JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 4161 Old 04-23-2017, 04:40 AM
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Using the Masciola Black clipping patters

I am very much the novice but I have been working on getting my projector set (RS400) with a baseline calibration (including BT2020 and HDR). I've done the autocal (v7, Spyder 5) and had some fun with Arve's tool and getting dramatic improvement across the board. Of course I've read and studied the many posts on the subject from Manni and others (my wife thinks I'm a bit obsessed!). The last step for me (for now) is to get the bbi/bbo settings reasonably correct on the custom curves I've loaded in. Rather than trust my eyeballs I went ahead and downloaded the Masciola patterns and I've run both the #1 and #2 set. I was guessing that the way it worked is that the black level output would reflect as pure black on the screen for everything below the floor coming off the projector (crushed) and everything above would be gray(er) or flashing. I not sure what I should observe because I'm not very clear on that part. Unfortunately, using Manni's settings as a baseline (0.005/0.02), everything is black. I assume I probably need to raise the bbo level but I'm not even sure I'm on the right track with my method. . Another thing is that if I let the video play too long it causes the projector to go into protection mode and shut down. It seems to be fine when I restart but it tells me I really don't know what I'm doing and I need to stop guessing a little bit. Could I get one of you gents to provide a little direction this? I feel like I'm so close but yet sooo far....
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post #1742 of 4161 Old 04-25-2017, 01:53 AM
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Hdr greyscale calibration

I used Jvc internal Pattern generator for greyscale correction on Hdr. Is this way correct? Visually I think that is ok

Last edited by saltanar; 04-25-2017 at 02:35 AM.
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post #1743 of 4161 Old 04-25-2017, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj_offshore View Post
I am very much the novice but I have been working on getting my projector set (RS400) with a baseline calibration (including BT2020 and HDR). I've done the autocal (v7, Spyder 5) and had some fun with Arve's tool and getting dramatic improvement across the board. Of course I've read and studied the many posts on the subject from Manni and others (my wife thinks I'm a bit obsessed!). The last step for me (for now) is to get the bbi/bbo settings reasonably correct on the custom curves I've loaded in. Rather than trust my eyeballs I went ahead and downloaded the Masciola patterns and I've run both the #1 and #2 set. I was guessing that the way it worked is that the black level output would reflect as pure black on the screen for everything below the floor coming off the projector (crushed) and everything above would be gray(er) or flashing. I not sure what I should observe because I'm not very clear on that part. Unfortunately, using Manni's settings as a baseline (0.005/0.02), everything is black. I assume I probably need to raise the bbo level but I'm not even sure I'm on the right track with my method. . Another thing is that if I let the video play too long it causes the projector to go into protection mode and shut down. It seems to be fine when I restart but it tells me I really don't know what I'm doing and I need to stop guessing a little bit. Could I get one of you gents to provide a little direction this? I feel like I'm so close but yet sooo far....
The test patterns running cause the projector to lockup? SJ
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post #1744 of 4161 Old 04-25-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SJHT View Post
The test patterns running cause the projector to lockup? SJ
Yes. Twice when I let the black patterns file run and I was spending a few minutes trying to figure out what I was supposed to be seeing (on the screen) the projector went into protection mode. I'm not quite sure what would have caused that.

I've since come to understand how the patterns files work and I've also been careful to pause and/or rewind the file while I select one of the custom gamma options and make adjustments to brightness. I have not let the file run to the end since those incidents and I have not had a recurrence of the problem with the projector shutting down. The only other change to procedure was to set the DI to manual to insure that the iris remained fully open throughout the process. I wouldn't expect this to make any difference (DI is supposed to be disabled in HDR mode anyway) but I haven't turned it back on to verify.
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post #1745 of 4161 Old 04-25-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj_offshore View Post
Yes. Twice when I let the black patterns file run and I was spending a few minutes trying to figure out what I was supposed to be seeing (on the screen) the projector went into protection mode. I'm not quite sure what would have caused that.

