JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 67 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1981 of 4164 Old 08-01-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Dark level = 5 is what is needed for gamma D, but that raises your black floor and kills your on/off contrast. Fade to black has significantly raised black level with that setting, especially as the DI is disabled with Gamma D. Lowering it to 2 (possibly 3 if you're lucky) doesn't raise the black floor, but crushes black and you lose a significant amount of detail in the low end.

That's the main reason why Gamma D isn't usable and why we need custom curves (or why SDR BT2020 was used before we got custom curves).
Since there's too many uncertain factors in my setup, I'm gonna go ahead and do a proper calibration myself using the JVC autocal software. I'm picking up a Spyder5 Express tomorrow. Then I'll upload the Manni01 custom curve.

I hope the calibration process is not too involved. Will you guys here help me in case I get stuck?

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1982 of 4164 Old 08-01-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
JVC Projector Calibration Software V7 & Spyder 5 DIY for RS400/500/600

This step-by-step guide was put together from my calibration experience along with a handful of posts from this calibration thread and various other places. It is not as complicated as it seems, actually it is absurdly easy. This calibration thread has a lot of in it but there really isn't a single post quick start guide to follow. This is that guide. Props to Manni, who as usual, provided much of the data necessary to create this guide.


I read post 9, post 10 and this post. I also read this JVC guide.

I have a Spyder 5 and used JVC Calibration Software V7.

You only need to calibrate the picture modes with settings you actually use. I calibrated (these are the modes I use):

1) Cinema, IRIS -6, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, Low Lamp (this is 100% of my non 3D & HDR content)
2) Cinema, IRIS 0, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, High Lamp
3) HDR BT2020, IRIS 0, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, Low Lamp
4) HDR BT2020, IRIS 0, CMD OFF, Normal Gamma, High Lamp

I also loaded the REC-709 color profile Manni posted (Rec-709NF at the bottom of this post). I'm told it is better and more 'accurate' than Cinema. I found it to be extremely similar to Cinema with colors being slightly less saturated. I've been very happy with Cinema, now I have both. I imported this REC-709NF profile using the same "JVC import procedure" as the BT2020 profile from the JVC HDR settings page. This is the same procedure to import Manni's premade custom gamma curves, too.

FYI: After loading the Filter color profile (e.g. Rec-709F), the projector needs to be turned off and turned on again for it to take affect and be calibrated. Apparently, a No Filter color profile (e.g. Rec-709NF) can be calibrated right away without power cycle.

I ran into a snag on my third calibration. It was taking FOREVER and when I tried to cancel, the software locked up. The projector went black and I had to kill the app and turn the projector off and back on again. Therefor, I recommend exiting the app and opening it again after each calibration.

Each Gamma + Color calibration only takes 10-15 minutes, so this whole thing took me less than one hour. Let the projector fully warm up for an hour or so before beginning this process.

Here is the Calibration Software V7 & Spyder 5 DIY:

1) Buy the Spyder 5 (Hardware is identical for all versions so Express is fine). A camera tripod would be helpful, too.

2) Install Spyder 5 software and JVC Calibration Software V7 (I used a Windows 10 laptop). Shut off any power savings, screensaver, screen-off or sleep modes in computer settings.

3) Physical setup: The Spyder will need to be close to the screen in the middle, so set your gear accordingly. I set the Spyder on a camera tripod (it has a screw mount) in the exact center of the screen (height and width) facing the projector. The software process will show an illustration to help you adjust the Spyder to a proper distance from the projector, mine was about 4 feet from the screen. The Spyder is then USB connected to a laptop on the side facing away from center. The projector just needs to be on any active HDMI signal to allow the calibration process to start. The laptop display does not need to be connected to the projector. The room was pitch black. I dimmed my laptop screen to eliminate any room glow.

4) Connect your projector to the same network as your laptop and check the projector IP address in the projector settings.

5) Use your JVC remote to set your projector to the first mode you'd like to calibrate. You can see what I chose above. Be certain, no matter what, to be using Gamma Normal.

6) Open JVC Calibration Software V7. Click on the gear for settings. Enter the IP address of the projector and click check. Verify Gamma + Color is checked and Gamma Step is Normal. Enter your screen size and viewing distance. Take note of the backup file path. Enter the Serial number of your projector and click OK.

