JVC Calibration Software V6 For 2015 Models (X9000,X7000,X5000,RS400,RS500,RS600) - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2851 of 4211 Old 02-01-2018, 05:55 PM
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Hi guys , i just have 2 questions plz:

1- regarding BT2020, should i use it on my RS440 for HDR with the custom curves i have or should i stick with HDR color profile, i m asking since my PJ doesnt have a filter and my understanding is that BT2020 uses the filter.
2- would calibrating SDR for multiple iris points overwrite the previous calibrated iris level? Or i can calibrate 0 to -15 and have them all accurate at the same time so i can chose any level i desire and it would be accurate?

Any input would help a lot thanks .

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post #2852 of 4211 Old 02-01-2018, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Hi guys , i just have 2 questions plz:

1- regarding BT2020, should i use it on my RS440 for HDR with the custom curves i have or should i stick with HDR color profile, i m asking since my PJ doesnt have a filter and my understanding is that BT2020 uses the filter.
If your projector has the HDR profile then use it. (My RS420 has a profile labelled BT.2020 but of course it cannot reach the gamut boundaries).

Quote:
2- would calibrating SDR for multiple iris points overwrite the previous calibrated iris level? Or i can calibrate 0 to -15 and have them all accurate at the same time so i can chose any level i desire and it would be accurate?
There are 4 ranges for the iris points. Within each range, calibrating one would overwrite the previous calibration; e.g., if you calibrate at -15 and then at -13, the second calibration would overwrite the first one. I don't remember exactly where the range boundaries are, but Manni recommended using 0, -5, -10, -15 to cover all ranges.

Also, that's only for colour. I don't believe you can save separate, independent gamma calibration.
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post #2853 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If your projector has the HDR profile then use it. (My RS420 has a profile labelled BT.2020 but of course it cannot reach the gamut boundaries).



There are 4 ranges for the iris points. Within each range, calibrating one would overwrite the previous calibration; e.g., if you calibrate at -15 and then at -13, the second calibration would overwrite the first one. I don't remember exactly where the range boundaries are, but Manni recommended using 0, -5, -10, -15 to cover all ranges.

Also, that's only for colour. I don't believe you can save separate, independent gamma calibration.
Thanks dominic for the quick reaponse.
So if i understood u correctly, i need to save each iris range calibration under different profile and to cover it all for different viewing i need 4 profiles saved.

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post #2854 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Thanks dominic for the quick reaponse.
So if i understood u correctly, i need to save each iris range calibration under different profile and to cover it all for different viewing i need 4 profiles saved.
I normally fine-tune the RGB Gain Controls for each range, in which case four different Colour Temperature settings are required.

If you’re only using AutoCal you don’t need to save different profiles. The projector itself applies the appropriate correction based on the iris setting.
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post #2855 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 08:32 AM
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I need to get a quick and dirty calibration in order to present an acceptable Xfinity cable broadcast of Sunday’s football game.

I was just told I am hosting a small super bowl party Sunday and after switching out my Lumagen 2020 for a Pro 4242 my calibration is out of whack.

I had installed the JVC Auto-Cal v7 after upgrading to the u83.2 in order to upload bt.2020 and decided to give the JVC Auto-Cal a go and purchased a Syder5.

My thought was to get a baseline calibration with the JVC and then run the ChromaPure 3.x Auto-Calibrate, i1 Display 3 Pro with the Lumagen if I have time. I do have a day job and most of Saturday will be cleaning the house.

Last night I ran a JVC auto-Cal and I was not happy with the results. It is too bright and lettering on broadcasts shows artifacts. I read in the first post running environment and 100-inch screen can cause the brightness.

I used Cinema, 6500, and manual iris.

Any quick suggestions on how I can improve in my next auto-Cal run? This is a stop gap, even for cable TV, and I will attempt to dial it in add take on HDR at a later date.

Thanks.
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post #2856 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post
running environment and 100-inch screen
You may want to clarify this. Did you manually choose the JVC adjustments related to screen type, room, etc? Most calibrators leave those as default/zero adjustment, and just use the AutoCal + Spyder to get in the ballpark.

