JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1241Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2461 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 332 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5461 Post(s)
Liked: 5676
@Dr. Spankenstein , you have the patience of an angel, keep up the good work

Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
Manni01 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2462 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 12:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dr. Spankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
I have a new problem that I just encountered while calibrating that is pretty disconcerting. I was going through the picture modes to calibrate (just read to stay in the same mode) and when I clicked from one picture mode to the next, the projector started making strange buzzing at different frequencies.


EDIT: It appears to be a problem with the iris. When I use the remote to change the settings from open down to -15, it begins making the sound along the way. The iris does appear to be changing.

This projector must be relatively new to you. Yes, it does make some frightening noises at times. The filter engagement (when moving say from the Standard Color Profile to the Reference Color Profile) can prove to be a real pant-filler the first time you hear it!


Then there is the Iris gearing that you have heard. It must be that these Picture/User modes are currently set-up with varying Iris settings. It is normal. (Though it sounds like your PJ is attempting to chew itself up...)


The final one is the e-Shift, which is a subtle buzzing that accompanies the very fast oscillation of an internal lens to generate the perception of 4K (often referred to a faux-K).


Oh, I almost forgot: there are also lens memories that can capture both Zoom and Shift settings. Those have their accompanying whizzes and gearing whirs.

JVC X750R, 133" DaLite HP (2.8 gain), OPPO UDP 203
Denon X4300H, DIYSoundGroup Fusion 15 L/C/R, Mirage FS V2 Surround, Mirage Omnisat V1 Surround/Atmos

Last edited by Dr. Spankenstein; 11-03-2017 at 12:35 PM.
Dr. Spankenstein is offline  
post #2463 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 12:34 PM
Advanced Member
 
TKNice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post
This projector must be relatively new to you. Yes, it does make some frightening noises at times. The filter engagement (when moving say from the Standard Color Profile to the Reference Color Profile) can prove to be a real pant-filler the first time you hear it.
Then there is the Iris gearing that you have heard. It must be that these Picture/User modes are currently set-up with varying Iris settings. It is normal.
The final one is the e-Shift, which is a subtle buzzing that accompanies the very fast oscillation of an internal lens to generate the perception of 4K (often referred to a faux-K).
I hope you're right Spank.. It certainly does make some frightening noises and you're right, at this point in the calibration, the different picture modes did have varying Iris settings. I've since set them all back to zero but if I change the iris manually with the remote in ANY of the picture modes to anything other than wide open or closed, this noise stays on until I set it back to zero. It basically means I can't have it set to anything other than open or closed. Is that part normal?

Thanks again!

Video: JVC RS540 w/Anamorphic Lens & 122" 2.35:1 CIH
Audio: Marantz SR7010 / XPA-3 / UPA-7 Sources: Nvidia Shield / Xbox One X
7. Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 EX (L R C), Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE (side & rear)
2. Subs: SVS PC-2000 & eD A3-300 12" / Sensory: Aura Pro Bass Shakers
4 HTM-200SE for Atmos/DTS:X Theater Pics / Desktop

Last edited by TKNice; 11-03-2017 at 12:38 PM.
TKNice is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2464 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 12:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dr. Spankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
I hope you're right Spank.. It certainly does make some frightening noises and you're right, at this point in the calibration, the different picture modes did have varying Iris settings. I've since set them all back to zero but if I change the iris manually with the remote in ANY of the picture modes to anything other than wide open or closed, this noise stays on until I set it back to zero. It basically means I can't have it set to anything other than open or closed. Is that part normal? Did you take a listen to the noise?

Thanks again!

Sorry, I have not. My work does not allow me to access such sites.


The issue does seem curious. I interpreted that the noise was only generated as the PJ was opening/closing the iris, not after it had actually reached the setting. That would seem like the blades of the iris might be loose as it stops when they are at their most extreme ends (and likely "locked" into that position.


Can you confirm if you have e-Shift engaged? Does the sound persist if this is turned off?


I do recall a recent autocal run where I had e-Shift engaged. As it ramped up the 10-point greyscale, the e-Shift buzz/whine did change pitches.