7) Click on the 'Calibration' button on the left, and walk through the process. On the picture mode settings screen you won't have to do anything because you already did it before opening the software by setting the projector to the mode you'd like to calibrate in step 5, but verify anyway.

8) After it is all done, feel free to screenshot the different graphs then click Save. IMMEDIATELY go to the file path folder (Documents by default) and save that "Init" file to a few different places. That is the factory color/gamma settings the projector shipped with and is the ONLY way to restore it. You'll also see each calibration you do gets saved there too, but only one Init file ever and that Init file is only created AFTER the first calibration is done.

9) Close JVC Calibration Software V7. Set the picture mode/lamp mode/etc for your next calibration with the projector remote. Remember: Always Gamma Normal.

10) Repeat step 7 & 9 until you've calibrated all the viewing modes/settings you typically use.

That's it!

Even the quick DIY seems long...lol. But these instructions are precise and idiot proof.

After calibration, feel free to check my post about custom gamma curves; step 3 is what your looking for there. Alternately, you can load Manni's premade custom gamma curves using Import/Export from the Projector Calibration Software using the same JVC import procedure but selecting 'gamma' from the pull-down menu on the import/export screen.
Thanks for this!

I'm doing the calibration tomorrow. Regarding the color profiles (BT2020 and Rec709), am I supposed to upload those first, before I start the calibration?

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1983 of 4164 Old 08-01-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
Thanks for this!

I'm doing the calibration tomorrow. Regarding the color profiles (BT2020 and Rec709), am I supposed to upload those first, before I start the calibration?
I didn't, but I'd suggest you do. That way you don't have to interrupt the calibration flow in order to upload them.
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post #1984 of 4164 Old 08-01-2017, 02:20 PM
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Manni, as I mentioned in the other thread, I've got a question about which curves to use.


For some reason, I can't get the import/export button to work in autocal. I've downloaded your 4 curves, but I can't get the function to work in the autocal program. (I can get everything else to work, although restoring my INIT file took hours upon hours, and still only finished 55%.)

If I can get it to work, which three should I download since I only have three custom gamma settings on the 620?
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post #1985 of 4164 Old 08-01-2017, 04:55 PM
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What size screen? What gain? Even better, have you measured your peak light output?

You should be able to get by with a single curve. And if you find a title is still mastered too dark for your case, convert it to SDR.
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post #1986 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
I didn't, but I'd suggest you do. That way you don't have to interrupt the calibration flow in order to upload them.
Ok, got it.

My plan is to calibration color+gamma for my two content/picture modes: HD content (Rec709) (User1) and 4k (BT2020) (User2). I'm assuming this will create calibrated color and gamma curves for each mode.

So, just to have it clear in my mind: the 4k/BT2020 calibration/picture mode is for 4k SDR content, correct?

And later, when I upload the additional Manni custom curve specific for HDR, I will do that into a separate custom slot inside the HDR picture mode (User2)?

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1987 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
Ok, got it.

My plan is to calibration color+gamma for my two content/picture modes: HD content (Rec709) (User1) and 4k (BT2020) (User2). I'm assuming this will create calibrated color and gamma curves for each mode.

So, just to have it clear in my mind: the 4k/BT2020 calibration/picture mode is for 4k SDR content, correct?

And later, when I upload the additional Manni custom curve specific for HDR, I will do that into a separate custom slot inside the HDR picture mode (User2)?
Well once I did a color+gamma calibration for my SDR and 4K HDR picture profiles, I then performed a color only calibration for each of the color profiles I uploaded to the PJ

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Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
Ok, got it.

So, just to have it clear in my mind: the 4k/BT2020 calibration/picture mode is for 4k SDR content, correct?
So are you planning on using a linker or intergral to strip the HDR flag so that you maintain SDR/BT2020?
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post #1988 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Well once I did a color+gamma calibration for my SDR and 4K HDR picture profiles, I then performed a color only calibration for each of the color profiles I uploaded to the PJ


So are you planning on using a linker or intergral to strip the HDR flag so that you maintain SDR/BT2020?
No, I just meant that User2 mode will be dedicated to BT2020 color profile and gamma, and within that mode I can switch on and off Manni-HDR gamma (living in one of the Custom slots).

So, if I would want to watch 4k without HDR (say through a streaming service) I would keep the normal gamma on, and when I watch HDR I switch to the custom slot.

Am I on the right track?

