JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 90 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2671 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I recalled the recent discussion, but I misinterpreted what you were telling Asharma.

Yeah, I remember that now, it's just been a long time. I'd forgotten that when I made my original "S5" (Spyder 5) profiles, I'd just done a regular autocal, ran measurements between my Spyder and i1D3 in Calman (or probably HCFR since Calman didn't support the Spyder at the time) computed the new profile, and uploaded it.

I also need to go download Chad's profile creator spreadsheet from the Calman forums, I just made my own, I'm sure his is more accurate.

Doh, I guess that used one I saw wasn't an i1pro2. But that's the rub isn't it, how do you know if your i1d3 is good. I assume mine is, but it's an assumption. Of course the reasons above is why I'd never go buy a new one for $1000+. I thought I found one on Ebay for $375, but apparently it's an older one, not the 2.

Good to know. We'll see when I get back to this, I may be able to "fix" my cal by just reverting to a calibration before yesterday. Things seemed decent before I (errantly) ran autocal when I shouldn't have last night. Maybe I'll take the time to upload my prior autocal and do a quick run through with Calman and my i1D3 and see how things look. My cal has actually been looking pretty good in Calman, though my secondaries were off a decent amount last time I checked.
I checked two or three i1d3 (before returning them for other reasons) and they were all so close to my i1pro2 (with the right profile for LCOS) that I wouldn't have profiled them to my i1pro2 as I woudn't have know which was more correct. The meter survey I posted (probably linked to in the first post) also shows very little variance and great accuracy for the i1d3, unlike the Spyders. So I would assume yours is good unless something seems off with it. The main problem of the i1d3 is its accuracy in low light. It's very poor and it can't read black, so you can't use it for BT1886 gamma calibrations or to read on/off contrast. That's why I sent it back and got a Discus instead (i1pro2-Discus is the best combo you'll find unless you go for true reference meters and silly prices). But above 5% white, the i1d3 is fine on LCOS, for both gamut and gamma.

You don't need to get to the Calman forum for Chad's spreadsheet, both his original method and my modified ones are linked to in the first post, as well as my own spreadsheet and method to calibrate HDR-BT2020 (as Chad's method extrapolates from rec-709).

In fact I'm working on a way to improve this method because I've ran into issues when the native gamut is undersaturated as I initially feared would be the case, but I don't have the time to discuss now or document.

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post #2672 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
The main problem of the i1d3 is its accuracy in low light. It's very poor and it can't read black, so you can't use it for BT1886 gamma calibrations or to read on/off contrast.
To calibrate gamma I have the i1D3 face the projector lens, with the diffuser on. It may still have problems when the Auto Iris is on, but I don't calibrate that way.
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post #2673 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To calibrate gamma I have the i1D3 face the projector lens, with the diffuser on. It may still have problems when the Auto Iris is on, but I don't calibrate that way.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, you can't use the i1d3 to calibrate BT1886 gamma off the screen, which is the way it should be done to take the screen into account.

With the Discus I can measure fairly reliably my on/off contrast facing the screen, even with the DI on. I don't calibrate with the DI, but it's still useful to measure its impact.

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post #2674 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, you can't use the i1d3 to calibrate BT1886 gamma off the screen, which is the way it should be done to take the screen into account.
The screen reflectance is linear, so I don't see any way the gamma can be affected by the screen, unlike grey scale, luminance etc.
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post #2675 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The screen reflectance is linear, so I don't see any way the gamma can be affected by the screen, unlike grey scale, luminance etc.
I am clearly talking about RGB gamma, not just white gamma.

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post #2676 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I'll probably have to do that.



Yeah, right after the autocal (color only), I didn't mess with anything else.



I haven't actually been using that, my screen appears to be pretty color neutral.



Do you mean a custom color profile to account for the spyder errors? If so, yes, otherwise I'm not sure, I was just measuring fc with my Lux meter.



I didn't run a full gamma autocal, but there were no zero's in the log either before or after.



So I didn't have a chance to go remeasure with my i1D3/Calman, what I did was:
Setup a new user memory referencing my new custom 2020NF profile.
Measured fc with my light meter, compared it to my other user memory with a custom 2020F profile
Ran color only autocal on that user memory
Measured fc with my light meter, and noticed a 10% (like I said I didn't actually write down the numbers, shame on me) drop vs pre-autocal for peak white.



Yeah, I was kind of in a hurry, I really just wanted to try out a 2020NF profile to see what a few more nits look like, so I wasn't as thorough as I should have been. But I'd had pretty good luck with autocal (or so I thought) so far when I have double checked with Calman, I figured I could just do a "quick" cal of my new profile/memory.

