JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 4166 Old 12-26-2015, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
The main advantage of the JVC Autocal software is to provide a near perfect baseline with flat gamma and perfectly tracking gamut without the need for an external correction. For example, you can't passthrough 3D blurays or 4K content with an eecolor, and 4K content can't be calibrated by a non-pro Radiance.

...
Thank you Manni! This post is a keeper. I was aware of eeColor's limitations and planned to take it out of the chain if I ever want to try 3D. I'm also not looking forward to 4k in the near future. But these are also reasons I was interested in the auto-cal.

Thanks again!
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post #62 of 4166 Old 12-26-2015, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Thank you Manni! This post is a keeper. I was aware of eeColor's limitations and planned to take it out of the chain if I ever want to try 3D. I'm also not looking forward to 4k in the near future. But these are also reasons I was interested in the auto-cal.

Thanks again!
You're welcome

I've added a few links in the first post, including a link to this post and a link to a discussion about the accuracy of the Spyder meters and how to check them against a known reference.
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post #63 of 4166 Old 12-29-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
You're welcome

I've added a few links in the first post, including a link to this post and a link to a discussion about the accuracy of the Spyder meters and how to check them against a known reference.
Before calibrating, would I set the brightness and contrast with Speers and Munsil or AVS calibration disc or does the autocal software take care of this?
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post #64 of 4166 Old 12-29-2015, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Before calibrating, would I set the brightness and contrast with Speers and Munsil or AVS calibration disc or does the autocal software take care of this?
It won't hurt - provided they are set correctly - but as far as I can see all settings are ignored during a calibration. For example, if you set 100% white to D65 before an autocal, better do it again after because your gains corrections are likely way too strong (autocal corrects all the presets, so the corrections should be much less afterwards, which can lead to a brightness gain). Also make sure you check both 6500K and 7000K after an autocal, depending on the calibration, one can give you more brightness/contrast that the other when setting the gains to D65.

I keep my brightness/contrast before an autocal and only check they are still correct afterwards. Usually, the autocal won't affect these.
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post #65 of 4166 Old 01-02-2016, 01:03 PM
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In regards to calibrating a JVC RS500, if one already owns a Lumagen XS with a 125 point (5x5x5) CMS would they be better off buying an i1D3 pro meter with say Chromapure 3 software or just scrapping the Lumagen and getting a Sypder 4 or 5?

What are the benefits and drawbacks of the the Lumagen/i1D3 Pro meter/Chromapure vs the Spyder 4 or 5?
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post #66 of 4166 Old 01-02-2016, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
In regards to calibrating a JVC RS500, if one already owns a Lumagen XS with a 125 point (5x5x5) CMS would they be better off buying an i1D3 pro meter with say Chromapure 3 software or just scrapping the Lumagen and getting a Sypder 4 or 5?

What are the benefits and drawbacks of the the Lumagen/i1D3 Pro meter/Chromapure vs the Spyder 4 or 5?
I went through this myself. Does your Lumagen support 3D or 4K? Are either important to you? Also I think the in-projector calibration can save calibrations for each setting, as the grayscale seems to vary with almost anything you change, including iris and lamp power. Am I wrong? I'm just going off the top of my head right now, as I'm CALIBRATING using my Lumagen and CalMAN.
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post #67 of 4166 Old 01-02-2016, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
In regards to calibrating a JVC RS500, if one already owns a Lumagen XS with a 125 point (5x5x5) CMS would they be better off buying an i1D3 pro meter with say Chromapure 3 software or just scrapping the Lumagen and getting a Sypder 4 or 5?

What are the benefits and drawbacks of the the Lumagen/i1D3 Pro meter/Chromapure vs the Spyder 4 or 5?

You could start with the first post, you would have found this link


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post40044458
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post #68 of 4166 Old 01-02-2016, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
I went through this myself. Does your Lumagen support 3D or 4K? Are either important to you? Also I think the in-projector calibration can save calibrations for each setting, as the grayscale seems to vary with almost anything you change, including iris and lamp power. Am I wrong? I'm just going off the top of my head right now, as I'm CALIBRATING using my Lumagen and CalMAN.
I do have 3D on my Lumagen XS and 3d is important to me. Currently not really using 4k yet and so currently it it not important to me.