JVC X750R, 133" DaLite HP (2.8 gain), OPPO UDP 203
Denon X4300H, DIYSoundGroup Fusion 15 L/C/R, Mirage FS V2 Surround, Mirage Omnisat V1 Surround/Atmos
Dr. Spankenstein is offline  
post #2465 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 01:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
TKNice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post
Sorry, I have not. My work does not allow me to access such sites.


The issue does seem curious. I interpreted that the noise was only generated as the PJ was opening/closing the iris, not after it had actually reached the setting. That would seem like the blades of the iris might be loose as it stops when they are at their most extreme ends (and likely "locked" into that position.


Can you confirm if you have e-Shift engaged? Does the sound persist if this is turned off?


I do recall a recent autocal run where I had e-Shift engaged. As it ramped up the 10-point greyscale, the e-Shift buzz/whine did change pitches.
Ahh.. yeah, it's basically sounds the iris makes when it's changing, only in a loop and nonstop.

So I turned the projector off and let it sit for 20 minutes hoping something would reset. When I turned it back on, I went to my other HDMI input without a 4k signal that had eshift turned off. To my surprise, it let me change the iris and I did hear similar sounds as I moved through the stops but it sounded like I'd expect with some whirring and buzzing, then stopping. So I switched to the other input (with eshift enabled) and it DID let me move a few down into maybe -8 or -9 and seemed to be working, but then the noise started and it was back to the same behavior as before.

Ugh, unless you know of a way to reset something, I'd say my unit is faulty. This really stinks because everything was looking very good with this unit from my estimation.

Video: JVC RS540 w/Anamorphic Lens & 122" 2.35:1 CIH
Audio: Marantz SR7010 / XPA-3 / UPA-7 Sources: Nvidia Shield / Xbox One X
7. Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 EX (L R C), Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE (side & rear)
2. Subs: SVS PC-2000 & eD A3-300 12" / Sensory: Aura Pro Bass Shakers
4 HTM-200SE for Atmos/DTS:X Theater Pics / Desktop
TKNice is offline  
post #2466 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 01:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1841 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post
While it is a good tool to have in the toolbox, the endgame is to have the reflection that bounces off the meter sensor to be aimed to a location either directly above/below the projector lens.


You want to simultaneously: Center the shadow of the meter close to the center of the screen (this would be an easy indicator of you meter being directly in the light path of the PJ, aim the reflection off the meter directly above/below the PJ lens (so that the meter's sensor is parallel to the light path - improves color accuracy and maximizes light registered by meter), position the meter to the right side of the target box.


I'm going to have to snap a picture of this as it appears to be an often missed concept.
I’m trying to better understand “ so that the meters sensor is parallel to the light path”...the face of my meter faces the light output of the pj...I’m assuming that is correct...?

Video:JVC N7 Sony 85” 900F Sony 55” 900F
Audio: Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b Dual JL Audio D110
Receiver/Amp: Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2
Source: Panasonic UB820, Triple black velvet batcave
125" 2.35 Stewart Cima Neve Tab Tensioned Electric
asharma is online now  
post #2467 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 01:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dr. Spankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
I’m trying to better understand “ so that the meters sensor is parallel to the light path”...the face of my meter faces the light output of the pj...I’m assuming that is correct...?

Sorry, meant perpendicular. Having the meter parallel wouldn't make for a very productive calibration...
Maybe I should go all out with orthogonal?

Just pointing the meter towards the general direction of the PJ is not good enough. Thankfully, we are provided an easy index. It is provided by the reflection off the Spyder sensor. It will show up as a very bright spot on the wall (think of attempting to flash someone in the eye with the glint off a mirror) and this should be aimed directly above/below the PJ lens (NOT directly back into the lens).
This will be a visual indicator that your meter's sensor surface is set up perpendicular to the light path.
asharma likes this.