I probably really should just set aside a couple hours, restore my INIT and just start from scratch.

Maybe I should try and find a used i1 Pro or something.
I was looking to run an Autocal on bt2020nf last week but Manni advised not to as there are potential issues in doing so...I was also looking for increased nits but did not run Autocal as Manni advised against it...

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post #2677 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 12:10 PM
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Manni said above (bold is mine):

Quote:
You can't simply use BT-2020NF and run the color autocal because whatever gamma you have was calculated either with the right gamut but with a filter (reference) or with the wrong gamut but without a filter (standard). There is no reference-NF preset, so we can't run an autocal for BT-2020NF. I need to run some tests and do measurements to see what the best factory color profile should be used to achieve the best possible calibration with BT2020-NF. It's something I ran into a while ago but completely forgot about, and recently Asharma brought it up (see recent posts) and we said he had to wait until I could find the time. So either you have the time to run all the experiments, or you'll have to wait too. At this stage, I can't make any recommendation regarding how to calibrate with BT-2020NF.
I suspect I'm missing something here, as per Posts 9 and 10 in this thread, providing detailed recommendations for JVC Autocalibration, a Color only Autocal was advised for BT2020-NF, following the Gamma+color Autocalibration using a standard Color Profile and 'normal' Gamma (for each combination of lamp, iris, CMD state, etc.).

This seemed to be an established procedure. Is this now being called into question?

I didn't quote Manni in the usual way, as I don't mean to take him away from whatever he's working on, but there are others here who seem to understand these procedures quite well.

Am I missing something fundamental here, or is a change in the basic Autocalibration procedure for the Color Profile aspect of HDR now underway?

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post #2678 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Manni said above (bold is mine):



I suspect I'm missing something here, as per Posts 9 and 10 in this thread, providing detailed recommendations for JVC Autocalibration, a Color only Autocal was advised for BT2020-NF, following the Gamma+color Autocalibration using a standard Color Profile and 'normal' Gamma (for each combination of lamp, iris, CMD state, etc.).

This seemed to be an established procedure. Is this now being called into question?

I didn't quote Manni in the usual way, as I don't mean to take him away from whatever he's working on, but there are others here who seem to understand these procedures quite well.

Am I missing something fundamental here, or is a change in the basic Autocalibration procedure for the Color Profile aspect of HDR now underway?
Thanks for not quoting me, appreciated

The initial recommendation was correct at the time (probably still the best way to use BT2020NF, although I haven't double-checked that) but that doesn't work with the enhanced method provided by Chad initially and adapted for HDR-BT2020 later, because we don't have the equivalent of a reference-nf profile to correct the meter errors and to calibrate gamma with a gamut that is not entirely different. I guess Chad's original method, that interpolates the corrections from the rec-709 measurements could be used, but I'm not making any recommendations because I need to run some tests to define the best procedure and haven't had the time to do so. I'll do it as soon as I can but right now, I don't want to say anything because the last time I looked at BT2020-NF was a long time ago and our best practice recommendations have changed since, at least if you have a better meter than the Spyder to correct its errors.

If you only use the Spyder, the procedure described in posts 9 and 10 is likely the best way, but I can't guarantee it as I haven't revisited it in a long time.

Of course, if anyone has run the measurements with a reference meter and is able and willing to provide some info in the meantime, they are welcome to do so.
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post #2679 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I don't know the answer to your question but it is WAY awesome if we are going to see patterns compatible with the ATV4k. I have the soft copy files and the UDH Disk, and this would help me ensure that my ATK4K is outputting the same signal as the UHD player. Thanks!
Ya, I ordered the package and took some time to download, extract and place in my itunes library on main computer. When I did that, all titles were created in the itunes library but only 64 would show on Apple TV in my library. Was stumped so worked back and forth with Ryan and he finally figured out what was wrong....that is the great news. Bad news is it's a whole rewrite of his pattern files for it to work on ATV4....for the time being I just wanted the Black Clipping and that is what I have now.

Still stumped on why the first few seconds only above 81 flashed grey then for the remainder of the track all above 64 show a bit of grey. Someone on here must have used this same file to dial in bbo so was hoping I could get some input before I do that.
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post #2680 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
First thing to check is the meter. If it has drifted it could be the reason for the brigthness loss. The Spyders have plastic filters so they do drift after a while if you don't keep them in Peli-case with dessicant, which slows down the process but doesn't entirely prevent it.
Is this a fact or educated guess? I have no idea how plastic filters work on Spyders, but is it possible a dessicant can make it worse? My thought is that as plastic ages it dries out and a dessicant should make the air in the case drier, which could accelerate the aging of the plastic filter?