(Adjustments impacted by the screen or room can be made in the next step, which is to use a second better meter pointed at the screen and a traditional calibration program.)
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post #2857 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
You may want to clarify this. Did you manually choose the JVC adjustments related to screen type, room, etc? Most calibrators leave those as default/zero adjustment, and just use the AutoCal + Spyder to get in the ballpark.

(Adjustments impacted by the screen or room can be made in the next step, which is to use a second better meter pointed at the screen and a traditional calibration program.)
I ran the environment process before running the calibration. It has you place the meter just outside the screen and then again just inside the screen.

I assume it saves the results and takes them into account when running the auto-Cal.

Thanks
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post #2858 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 05:20 PM
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I think most folks skip that step from what I have seen. I’m sure others will chime in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
I think most folks skip that step from what I have seen. I’m sure others will chime in.
I've never done it myself.
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post #2860 of 4211 Old 02-02-2018, 05:34 PM
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Me neither

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #2861 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
Thanks dominic for the quick reaponse.
So if i understood u correctly, i need to save each iris range calibration under different profile and to cover it all for different viewing i need 4 profiles saved.
No, same profile but just change the iris to the four range positions and do a color only cal for each position.

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post #2862 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I normally fine-tune the RGB Gain Controls for each range, in which case four different Colour Temperature settings are required.

If you’re only using AutoCal you don’t need to save different profiles. The projector itself applies the appropriate correction based on the iris setting.
That clarifies it, i did calibrate 4 iris range, but did fine tuning on iris-10 with chromapure/i1d3 , the gamma was almost spot on, but had to do RGB and color tuning and it looks stunning for SDR and still plenty bright with lamp low and iris -10.

do u have any suggestion on HDR fine tuning with chromapure after using custom curves, i m experienced with SDR calibration but HDR is still a little confusing to me .

Thanks for ur advice domininc

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post #2863 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawsondl View Post
No, same profile but just change the iris to the four range positions and do a color only cal for each position.
yeah i got it now , unless i wanna fine tune with chromapure/i1d3 for a specific iris position i can save them all to same profile. thanks

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post #2864 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
do u have any suggestion on HDR fine tuning with chromapure after using custom curves, i m experienced with SDR calibration but HDR is still a little confusing to me .
Sorry but I use HCFR; not familiar the ChromaPure.
HDR for the RSIx00 projectors is broken; you will need to have custom curves and means of preventing the projector from switching back to Gamma D. Most people use HD Fury Linker, although Oppo has become quite popular recently.
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post #2865 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Sorry but I use HCFR; not familiar the ChromaPure.
HDR for the RSIx00 projectors is broken; you will need to have custom curves and means of preventing the projector from switching back to Gamma D. Most people use HD Fury Linker, although Oppo has become quite popular recently.
i have the RS440, so it auto switch to HDR and i have custom curves installed, i m just wondering if its possible to fine tune HDR after installing the curves, or should i just leave it the way it is.

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post #2866 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i have the RS440, so it auto switch to HDR and i have custom curves installed, i m just wondering if its possible to fine tune HDR after installing the curves, or should i just leave it the way it is.
If you're using custom curves, it would mean that the "Correction Value" is set to Import, in which case all the adjustments (Picture Tone, Dark Level, Bright Level) are disabled. To fine tune them you will have to use the JVC 12-point gamma adjustments (or Arve's Tool), which essentially is creating a new custom curve.
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post #2867 of 4211 Old 02-03-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
If you're using custom curves, it would mean that the "Correction Value" is set to Import, in which case all the adjustments (Picture Tone, Dark Level, Bright Level) are disabled. To fine tune them you will have to use the JVC 12-point gamma adjustments (or Arve's Tool), which essentially is creating a new custom curve.
Thanks alot dominic, uve been very helpful, custom curves are a big improvement over default, but using default and adjusting picture tone and dark/white level is giving me a very nice and bright HDR pic even with lamp on low, not sure how accurate it is but as long as it looks good to me i guess lol.
thanks for giving the time to help.
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post #2868 of 4211 Old 02-06-2018, 03:27 PM
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Is the LED on the back of the Spyder5 supposed to light up when the meter is in the correct position?

