JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post
thank you guys.

here are my new results, hopefully better then the first go around.
so first three are the typical gamma, color, white after doing the 33 point calibration, per phase 1. natural, standard setting
then i did phase 2w/ 0, -5, -10, -15 cmd off/low no attached pics
my final thumbnail is my final color calibration, user4, 709nf, 6500k, 2.4 +2, cmd low, -10 iris

hopefully better then last time
Looks good
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post #512 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 12:07 PM
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I was excited to run my first autocal and post my Spyder5 Pro results, but it appears that I cannot get my RS500 on my network. I tried multiple cables, multiple connection points directly to the access point, DHCP on, and DHCP off with multiple static IP addresses. Nothing has worked despite both the orange and green lights being lit on the projector's network port. I'll need to do some troubleshooting with JVC to see if the network port is bad on the projector and then I'll circle back with my results.
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post #513 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Looks good
thank you very much. i'm very grateful for the work you put in on this subject and in this thread
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post #514 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
I was excited to run my first autocal and post my Spyder5 Pro results, but it appears that I cannot get my RS500 on my network. I tried multiple cables, multiple connection points directly to the access point, DHCP on, and DHCP off with multiple static IP addresses. Nothing has worked despite both the orange and green lights being lit on the projector's network port. I'll need to do some troubleshooting with JVC to see if the network port is bad on the projector and then I'll circle back with my results.
If you go into your router...can you see that the JVC is connected and has an IP address?
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post #515 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 12:24 PM
 
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Go into your router and see what IP address and port the JVC is connected as.
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post #516 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 02:34 PM
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Just wondering,how do you guys store your Spyder meters to prevent premature degradation?
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post #517 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Just wondering,how do you guys store your Spyder meters to prevent premature degradation?
Peli-case with a good dessicant. i've kept my golden Spyder 4 like this since day one and it hasn't drifted at all.
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post #518 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 03:06 PM
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Thanks Dave and Seegs. I just solved the problem. I had to change the third-to-last static IP address digit from 0 to 1 and that did the trick. Now my router sees it! I'll post my autocal results sometime in the next week, and I'll post how the Spyder5 performs compared to my i1D3 in Calman.
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post #519 of 4211 Old 06-05-2016, 06:40 PM
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I ran my first autocal tonight with a Spyder5 Pro. I did gamma + color for standard and then did color only on Manni's Rec-709NF profile. I think everything looks good. Next comes the fun part of seeing how accurate my Spyder5 is. I'll check on that this week and report back.

I could not have done this so efficiently without Manni's excellent guides in the first several posts in this thread. He is also correct that the standard profile is oversaturated. I am trying to see if I can get away from my Radiance entirely, so I used his Rec-709NF and it is spot-on (according to the Spyder5, anyway).
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post #520 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 01:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
I ran my first autocal tonight with a Spyder5 Pro. I did gamma + color for standard and then did color only on Manni's Rec-709NF profile. I think everything looks good. Next comes the fun part of seeing how accurate my Spyder5 is. I'll check on that this week and report back.

I could not have done this so efficiently without Manni's excellent guides in the first several posts in this thread. He is also correct that the standard profile is oversaturated. I am trying to see if I can get away from my Radiance entirely, so I used his Rec-709NF and it is spot-on (according to the Spyder5, anyway).
Looks good gamut-wise, although I assume you took screenshots after the rec-709nf color only calibration, which didn't touch the gamma as it's a custom color profile (see the dash after gamma in the first screenshot, that means gamma calibration wasn't applied).

The gamma looks perfect though, so it looks like the former run with standard worked well.

Yes the rec-709nf gives results as good as the spyder 5 allows. It needs to be checked, but even if slightly off the near perfect linearity should be an improvement anyway.

Good job!
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post #521 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Looks good gamut-wise, although I assume you took screenshots after the rec-709nf color only calibration, which didn't touch the gamma as it's a custom color profile (see the dash after gamma in the first screenshot, that means gamma calibration wasn't applied).

The gamma looks perfect though, so it looks like the former run with standard worked well.

Yes the rec-709nf gives results as good as the spyder 5 allows. It needs to be checked, but even if slightly off the near perfect linearity should be an improvement anyway.