I have no idea, just thinking out loud.

Also, are we sure there's no outgassing of the the dessicant that could also harm the Spyder?

??
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post #2681 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
I suspect I'm missing something here, as per Posts 9 and 10 in this thread, providing detailed recommendations for JVC Autocalibration, a Color only Autocal was advised for BT2020-NF, following the Gamma+color Autocalibration using a standard Color Profile and 'normal' Gamma (for each combination of lamp, iris, CMD state, etc.).

This seemed to be an established procedure. Is this now being called into question?
[EDIT 2018-01-12: I should've probably posted in a different thread, as what I'm describing is a process for improve the colour accuracy of the JVC colour profiles (Rec. 709 or BT.2020) using HCFR (or other calibration programs) based on i1D3 measurements. It is not related to the 3-phase Autocal. The custom profiles are not correcting the Spyder measuring errors, but are correcting the profiles directly. As a matter of fact, it does not involve running gamma or colour calibration or even the Spyder at all; the JVC software is only used for creating and uploading the custom profiles.]

I bought a DLA-x570R (RS420) last week and have confirmed that Autocal fine-tuning works for BT2020NF. Here's what I did, using HCFR and i1D3:
  1. Create a custom profile BT2020NF even though it should be the same as the built-in BT2020 (the projector has no wide gamut filter); upload it to the projector
  2. Measure grey scale
  3. Run saturation sweep for primary colours
  4. Measure the ColorChecker patterns for reference
  5. From the grey scale xy errors, calculate the white point xy for the custom profile BT2020Corr (similar to Chad B's fine-tuning)
  6. From the saturation errors, calculate the xy values for Red and Blue (similar to Chad B's fine-tuning). I did not touch green as it's seriously undersaturated (beyond redemption)
  7. Create the custom profile and upload it to the projector
  8. Remeasure the grey scale, saturation sweeps and ColorChecker patterns.
The process is essentially the same as what I used for Rec709. Note that these steps do not require the Spyder5, when I now only use calibrate the gamma.

Even with just a single attempt, the greyscale dE improved from 3.7/7.5 (Average/Max) to 1.0/2.2. The ColorChecker dE improved from 1.7/4.7 to 1.4/3.5. I should be able to make further improvements with another iteration.
Note that the same improvement to the greyscale dE can also be made using the projector's RGB Gain and Offset controls; I was able to achieve an even lower dE of 0.6/1.1 as the feedback is instantaneous.
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post #2682 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 10:37 PM
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Where can I find Chad B's fine tuning procedures?
Am very innocent on the error calculation things

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post #2683 of 4161 Old 01-11-2018, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post
Where can I find Chad B's fine tuning procedures?
Am very innocent on the error calculation things
See the link in first post of this thread, under “Other Links and FAQ”.a
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post #2684 of 4161 Old 01-12-2018, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I bought a DLA-x570R (RS420) last week and have confirmed that Autocal fine-tuning works for BT2020NF. Here's what I did, using HCFR and i1D3:
  1. Create a custom profile BT2020NF even though it should be the same as the built-in BT2020 (the projector has no wide gamut filter); upload it to the projector
  2. Measure grey scale
  3. Run saturation sweep for primary colours
  4. Measure the ColorChecker patterns for reference
  5. From the grey scale xy errors, calculate the white point xy for the custom profile BT2020Corr (similar to Chad B's fine-tuning)
  6. From the saturation errors, calculate the xy values for Red and Blue (similar to Chad B's fine-tuning). I did not touch green as it's seriously undersaturated (beyond redemption)
  7. Create the custom profile and upload it to the projector
  8. Remeasure the grey scale, saturation sweeps and ColorChecker patterns.
The process is essentially the same as what I used for Rec709. Note that these steps do not require the Spyder5, when I now only use calibrate the gamma.

