JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 4164 Old 12-22-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
The 709 is like the std for blu ray, etc....and the RS57 only came out like 3-4 years ago....can't imagine it doesn't have the profile in it (like the natural setting)?

Or are you saying it actually doesn't??
See this post
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post44984706
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post #2612 of 4164 Old 12-22-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Ok, so does my RS57 have the Rec709 profile in it?

And that link was about the 'NF' version of that 709 profile?
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post #2613 of 4164 Old 12-22-2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Ok, so does my RS57 have the Rec709 profile in it?

And that link was about the 'NF' version of that 709 profile?
NF simply denotes No Filter.
That post was about the 2016 models, but even previous models have “standard” profiles that have wider gamut than Rec709.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 12-22-2017 at 08:50 PM.
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post #2614 of 4164 Old 12-23-2017, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
(I was asking since you used the term "profile" in your previous post). Regardless, where did you see that the "predefined profiles" cannot be calibrated?
Also, calibrated or not, you need to use a colour profile for each mode.



So we have "Picture mode" with 4 preset (Cinema, Animation, Natural, HDR)



And "color profile" that depends on the "picture mode". Normally both of them are autodetect, so if I play a YUV or RGB video, it turn in Cinema and depending of the color space (YUV, RGB, YUV10) it selects Cinema or HDR
If I play an HDR video with metadata, the HDR "Picture mode" is selected and the color profile switch to what is present in metadata.
Custom "color customization" (i.e to compensate the probe shall go in the "Picture management") can be left untouched.
So, coming back to the questions: is correct my understanding that I shall calibrate all the "Picture mode"? If so, what "color profile" shall I use (in particular when it comes to HDR)
Also, shall I assume that the calibration is within the boundaries of the "color mode", so a calibration for cinema will affect all the "color profile" but not the other "color mode" (i.e. calibration for cinema won't affect HDR)?
Thanks, bye
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post #2615 of 4164 Old 12-23-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menion View Post

And "color profile" that depends on the "picture mode". Normally both of them are autodetect, so if I play a YUV or RGB video, it turn in Cinema and depending of the color space (YUV, RGB, YUV10) it selects Cinema or HDR
If I play an HDR video with metadata, the HDR "Picture mode" is selected and the color profile switch to what is present in metadata.
Custom "color customization" (i.e to compensate the probe shall go in the "Picture management") can be left untouched.
So, coming back to the questions: is correct my understanding that I shall calibrate all the "Picture mode"? If so, what "color profile" shall I use (in particular when it comes to HDR)
Also, shall I assume that the calibration is within the boundaries of the "color mode", so a calibration for cinema will affect all the "color profile" but not the other "color mode" (i.e. calibration for cinema won't affect HDR)?
Thanks, bye
The way I understand it, Picture Mode is simply a specific combination of settings such as Colour Profile, Colour Temperature, Gamma, etc. Unfortunately some of the names (Cinema etc) are used for both Picture Mode and Colour Profile, which can be confusing sometimes.
Thus AutoCal does not calibrate the Picture Modes as such, but rather, the individual Colour Profile, Colour Temperature, Gamma settings. Once these are calibrated, you can use them in other Picture Modes and carry over the calibration results.
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post #2616 of 4164 Old 12-23-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
NF simply denotes No Filter.
That post was about the 2016 models, but even previous models have “standard” profiles that have wider gamut than Rec709.
These are what's available to me on my RS57 (attached).

I run 'Standard' picture mode, then the 'Natural' color profile.

It only says its the 'HDTV Standard'.

Most all the other color profiles throw a filter on and things look wack.
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post #2617 of 4164 Old 12-23-2017, 03:02 PM
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Also, should I be concerned about the zero values for Red and Green 'Z' numbers? I don't know if those were sensor readings or adjustment/correction amounts. Though it would seem strange that you wouldn't have some adjustment with 3 decimal points allowed.

??
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post #2618 of 4164 Old 12-24-2017, 10:00 PM
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I just spent quite a while trying to calibrate my RS540 and am having issues. I am currently using lens on -3, auto 2; imported REC-709NF color profile, 6500k, normal gamma, CMD off, low lamp. I have a 130" Centerstage XD screen a little futher back than max zoom, fully light controlled room. I have a spyder5 for autocal and an i1display pro for HCFR.

-3 lens gets me 14.9ftl is my first issue. Does that seem reasonable?

I followed the guide and went from 0 to -15 CMD off and off with standard color then did color for the REC-709NF. Here's my before measurement:




And here are my afters, it looks way worse. In autocal, everything looked good along the way.






Any idea what I could have done wrong or why I need the lens at -3? Standard color profile is the same ftl. Natural picture mode hits 15.5flt, at -0 it's 17.1ftl. High bright temp gets 20.2ftl at -0 and high lamp, high bright, -0 lens only hits 27.5ftl.