I've since come to understand how the patterns files work and I've also been careful to pause and/or rewind the file while I select one of the custom gamma options and make adjustments to brightness. I have not let the file run to the end since those incidents and I have not had a recurrence of the problem with the projector shutting down. The only other change to procedure was to set the DI to manual to insure that the iris remained fully open throughout the process. I wouldn't expect this to make any difference (DI is supposed to be disabled in HDR mode anyway) but I haven't turned it back on to verify.
I should qualify that I don't know if running the patterns file caused the lock-up or if it was caused by the termination state of the projector when the file runs to completion. It doesn't seem to be an issue while the file is running or paused and I suspect something isn't terminating gracefully when eof is reached. I'm guessing on this of course.
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post #1746 of 4161 Old 04-27-2017, 01:57 PM
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autocal after importing my custom curve?

Hi guys,
I've a doubt: I've created my custom curve for HDR content with Arve's tool and imported it into my pj.
Now ... Do I've to do an autocal?

Another question:
Do do verifications i normally use Calman. Is there any way to import (or create) in Calman my arves custom curve to verify the final result?

thank you
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post #1747 of 4161 Old 04-27-2017, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelioX View Post
Hi guys,
I've a doubt: I've created my custom curve for HDR content with Arve's tool and imported it into my pj.
Now ... Do I've to do an autocal?
You still need to do autocal which forms the "base" for the custom curve, unless your custom curve is based on actual measurements which would already account for the non-linearities.
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post #1748 of 4161 Old 04-28-2017, 01:38 AM
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Hdr calibration with Calman

Please someone can confirm that I can use the internal Jvc pattern generator for Hdr calibration on Calman?
Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by saltanar View Post
I used Jvc internal Pattern generator for greyscale correction on Hdr. Is this way correct? Visually I think that is ok
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post #1749 of 4161 Old 04-28-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You still need to do autocal which forms the "base" for the custom curve, unless your custom curve is based on actual measurements which would already account for the non-linearities.
Hi Thank you.
No I've created my custom curve without any pre-measurement.

Ok so I can go on with the autocal.
Thank you
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post #1750 of 4161 Old 04-28-2017, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltanar View Post
Please someone can confirm that I can use the internal Jvc pattern generator for Hdr calibration on Calman?
Thanks.
I don't think you can.
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post #1751 of 4161 Old 04-28-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelioX View Post
Hi Thank you.
No I've created my custom curve without any pre-measurement.

Ok so I can go on with the autocal.
Thank you
Autocal first.

THEN use Arve's tool and the awesome guide (see my sig).
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post #1752 of 4161 Old 04-30-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Autocal first.

THEN use Arve's tool and the awesome guide (see my sig).
So I popped hadn't popped in to AVSforum for a really long time. Not since December.

I'm surprised to see that there have been a LOT of updates in terms of HDR on the JVC. I'm also glad to see that the Dynamic Iris works with HDR when paired with a Linker. I just want to confirm that there aren't too many issues when using with an Oppo?

I'll be going through all the discussions but I thought I'd place an order for the Linker as it will take time to arrive. I just want to confirm that it enables the iris in HDR with an Oppo.
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post #1753 of 4161 Old 04-30-2017, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
So I popped hadn't popped in to AVSforum for a really long time. Not since December.

I'm surprised to see that there have been a LOT of updates in terms of HDR on the JVC. I'm also glad to see that the Dynamic Iris works with HDR when paired with a Linker. I just want to confirm that there aren't too many issues when using with an Oppo?

I'll be going through all the discussions but I thought I'd place an order for the Linker as it will take time to arrive. I just want to confirm that it enables the iris in HDR with an Oppo.
I believe it works BUT I don't have that combo so I cannot confirm from personal experience.

BTW I realize people love the dynamic iris but getting HDR 'gamma' correct with Arve's tool (or even just uploading one using the JVC tool) is 80% or 90% of the improvements people have discovered. The iris is just that final 10% (imo) of icing on the cake.
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post #1754 of 4161 Old 05-01-2017, 10:51 AM
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I'm started with a simple rec 709 autocalibration.

There is a thing that I do not undestrand :

The only way to have no "-" in the autocal results about gamma and white point is to set this on the pj:

Color profile = standard
Color temp = d65
Gamma= normal

If I set any other combination (for example gamma 2.4)

I obtain the "-" simbol at the end.
😢
Can someone explain me why?
Or
Can you link an esaustive step-by-step guide?