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1989 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
No, I just meant that User2 mode will be dedicated to BT2020 color profile and gamma, and within that mode I can switch on and off Manni-HDR gamma (living in one of the Custom slots).

So, if I would want to watch 4k without HDR (say through a streaming service) I would keep the normal gamma on, and when I watch HDR I switch to the custom slot.
I don't think there are any of those, it's pretty much an all or nothing deal, you either have a source with HDR+Rec.2020 or SDR+Rec.709, I've not seen any SDR+Rec.2020 sources.

Unless you know you've got a SDR+Rec.2020 source, I think all you really need is an SDR and an HDR calibration, and you pick based on the source which of those is correct.

Which reminds me I really need to go through and clean up my user memories again.
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post #1990 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I don't think there are any of those, it's pretty much an all or nothing deal, you either have a source with HDR+Rec.2020 or SDR+Rec.709, I've not seen any SDR+Rec.2020 sources.

Unless you know you've got a SDR+Rec.2020 source, I think all you really need is an SDR and an HDR calibration, and you pick based on the source which of those is correct.

Which reminds me I really need to go through and clean up my user memories again.
All right, thanks!

One thing still bothers me though (= can't grasp it yet):

As I understand it, after my initial calibration I will end up with a calibrated color profile and a calibrated gamma curve for BT2020 (I will upload the BT2020 before calibration).

But what is this calibrated gamma curve used for? It seems wasted, since I will replace it with the custom gamma curve from Manni...

My initial thought was that this curve was used for SDR, hence my previous question...

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1991 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
All right, thanks!

One thing still bothers me though (= can't grasp it yet):

As I understand it, after my initial calibration I will end up with a calibrated color profile and a calibrated gamma curve for BT2020 (I will upload the BT2020 before calibration).

But what is this calibrated gamma curve used for? It seems wasted, since I will replace it with the custom gamma curve from Manni...

My initial thought was that this curve was used for SDR, hence my previous question...
I could be mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that you have to use a preset to perform a color+gamma calibration using the Autocal software. After that you'd use another calibration software to create custom gamma curves and or color profiles. I've read so much stuff on this topic I could be wrong
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post #1992 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 05:47 AM
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But what is this calibrated gamma curve used for? It seems wasted, since I will replace it with the custom gamma curve from Manni...
The short answer is, everything. There is really one baseline gamma curve in these projectors, and all of the others (Custom 1-3, IMPORT, 2084, etc) are based off that. The custom curves are essentially a delta from the standard curve which is assumed to be "perfect". Any errors in the standard curve are propagated to all the other curves, which is why it's so important to get that baseline gamma correct.

The only way around that is to do a 12 point calibration by hand with a meter/software, which would effectively take any baseline errors into account and fix them as you go, but that would only fix that one custom gamma, not all of them.
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post #1993 of 4164 Old 08-02-2017, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The short answer is, everything. There is really one baseline gamma curve in these projectors, and all of the others (Custom 1-3, IMPORT, 2084, etc) are based off that. The custom curves are essentially a delta from the standard curve which is assumed to be "perfect". Any errors in the standard curve are propagated to all the other curves, which is why it's so important to get that baseline gamma correct.

The only way around that is to do a 12 point calibration by hand with a meter/software, which would effectively take any baseline errors into account and fix them as you go, but that would only fix that one custom gamma, not all of them.
Ah! Now I get it, much appreciated!

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1994 of 4164 Old 08-03-2017, 11:21 AM
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I'm about to calibrate for 4k/HDR and HD with Autocal. See my initial pre-calibration settings below.

I'm all sorted out except for Lens aperture and Lamp power: how do I know which level to set these? All I know is that the JVC gives me enough light for HDR and a bit too much light for HD (I've got 80+ FT = appr. 230 nits at my throw and zoom).


4K/HDR
Color profile: BT2020
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: ?
Lamp power: ?

HD
Color profile: Rec709 No Filter (Mannis curve)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: ?
Lamp power: ?

And as a separate question: Taking the above into account, which of Mannis custom gamma should I use for HDR after the calibration? I'm thinking of this one.

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
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post #1995 of 4164 Old 08-03-2017, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
I'm about to calibrate for 4k/HDR and HD with Autocal. See my initial pre-calibration settings below.