Good job!
Thanks, Manni. You are correct that I ran gamma on the standard profile and it retained the calibrated results for the color-only run on your Rec-709NF profile. Thanks for looking at my results!
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post #522 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 02:46 PM
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I'm confused about something. Is the Rec-709NF profile loaded into the projector before or after calibration?
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post #523 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
I'm confused about something. Is the Rec-709NF profile loaded into the projector before or after calibration?
Im sure you can just import it whenever you want but the order to do it is:

You run the gamma + color calibration portion (phase 1) first. I used Natural, gamma normal, 6500k and iris open. Once that's completed then do Phase 2, which is going back into the settings, select color only option, go back to the calibration tab doing cmd off/low and iris at different positions (0,-5,-10,-15).

Lastly do the color profile. Import his 709nf in the import/export section. Selecting the color profile in the drop down menu. Upload it the custom # you want (mine was custom2). Here i changed to my user4, double click color profile to that custom # you imported it to, select 6500k, the gamma you want, the iris position you'll watch it at then run color calibration.
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post #524 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpnaz480 View Post
Im sure you can just import it whenever you want but the order to do it is:

You run the gamma + color calibration portion (phase 1) first. I used Natural, gamma normal, 6500k and iris open. Once that's completed then do Phase 2, which is going back into the settings, select color only option, go back to the calibration tab doing cmd off/low and iris at different positions (0,-5,-10,-15).

Lastly do the color profile. Import his 709nf in the import/export section. Selecting the color profile in the drop down menu. Upload it the custom # you want (mine was custom2). Here i changed to my user4, double click color profile to that custom # you imported it to, select 6500k, the gamma you want, the iris position you'll watch it at then run color calibration.
Thank you. So I would run calibration three times? One with gamma + color, again with color only, and a third time after uploading the color profile?
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post #525 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 03:51 PM
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Thank you. So I would run calibration three times? One with gamma + color, again with color only, and a third time after uploading the color profile?
Ya. I never thought about it because phase 1 and 2 go hand in hand, except for changing the calibration process.

So...
phase 1 = gamma + color
Phase 2 = color only selected working cmd low/off
phase 3 = color only selected but setting everything to how you'll actually watch blu rays

Manni's instructions when reading it without the software up seem techincal and hard but once you see the menu and read the instructions while looking at jvc auto cal is very easy and straight forward.
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post #526 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 05:36 PM
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After the JVC autocal I posted about above, I measured my RS500 in Calman using my i1D3Pro. The results looked good for my Spyder5. Without any adjustments after the JVC autocal, my dEs were all below 3. My average grayscale dE was 1.8 and my average ColorChecker dE was 1.3. Max grayscale was 2.8 and max colorchecker was 2.7. These are shown in the picture "DI Off Before D65." I then adjusted the RGB balance and achieved an average grayscale dE of 0.6 and an average ColorChecker dE of 0.7. Max grayscale was 1 and max ColorChecker was 1.6. These are shown in the picture "DI Off After D65." My gamma looked pretty good at 2.41 with a drop at the low end due to clicking the dark gamma setting up to +2. Don't pay attention to the 0 value in the Gamma chart because my meter cannot read low enough for that to be accurate.

If you notice anything amiss in these values, please let me know. For now, I am quite pleased with how this Spyder5 Pro performed.
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post #527 of 4211 Old 06-06-2016, 05:55 PM
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Itink Mann up has been invaluable.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #528 of 4211 Old 06-07-2016, 12:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
After the JVC autocal I posted about above, I measured my RS500 in Calman using my i1D3Pro. The results looked good for my Spyder5. Without any adjustments after the JVC autocal, my dEs were all below 3. My average grayscale dE was 1.8 and my average ColorChecker dE was 1.3. Max grayscale was 2.8 and max colorchecker was 2.7. These are shown in the picture "DI Off Before D65." I then adjusted the RGB balance and achieved an average grayscale dE of 0.6 and an average ColorChecker dE of 0.7. Max grayscale was 1 and max ColorChecker was 1.6. These are shown in the picture "DI Off After D65." My gamma looked pretty good at 2.41 with a drop at the low end due to clicking the dark gamma setting up to +2. Don't pay attention to the 0 value in the Gamma chart because my meter cannot read low enough for that to be accurate.

If you notice anything amiss in these values, please let me know. For now, I am quite pleased with how this Spyder5 Pro performed.
That looks good!