Thank you so much.
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post #1755 of 4161 Old 05-01-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FidelioX View Post
I'm started with a simple rec 709 autocalibration.

There is a thing that I do not undestrand :

The only way to have no "-" in the autocal results about gamma and white point is to set this on the pj:

Color profile = standard
Color temp = d65
Gamma= normal

If I set any other combination (for example gamma 2.4)

I obtain the "-" simbol at the end.
😢
Can someone explain me why?
Or
Can you link an esaustive step-by-step guide?

Thank you so much.
For an exhaustive step by step, see the links in the first post of this thread. Your setup of color profile, temp and gamma is correct. Do the gamma + color auto cal and then use the settings in the JVC menu afterward to tweak (or create a custom color profile).
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post #1756 of 4161 Old 05-01-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
For an exhaustive step by step, see the links in the first post of this thread. Your setup of color profile, temp and gamma is correct. Do the gamma + color auto cal and then use the settings in the JVC menu afterward to tweak (or create a custom color profile).
So you're telling me that after an autocal pointing to gamma "normal" all the other curves stored in the projector (2.1 ,2.2 ,2.3, ecc.) are automatically tuned?
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post #1757 of 4161 Old 05-01-2017, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FidelioX View Post
So you're telling me that after an autocal pointing to gamma "normal" all the other curves stored in the projector (2.1 ,2.2 ,2.3, ecc.) are automatically tuned?


Bingo!
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post #1758 of 4161 Old 05-01-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I believe it works BUT I don't have that combo so I cannot confirm from personal experience.

BTW I realize people love the dynamic iris but getting HDR 'gamma' correct with Arve's tool (or even just uploading one using the JVC tool) is 80% or 90% of the improvements people have discovered. The iris is just that final 10% (imo) of icing on the cake.

Thank you!
I searched through the forum and according to HDFury and a few others, the Linker works with the Oppo. I just placed an order.

So I read up quite a bit on custom gammas and all the posts by Manni, LovingDVD, zombie10k, and Javs as well. LovingDVD's guide on creating a custom gamma seems easy enough to follow-- basically boiling down to using a scene with lots of nits and adjusting the contrast until detail isn't lost. I don't have Pan but I plan on using this scene from Batman v Superman to do it:




So technically, reducing the contrast until I can get some detail should do the trick, right?
I don't have Calman or any other meters to do a more professional calibration. Should I do another curve for a 1000 nit movie? Is there a list of the nits each UHD is mastered at?


Before I try making my own custom curve, I'm thinking of first downloading one of the many that have been created by Manni on the first page. The choice is a little overwhelming. I have a 140 inch screen and my throw distance is around 20 ft. I have white walls so I guess that counts as light leakage. My lamp is new (140 hours) and I plan on running it on High with the iris fully open to make up for the throw distance and screen size.
Which curves would you recommend I start with?



As for using the clipping patterns, are there any posts that go into more detail on how to use them or at least what to target? My UHD copy of The Shallows is on its way so can I use the patterns on that or would you recommend buying them?
Do you guys use separate targets based on the nits at which the UHD is mastered?


I understand that these are a lot of questions and I really do appreciate all the time and effort you guys put into making this a noob-friendly place.
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post #1759 of 4161 Old 05-01-2017, 05:05 PM
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I would say that that scene is not a bad one to use. I don't know it in particular BUT that disk makes good use of highlights, and is a 4000 nit mastered disc, so that's a good sign.

STEP 1) Before doing any of these things, use the autocal program just the way it's intended by JVC. You will need to get and use a specific meter to do that. This is required in order to get good results.

STEP 2) To use Arve's tool, with the guide, you don't need a meter, but it assumes you have run autocal already with a meter and got things dialed in with the JVC autocal tool -- which requires a meter -- first.

When you say "Adjust Contrast" that's sort of right. With Arve's tool (see links in my sig) while you do use the contrast control, at the end of the process, you end up with Contrast on the JVC set to ZERO. The Arve tool has redefined zero to be correct, based on the process.