Even with just a single attempt, the greyscale dE improved from 3.7/7.5 (Average/Max) to 1.0/2.2. The ColorChecker dE improved from 1.7/4.7 to 1.4/3.5. I should be able to make further improvements with another iteration.
Note that the same improvement to the greyscale dE can also be made using the projector's RGB Gain and Offset controls; I was able to achieve an even lower dE of 0.6/1.1 as the feedback is instantaneous.
Thanks Dom...sorry, a lot of your explanation I don’t understand as you are far more advanced than I am...on my x950,
before I run phase 3 Autocal for Manni’s BT2020NF color profile (trying to optimize hdr brightness) would phase 1 just be run using non reference color profiles that don’t use the filter? ie. Cinema or Natural NOT Reference, given the BT2020NF doesn’t use a filter? Just looking for your opinion Sir...thanks

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post #2685 of 4161 Old 01-12-2018, 04:59 AM
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I get error making color calibration - it runs through the calibration but shows no result just error message.
And cant find the reason. Where to look?

Some elements in JVC page 6 (v9 1.1 on a spyder5 on x5500) manual i dont understand:

"After turning on the power of the projector, set to picture mode for calibration" ?

And

"calibration does not work when Color Profile have been set to Off or X.v.color" ?

On my pc running 4k60Hz i can only select rgb 8bit depth- no 10/12 bit is possible - is that good enough?
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post #2686 of 4161 Old 01-12-2018, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Thanks Dom...sorry, a lot of your explanation I don’t understand as you are far more advanced than I am...on my x950,
before I run phase 3 Autocal for Manni’s BT2020NF color profile (trying to optimize hdr brightness) would phase 1 just be run using non reference color profiles that don’t use the filter? ie. Cinema or Natural NOT Reference, given the BT2020NF doesn’t use a filter? Just looking for your opinion Sir...thanks
I should've probably posed in a different thread, as what I described is simply a process for improve the colour accuracy of the JVC colour profiles (Rec. 709 or BT.2020) using HCFR (or other calibration programs) based on i1D3 measurements.

It is not related to the 3-phase Autocal. As a matter of fact, it does not even involve running gamma or colour calibration; the JVC software was only used for creating and uploading the custom profiles.

In my particular case, the original grey scale shows an excess blue and red, so the custom profile has negligible effect on the luminance (it remained at 138 nits).
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post #2687 of 4161 Old 01-14-2018, 10:33 AM
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Hi Guys,

I hope all are well. I am attempting to download some of the custom curves posted as well as utilize the Spyder I purchased to run Auto Cal. I am having a MAJOR problem getting my Ethernet connection from my laptop to my 620 to communicate. I have tried 2 laptops and keep getting “IP Address configuration error”. Can I cannot via an RS-232 to accomplish this, similar to a software update procedure? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you!

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post #2688 of 4161 Old 01-14-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KASOFO View Post
Hi Guys,

I hope all are well. I am attempting to download some of the custom curves posted as well as utilize the Spyder I purchased to run Auto Cal. I am having a MAJOR problem getting my Ethernet connection from my laptop to my 620 to communicate. I have tried 2 laptops and keep getting “IP Address configuration error”. Can I cannot via an RS-232 to accomplish this, similar to a software update procedure? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you!

Keith
You have to look at what the IP address is for the projector in the projector settings. Then on your PC type it in under in the gear button on in the JVC software, then click connect. Did you do that?
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post #2689 of 4161 Old 01-15-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by KASOFO View Post
Hi Guys,

I hope all are well. I am attempting to download some of the custom curves posted as well as utilize the Spyder I purchased to run Auto Cal. I am having a MAJOR problem getting my Ethernet connection from my laptop to my 620 to communicate. I have tried 2 laptops and keep getting “IP Address configuration error”. Can I cannot via an RS-232 to accomplish this, similar to a software update procedure? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you!

Keith
Maybe you wanna try connect the projector and the PC through a router.
I have problem using direct PC-projector connection but once using the router, everything works.

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post #2690 of 4161 Old 01-16-2018, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
You have to look at what the IP address is for the projector in the projector settings. Then on your PC type it in under in the gear button on in the JVC software, then click connect. Did you do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KASOFO View Post
Hi Guys,

I hope all are well. I am attempting to download some of the custom curves posted as well as utilize the Spyder I purchased to run Auto Cal. I am having a MAJOR problem getting my Ethernet connection from my laptop to my 620 to communicate. I have tried 2 laptops and keep getting “IP Address configuration error”. Can I cannot via an RS-232 to accomplish this, similar to a software update procedure? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you!

Keith
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpyw View Post
Maybe you wanna try connect the projector and the PC through a router.
I have problem using direct PC-projector connection but once using the router, everything works.
I tried multiple times to put the projector IP address in but to no avail. I will have to get a SUPER long Ethernet cable to run to my router as it is in another level of my home. Hope that works!