I guess CalMAN and ChromaPure are similar or is one considered better then the other in regards to a Lumgen XS 3D /RS500?

Also if I got the ChromaPure I would also get the Advanced Auto-Calibrate. Any comments on whether this is a good idea?

Last edited by Frank D; 01-02-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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post #69 of 4166 Old 01-02-2016, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
You could start with the first post, you would have found this link


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post40044458
Thanks. I did read that but I probably need to read it again.
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post #70 of 4166 Old 01-02-2016, 02:40 PM
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I do have 3D on my Lumagen XS and 3d is important to me. Currently not really using 4k yet and so currently it it not important to me.

I guess CalMAN and ChromaPure are similar or is one considered better then the other in regards to a Lumgen XS 3D /RS500?

Also if I got the ChromaPure I would also get the Advanced Auto-Calibrate. Any comments on whether this is a good idea?
I'm not sure anymore, but I think CalMAN and ChromaPure are roughly equivalent in capability. It's been a while since I've compared. I got CalMAN Enthusiast with a C6 colorometer.

Yes! Get advanced Auto-Calibrate! It's awesome. A nice gamma contributes roughly 1/2 of the picture quality. And LUT capability is a real break-through for home-theater. Though I just got done calibrating my RS500 and it tracks really well without the saturation axis, but I did it anyway.

All-in-all... RS500 with a good LUT calibration = spectacular! I haven't had enough time to watch more than parts of one thing (Pride and Prejudice), but it's very impressive. Going to walk the dog with my wife now, so no more viewing 'till later.
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post #71 of 4166 Old 01-03-2016, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I've added to the first post a link to a post I've just made in the old V5 Autocal thread as it's mostly relevant for 2015 models with V5, but there are some elements - for example why and how using a screen type can slightly improve brightness - which could be relevant to the new models / new software, so here goes:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post40263266

It's mainly about the mystery of the restoration of brightness by the JVC Autocal on my X500, which is finally solved (I think!).

I now understand why these evil environment settings have been culled from the new f/w in the new models.

It's a must read for anyone with a 2014 model, whether they use the JVC Autocal or not, as these settings can potentially badly damage your picture.
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post #72 of 4166 Old 01-11-2016, 09:57 AM
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I'm using a ColorMunki and HCFR right now to set grayscale on my RS500. I've never had the change to confirm this meter's accuracy against a known good reference but figure it's better than nothing.

(Shameful trolling: Anyone in the SF Bay Area that has a known good meter and would be willing to let me compare my ColorMunki versus yours, I'll buy the beer/pizza.)

I'm holding off on autocal until the Spyder5 is supported. By that time I'll probably have a 100-200 hours on the projector and should have had a professional calibration from Accucal (depending on Jeff's travel schedule). My intention that would be to assume that the projector is tracking grayscale and gamut well -- and that would tell me whether my Munki is accurate (and, if it is not, by how much and in what areas it is off, letting me compensatt for that in the future).

I am ALSO thinking that once the projector is calibrated by a pro, I can baseline the Spyder5 and that would tell me how close the Spyder is to accurate. BUT I would not be able to create some correction that would compensate for the inaccuracy of the Spyder5, right? (So really what I would be doing is deciding whether to exchange the Spyder5 for another unit, if the one I have is significantly far from accurate.)

Am I missing any opportunity to do better?
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post #73 of 4166 Old 01-11-2016, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Nathan,

Whatever you do, don't run an autocal after a pro calibration or it will wipe it. You can run one beforehand, or ask your calibrator to run one for you before he fine-tunes it, although most won't bother I guess.

Yes once your calibrator has calibrated, you can check the spyder in the same mode, but it would be better to compare the spyder against the reference meter your calibrator uses, and preferably with the same software, during the same session. Too many variables otherwise.
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post #74 of 4166 Old 01-11-2016, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Hi Nathan,

Whatever you do, don't run an autocal after a pro calibration or it will wipe it. You can run one beforehand, or ask your calibrator to run one for you before he fine-tunes it, although most won't bother I guess.