If you follow the guide in my sig, for the Arve tool, you will only need clipping patterns for the black level. You might be able to fudge it with the test pattern easter egg on the Sony UHD discs. I ponied up for the Masciola patterns. And the guides assume you have those patterns.
--

EASIER STEP 2) Yes, instead of using Arve's tool, you can use a pre-made curve. You load it with the autocal program. This can get you a long way towards a good solution. With a screen that large, using Manni's so-called Dolby Cinema curve is not a bad choice. There is a link to that file in the first post of this thread.
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Last edited by nathan_h; 05-02-2017 at 04:28 PM.
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post #1760 of 4161 Old 05-02-2017, 02:51 PM
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Hi guys, new owner of rs520 i'm trying to connect my laptop to the projector via straight network cable. When I press check in the software, ver 9, it says in red CONNECT NG. Any help is appreciated.
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post #1761 of 4161 Old 05-03-2017, 09:35 AM
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OK, I figured it out. I thought I would give the procedure I used connecting a windows 10 pc directly to the projector in case someone else might be struggling like I was. Right click on the windows icon in lower left and choose network connections. On left click on Ethernet. Choose change adapter options. Right click on Ethernet device and choose properties. Look for internet protocol version 4 (TCP/IPv4). Click on that and choose properties. Then check Use The Following IP Address. Then I used IP address 192.168.0.1, Subnet mask 255.255.255.0, default gateway 192.168.0.254. On the projector I used 192.168.0.2. It connected right up. I just wanted to do a manual 2.4 gamma curve off the screen using chromapure and my i1 display, which works well now.
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post #1762 of 4161 Old 05-03-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I would say that that scene is not a bad one to use. I don't know it in particular BUT that disk makes good use of highlights, and is a 4000 nit mastered disc, so that's a good sign.

STEP 1) Before doing any of these things, use the autocal program just the way it's intended by JVC. You will need to get and use a specific meter to do that. This is required in order to get good results.

STEP 2) To use Arve's tool, with the guide, you don't need a meter, but it assumes you have run autocal already with a meter and got things dialed in with the JVC autocal tool -- which requires a meter -- first.

When you say "Adjust Contrast" that's sort of right. With Arve's tool (see links in my sig) while you do use the contrast control, at the end of the process, you end up with Contrast on the JVC set to ZERO. The Arve tool has redefined zero to be correct, based on the process.

If you follow the guide in my sig, for the Arve tool, you will only need clipping patterns for the black level. You might be able to fudge it with the test pattern easter egg on the Sony UHD discs. I ponied up for the Masciola patterns. And the guides assume you have those patterns.
--

EASIER STEP 2) Yes, instead of using Arve's tool, you can use a pre-made curve. You load it with the autocal program. This can get you a long way towards a good solution. With a screen that large, using Manni's so-called Dolby Cinema curve is not a bad choice. There is a link to that file in the first post of this thread.

I've already done the Autocal with a Spyder. I did a gamma-only calibration (once in low lamp and then again in high lamp), and a color-only calibration for rec.709 as well as bt.2020. (I was running a normal BD when doing bt.2020, but that doesn't matter, right?)

My main doubts pertain to using the Masciola patterns. Once I've gotten the custom curve setup, to which bar am I supposed to clip the blacks and whites? The PDF guide says for the brightness, bar 68 should be barely visible. What about whites?

I've downloaded the free demo as well on the main Masciola thread but I'm not sure how to use the files as it's not exactly a scale.

The Masciola patterns is the only part which is a little unclear to me. The rest of the calibration instructions are very detailed and clear.


EDIT:
I've just read that brightness and contrast is to be set to 0,0 when using Manni's curves.
Could help with how to use the wip tool with a clipping pattern? Lovingdvd's instruction need a movie to adjust the curve. The rest of his instructions are clear but what do I target if I'm using a Masciola pattern instead?

Last edited by srinivas1015; 05-03-2017 at 01:24 PM.
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post #1763 of 4161 Old 05-03-2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
I've already done the Autocal with a Spyder. I did a gamma-only calibration (once in low lamp and then again in high lamp), and a color-only calibration for rec.709 as well as bt.2020. (I was running a normal BD when doing bt.2020, but that doesn't matter, right?)
About this I am not sure. I outsourced this to Chad_B because he was doing a complete setup for me.