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post #2691 of 4161 Old 01-16-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KASOFO View Post
I tried multiple times to put the projector IP address in but to no avail. I will have to get a SUPER long Ethernet cable to run to my router as it is in another level of my home. Hope that works!
can just buy a small 5 ports switch like this https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Ether.../dp/B000FNFSPY for @$12 or just use any old switch or ADSL modem lying around and change them to router mode to connect just the PC and JVC.

I use my old ADSL modem for the purpose and it work.

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post #2692 of 4161 Old 01-16-2018, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KASOFO View Post
I tried multiple times to put the projector IP address in but to no avail. I will have to get a SUPER long Ethernet cable to run to my router as it is in another level of my home. Hope that works!
Once you connect your projector to your router with an Ethernet cable, it will work. You could move the router to the theater room for an hour.

If it helps, made a guide for importing premade curves here. The steps should very similar for you (Steps 4-7 should work for you, perhaps a minor difference in the software layout).

Let us know how it goes!
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post #2693 of 4161 Old 01-16-2018, 09:00 PM
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@KASOFO

or maybe you can try this? refer below link

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55041362

I have problem connect my RS400 to the network recently, after follow this advise, it works like a charm

Last edited by WereWolf84; 01-16-2018 at 09:09 PM.
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post #2694 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 05:03 AM
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I just bought a used X550r and I am a little confused about calibration? I have Calman 5 and an i1 Display Pro Colorimeter along with a Lumagen Radiance 2144 which I usually use to auto calibrate the grayscale and 3d Lut. I assume I will use one of the HDMI inputs for the Lumagen and that I can just calibrate as I usually do for HD? The second input I will go right to my Oppo UDP-203 for 4k content, is there anything I can or should do with Calman and the i1 or should I just upload the 2020 profile plus one of the gamma curves that are posted here?
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post #2695 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 09:28 AM
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Calibration Confusion

Hi


Confused on a few things. Reading thru all the posts the Spyder is very accurate, but its the only thing u can use to auto cal. So what I would like to know, if I want to get a good cal. done would I buy the Spyder do the auto. Then what would I need to make this a better cal. Both software and color meter that isn't going to break the bank


Thanks I hope this made sense
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post #2696 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 09:42 AM
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Yes, ideal workflow:

1. Spyder + Autocal = gets close (usually)
2. other meter + other calibration software = fine tune step one.
3. arve tool, to create custom HDR gamma
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post #2697 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Yes, ideal workflow:

1. Spyder + Autocal = gets close (usually)
2. other meter + other calibration software = fine tune step one.
3. arve tool, to create custom HDR gamma
I was thinking i1Pro or something along that line What software would u suggest
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post #2698 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 10:05 AM
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I am not an expert in what the best bang for the buck or easiest or most accurate tools are. Personally I use a ColorMunki + HCFR because that is what I already had on hand.

If I was to start from scratch, I'd probably buy a Calman package.

But I am far from an expert in what is easiest or best or the best value.
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post #2699 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
@KASOFO

or maybe you can try this? refer below link

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post55041362

I have problem connect my RS400 to the network recently, after follow this advise, it works like a charm
I will give it a try! Much appreciated for the suggestion.

Keith

Marantz 8802A Processor, Wyred4Sound SX-1000R MonoblocksX3, Emotiva XPA -7 Gen 3
Oppo 205 Ultra HD/Blu-Ray Player, JVC-DLA RS620U Projector, Dark Energy 127-Inch ALR Screen
Tekton Ulfberht’s Mains,Tekton Ulfberht Center, Def-Tech SR8080-BP Surrounds (4)
Seaton Submersive F2+ and F2 Slave and Two Seaton F18+'s
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post #2700 of 4161 Old 01-17-2018, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Once you connect your projector to your router with an Ethernet cable, it will work. You could move the router to the theater room for an hour.

If it helps, made a guide for importing premade curves here. The steps should very similar for you (Steps 4-7 should work for you, perhaps a minor difference in the software layout).

Let us know how it goes!

I will definately update you with the results and I super appreciate you taking the time to respond. Thanks again!

Keith

Marantz 8802A Processor, Wyred4Sound SX-1000R MonoblocksX3, Emotiva XPA -7 Gen 3
Oppo 205 Ultra HD/Blu-Ray Player, JVC-DLA RS620U Projector, Dark Energy 127-Inch ALR Screen
Tekton Ulfberht’s Mains,Tekton Ulfberht Center, Def-Tech SR8080-BP Surrounds (4)
Seaton Submersive F2+ and F2 Slave and Two Seaton F18+'s
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