I'm all sorted out except for Lens aperture and Lamp power: how do I know which level to set these? All I know is that the JVC gives me enough light for HDR and a bit too much light for HD (I've got 80+ FT = appr. 230 nits at my throw and zoom).


4K/HDR
Color profile: BT2020
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: ?
Lamp power: ?

HD
Color profile: Rec709 No Filter (Mannis curve)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: ?
Lamp power: ?

And as a separate question: Taking the above into account, which of Mannis custom gamma should I use for HDR after the calibration? I'm thinking of this one.
For 4k with HDR you will need a custom gamma curve for it to look good
I am using Manni's DV curve now and will try his 135nits with black=77 curve this week

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post #1996 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mpyw View Post
For 4k with HDR you will need a custom gamma curve for it to look good
I am using Manni's DV curve now and will try his 135nits with black=77 curve this week
Yup I know - I was just thinking of what to set these to prior to Autocal calibration.

Well, I did the calibration and HDR gamma curve upload yesterday (finally ) using Dreamliners guide and Steves summary and it all went well. I settled on below settings, with lamp always on low and iris/aperture on 0 for HDR and -11 on HD (I just guessed these based on Mike Garrets calculation of more than 250 nits on my 90" screen) and the fact that HDR requires more light than SDR or HD.

See also attached curve results from UHD/4k Autocal.

Equipment
Projector: JVC X5000 (RS400)
Screen: AdeoPro, 90"
Cable: Ruipro HDMI Fiber (10 m/33 feet). See on Amazon.
Player: Sony UHD X800 region free. See on 220-Electronics here.
Calibration: Spyder5 Express, tripod, Windows 10, calibration software

4K/HDR (Picture mode: User 2)
Color profile: BT2020 (from the JVC website)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal + Mannis 135 nits (black = 77) in a Custom slot
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: 0
Lamp power: Low

HD (Picture mode: User 3)
Color profile: Rec-709 No Filter (Mannis curve from AVSForum)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: -11
Lamp power: Low


After calibration

Black crush: I uploaded Manni's 135 nits curve for HDR (see above) into a Custom slot in User 2. I then checked the test patterns found on Sony Blu-rays. All greyscale pillars throughout the spectrum were distinguishable except for the three blackest ones. No amount of Contrast or Brightness adjustment would change this fact.

A couple of questions on black crush:

1. Gamma correction: After calibration, is there a point to correct the value on the scale 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 etc? Will this affect the black crush?
2. Input level: I calibrated with Input level set to Standard. Today I'm gonna try to switch to Super White to see if that affects the black crush. But will that change the dynamics of the calibration? In other words, do I need to recalibrate if I change this value?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	JVCX5000-Autocal-results-gamma.png
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ID:	2263126   Click image for larger version

Name:	JVCX5000-Autocal-results-color.png
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ID:	2263128   Click image for larger version

Name:	JVCX5000-Autocal-results-colortemp.png
Views:	42
Size:	3.02 MB
ID:	2263130  

JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."
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post #1997 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
Yup I know - I was just thinking of what to set these to prior to Autocal calibration.

Well, I did the calibration and HDR gamma curve upload yesterday (finally ) using Dreamliners guide and Steves summary and it all went well. I settled on below settings, with lamp always on low and iris/aperture on 0 for HDR and -11 on HD (I just guessed these based on Mike Garrets calculation of more than 250 nits on my 90" screen) and the fact that HDR requires more light than SDR or HD.

See also attached curve results from UHD/4k Autocal.

Equipment
Projector: JVC X5000 (RS400)
Screen: AdeoPro, 90"
Cable: Ruipro HDMI Fiber (10 m/33 feet). See on Amazon.
Player: Sony UHD X800 region free. See on 220-Electronics here.
Calibration: Spyder5 Express, tripod, Windows 10, calibration software

4K/HDR (Picture mode: User 2)
Color profile: BT2020 (from the JVC website)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal + Mannis 135 nits (black = 77) in a Custom slot
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: 0
Lamp power: Low

HD (Picture mode: User 3)
Color profile: Rec-709 No Filter (Mannis curve from AVSForum)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: -11
Lamp power: Low


After calibration

Black crush: I uploaded Manni's 135 nits curve for HDR (see above) into a Custom slot in User 2. I then checked the test patterns found on Sony Blu-rays. All greyscale pillars throughout the spectrum were distinguishable except for the three blackest ones. No amount of Contrast or Brightness adjustment would change this fact.