Provided your i1d3 is reasonably accurate (it should be), I would have kept that Spyder 5.
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post #529 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 04:18 AM
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When using the hd fury to strip hdr, does it have any effect on how the 4k blu ray is displayed? The disc is intended for hdr, and I wonder how much harm it's doing.
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post #530 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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When using the hd fury to strip hdr, does it have any effect on how the 4k blu ray is displayed? The disc is intended for hdr, and I wonder how much harm it's doing.
Wrong thread
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post #531 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 04:56 AM
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I was thinking in regards to anyone who has calibrated it stripping hdr and comparing it to the HDR enabled version. In the owner thread, I will get a mixed opinion off the eye test. Guess it's hard to find it out anyways since there really is not a way to test it at the moment.
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post #532 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking in regards to anyone who has calibrated it stripping hdr and comparing it to the HDR enabled version. In the owner thread, I will get a mixed opinion off the eye test. Guess it's hard to find it out anyways since there really is not a way to test it at the moment.
At the moment you can't get anything beyond the eye test as we can't calibrate for or even measure HDR. I've posted the measurements of my SDR BT2020 profile, which shows how far the gamut goes, and I've commented in the main thread that SDR BT2020 looked less saturated than HDR BT2020. So the choice is between better black levels / fade to black in SDR and more saturated colours / better highlights with HDR. For me, it's a per title decision depending on the movie. Unfortunately, it's very hard to make that call beforehand most of the time. For example, I would recommend HDR for Mad Max, San Andreas, The Amazing Spiderman 2, The Smurfs 2, Pineapple Express and even Hitman 47, but I would recommend SDR BT2020 for Salt, the Maze Runner movies, X-Men Days of the future past or The Witch Hunter where the colours are not very saturated and the scenes with a low APL really suffer in HDR. On the other hand, a movie like The Revenant is a tough call, because it has many fade to blacks that suffer in HDR (badly) and many high APL scenes (in the forest, in the mountain) which really shine in HDR. For that one, I prefer the HDR presentation, but I hate the compromise re black levels. Same for Deadpool. I find the HDR presentation overall better, but the black levels suffer, more than in a movie like Hitman 47. It's very subjective in the end.

This is why at least for now, it's kind of off topic because it has little to do with the autocal (except that the only way to get a good HDR calibration at the moment is the JVC Autocal). When we can measure and calibrate HDR, we can be more objective about this.
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post #533 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 06:09 PM
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Manni - I watched Deadpool in HDR with your BT2020 set as you recommended with high lamp and iris at -7 (I ran autocal on this a month ago). I found the colors really impressive but the whites were a bit too bright. If I were to test this with the iris at around -9 or -10, would I need to run autocal again or could I just change the iris and evaluate? I followed your latest express recommendation in the owners thread minus the SDR2020 since I don't have a fury to strip out HDR. Thanks
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post #534 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 08:06 PM
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Hi Manni
I wanted to carry over our pms to the thread like you asked. I got the projector running and had some more questions or in need of more clarifications regarding the 3d settings.

I got color profile for the calibrated REC709NF

Under color temp is that where you were saying i would need another meter and do the 100% white to D65? If i don't have another meter to use to calibrate, can i choose Custom 1 or do i use the standard 6500k?

Since the gamma was calibrated in phase 1, those settings carry over to all user numbers? So do I select custom1 and then the correction value 2.3? Or do i use normal?

Thanks again for the help!

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post #535 of 4211 Old 06-08-2016, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
At the moment you can't get anything beyond the eye test as we can't calibrate for or even measure HDR. I've posted the measurements of my SDR BT2020 profile, which shows how far the gamut goes, and I've commented in the main thread that SDR BT2020 looked less saturated than HDR BT2020. So the choice is between better black levels / fade to black in SDR and more saturated colours / better highlights with HDR. For me, it's a per title decision depending on the movie. Unfortunately, it's very hard to make that call beforehand most of the time. For example, I would recommend HDR for Mad Max, San Andreas, The Amazing Spiderman 2, The Smurfs 2, Pineapple Express and even Hitman 47, but I would recommend SDR BT2020 for Salt, the Maze Runner movies, X-Men Days of the future past or The Witch Hunter where the colours are not very saturated and the scenes with a low APL really suffer in HDR. On the other hand, a movie like The Revenant is a tough call, because it has many fade to blacks that suffer in HDR (badly) and many high APL scenes (in the forest, in the mountain) which really shine in HDR. For that one, I prefer the HDR presentation, but I hate the compromise re black levels. Same for Deadpool. I find the HDR presentation overall better, but the black levels suffer, more than in a movie like Hitman 47. It's very subjective in the end.