I am able to move the meter back and forth, including a position very similar to the screen capture example below, but I never seem to get the LED to light unless it isn't very bright and I can't see it through the projector's light.

Thanks,



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Spankenstein View Post



I am trying to keep a good attitude, but these questions have all been answered and explained within the first few posts of this thread.


It is summed up very well (and with pretty pictures ) in the Cine4Home review of the autocal software (not surprisingly, linked in the first post of this thread). But since it presents such a challenge for folks to do any manner of detailed research on their own, I'll provide the Cliff's Notes version.


You will roughly center the shadow of the meter on your screen/projection surface, while also making the meter (as shown in the JVC software close to the RIGHT SIDE of the target box.






Further to this, you will also want to ensure you meter's sensor is set up parallel to the light path by making it's reflection (should be a bright, circular spot) sit directly above or below (not directly back into) the PJ lens.
For maximum accuracy, you will want to move your meter so that both these above situations exist BEFORE EVERY RUN.


Many times folks are making the adjustments via the Picure Mode Settings screen, which immediately follows the above screen and precedes the below screen.

I think this is a poor idea because most changes that are made would have an impact on brightness (in some form or another) and would thus would change the location of the meter within the target box (as shown above). Sure there is always the option to use the "back" arrow to verify and readjust, but with the impatience that abounds, I'm not sure anyone would be that vigilant.



My preference is to set these via the PJ menu PRIOR to starting a run:




To ensure you are not missing any crucial components of the calibration run, be sure to look at the data that is presented at the beginning of the process:
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post #2869 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 06:29 AM
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The curves that are contained in vertex macro pack are low res? So if i use avre's tool, i will in fact generate a hi res curve? right?
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post #2870 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 06:39 AM
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Rec 709 and autocal

Folks, could some one please confirm this process for me...last night I ran Autocal for my bt2020 sources...I’m using the Oppo hdr-> sdr tone mapping but I don’t think that is relevant...here were the steps:

1) choose User 1 user mode. renamed to Oppo 4K
2) set colour profile to reference
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run gamma+color, save
6) set colour profile to bt2020, cmd low, left iris at 0 as I want max brightness, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

I now want to run an autocal for rec 709 sources. Would these be the steps?

1) choose User mode 2. Rename to Oppo Rec 709
2) set colour profile to standard
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run color + gamma, save
6) set iris to -7, cmd low, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

My question is for the rec 709 calibration do I have to run the gamma calibration again since I just did it for bt2020 or do I just need to run the color only calibration for rec 709 or do I need to do all 8 steps again for rec 709? Thanks folks

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post #2871 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Folks, could some one please confirm this process for me...last night I ran Autocal for my bt2020 sources...I’m using the Oppo hdr-> sdr tone mapping but I don’t think that is relevant...here were the steps:

1) choose User 1 user mode. renamed to Oppo 4K
2) set colour profile to reference
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run gamma+color, save
6) set colour profile to bt2020, cmd low, left iris at 0 as I want max brightness, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

I now want to run an autocal for rec 709 sources. Would these be the steps?

1) choose User mode 2. Rename to Oppo Rec 709
2) set colour profile to standard
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run color + gamma, save
6) set iris to -7, cmd low, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

My question is for the rec 709 calibration do I have to run the gamma calibration again since I just did it for bt2020 or do I just need to run the color only calibration for rec 709 or do I need to do all 8 steps again for rec 709? Thanks folks
Yes, you should run gamma again since you are now using the "filter" and in rec 709 you are not
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post #2872 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Yes, you should run gamma again since you are now using the "filter" and in rec 709 you are not
Thanks, so rerunning Gamma is specific to each User profile and won’t effect the gamma and or Autocal in a different user profile when re-run?