A couple of questions on black crush:

1. Gamma correction: After calibration, is there a point to correct the value on the scale 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 etc? Will this affect the black crush?
2. Input level: I calibrated with Input level set to Standard. Today I'm gonna try to switch to Super White to see if that affects the black crush. But will that change the dynamics of the calibration? In other words, do I need to recalibrate if I change this value?
You need to run the gamma + color using a standard (cinema, natural etc.) mode in order to calibrate the gamma and save it as the base for the custom curve to work best. In your picture it seem like you run the gamma + color using User mode and with gamma indicate as "-", it would not save the calibrated gamma into the projector.

My X5000 (RS400) can also go down to 0.005 of the sony test pattern.

If you select custom gamma as your gamma curve, make sure you select the "import" as the value to activate the imported custom gamma and not those 2.1, 2.2 etc.

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post #1998 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mpyw View Post
You need to run the gamma + color using a standard (cinema, natural etc.) mode in order to calibrate the gamma and save it as the base for the custom curve to work best. In your picture it seem like you run the gamma + color using User mode and with gamma indicate as "-", it would not save the calibrated gamma into the projector.
I used the BT2020 color profile as a starting point for the calibration. I imported BT2020 into a Custom slot using Autocal and then chose that slot in the Autocal calibration process. Is this not correct? Do I need to use one of the out-of-the-box Color profiles? From reading around on the forum I was under the impression that starting from BT2020 was the way to go.

I believe the reason for the "-" is that the first time I did the calibration the software lost contact with the projector in the middle of the Save process" (I got a Connection lost-popup). The photos attached are from the first calibration. After that I redid the calibration and the Save process went well.

Is there a way in the projector menu to confirm that the calibration was completed and is now active?

Quote:
If you select custom gamma as your gamma curve, make sure you select the "import" as the value to activate the imported custom gamma and not those 2.1, 2.2 etc.
Aha, thank you.

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Last edited by Lightivity; 08-04-2017 at 02:36 AM.
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post #1999 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
I used the BT2020 color profile as a starting point for the calibration. I imported BT2020 into a Custom slot using Autocal and then chose that slot in the Autocal calibration process. Is this not correct? Do I need to use one of the out-of-the-box Color profiles? From reading around on the forum I was under the impression that starting from BT2020 was the way to go.

I believe the reason for the "-" is that the first time I did the calibration the software lost contact with the projector in the middle of the Save process" (I got a Connection lost-popup). The photos attached are from the first calibration. After that I redid the calibration and the Save process went well.

Is there a way in the projector menu to confirm that the calibration was completed and is now active?



Aha, thank you.
Yes, for 1st time calibration, you need to use the built in colour profile (i.e. natural, cinema etc) to run the autocal, else it would not save the gamma and it will not be corrected.

the "-" means the gamma will not be corrected.

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Last edited by mpyw; 08-04-2017 at 02:44 AM. Reason: add info
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post #2000 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post
Yes, for 1st time calibration, you need to use the built in colour profile (i.e. natural, cinema etc) to run the autocal, else it would not save the gamma and it will not be corrected.

the "-" means the gamma will not be corrected.
Ok, so I rerun the calibration using a preinstalled color profile as starting point and then switch to BT2020 and a custom gamma after calibration? How do I know which Color profile mode to start from, Cinema, Natural etc. Or doesn't it matter?

EDIT: Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a bit confused about the process now. I'm nervous that I did not get the initial Autocal calibration correct - will this matter (did I somehow changed a fundamental dynamic now?) or can I just rerun the calibration according to above and still have a pristine calibration record?

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—————————-
"National unity in Europe is still defined in terms of blood and earth. In the USA it's the idea – expressed in the Constitution – that supports the development of the nation. In the matter of integration the difference is profound: everyone can agree on an idea, but no-one can change their ties of blood."