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post #2619 of 4164 Old 12-24-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post
And here are my afters, it looks way worse. In autocal, everything looked good along the way.
The After measurements look worse as the white balance calibrated using the Spyder disagrees with what the i1D3 sees. You can use a custom white point (with offsets in xy to compensate for the Spyder error), to simply use the i1D3 to re-adjust the RGB Gains (do not touch the RGB Offsets).
BTW, you should run HCFR with the Iris in Manual rather than Auto.
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post #2620 of 4164 Old 12-24-2017, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The After measurements look worse as the white balance calibrated using the Spyder disagrees with what the i1D3 sees. You can use a custom white point (with offsets in xy to compensate for the Spyder error), to simply use the i1D3 to re-adjust the RGB Gains (do not touch the RGB Offsets).
BTW, you should run HCFR with the Iris in Manual rather than Auto.
Thanks, here is manual -3 iris, custom 2.4 gamma. Differntly off. If the meters are that far apart (dE's up to 13) is the spyder helping or just ruining everything? Primary/secondaries are way off too, dE's up to 14. How would I use a custom white point, in autocal or HCFR? And then the RGB gain/offset under color temp is like a 2 point gamma control? Why would I only adjust the gain (high end) and not the offset (low end)? Even then, that would just be for 1 iris level.

This is so much more difficult than a normal 2 or 11pt gamma/color adjust that I've done before. Or should I just trust whatever the spyder did?


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post #2621 of 4164 Old 12-25-2017, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post
Thanks, here is manual -3 iris, custom 2.4 gamma. Differntly off. If the meters are that far apart (dE's up to 13) is the spyder helping or just ruining everything?
The Spyder can make things worse, if your projector is performing properly in the first place. Autocal, when it works well, has some advantages over manual calibration as it works at a lower level so calibrating one gamma level (e.g., 2.2) will "fix" all gamma levels.
However, any calibration results can only be as good as the meter used for calibration. In the first post (by Manni) there are a few links describing how to correct for errors in the Spyder.

BTW, it's a common misconception that RGB Gain only affects the upper end. It applies to the entire range proportionately. Here's an example showing the effect of changing only the RGB gains:

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 12-25-2017 at 06:14 AM.
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post #2622 of 4164 Old 12-26-2017, 11:52 AM
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I did an autocal on my X5900, with software v10 and spyder 5.
I run two autocal on Cinema+HDR+6500K and HDR+HDR+gamma for HDR.
A part of the good graphs (gamma ev < 0.08) in the end it removed the blu dominance I had (human lips violet).
The overall result seems ok, even if coming from Sony everything seems to be a little bit too warm (but was the same also before autocal)
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post #2623 of 4164 Old 12-28-2017, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Didn't get around to doing the direct link until last night, but I did and it was an effortless connection! Thanks Dominic!

But, my results were not to my liking unfortunately.

Background>> RS57 (X700), bought used earlier in the year with about 590 total hrs on it. Had some good black crush, had to run gamma in the 2.0/2.1 range, or run a 2.2 gamma with dark gamma +2 (but I pushed all the colors--and white! Didn't know I was suppose to do just white).
Ended up with about +1 bright, 0 contrast, +3 color, 0 tint, via AVS 709 disc and blue filters. Running 'Natural' (THX was way too dark, with black crush, and very warm), used the 7000 color temp (6500 was too warm).

Pic was pretty good, natural skin tones, little black crush perhaps.

At the 860 hr mark last night> Did the autocal to mostly help with the gamma droop. But I decided to try the color+gamma (quality gamma setting). The result was a very very warm/red temp, even at 7000 color temp. Colors appeared oversaturated, skin tones too red, etc.
Popped the AVS 709 disc in and ended up with +1 Bright, 0-3 contrast, -10 to -13 color (dependent on which blue filter used--Avia or Digital Vid Essentials).

Tried 2.4 gamma with +2 dark gamma (only the white) ---didn't seem improved from what I had before in regards to shadow detail, it seemed worse. The mids-brights might of been a little better (because 2.4 gamma I guess). Settled on 2.3 gamma with +2 on dark gamma, though I might go lower to 2.2 or even 2.1, but the whole point of the gamma autocal was to fix that I thought.

At this point I'm thinking of restoring/reverting via the INIT file, then doing only a gamma autocal.

But, this autocal was done with the iris fully open (manual of course), spyder as close to the PJ, but within the box. When I close the iris down to -11 w/auto2 DI (my usual setting before--have a small 80" diagonal .9 grey), is when it seemed the color temp got real warm and things got too dim. Running the iris manual, fully open, seemed to be more accurate color temp wise, and less black crush, etc.