Yes once your calibrator has calibrated, you can check the spyder in the same mode, but it would be better to compare the spyder against the reference meter your calibrator uses, and preferably with the same software, during the same session. Too many variables otherwise.
Okay, and if I am reading this thread correctly, I also assume that the INIT backup file does not contain any of the user settings -- so saving the INIT file AFTER a manual calibration wouldn't buy me a "backup" of what the calibrator did since INIT ignores most user settings that the calibrator would have adjusted.

It's ALMOST to the point where one would want a calibrator to make use of the autocal software....
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post #75 of 4166 Old 01-11-2016, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes and yes.
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post #76 of 4166 Old 01-11-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

It's ALMOST to the point where one would want a calibrator to make use of the autocal software....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Yes and yes.
Manni, I was thinking about this too.

Does a calibrator have the ability to get the same level of granularity on gray scale as the autocal? If not, it would seam like the calibrator *must* use the autocal first to insure they are getting the best gray scale tracking. Am I missing something?

Thanks!!

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post #77 of 4166 Old 01-11-2016, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The same degree of granularity, no, as the Autocal provides up to 33 points for gamma, but depending on the unit the internal controls can be enough.

If the calibrator install/calibrates an external 3D Lut, then the Autocal becomes less important, but without an external correction the Autocal is the best way to get a decent baseline, and then do a minimal touch up using either the internal controls.
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post #78 of 4166 Old 01-12-2016, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
The same degree of granularity, no, as the Autocal provides up to 33 points for gamma, but depending on the unit the internal controls can be enough.

If the calibrator install/calibrates an external 3D Lut, then the Autocal becomes less important, but without an external correction the Autocal is the best way to get a decent baseline, and then do a minimal touch up using either the internal controls.
First off Manni - thanks for the wealth of information and guidance in this thread. The data in here really gives us newbs the can do feeling .

The above is the exact reason I have held off on a pro calibrator for my RS500. The results with a reasonable meter (picked up a Spyder 4 on the river which tracked well against my Chromapure profiled i1Display) is outstanding after following the guide provided (really like the rec 709 profile you provided, now where is the 2020 version ). I have even taken my radiance out of the equation and am now relying strictly on the Autocal and MadVR for my critical viewing. For TV and Netflix the base Autocal minus additional LUT is good enough. Once I hit the magical 100-150 hour mark I plan to run another Autocal and venture into the world of 4K (Shield or Roku 4 as xmas presents are ready to go).

In search of video bliss...
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post #79 of 4166 Old 01-12-2016, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post
First off Manni - thanks for the wealth of information and guidance in this thread. The data in here really gives us newbs the can do feeling .

The above is the exact reason I have held off on a pro calibrator for my RS500. The results with a reasonable meter (picked up a Spyder 4 on the river which tracked well against my Chromapure profiled i1Display) is outstanding after following the guide provided (really like the rec 709 profile you provided, now where is the 2020 version ). I have even taken my radiance out of the equation and am now relying strictly on the Autocal and MadVR for my critical viewing. For TV and Netflix the base Autocal minus additional LUT is good enough. Once I hit the magical 100-150 hour mark I plan to run another Autocal and venture into the world of 4K (Shield or Roku 4 as xmas presents are ready to go).

You're welcome

I've updated the first post with the following profiles, in addition to the rec-709 profile I had already shared:

Rec-709F (for those who want to see if the filter helps them to get better black levels, beware the saturations might be worse with that one)
DCI-P3F and DCI-P3NF (made using the standard DCI option offered by the software)
REC-2020F and REC-2020NF (made using standard rec2020 coordinates, although this is not an option offered by the software).

More info on each of these profiles in the first post.
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post #80 of 4166 Old 01-12-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
You're welcome

I've updated the first post with the following profiles, in addition to the rec-709 profile I had already shared:

Rec-709F (for those who want to see if the filter helps them to get better black levels, beware the saturations might be worse with that one)
DCI-P3F and DCI-P3NF (made using the standard DCI option offered by the software)
REC-2020F and REC-2020NF (made using standard rec2020 coordinates, although this is not an option offered by the software).

More info on each of these profiles in the first post.
Awesome. Thanks.

To use 709F one should be in THX mode? Or is there another way to engage the filter?
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post #81 of 4166 Old 01-12-2016, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Awesome. Thanks.