JVC X750R, 133" DaLite HP (2.8 gain), OPPO UDP 203
Denon X4300H, DIYSoundGroup Fusion 15 L/C/R, Mirage FS V2 Surround, Mirage Omnisat V1 Surround/Atmos

Last edited by Dr. Spankenstein; 11-03-2017 at 01:48 PM.
Dr. Spankenstein is offline  
post #2468 of 4211 Old 11-03-2017, 01:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dr. Spankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKNice View Post
Ahh.. yeah, it's basically sounds the iris makes when it's changing, only in a loop and nonstop.

So I turned the projector off and let it sit for 20 minutes hoping something would reset. When I turned it back on, I went to my other HDMI input without a 4k signal that had eshift turned off. To my surprise, it let me change the iris and I did hear similar sounds as I moved through the stops but it sounded like I'd expect with some whirring and buzzing, then stopping. So I switched to the other input (with eshift enabled) and it DID let me move a few down into maybe -8 or -9 and seemed to be working, but then the noise started and it was back to the same behavior as before.

Ugh, unless you know of a way to reset something, I'd say my unit is faulty. This really stinks because everything was looking very good with this unit from my estimation.
That does stink. Seems like a sensor used to index where the iris motor should stop is faulty. I would look into sending it in.

JVC X750R, 133" DaLite HP (2.8 gain), OPPO UDP 203
Denon X4300H, DIYSoundGroup Fusion 15 L/C/R, Mirage FS V2 Surround, Mirage Omnisat V1 Surround/Atmos
Dr. Spankenstein is offline  
post #2469 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 05:47 AM
Member
 
remenakb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Caledonia, MI
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I have an i1 pro 2 and noticed the calibration manual says you could point this device at the screen (v9 calibration program). This makes sense to me since the end result you are after is the reflected image. But all I usually see talked about is the Spyder sensor and pointed at the projector. Does anyone have experience pointing the the screen? Is this a good way to do it? Or is the though calibrate the light coming out of the projector to get that right, then hand dial in an influence the screen has on the color? Seems like a better result would be to let the i1 look at the screen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
remenakb is offline  
post #2470 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 06:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
Autocal needs the spyder pointed at the projector. Won’t have enough nor the right light for it to work otherwise.

But yes many people then use a meter pointed at the screen and calibration software like Calman or HCFR to manually adjust and incorporate the screen's impact into color temp and grayscale.
nathan_h is offline  
post #2471 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 06:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,949
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by remenakb View Post
I have an i1 pro 2 and noticed the calibration manual says you could point this device at the screen (v9 calibration program).
Where exactly in the manual is this described? I have the 1216NOY-SW-XX version manual and cannot find it. The only thing specific to the Pro2 is that it needs zero calibration.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #2472 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 06:23 AM
Member
 
remenakb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Caledonia, MI
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Where exactly in the manual is this described? I have the 1216NOY-SW-XX version manual and cannot find it. The only thing specific to the Pro2 is that it needs zero calibration.


It's on page 8 section 3


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
remenakb is offline  
post #2473 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 06:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,949
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by remenakb View Post
It's on page 8 section 3

Thanks. Interesting.
(That’s only in the v10 manual, not in v9)
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #2474 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 332 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5461 Post(s)
Liked: 5676
It's been discussed already, i1pro2 should be facing the screen and Spyders should be facing the projector when used with the JVC Autocal.

We only speak about facing the screen because this thread is about the V6/V7 for the 2015 models, and these don't support the i1pro2, only the Spyders 4 (V6) and 5 (V7) Express/Pro/Elite.
Manni01 is online now  
post #2475 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 08:47 AM
Member
 
remenakb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Caledonia, MI
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
It's been discussed already, i1pro2 should be facing the screen and Spyders should be facing the projector when used with the JVC Autocal.



We only speak about facing the screen because this thread is about the V6/V7 for the 2015 models, and these don't support the i1pro2, only the Spyders 4 (V6) and 5 (V7) Express/Pro/Elite.