Quote:
My main doubts pertain to using the Masciola patterns. Once I've gotten the custom curve setup, to which bar am I supposed to clip the blacks and whites? The PDF guide says for the brightness, bar 68 should be barely visible. What about whites?
I did not use the PDF guide. I used the WIP version of Arve's tool and this guide:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post51467921



Quote:
I've downloaded the free demo as well on the main Masciola thread but I'm not sure how to use the files as it's not exactly a scale.

The Masciola patterns is the only part which is a little unclear to me. The rest of the calibration instructions are very detailed and clear.
I found it necessary to do contrast first, then black levels, per this guide:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post51467921

For contrast, you don't need the test patterns. That frame you quoted above works well.

For black level, you want to clip more than what you describe, and I used the Masciola patterns (paid version). I don't think there is a black level pattern in the free samples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
OK so I am about to distill a ton of research and experimentation into a very simple process you can follow to create your own custom curve. I am not going to go into the details of where to get the tools and setting them up - that's been covered elsewhere. Also this is not meant to be "all encompassing" so you may need to do more research to understand some of what I'm talking about here. Rather, the goal is to give you the quick steps to get your own curve up and running. So here ya go:

[Note that much of this is from memory - I need to revisit this and double check a few things, so for now consider this a draft]

1. Start with the latest version of Arve's tool from the wip branch.

2. Select a custom gamma slot, such as Custom 1, in the JVC. Change the correction value to "Import"

3. Set your contrast and brightness to 0 in the JVC and in your sources such as Panasonic UB900. This assumes Standard HDMI type.

4. Run Arve's tool menu.py.

5. Select lp, then option 2. This loads a default HDR curve into the tool.

6. Make sure your source is outputting HDR and not SDR BT2020.

7. Bring up a HDR image you want to test with. I use the "sky scene" in Pan at 18:55. However this scene only resolves up to 2750 nits. Although this is a good choice for those with large screens and low peak white nits (below 100, I only have about 45), if you have above 100 nits you'll be better off using a scene that resolves up to 4000 nits. Mad Max is often mentioned for this. You can find examples of scenes in a picture comparison thread several pages back. Note that I recommend using an actual scene (paused) from a HDR movie for this and not a white clipping pattern. The reason is because the clipping pattern can still show bars but crush in between. The best way to determine this is therefore with an actual scene. Certainly you can try it with a clipping pattern if you'd like to compare the results to doing the same approach with a scene from a movie, but if you only want to do it once, use a movie scene not a pattern for this.

8. Enter ga in the tool (gamma adjust). This will bring up a new menu.

9. Use option 3 "tune with contrast". This will load the tool's default HDR curve into the JVC and prepare itself for your contrast control adjustment (see next step).

10. Your image will be highly crushed in this initial state. See attached pan-sky-initial image. Lower contrast to the point where the crush is gone. See pan-sky-contrast-fully-tuned image - this is how mine looks once fully adjusted for no crush. Just keep dropping it until you feel that no image detail is being lost due to "bloom". When you find that point, raise contrast again a click or two and confirm that the blooming starts, lower it again - the point is toe just confirm that you have the right point. In my setup I think I had to drop contrast to around -18 or -20.

11. When you are done adjusting contrast, press Enter on Arve's tool (which is waiting for you to do so to tell it you're done adjusting contrast). This is where the magic happens... It will readjust your curve based on the brightness you need, send the new curve to the pj, and then automatically reset the JVC brightness back to 0 for you.

12. It gives you a chance to repeat this process, which may be necessary to fine tune a click or two. Change contrast a few clicks in either direction. Most likely you will be good now at 0 if you got it right in the first place (step 10). If you adjust contrast, go to step 11 and repeat. If you leave contrast at 0, when you hit return in the tool it'll exit this adjustment phase.