So, maybe I should run the color+gamma again at the -11 iris point and see how that looks, before I go the 'restore the INIT file route'? That INIT file won't be re-touched, right?

Also possible my spyder4pro meter isn't a great sample (no way to know). If that's the case, I'm ok with restoring the INIT file as I liked the colors @ 7000, then just do the gamma autocal.

I also noticed some '0000.000' numbers (red and green) when the calibrating gamma log was being created. I tried to do some running screen shots to capture it (follows). The calibration 'results' didn't show any 000.0 numbers though.

Also, I don't quite understand the color temp result. Manual was saying that results should be within the red circle, which they are, but that red circle appears to be close to the 6000 temp area, and the white color temp result is 6070. I chose 6500 in the calibration settings before the autocal. ??
So I ended up doing a INIT restore, with the intent on doing just a gamma cal.

After the INIT restore, I did a log only with the autocal to see where my RS57 was as the starting point. I know there's normally a 'before' line for gamma and color in the calibration results, but there was no 'before' for the color temp graph, which the log would show me. As we can see, my color temp was venturing much warmer at lower APL's.

Log only>
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post #2624 of 4164 Old 12-28-2017, 11:02 AM
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Regardless, I wanted to try and do a gamma only calibration.

But after I ran a gamma only calibration, the result showed no gamma correction being done. This was the graph at the end of the gamma only cal, showing the 'after' line deviating from the 2.2 green line quite a bit. I was perplexed>
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post #2625 of 4164 Old 12-28-2017, 11:24 AM
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So I decided to do a full color+gamma autocal since my color temp wasn't even across different APL's.

First color+gamma was done at full open iris.
Then I did color+gamma at -10, -9 and -11 iris settings (in that order). The -10 autocal was with the spyder positioned when set at the full iris open position, because in the autocal sw you adjust the iris setting AFTER the spyder is positioned in the rectangular box. That didn't seem right to me. I repositioned the spyder closer for the -9 and -11 iris settings. So -9 position was actually under the -10 iris, etc.

Gamma came out spot on the green line, color temp was still near the 6000k mark.

I noticed how drastically different the colors where when I clicked my iris beyond the iris positions I'd autocal'd. I'm running -11 with auto2 DI setting, so I was worried that the colors would shift when the DI was clamping down below the -9 point, but didn't notice anything. It seems the autocal iris setting is specific to the manual iris point. But it did seem that every single manual iris point would be a different calibration, so be sure to autocal every single manual iris point you actually use.

Here's my results from the -11 iris position.
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post #2626 of 4164 Old 12-28-2017, 11:29 AM
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So, even though I autocal'd at the 6500k color temp every time, my result still ends up around 6000k. So I just use the 7000k color temp in my RS57 menu.

Would it help that I redo my autocal with 7000k selected instead? It was my understanding that autocal calibrated all the color temp presets, if so, there shouldn't be a difference if I autocal'd @ 7000k?
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post #2627 of 4164 Old 12-31-2017, 12:40 AM
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Hi all
I have a question: on a JVC X5900, if I have calibrated a certain "Picture Mode" (Cinema) with a certain "color temp" (6500K) and a specific "Color Profile", in this case HDR which is automatically selected for RGB and YUV8 inputs, and a Gamma. Shall I assume that the same calibration is valid also for other "Color Profile"?
This because, I think to understand that the calibration belongs to the combination of Picture Mode, "color temp" and "gamm", while "Color Pofile" is derivated from the same calibration. Is this assumption correct?
Bye
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post #2628 of 4164 Old 12-31-2017, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

I noticed how drastically different the colors where when I clicked my iris beyond the iris positions I'd autocal'd. I'm running -11 with auto2 DI setting, so I was worried that the colors would shift when the DI was clamping down below the -9 point, but didn't notice anything. It seems the autocal iris setting is specific to the manual iris point. But it did seem that every single manual iris point would be a different calibration, so be sure to autocal every single manual iris point you actually use.
The manual iris points are divided into 4 groups. I don't remember where the boundaries are for each group, but as Manni mentioned, doing it at 0, -5, -10, -15 covers all points.
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post #2629 of 4164 Old 12-31-2017, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I have posted information about the JVC Macro V2.0 for the Vertex in the JVC 2015 thread here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55408090

It contains two new Dolby Cinema Emulation curves and one HLG curve. Please read the PDF before asking any questions, and post in the relevant thread.

I won't answer any question already answered in the PDF.

Enjoy!

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
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post #2630 of 4164 Old 12-31-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The manual iris points are divided into 4 groups. I don't remember where the boundaries are for each group, but as Manni mentioned, doing it at 0, -5, -10, -15 covers all points.
Ok, I'll try that.