To use 709F one should be in THX mode? Or is there another way to engage the filter?
The filter will be engaged if you select rec-709F in any of the preset which allow you to select custom colour profiles, so definitely all the user modes (user1, user2, etc or whatever you have renamed them to).

It's the colour profile that triggers the filter, not the user mode. THX calls the filter because it uses a color profiles defined as using the filter. I don't think it allows to call a custom colour profile.

In other words, when you create the custom color profile in the JVC software, if you specify the filter during the creation of the filter, the filter will be called whenever that colour profile is in use, so during the Autocal as well. So all my "F" colour profiles engage the filter, all my "NF" colour profiles don't.
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post #82 of 4166 Old 01-12-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
The filter will be engaged if you select rec-709F in any of the preset which allow you to select custom colour profiles, so definitely all the user modes (user1, user2, etc or whatever you have renamed them to).

It's the colour profile that triggers the filter, not the user mode. THX calls the filter because it uses a color profiles defined as using the filter. I don't think it allows to call a custom colour profile.

In other words, when you create the custom color profile in the JVC software, if you specify the filter during the creation of the filter, the filter will be called whenever that colour profile is in use, so during the Autocal as well. So all my "F" colour profiles engage the filter, all my "NF" colour profiles don't.

Thanks and ostensibly I could use these custom presets even without a meter -- just load them via the autocal software -- right?
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post #83 of 4166 Old 01-13-2016, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks and ostensibly I could use these custom presets even without a meter -- just load them via the autocal software -- right?

Correct, although all the custom profiles I shared deliver a much better linearity if you autocal them with the JVC software once you have imported them in the projector. At least that's what I noticed for rec-709 and DCI-P3, I didn't have a chance to do much testing with the rec2020 profiles.


Still, you can use them without a meter.
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post #84 of 4166 Old 01-13-2016, 08:20 AM
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Good, thanks. Because the old meters that are for sale appear to be just the dregs, used, and or overpriced. And the new Spyder isn't supported, yet. So I'm in a holding pattern.

(Unless someone in the SF Bay Area wants to loan me their Spyder 4 for a day..... or I'll supply beer and pizza for entertainment, if they don't want to let it out of their site.)
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post #85 of 4166 Old 01-14-2016, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
It won't hurt - provided they are set correctly - but as far as I can see all settings are ignored during a calibration. For example, if you set 100% white to D65 before an autocal, better do it again after because your gains corrections are likely way too strong (autocal corrects all the presets, so the corrections should be much less afterwards, which can lead to a brightness gain). Also make sure you check both 6500K and 7000K after an autocal, depending on the calibration, one can give you more brightness/contrast that the other when setting the gains to D65.

I keep my brightness/contrast before an autocal and only check they are still correct afterwards. Usually, the autocal won't affect these.
Excellent guide. Can you clarify which settings we need to check on the projector itself before autocrat? It seems that Clearblack, eshift, etc. Should be off, but don't follow your comments above.
or
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post #86 of 4166 Old 01-14-2016, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
It won't hurt - provided they are set correctly - but as far as I can see all settings are ignored during a calibration. For example, if you set 100% white to D65 before an autocal, better do it again after because your gains corrections are likely way too strong (autocal corrects all the presets, so the corrections should be much less afterwards, which can lead to a brightness gain). Also make sure you check both 6500K and 7000K after an autocal, depending on the calibration, one can give you more brightness/contrast that the other when setting the gains to D65.

I keep my brightness/contrast before an autocal and only check they are still correct afterwards. Usually, the autocal won't affect these.
Excellent guide. Can you clarify which settings we need to check on the projector itself before autocrat? It seems that Clearblack, eshift, etc. Should be off, but don't follow your comments above.
or
I was talking about calibration settings. It's up to you if you want to calibrate with eshift on or off. I wouldn't calibrate with clear black on, but if you always use it, I don't think it would be detrimental, as it doesn't impact black levels or low APL patterns but gives more apparent sharpness and contrast to the picture. I don't think clear black has much effect on patterns.
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post #87 of 4166 Old 01-16-2016, 08:01 AM
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Lamp Power and 3D

Hello,
Thank you for the great info. I have 3 questions:


1) You have indicated to repeat the color calibration for each CMD/IRIS combo that I want to use. How about Lamp Power? If I calibrated on Low Lamp for IRIS 0, 5, 10, with CMD LOW and OFF, do I now have to calibrate on High Lamp for those same settings?

