it has several hundred hours on it now.

I've been culling this thread, and see references to the brightness loss mentioned frequently. I don't have any brightness to lose!

But in addition, I had a few questions that may get me moving in the right direction:

1) Use the JVC Autocal SW (no charge, as I see on the download page) with a Spyder 4 or 5, OR the "Calman" ($400) SW with another meter (I have an iRite Display Pro already for another application)? Looks like the cheaper way to go is buy a Spyder and DL the free SW, vs other way around, but don't know if I'm missing something (or can use my iRite Display Pro with the JVC version).

2) If to avoid a brightness loss you don't want to do a color calibration with Autocal / Calman, then is it only a gamma tool? I thought that was the whole point of the "Autocal".

3) Is there a way to backup whatever stock / factory settings are in the PJ before starting this process, so if you do get poor results and / or a brightness loss, you can revert to those settings?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:48 AM
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If I’m only going to use the gamma correction in Autocal, do I have to worry about the iris setting?
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That's to be expected, assuming this is not the first time you ran autocal. The brightness loss is not "cumulative", you don't incur a new loss every time you run it.
Good to know. I was wondering if this would happen each time to do an autocal.

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Many people reported brightness after (full) autocal, so I have been doing Color Only autocal. To correct for the grey scale and gamut I simply use a new profile with custom chromaticity values ("Chad B's method", but without running Color autocal.)
Do you mean no gamma autocal after the INIT settings? I don't suppose you gain any brightness back if you do color ony after gamm+color?
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:06 AM
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But in addition, I had a few questions that may get me moving in the right direction:

1) Use the JVC Autocal SW (no charge, as I see on the download page) with a Spyder 4 or 5, OR the "Calman" ($400) SW with another meter (I have an iRite Display Pro already for another application)? Looks like the cheaper way to go is buy a Spyder and DL the free SW, vs other way around, but don't know if I'm missing something (or can use my iRite Display Pro with the JVC version).
I myself use autocal (with Spyder 5) for the baseline calibration and HCFR (with x-rite i1 Display Pro) for fine-tuning and HDR calibration. They complement each other.

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2) If to avoid a brightness loss you don't want to do a color calibration with Autocal / Calman, then is it only a gamma tool?
Not really. If you read the "full" autocal procedure (first post in this thread, plus the links to v5 software) there is one step where you create a custom profile to correct for grey scale and gamut error. I've been doing that without running Color AutoCal.
Quote:
3) Is there a way to backup whatever stock / factory settings are in the PJ before starting this process, so if you do get poor results and / or a brightness loss, you can revert to those settings?
If you read the procedure, you will see that there are two levels of protection in case of poor results:
  1. An Init calibration file is automatically created which corresponds to the projector's internal state before you run Autocal. You should save it and can restore it any time you want.
  2. In the last step (at the end of Autocal), you have the option not to save the calibration results
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-23-2018 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Des511 View Post
If I’m only going to use the gamma correction in Autocal, do I have to worry about the iris setting?
Personally, I would run it with the iris in the position I expect to use.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:10 AM
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Do you mean no gamma autocal after the INIT settings? I don't suppose you gain any brightness back if you do color ony after gamm+color?
Yes, I did mean Gamma Autocal and have corrected my previous post.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-23-2018 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des511 View Post
If I’m only going to use the gamma correction in Autocal, do I have to worry about the iris setting?
Personally, I would run it with the iris in the position I expect to use.
I leave it open fully on Auto 2 for HDR but for SDR I have the iris on -7 and on auto 2 so do I have to run it twice with these settings?
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Many people reported brightness after (full) autocal, so I have been doing Color Only autocal. To correct for the grey scale and gamut I simply use a new profile with custom chromaticity values ("Chad B's method", but without running Color autocal.)
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No, you won't regain it. That's why I do not run Color Autocal.
I belive you meant Gamma Only in the first quote? Otherwise I'm confused.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:20 AM
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I leave it open fully on Auto 2 for HDR but for SDR I have the iris on -7 and on auto 2 so do I have to run it twice with these settings?
You can't run Autocal with iris in Auto; the software won't allow it.
Since only one gamma calibration is saved for each Power/CMD setting, running it twice won't help as the second calibration will override the first.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Yes, I did mean Gamma Autocal and have corrected my previous post.
Thanks. I'll try that nex time.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:40 AM
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JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600)

Dominic - Quick question do you know if you have an import gamma curve and then reset your autocal back to original will the imported gamma curves also need to be reimported?

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Old 03-23-2018, 06:46 AM
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Dominic - Quick question do you know if you have an import gamma curve and then reset your autocal back to original will the imported gamma curves also need to be reimported?
No, autocal and gamma Import are independent processes, although the actual performance of the projector depends on both.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I myself use autocal (with Spyder 5) for the baseline calibration and HCFR (with x-rite i1 Display Pro) for fine-tuning and HDR calibration. They complement each other.
So I'll look into HCFR, since my x-rite will work with that, apparently.

Regarding a Spyder 5 - all versions work the same WRT JVC "Autocal" use - ie Pro, Elite, Express versions, or is there something more accurate about the pricier models when used solely for JVC Autocal?

Thanks
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:34 AM
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So I'll look into HCFR, since my x-rite will work with that, apparently.

Regarding a Spyder 5 - all versions work the same WRT JVC "Autocal" use - ie Pro, Elite, Express versions, or is there something more accurate about the pricier models when used solely for JVC Autocal?

Thanks
All versions of the Spyder will work equally well. There are unit-to-unit variations, but apparently those are not “version” or “model” dependent.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:23 AM
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All versions of the Spyder will work equally well. There are unit-to-unit variations, but apparently those are not “version” or “model” dependent.
Thank you - ordered one.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
No, autocal and gamma Import are independent processes, although the actual performance of the projector depends on both.
thanks!

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Old 03-27-2018, 11:26 AM
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Hey Guys, what should I expect to show up for the gamma plot when doing a color only autocal for HDR? Is this normal with the settings below?

https://imgur.com/qJbublQ

RS540
Picture Mode = HDR
Color Profile = BT.2020
Color Temp = HDR
Gamma - ST.2084
Picture Tone = 12
Dark Level = 5
Bright Level = -7
Master Contrast = 0
Master Brightness = 0
Color (saturation) = 0

Video: JVC RS540 w/Anamorphic Lens & 122" 2.35:1 CIH
Audio: Marantz SR7010 / XPA-3 / UPA-7 Sources: Nvidia Shield / Xbox One
7. Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 (L R C), Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE (side & rear)
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:02 PM
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Hey Guys, what should I expect to show up for the gamma plot when doing a color only autocal for HDR? Is this normal with the settings below?
The gamma plot shows the outcome of the gamma calibration; it doesn't show anything relevant after a colour-only autocal.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-27-2018 at 12:05 PM.
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