But coulda sworn I saw a recommendation to calibrate your actual iris point, even after doing the 4 group points. I.E., if you do 0, -5, -10, -15, but you run your manual iris @ -12, you should also calibrate at the -12 point.
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post #2631 of 4164 Old 12-31-2017, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post
Ok, I'll try that.

But coulda sworn I saw a recommendation to calibrate your actual iris point, even after doing the 4 group points. I.E., if you do 0, -5, -10, -15, but you run your manual iris @ -12, you should also calibrate at the -12 point.
You do one or the other, not one after the other.
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post #2632 of 4164 Old 01-04-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menion View Post
Hi all
I have a question: on a JVC X5900, if I have calibrated a certain "Picture Mode" (Cinema) with a certain "color temp" (6500K) and a specific "Color Profile", in this case HDR which is automatically selected for RGB and YUV8 inputs, and a Gamma. Shall I assume that the same calibration is valid also for other "Color Profile"?
This because, I think to understand that the calibration belongs to the combination of Picture Mode, "color temp" and "gamm", while "Color Pofile" is derivated from the same calibration. Is this assumption correct?
Bye
Hello
No one has some information regarding this topic?
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post #2633 of 4164 Old 01-04-2018, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menion View Post
Hello
No one has some information regarding this topic?
I'm not quite sure what you're actually asking. As mentioned in my previous post, what get calibrated are the Colour Profile, Colour Temperature, Gamma. The "Picture Mode" is just a combination of the others and does not get calibrated directly.
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post #2634 of 4164 Old 01-04-2018, 12:20 PM
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Mmm most probably I am the one not clear here. Under "picture mode" there are multiple "color profile" (for instance mode "cinema" has three preset color profile (natural, cinema, HDR) each of those can be set to a specific gamma. So, calibration affects each color profile and NOT picture mode? This because I got somehow confused by the calibration filename. It includes the picture mode name and not the color profile, so that's why I thought that was the mode as whole to be calibrated
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post #2635 of 4164 Old 01-04-2018, 03:56 PM
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Autocal for Manni’s bt2020NF

Folks, before I run phase 3 Autocal for Manni’s BT2020NF color profile (trying to optimize hdr brightness) would phase 1 just be run using non reference color profiles that don’t use the filter? ie. Cinema or Natural NOT Reference, given the BT2020NF doesn’t use a filter?

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post #2636 of 4164 Old 01-04-2018, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Folks, before I run phase 3 Autocal for Manni’s BT2020NF color profile (trying to optimize hdr brightness) would phase 1 just be run using non reference color profiles that don’t use the filter? ie. Cinema or Natural NOT Reference, given the BT2020NF doesn’t use a filter?
Completely forgot about that. Both would be incorrect, so I need to look into this (not sure when I'll be able to). You can't just replace color profile after the autocal and expect accurate results. I would expect the results to be better using a colour profile without a filter before applying BT2020-NF, but you need to take measurements after the autocal to find which would give best results.

JVC Autocal Software V11 Calibration for 2019 Models (Google)
Batch Utility V4.02 May 16 2019 to automate measurements files for madVR with support for BD Folders
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post #2637 of 4164 Old 01-04-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Completely forgot about that. Both would be incorrect, so I need to look into this (not sure when I'll be able to). You can't just replace color profile after the autocal and expect accurate results. I would expect the results to be better using a colour profile without a filter before applying BT2020-NF, but you need to take measurements after the autocal to find which would give best results.
Thanks, I won’t use bt2020NF then since there is more investigation to be done...at 85-87 nits looks like a competent calibrator, a higher gain screen, or a smaller screen are my only 3 options to increase brightness...

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post #2638 of 4164 Old 01-06-2018, 02:17 PM
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Quesiton: a calibration performed with CMD off is valid also for CMD ON (of course same profile, gamma, etc...) even if maybe a little suboptimal?
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post #2639 of 4164 Old 01-06-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Menion View Post
Quesiton: a calibration performed with CMD off is valid also for CMD ON (of course same profile, gamma, etc...) even if maybe a little suboptimal?
My understanding is that with a change to any of the following:

- Lamp high/low
- Filter on/off
- CMD on/off
- Iris (changes of more than a few clicks either way)

You should probably rerun your autocal. In your case, you might be able to correct gamma/grayscale fine using Calman/HCFR with the internal controls. Really depends on how far off they are.
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post #2640 of 4164 Old 01-06-2018, 02:43 PM
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Saw the cine4home review of the first jvc auto cal. They didnt recommend to use a spyder on a new pj.
With the current software rev and spyder 5 is the consensus still the same?

I have a 5500 and think red is a bit to much and perhaps green too and was wondering to go the spyder 5 way if its precise enough.
What about using your eyes? Lol. I think for colors it should be doable. Gamma curves less so.

Had an xrite pro a few years back and it was fine but will not go full in again due to time.
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