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post #2873 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Yes, you should run gamma again since you are now using the "filter" and in rec 709 you are not
My understanding is that there is only one "set" of gamma calibration. For different combinations of CMD, Iris, Filter etc it's only colour that needs to be calibrated.
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post #2874 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Thanks, so rerunning Gamma is specific to each User profile and won’t effect the gamma and or Autocal in a different user profile when re-run?
Gamma, in this case, is specific to the use of lamp (high and low) and filter (on and off), so you only have to worry about rerunning it if you change any of these parameters

Just saw what Dominic said, so you should follow his advice (he knows this stuff better than most). I guess I have to re-aquaint myself with autocal procedures.

Last edited by atabea; 02-07-2018 at 07:28 AM.
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post #2875 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
My understanding is that there is only one "set" of gamma calibration. For different combinations of CMD, Iris, Filter etc it's only colour that needs to be calibrated.
Thanks Dominic, so given I have already run my bt2020 calibration, for my rec 709 autocal would I simply skip steps 4 and 5 below?


I now want to run an autocal for rec 709 sources. Would these be the steps?

1) choose User mode 2. Rename to Oppo Rec 709
2) set colour profile to standard
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run color + gamma, save
6) set iris to -7, cmd low, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

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post #2876 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
Gamma, in this case, is specific to the use of lamp (high and low) and filter (on and off), so you only have to worry about rerunning it if you change any of these parameters

Just saw what Dominic said, so you should follow his advice (he knows this stuff better than most). I guess I have to re-aquaint myself with autocal procedures.
Thanks, seems to conflict with Doms response above

Edit: ok, just saw your edit...thanks man

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post #2877 of 4211 Old 02-07-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asharma View Post
Folks, could some one please confirm this process for me...last night I ran Autocal for my bt2020 sources...I’m using the Oppo hdr-> sdr tone mapping but I don’t think that is relevant...here were the steps:

1) choose User 1 user mode. renamed to Oppo 4K
2) set colour profile to reference
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run gamma+color, save
6) set colour profile to bt2020, cmd low, left iris at 0 as I want max brightness, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

I now want to run an autocal for rec 709 sources. Would these be the steps?

1) choose User mode 2. Rename to Oppo Rec 709
2) set colour profile to standard
3) gamma normal
4) cmd off, iris manual 0, low lamp
5) run color + gamma, save
6) set iris to -7, cmd low, low lamp
7) run color only, save
8) switch to gamma 2.4, enjoy the movies!

My question is for the rec 709 calibration do I have to run the gamma calibration again since I just did it for bt2020 or do I just need to run the color only calibration for rec 709 or do I need to do all 8 steps again for rec 709? Thanks folks
@Manni01 - hey Manni, sorry getting some conflicting advice...my gut tells me I wouldn’t run gamma again (ie skip steps 4 and 5 in the 709 process)...the reason I feel this way is isn’t there only 1 universal base gamma and I would have just ran it for my bt2020 autocal? If I did run gamma again, would it not just replace the one I just ran for bt2020 or is the gamma specific to each user profile? Your thoughts are appreciated...thanks

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post #2878 of 4211 Old 02-08-2018, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tanwn1 View Post
The curves that are contained in vertex macro pack are low res? So if i use avre's tool, i will in fact generate a hi res curve? right?
Doesn't matter. Same curve.

Whether you define the curve by 20 points or 200 points, it does not result in visible changes.

The advantage of a low res curve is that it is easier to export and import, using the official JVC interface.
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post #2879 of 4211 Old 02-08-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Doesn't matter. Same curve.

Whether you define the curve by 20 points or 200 points, it does not result in visible changes.

The advantage of a low res curve is that it is easier to export and import, using the official JVC interface.
In principle there are some differences, but I'm not sure if they matter in practice. In particular, the lo-res curves exclude the 0% and 100% control points, so one cannot define the behaviour below 5%.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 02-08-2018 at 07:58 AM.
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post #2880 of 4211 Old 02-08-2018, 08:13 AM
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Fair enough. That's an accurate correction to my generalization.

That said, it's not a brick wall but a slope, so unless one wants to significantly change the slope in that last bit above black, which @Manni doesn't, it shouldn't make a visible difference, imo.

Further opinion, if one is worried about this level of detail, downloading any curve off the internet is not the route. Rather, building a curve locally with measurement tools, in one's own setup, is necessary -- again imo.
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