This is why at least for now, it's kind of off topic because it has little to do with the autocal (except that the only way to get a good HDR calibration at the moment is the JVC Autocal). When we can measure and calibrate HDR, we can be more objective about this.
Thanks for answering my question.
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post #536 of 4211 Old 06-09-2016, 10:44 AM
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Is it necessary to use the JVC calibration software when calibrating my rs400u, or can I simply calibrate the pj using Calman5 and my C6 meter?

Last edited by marc1006; 06-09-2016 at 10:48 AM.
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post #537 of 4211 Old 06-09-2016, 12:22 PM
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Is it necessary to use the JVC calibration software when calibrating my rs400u, or can I simply calibrate the pj using Calman5 and my C6 meter?
You'd need some sort of processing/LUT box also like a Lumagen or eeColor. I use CalMAN with a C6 and Mini 3D and get stellar results. I'm looking at theis JVC calibration for 4k which the Mini 3D doesn't pass.
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post #538 of 4211 Old 06-09-2016, 11:02 PM
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Is it necessary to use the JVC calibration software when calibrating my rs400u, or can I simply calibrate the pj using Calman5 and my C6 meter?
Calman can't fix the "gamma droop" that occurs on the bulb as it ages. Also, if you run the autocal first, the Calman process is much quicker because the autocal gets your dE's so low, that any adjustments you make are minimal. My first autocal was so damn good, I didn't even bother taking the time for a touch up with Calman because my dE's were all under 2, I didn't feel like wasting the time. That was about 200 hours ago and I'm going to run a new autocal as soon as I can. I'll try and do a baseline measurement with Calman beforehand to see how much it drifted, but not sure if I'll have to the time to even do that.
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post #539 of 4211 Old 06-09-2016, 11:45 PM
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Calman can't fix the "gamma droop" that occurs on the bulb as it ages. Also, if you run the autocal first, the Calman process is much quicker because the autocal gets your dE's so low, that any adjustments you make are minimal. My first autocal was so damn good, I didn't even bother taking the time for a touch up with Calman because my dE's were all under 2, I didn't feel like wasting the time. That was about 200 hours ago and I'm going to run a new autocal as soon as I can. I'll try and do a baseline measurement with Calman beforehand to see how much it drifted, but not sure if I'll have to the time to even do that.
It's my understanding that if he were to use just CalMAN and a C6 to calibrate the JVC, he'd need to use the manual controls of the pj and there isn't much available in the way of manual grayscale/gamma adjustments on the new JVCs. I'm really bummed they took away the manual 21 pt gamma adjustment.
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post #540 of 4211 Old 06-10-2016, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
It's my understanding that if he were to use just CalMAN and a C6 to calibrate the JVC, he'd need to use the manual controls of the pj and there isn't much available in the way of manual grayscale/gamma adjustments on the new JVCs. I'm really bummed they took away the manual 21 pt gamma adjustment.
There was never 21points manual gamma in the JVCs, only 12point.

The manual tri-band gamma controls in the new JVCs are very good for small adjustments. They replaced the 12point manual gamma controls that took ages to get right and couldn't solve the gamma droop after a while by a 33points automatic gamma control that's so good that you don't need an external LUT anymore and that fully solves the gamma droop, at least for a few thousand hours. So yes, you have to pay less than $100 for a Spyder meter, but then you can save thousands on an external 3D LUT which isn't necessary anymore. You also have the 12points manual gamma in the software if really want them, but apart from targeting really exotic curves I really don't see why anyone would want to use these given how well the autocal performs.

I used to be very critical with the JVCs calibration-wise because of the gamma droop, their poor CMS that isn't linear, their undersaturated standard color profile which was uncorrectable even with an external 3D LUT and their manual gamma controls that only worked correctly every other generation, but since the standard colour profile is now slightly oversaturated and the JVC Autocal solves all these issues, I'm a happy camper. They haven't fixed their CMS but it's not necessary anymore, so why complain?

The only downside - apart from the lack of proper documentation - is that we have to find a relatively accurate Spyder, but it's possible. Even the not so good ones like the two Spyder 5 I've rejected are not appalling and would provide a significant improvement that would make 90% of users happy after a few hundred hours. I only rejected them because they were worse than my golden Spyder4, not because they were bad for their intended use, which is to provide along with the Autocal software a way to get 80% there calibration-wise.

Last edited by Manni01; 06-10-2016 at 01:08 AM.
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