Tip: From early experimentation it seems that you can get extra brightness without as much crushing on 1000 nit master titles. Therefore if you have low nits like me, it may be worthwhile to have two "go to" curves - one for 1000 nit titles and one for 4000 nit titles. So repeat this whole process (all steps here) a 2nd time, but using a 1000 nit title like Lucy. The result will be a brighter curve that may work well on 1000 nit titles.

As a general guide, expect to lower contrast to about -17 to -23 for 4000 nit titles (crushing beyond 2750) and to about -5 to -7 for 1000 nit titles. Let your eyes guide you on the scenes, but that should give you a rough idea if you are in the right ballpark.

Tip #2 : When using the contrast control to set the contrast so there is no clipping, you will likely create a picture that looks nice and properly saturated, but is too dim, particularly if you have less than 100 nits to start with. Therefore I recommend doing one curve with contrast set ideally, again, likely you will find that be around -23 to -17. After completing all the steps listed in this guide, repeat it from scratch again, but this time purposely crush some of the scene, perhaps with a contrast setting around -12 to -15. Finish all the steps here again, but save this into another preset. Then repeat everything once again, but with targeting a 1000 nit master and clipping around 1000, which will be around -5 to -7 as mentioned above. Save that into the 3rd slot. Then as you watch movies play around and see which one you will like best. Hint/spoiler alert: You will like the brightest one best. However you will crush some bright scenes as a result. So you'll have to decide what is an acceptable level of tradeoff. By having 3 different curves you can try any of them A/B to pick your favorite. You can even use the 1000 nit target curve for 4000 nit masters (but will crush them quite a bit) and still find it VERY pleasing, if you don't mind the crush.

13. At this point your curve is mainly complete. However this is where manually tweaking can be done. You can try changing the soft clip value (sc) lower or higher, and or changing the se value to control how steep the clip is. I lowered my sc from the auto setting and lower my se from 0.75 to 0.5. This further helped to tame some minor blooming I had in the highlights otherwise. For instance, after my contrast was tuned I still had some pretty heavy blooming in highlights. See pan-hand-highlight-high image. After lowering my sc and se I was able to tame it, without sacrificing much if any overall image brightness. See pan-hand-highlight-medium for the end result. Look at Pan's hand (wrist really) in both of those pics. Notice the bloom is tamed (somewhat) in the medium one. Look at the clouds above his hand in both pics - you can see how the excess bloom is tamed there as well.

Note: You will have to walk a fine line between how much crush you are willing to take for a brighter picture, or put another way, how dim of a picture you are willing to accept to minimize crush. The brighter the picture, not only is there more crush, but the picture begins to desaturate. In these two sky image examples those are at both ends - too high and too low. This picture is rather dim in the low one. So in reality I wind up cheating-up some by introducing some desaturation and some crush, but no where close to what the initial sky looks like. I have a few versions of this saved into different presets so I can change the curve to taste based on the movie.

14. Now it's time to fine tune the Brightness, tho we will not do that with any controls - just with Arve's tool. Leave brightness at 0 in JVC and elsewhere. Don't touch those controls... Bring up Ray's black clipping pattern, the 2nd one with the large bars. Pause it with the bars showing so the clip doesn't end on you while you are working on it, but hit play to help you see what's flashing or not as you make adjustments, then rewind to the beginning of the clip so it doesn't end on you as you work with hit. The idea here is to purposely crush black so that 0.005 nits is the black floor instead of 0. This should provide a lower black floor for content mastered at 0.005 black (about 70% of the content) while also not having any detrimental impact to content mastered at 0 nit black. To do this we target bars 77 and below to not be flashing, and 81 and above to be flashing.

15. Enter the command "bbi 0.005" to set this as your black floor for content. Issue Pw command to write this to the JVC. You will likely find that bar 81 and possibly higher bars are not visible/flashing. In that case use the "bbo" command to add just a touch of brightness, then send to the JVC with Pw command. Try something very small at first, like 0.002. You want to get to the point where you can't see bar 77 but can see bar 81. Keep trying bbo values and Pw until bar 81 shows but bar 77 does not.

16. At this point you are done. Use the command "s filename" to save your curve to your PC. Later you can use "lf filename" to reload your curve back into the tool and write it back to the pj, in case you want to work on it some more (or in case you want to overwrite it temporarily in the pj but then come back to it later).