2) I do enjoy 3D. Are these profiles that I have created applicable to 3D image modes (other than the effect of the glasses of course).

3) For custom color profiles: Lets say that I want custom 709, p3, and 2020 profiles. Do I need to perform a gamma/gamut/color calibration one each of Standard/Natural/Reference modes, or is it good enough that I have performed a gamma/gamut/color calibration on Standard?
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post #88 of 4166 Old 01-16-2016, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,
Thank you for the great info. I have 3 questions:


1) You have indicated to repeat the color calibration for each CMD/IRIS combo that I want to use. How about Lamp Power? If I calibrated on Low Lamp for IRIS 0, 5, 10, with CMD LOW and OFF, do I now have to calibrate on High Lamp for those same settings?

2) I do enjoy 3D. Are these profiles that I have created applicable to 3D image modes (other than the effect of the glasses of course).

3) For custom color profiles: Lets say that I want custom 709, p3, and 2020 profiles. Do I need to perform a gamma/gamut/color calibration one each of Standard/Natural/Reference modes, or is it good enough that I have performed a gamma/gamut/color calibration on Standard?

1) Yes
2) Yes, but you will have to calibrate a preset specifically for 3D. If you use a standard preset, a 3D preset is switched to automatically, so you could select at least a custom color temp for that, or you could assign a new user preset for 3D and calibrate it. With 3D, I only select my rec-709NF colour profile set 100% white to D65, I don't do anything else.
3) As per the step-by-step, you only need to do gamma once. They you do color with a standard colour profile at each of the iris setting, lamp mode, CMD setting you want to use, and last you run a colour autocal once for each custom color profile. As rec-709, consumer P3 and rec-2020 all use D65 for the white point (unlike cinema DCI), there shouldn't be a reason for separate greyscale calibration, but I haven't tested this extensively yet. It didn't seem to be necessary.
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post #89 of 4166 Old 01-16-2016, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
1) Yes
2) Yes, but you will have to calibrate a preset specifically for 3D. If you use a standard preset, a 3D preset is switched to automatically, so you could select at least a custom color temp for that, or you could assign a new user preset for 3D and calibrate it. With 3D, I only select my rec-709NF colour profile set 100% white to D65, I don't do anything else.
3) As per the step-by-step, you only need to do gamma once. They you do color with a standard colour profile at each of the iris setting, lamp mode, CMD setting you want to use, and last you run a colour autocal once for each custom color profile. As rec-709, consumer P3 and rec-2020 all use D65 for the white point (unlike cinema DCI), there shouldn't be a reason for separate greyscale calibration, but I haven't tested this extensively yet. It didn't seem to be necessary.
Thanks. I think my confusion is with your use of the term "standard". I think when you say "Standard", you mean any "preset" color profile, rather than the specific STANDARD color profile. I would like to clarify the following :

1) select any preset color profile (Standard, Natural, or Reference)

2) run a gamma, color, gamut calibration for a wide open Iris, high power, and cmd off, for your selected preset color profile.

3) run a color calibration for all other desired Iris, power, and cmd combinations for your selected preset color profile.

4) for each additional preset color profile you want calibrated, run a color only calibration for a single Iris, power, and cmd combination.

5) for each custom profile you want calibrated, run a color only calibration for a single Iris, power, and cmd combination.

Did I get this right ?

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post #90 of 4166 Old 01-16-2016, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loganross View Post
Thanks. I think my confusion is with your use of the term "standard". I think when you say "Standard", you mean any "preset" color profile, rather than the specific STANDARD color profile. I would like to clarify the following :

1) select any preset color profile (Standard, Natural, or Reference)

2) run a gamma, color, gamut calibration for a wide open Iris, high power, and cmd off, for your selected preset color profile.

3) run a color calibration for all other desired Iris, power, and cmd combinations for your selected preset color profile.

4) for each additional preset color profile you want calibrated, run a color only calibration for a single Iris, power, and cmd combination.

5) for each custom profile you want calibrated, run a color only calibration for a single Iris, power, and cmd combination.

Did I get this right ?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Sounds about right
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