Thanks, I will do some more thorough searches to find that discussion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
remenakb is offline  
post #2476 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 11:45 AM
Member
 
raullopez1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: McFarland CA
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Last night I calibrated my projector on user 1 profile with manni's dv curve.Im concerned that I might have done something wrong,should my gamma follow a straight line or follow the s shape?it's currently mostly straight after the calibration.
raullopez1234 is offline  
post #2477 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 332 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5461 Post(s)
Liked: 5676
Quote:
Originally Posted by raullopez1234 View Post
Last night I calibrated my projector on user 1 profile with manni's dv curve.Im concerned that I might have done something wrong,should my gamma follow a straight line or follow the s shape?it's currently mostly straight after the calibration.
The gamma autocal log post-calibration is sadly hard wired on gamma 2.2, not on the gamma selected during the calibration. For a calibration to follow the straight line, it has to be 2.2. This is why I suggest to run the gamma autocal with normal (2.2) so that you can check if the calibration is accurate or not. If you select any other gamma, there is no way to know if you're on target or not. For example, if you select gamma D, you'll get an s-shape, but you won't know if it's on target or not (unless you convert the luminance readings in the log into targets, good luck with that!).

As one gamma calibration sets all the gamma curves for that iris/lamp mode/filter/cmd combination, use gamma normal during the autocal, check that you meet the target (straight line) and THEN select the gamma curve you want to use in that user mode. It will have been calibrated along normal as long as you don't change iris/lamp mode/filter/CMD.
Manni01 is online now  
post #2478 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 01:51 PM
Member
 
raullopez1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: McFarland CA
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by raullopez1234 View Post
Last night I calibrated my projector on user 1 profile with manni's dv curve.Im concerned that I might have done something wrong,should my gamma follow a straight line or follow the s shape?it's currently mostly straight after the calibration.
The gamma autocal log post-calibration is sadly hard wired on gamma 2.2, not on the gamma selected during the calibration. For a calibration to follow the straight line, it has to be 2.2. This is why I suggest to run the gamma autocal with normal (2.2) so that you can check if the calibration is accurate or not. If you select any other gamma, there is no way to know if you're on target or not. For example, if you select gamma D, you'll get an s-shape, but you won't know if it's on target or not (unless you convert the luminance readings in the log into targets, good luck with that!).

As one gamma calibration sets all the gamma curves for that iris/lamp mode/filter/cmd combination, use gamma normal during the autocal, check that you meet the target (straight line) and THEN select the gamma curve you want to use in that user mode. It will have been calibrated along normal as long as you don't change iris/lamp mode/filter/CMD.
Thanks Manni for the reply and all help you give us here in the forums
raullopez1234 is offline  
post #2479 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 02:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,039
Mentioned: 491 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6925 Post(s)
Liked: 6635
Quote:
Originally Posted by raullopez1234 View Post
Last night I calibrated my projector on user 1 profile with manni's dv curve.Im concerned that I might have done something wrong,should my gamma follow a straight line or follow the s shape?it's currently mostly straight after the calibration.
You dont want to directly calibrate Manni's Gamma curve, you will break it.

You need to calibrate NORMAL gamma only if you plan on using any IMPORT Gamma curves.... Since they are offsets for Normal Gamma.
nathan_h likes this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #2480 of 4211 Old 11-04-2017, 02:33 PM
Member
 
raullopez1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: McFarland CA
Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by raullopez1234 View Post
Last night I calibrated my projector on user 1 profile with manni's dv curve.Im concerned that I might have done something wrong,should my gamma follow a straight line or follow the s shape?it's currently mostly straight after the calibration.
You dont want to directly calibrate Manni's Gamma curve, you will break it.

You need to calibrate NORMAL gamma only if you plan on using any IMPORT Gamma curves.... Since they are offsets for Normal Gamma.
Thanks Javs.I will try that tonight
raullopez1234 is offline  
post #2481 of 4211 Old 11-05-2017, 07:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1841 Post(s)
Liked: 579
New autocal

So I moved the sensor closer to pj , so I was at the right side of yellow rectangle for my 4k hdr high lamp, iris 0, CMD low...a week ago I was in the middle of the rectangle and this new Autocal today showed the Blu line slightly below gamma 2.2...feels like I eeked out a weee bit more brightness...

On another note, I decided to Autocal my 1080p setting, low lamp, iris minus 9 for the first time with 350 high lamp hours on bulb...yup, lotta droop there, Blu line quite a bit lower than white line...I keeeeep forgetting how good a good clean 1080p disc looks on this pj...
nathan_h and Dr. Spankenstein like this.