17. Experiment. Try the same process over, but perhaps crushing your contrast-setting scene a bit more to give you more brightness. And or play with sc or se. Write curves into other custom gamma slots. Then bring up scenes and switch between them in the JVC. You may find that some curves work better for dark vs brighter movies.

Hope this helps!

Edit 3/14/17: Added screenshots and further clarification to steps 9-13.

Edit 3/15/17: Added more details on using bbi and bbo to set the proper black level; added more details on contrast fine tuning and idea of designing curves for 1000 vs 4000 nit titles.

Edit: 3/16/17: Added clarification to say to use a movie scene for the contrast tuning, not a white clipping pattern.

Edit: 3/17/17: Added tip #2 above, for ideas on how to generate curves with different brightness levels to pick from.
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post #1764 of 4161 Old 05-03-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
About this I am not sure. I outsourced this to Chad_B because he was doing a complete setup for me.



I did not use the PDF guide. I used the WIP version of Arve's tool and this guide:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post51467921





I found it necessary to do contrast first, then black levels, per this guide:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post51467921

For contrast, you don't need the test patterns. That frame you quoted above works well.

For black level, you want to clip more than what you describe, and I used the Masciola patterns (paid version). I don't think there is a black level pattern in the free samples.


Alright, I think I've got it. I'll get the paid patterns and will try lovingdvd's method tomorrow.

Just two questions:

1) Creating a custom curve using lovingdvd's method includes tweaking the brightness using Arve's tool. So does this mean that once all of that is done, the brightness,contrast in the JVC should be left untouched? Basically, once you've made your custom curve using the above method, you can leave brightness/contrast at 0,0 in the projector, right? (I'm using Source Direct in the player.)

2) Is there a list specifying which discs are manufactured at 4000 nits and which are at 1000? If you create a second curve for 1000 nits movies, how would you know which curve to use? I know that BvS is 4000 nits and Lucy is 1000 nits, but I have idea about the rest of the UHDs.
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1) Yes, if you do this right, the Arve tool redefines 0 brightness and 0 contrast to be correct, so that is what you should have the JVC set at when using the Custom Import gamma.

2) There is a list or two floating around. Frankly, just made a curve that I find acceptable for 4000 nit titles,and it's great for 100 nit titles too. I might be giving up a little potential brightness but it's not so much that I would both to change it on a per movie basis.

(If you have the Oppo, you can tell by choosing the details screen whether a movie was mastered on a 4000 or 1000 nit monitor.... but many 4000 nit mastered titles might never use more than 2000 nits, so.... I don't worry about it.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivas1015 View Post
Alright, I think I've got it. I'll get the paid patterns and will try lovingdvd's method tomorrow.

Just two questions:

1) Creating a custom curve using lovingdvd's method includes tweaking the brightness using Arve's tool. So does this mean that once all of that is done, the brightness,contrast in the JVC should be left untouched? Basically, once you've made your custom curve using the above method, you can leave brightness/contrast at 0,0 in the projector, right? (I'm using Source Direct in the player.)

2) Is there a list specifying which discs are manufactured at 4000 nits and which are at 1000? If you create a second curve for 1000 nits movies, how would you know which curve to use? I know that BvS is 4000 nits and Lucy is 1000 nits, but I have idea about the rest of the UHDs.
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Before I try making my own custom curve, I'm thinking of first downloading one of the many that have been created by Manni on the first page. The choice is a little overwhelming. I have a 140 inch screen and my throw distance is around 20 ft. I have white walls so I guess that counts as light leakage. My lamp is new (140 hours) and I plan on running it on High with the iris fully open to make up for the throw distance and screen size.
Which curves would you recommend I start with?
Quick comment on large screens and white walls - with white screen material you might want to put more time and effort in room treatments first as by not doing so will defeat the whole purpose you're trying to achieve.

You want these curves give justice to the image but you'll lose out significantly in color and detail quickly once you're at that scene again under such room condition above.