Last edited by Lightivity; 08-04-2017 at 04:33 AM.
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post #2001 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 04:23 AM
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Anybody in Maryland or near by that has done this calibration and be willing to contact/talk or even meet up.
I will be upgrading in a month (might wait and see what CEDIA shows) or sooner
I am coming from a 10yr old RS1
thanks
dan

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post #2002 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
HD
Color profile: Rec709 No Filter (Mannis curve)
Color temp: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear motion drive: Off
Lens aperture: ?
Lamp power: ?
Generally you want to run your baseline gamma calibration with the lens aperture wide open so that you have as much light as possible for the Spyder to pick up. Black/near black on these machines is right at the limit of what the spyder can do. Lamp power should be whatever you're planning on using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
Ok, so I rerun the calibration using a preinstalled color profile as starting point and then switch to BT2020 and a custom gamma after calibration? How do I know which Color profile mode to start from, Cinema, Natural etc. Or doesn't it matter?
You generally want to run a Gamma+Color calibration on Standard/Normal for Rec.709 and Reference/Normal for WCG (I'd need to go back and re-read Manni's instructions on whether you need to run a Gamma for both of those), these will calibrate the baseline gamma of the projector which is the foundation for all other gamma curves.

After that you can run a Color only autocal on whatever config you plan to actually use. Just (for the RSx00's, the RSx20's may be different) make sure the Spider icon is as close to the right side of the box in the placement screen as you can get it.

Quote:
EDIT: Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a bit confused about the process now. I'm nervous that I did not get the initial Autocal calibration correct - will this matter (have a changed some fundamental dynamic now) or can I just rerun the calibration according to above and still have a pristine calibration record?
So long as you've got the INIT file that is saved when you do your first cal you can always get back to your factory config. But it doesn't really matter, each autocal does it's own thing, it doesn't depend on prior ones. So if you mess up, just do it again and so long as you fix what you did wrong, it will work fine.
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post #2003 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
Ok, so I rerun the calibration using a preinstalled color profile as starting point and then switch to BT2020 and a custom gamma after calibration? How do I know which Color profile mode to start from, Cinema, Natural etc. Or doesn't it matter?

EDIT: Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a bit confused about the process now. I'm nervous that I did not get the initial Autocal calibration correct - will this matter (did I somehow changed a fundamental dynamic now?) or can I just rerun the calibration according to above and still have a pristine calibration record?
Just trying to wrap my head around what you're referring to when you use "Color Profile" are you referring to an actual color profile or do you mean picture mode? IIRC there are two default color profiles Standard and cinema but there are more picture modes Cinema, Animation, Natural, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Just trying to wrap my head around what you're referring to when you use "Color Profile" are you referring to an actual color profile or do you mean picture mode? IIRC there are two default color profiles Standard and cinema but there are more picture modes Cinema, Animation, Natural, etc.
I'm referring to a Color profile inside the Picture mode. In my case I'm using a custom Picture mode (User 2) which I then occupy with a Color profile, a Color temp and a Gamma.
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—————————-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Generally you want to run your baseline gamma calibration with the lens aperture wide open so that you have as much light as possible for the Spyder to pick up. Black/near black on these machines is right at the limit of what the spyder can do. Lamp power should be whatever you're planning on using.
Ok


Quote:
You generally want to run a Gamma+Color calibration on Standard/Normal for Rec.709 and Reference/Normal for WCG (I'd need to go back and re-read Manni's instructions on whether you need to run a Gamma for both of those), these will calibrate the baseline gamma of the projector which is the foundation for all other gamma curves.
It's around this point I get a bit lost Let's say I want to calibrate for HDR. What I understand is that I should choose an empty Picture mode (for example "User2"), and there-in set gamma to "Normal". But which color profile should I choose? "Reference/normal" is not listed. See attached screenshot of available Picture modes and Color profiles from the manual. I assumed I should choose the uploaded BT2020?


See the instructions from Dreamliner:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post54405137
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JVC RS400/X5000, Marantz SR5011, Sony UHD X800
—————————-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Generally you want to run your baseline gamma calibration with the lens aperture wide open so that you have as much light as possible for the Spyder to pick up. Black/near black on these machines is right at the limit of what the spyder can do. Lamp power should be whatever you're planning on using.
I usually run gamma calibration with the same lens aperture setting required for the desired luminance level. Loss of measurement sensitivity is not an issue, as the Spyder position is always adjusted to give the same amount of light received by the Spyder (as indicated by the meter at the right side of the "box").
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post #2007 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post
You need to run the gamma + color using a standard (cinema, natural etc.) mode in order to calibrate the gamma and save it as the base for the custom curve to work best. In your picture it seem like you run the gamma + color using User mode and with gamma indicate as "-", it would not save the calibrated gamma into the projector.
When you say User mode, do you mean Picture mode or Color profile? If the former, then I understand it as only one of the preinstalled Picture modes will work to save the calibration? (= I shouldn't user Picture Mode User1-User6?)