Video:JVC N7 Sony 85” 900F Sony 55” 900F
Audio: Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b Dual JL Audio D110
Receiver/Amp: Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2
Source: Panasonic UB820, Triple black velvet batcave
125" 2.35 Stewart Cima Neve Tab Tensioned Electric
asharma is online now  
post #2482 of 4211 Old 11-05-2017, 08:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,949
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
So I moved the sensor closer to pj , so I was at the right side of yellow rectangle for my 4k hdr high lamp, iris 0, CMD low...a week ago I was in the middle of the rectangle and this new Autocal today showed the Blu line slightly below gamma 2.2...feels like I eeked out a weee bit more brightness...
The blue line shows the shape of the measured gamma curve relative to 2.2. It does not show the luminance.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #2483 of 4211 Old 11-05-2017, 08:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1841 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The blue line shows the shape of the measured gamma curve relative to 2.2. It does not show the luminance.
Thanks, so if it is drooping pre Autocal, what visual impact will the new Autocal have?

Video:JVC N7 Sony 85” 900F Sony 55” 900F
Audio: Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b Dual JL Audio D110
Receiver/Amp: Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2
Source: Panasonic UB820, Triple black velvet batcave
125" 2.35 Stewart Cima Neve Tab Tensioned Electric
asharma is online now  
post #2484 of 4211 Old 11-05-2017, 10:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 6,949
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4884 Post(s)
Liked: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Thanks, so if it is drooping pre Autocal, what visual impact will the new Autocal have?
A too-high gamma indicates that mid tone is too dark, and vice versa.
As been discussed before, with JVC projectors sometimes you can get a little more luminance by starting with a higher preset colour temperature (e.g., 7500K) and use the RGB Gain controls to bring it back down to D65.
asharma likes this.
Dominic Chan is online now  
post #2485 of 4211 Old 11-06-2017, 04:28 PM
Member
 
lawsondl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West End, NC
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Hi all: Nice work here. A quick question from a newbie 640 owner.

The color profiles available for download (referenced in Manni's post #9 (e.g. Rec709 etc.) refer to gammas but don't specify if these are the 1000nit or 4000nit curves earlier in the thread. Does it make sense to still use those with these color profiles, or just the existing ones included from JVC? I'm working through this extensive thread but haven't come across an answer.

Thanks in advance.

JVC RS-640 | Stewart Ultramatte 150 114" 16:9 | James Loudspeakers fronts (603BE, 8.2 SDX) and surrounds (8.2 SDX), Ceiliing Proficient Audio, SVS PB-10 | Denon 4300H | Sherwood A-965 Power Amp | Oppo 203 | FlexRaid Server| CQC Home Automation

Last edited by lawsondl; 11-06-2017 at 04:37 PM.
lawsondl is offline  
post #2486 of 4211 Old 11-07-2017, 05:50 AM
Member
 
lawsondl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West End, NC
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You dont want to directly calibrate Manni's Gamma curve, you will break it.

You need to calibrate NORMAL gamma only if you plan on using any IMPORT Gamma curves.... Since they are offsets for Normal Gamma.
Javs: Do the links still work for the gamma curve downloads (Manni's curves)? When I try a save as from the link I get a 4kb file size that isn't recognized by the JVC cal software although the extension is correct.

JVC RS-640 | Stewart Ultramatte 150 114" 16:9 | James Loudspeakers fronts (603BE, 8.2 SDX) and surrounds (8.2 SDX), Ceiliing Proficient Audio, SVS PB-10 | Denon 4300H | Sherwood A-965 Power Amp | Oppo 203 | FlexRaid Server| CQC Home Automation
lawsondl is offline  
post #2487 of 4211 Old 11-07-2017, 09:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
DVD MAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Marlboro, NJ
Posts: 973
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Hi Manni,

Have a question hopefully yo can answer for me. The latest updated From R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite. Has added:

HDR Clipping Test Patterns
 11. White Clipping 1,000 nit_HDR10 (added)
 12. White Clipping 2,000 nit_HDR10 (added)
 13. White Clipping 4,000 nit_HDR10 (added)

I have added the the following setting to my RS500 with the Arve tool:
bm-110.0
bbi-0.005
bbo-16.0
bh-set hard clip 4000

My RS500 output with 150 hrs low lamp is 108 nits.