That scene is a good nit example, btw.
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I have a couple of quick questions for the "experts" please - would appreciate explanation or link to get me started so I don't have to search these long threads. System is Oppo 203 to RS500. I have tried Oppo SDR/BT2020 to JVC and love it. Now experimenting/learning about Manni's custom curve.

1. When you import Manni's curve, is there a way to give it a name instead of using "Custom 1" or "Custom 2".

2. SDR/BT2020 color profile looks much better/more saturated than HDR/Manni's curve, what am I doing wrong please? I've left pretty much every other parameters in "neutral/standard mod."

Settings for SDR/BT2020: Temp 6500, Color profile BT2020, Gamma and rest of settings are "standard/neutral/nothing fancy, etc." Very nice saturated picture without any adjustment.

Settings for HDR/Manni's curve: Temp 6500, Gamma custom 1 (Manni's gamma imported). Color profile and Rest is standard. Pic looks washed out so I'm doing something wrong, just don't know what.

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I have a couple of quick questions for the "experts" please - would appreciate explanation or link to get me started so I don't have to search these long threads. System is Oppo 203 to RS500. I have tried Oppo SDR/BT2020 to JVC and love it. Now experimenting/learning about Manni's custom curve.

1. When you import Manni's curve, is there a way to give it a name instead of using "Custom 1" or "Custom 2".

2. SDR/BT2020 color profile looks much better/more saturated than HDR/Manni's curve, what am I doing wrong please? I've left pretty much every other parameters in "neutral/standard mod."

Settings for SDR/BT2020: Temp 6500, Color profile BT2020, Gamma and rest of settings are "standard/neutral/nothing fancy, etc." Very nice saturated picture without any adjustment.

Settings for HDR/Manni's curve: Temp 6500, Gamma custom 1 (Manni's gamma imported). Color profile and Rest is standard. Pic looks washed out so I'm doing something wrong, just don't know what.
That - underlined - you need BT2020 selected for HDR also, not standard.
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
1) Yes, if you do this right, the Arve tool redefines 0 brightness and 0 contrast to be correct, so that is what you should have the JVC set at when using the Custom Import gamma.

2) There is a list or two floating around. Frankly, just made a curve that I find acceptable for 4000 nit titles,and it's great for 100 nit titles too. I might be giving up a little potential brightness but it's not so much that I would both to change it on a per movie basis.

(If you have the Oppo, you can tell by choosing the details screen whether a movie was mastered on a 4000 or 1000 nit monitor.... but many 4000 nit mastered titles might never use more than 2000 nits, so.... I don't worry about it.)
Thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to be sure.

That Oppo feature is something I didn't know about and is quite convenient. I think I've done enough homework for this. I'll try it tonight .



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximori View Post
Quick comment on large screens and white walls - with white screen material you might want to put more time and effort in room treatments first as by not doing so will defeat the whole purpose you're trying to achieve.

You want these curves give justice to the image but you'll lose out significantly in color and detail quickly once you're at that scene again under such room condition above.

That scene is a good nit example, btw.
I'm in a rented place so I can't do anything about the wall colors . It's also the living room so I prefer white. I understand that there's a loss of contrast due to the reflection, so I'll definitely keep that in mind whenever I move. Till then, I'll squeeze out whatever I can with these settings.

That's the brightest spot that I could remember off the top of my head. I'll be getting a lot more UHDs next week so I'll have more of a choice then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
That - underlined - you need BT2020 selected for HDR also, not standard.

Alright, a few noobish questions:

1) When calibrating the bt.2020 color profile, does a UHD need to be playing on the projector? (I did my first calibration when a BD was playing as I thought Gamma D shouldn't be selected while doing a color-only calibration?)

2) Which gamma should be selected while calibrating bt.2020?

3) Does a 'reference' color profile need to be selected while doing a gamma cal for bt.2020? Or does this not matter?
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That - underlined - you need BT2020 selected for HDR also, not standard.
1. Ah - sorry, rookie mistake; thanks. The next major step is to ajdust brightness and contrast using UHD pattern?

2. You have answer for my other question pls: renaming the "custom 1" gamma to for example "Manni 1" or "Manni 2," etc. No big deal and easy for me to try, just afraid of messing things up.

TIA

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