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—————————-
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I have a x5000
Can i just download user modes from someone else into my machine ?
It has to be better than what ive got as standard

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post #2009 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightivity View Post
It's around this point I get a bit lost Let's say I want to calibrate for HDR. What I understand is that I should choose an empty Picture mode (for example "User2"), and there-in set gamma to "Normal". But which color profile should I choose? "Reference/normal" is not listed. See attached screenshot of available Picture modes and Color profiles from the manual. I assumed I should choose the uploaded BT2020?

See the instructions from Dreamliner:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post54405137
I wouldn't over think it too much. That is precisely what led to me being super confused and is the reason I created that guide. The software locked up and lost connection to the projector on me during one of my calibrations too. That's why in the guide I suggested closing and reopening the app after each calibration and rechecking the connection in settings. Many will likely find this unnecessary, but when their software locks up and their projector goes black, I bet they'll start doing it.

There is a also a bit of confusion when to do color only and color+gamma. The most recent post from Manni I could find about that is this one where he says he just does gamma+color now. It takes quite a bit longer to do the gamma too. I use various IRIS settings so I did color only for those but when I switched from Cinema to Rec-709NF to BT2020 or High Lamp I reran color+gamma. I'm not certain what the exact correct answer is for this but I expect the worst thing rerunning color+gamma does is waste time if it is indeed unnecessary.

I calibrated Gamma+Color on Cinema first, then did a color only calibration for a few different Iris settings. I then calibrated Gamma+color on Rec-709NF, then did color only calibration for a few different Iris settings. Then I calibrated gamma+color on the BT2020 profile that I loaded by following the JVC Import Procedure.

I started the whole thing with calibrating gamma+color on Cinema and that went perfectly smooth. The only issue I had was that software lockup glitch I had on the third consecutive time I tried to run color+gamma.

Just be certain to always leave it on Gamma Normal for calibration! (and be sure the custom gamma correction value is on 'Import' once you start loading/making custom gamma curves).

Going to User 1 for BT2020 and User 2 for Rec709NF is what you have to do (user modes/profiles vary based on how you loaded them).

If you just follow my guide without overthinking it, you'll end up just fine.

*If anyone finds an error or omission on my guide, let me know and I'll update it.
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post #2010 of 4164 Old 08-04-2017, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoBoss View Post
I have a x5000
Can i just download user modes from someone else into my machine ?
It has to be better than what ive got as standard
It doesn't really work that way. There isn't a single download to just copy someone else's settings. There are downloads for you to load various color profiles and gamma curves. What are you having trouble with?

I thought regular Blu-rays and SDR content looked absolutely phenomenal on my RS400 (X5000). I also thought a lot of my HDR 4K discs looked pretty good too. I only ended up in this thread and creating the guides I did because I occasionally ran across HDR 4K discs that looked very dark to me (defined as significantly worse brightness than the Blu-ray).

The biggest step you can take to 'fixing' a 4K HDR disc you think looks 'dark' is to follow this guide. Step 2 will help you load BT2020 and using Gamma D which used to be the only option and I don't recommend for long term use but you still need to load that BT2020 profile. Step 3 talks about creating custom gamma curves which are immensely better than gamma D, alternately to step 3, you can load Manni's premade custom gamma curves using Import/Export from the Projector Calibration Software using the same JVC import procedure but selecting 'gamma' from the pull-down menu on the import/export screen.

I do recommend following this calibration DIY and this gamma DIY if you want to get it dialed in the best you can. Custom gamma curves will have the biggest impact. Just keep in mind, the JVC Auto Calibration is more of a true-up and won't make massive changes (definition of massive varies). I still suggest doing both as the only barrier to auto calibration is a tripod and a $130 Spyder 5.

FWIW, even after auto calibration and custom gamma I still watch the regular Blu-ray over the 4K HDR Blu-ray for some titles; and because I'm stupid it took me a year of nagging on this forum to figure that out (I first complained about HDR on 7/7/2016). Honestly, following the guides I made and looking at this links I've put in this post will shorten your learning curve from months to about an hour.

If you have auto calibration questions, feel free to post them in here, otherwise post questions about the projector in the RS400 thread.
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