When viewing the new white clipping pattern at 1000 nits or 2000 nits I can see the bars up to 4000 nits is this correct? If these patterns or correctly graded should I only see up to 1000nits when viewing 1000 nits pattern as well as 2000 nits when viewing the 2000 nit pattern?

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	F03789C7-4342-4458-8738-60DBA37666FC.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	135.8 KB
ID:	2311494  
DVD MAN is offline  
post #2488 of 4211 Old 11-07-2017, 09:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 9,329
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2726 Post(s)
Liked: 1961
You may want to ask in the thread about those patterns.

But in general they are not useful for setting the gamma on our projectors because they are not granular enough. You should use actual video content with peak values in the image that you want to be able to see in your tone mapping.

My link has some examples.

(The back level patterns are better for setting HDR gamma.)
nathan_h is offline  
post #2489 of 4211 Old 11-07-2017, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
asharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,258
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1841 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVD MAN View Post
Hi Manni,

Have a question hopefully yo can answer for me. The latest updated From R.Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite. Has added:

HDR Clipping Test Patterns
 11. White Clipping 1,000 nit_HDR10 (added)
 12. White Clipping 2,000 nit_HDR10 (added)
 13. White Clipping 4,000 nit_HDR10 (added)

I have added the the following setting to my RS500 with the Arve tool:
bm-110.0
bbi-0.005
bbo-16.0
bh-set hard clip 4000

My RS500 output with 150 hrs low lamp is 108 nits.

When viewing the new white clipping pattern at 1000 nits or 2000 nits I can see the bars up to 4000 nits is this correct? If these patterns or correctly graded should I only see up to 1000nits when viewing 1000 nits pattern as well as 2000 nits when viewing the 2000 nit pattern?

Thanks
I had the same question...how relevant are the white clipping patterns, given we use the Arve tool...black clipping I do get and understand...

Video:JVC N7 Sony 85” 900F Sony 55” 900F
Audio: Paradigm Prestige 95, 55C, 15b Dual JL Audio D110
Receiver/Amp: Anthem 1120, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2
Source: Panasonic UB820, Triple black velvet batcave
125" 2.35 Stewart Cima Neve Tab Tensioned Electric
asharma is online now  
post #2490 of 4211 Old 11-07-2017, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Manni01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,141
Mentioned: 332 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5461 Post(s)
Liked: 5676
Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
I had the same question...how relevant are the white clipping patterns, given we use the Arve tool...black clipping I do get and understand...
To use the clipping patterns, you need to know what to look for. Because unlike SDR patterns where each band shows a different level, in HDR there are lots of levels between each band. So you could look at a pattern and think "I'm not clipping" when in fact you are clipping. This is especially the case if you're not careful in the way you shape the roll off. No time to get into details, but when looking at HDR contrast clipping patterns you want to make sure that the tone between each band is significantly different. If it's similar or barely distinguishable, you are most likely crushing levels due to the shape of your curve.

This is why some prefer looking at actual content, but that causes other problems because there is no way to know which levels the content has unless you use Arve's tool to show the clipped levels. I find this to be a better solution that to simply use actual content, but you need to set the tool to show the clipped areas.

Short answer is the white clipping pattern are very relevant even when using Arve's tool, as long as you know how to use them, but there are other/better ways to check for clipping, both using the tool and using real content

One of my favorite real content clips to use to check for detail is the clip from The Shallows where you see the waves (for example breaking on the cliff). If you're clipping white, you lose a lot of detail in the white foam. I also use the clip from Mad Max during the sand storm, for example where Max is hanging at the back of the car before it explodes, or during one of the explosions. I posted in the main thread how I used this clip and how to set Arve's tool to show clipping.
nathan_h and asharma like this.
Manni01 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off