Sony SXRD Degradation Thread - Effects All Current Sony SXRD 1080p/4K Panels - Page 65 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1921 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
If there is no fix for a prominently advertised feature then I shouldn't have to sell it at a loss. JVC should buy it back.
JVC HQ is located in NJ, perhaps contact their executive team with your concerns. It would be more effective than a forum thread.

http://www.jvc.com/company/index.jsp?pageID=6

Sony should have bought back my $25,000 VW1100 with a major defect that affected all viewing modes but that was not an option. I sold it at higher loss than you paid for your JVC. The longer you wait, the larger the loss will be for the resale. resale of a current model should be minimal if you got it during the pre-order deal.
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post #1922 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The reality is this - if you bought an expensive car that lost more than 1/2 it's horsepower in a short period of time and they didn't fix it, how quickly would you be to trust that they fixed the issue for the next years model if they didn't admit the issue to begin with.

This reminds me why I am so glad I never bought a Volkswagen.

What if you paid for all that horsepower, only to have it recalled and half of that horsepower taken away!



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post #1923 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
If there is no fix for a prominently advertised feature then I shouldn't have to sell it at a loss. JVC should buy it back.

And before anyone goes down the path of I should have known better I'm not sure how much more research I'm supposed to do.

As Kris pointed out external factors can affect it even being discussed in professional reviews.

Ive posted more in the last two days about then has ever been posted before in any forum I can find.

And my discussions with my sales rep prior to purchase were about near nothing else but the need for good FI.

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Sometimes it pays to buy the last model, on discount, with all the bugs worked out of it over a year or two. When you buy a brand new model, sometimes ( unfortunately ) there can be a few software bugs to work out. I'll give you the Oppo 203 as an example. But just like the Oppo, I'm sure someone is working on an improved firmware update.
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post #1924 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 05:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Sometimes it pays to buy the last model, on discount, with all the bugs worked out of it over a year or two. When you buy a brand new model, sometimes ( unfortunately ) there can be a few software bugs to work out. I'll give you the Oppo 203 as an example. But just like the Oppo, I'm sure someone is working on an improved firmware update.
If JVC patches it via firmware it's not a problem.

If they say wait until next year's model I will taste the blood of their children and their children's children....

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post #1925 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
Indeed... not brightness matching when comparing projectors is like not volume matching when comparing speakers.
From a more practical point of view, setting up a projector to be a certain number of lumens, based on the size screen you have, and between 16 - 18 foot lamberts ( which is what most people watch at ), is something I've done with every projector I've owned, since I bought my light meter. Over 18 FL and my wife complains it's too bright. Under 16FL's and I start to wonder if I'm getting cataracts. And when I've had two projectors, I want them to look as close to one another as possible, so I can switch back and forth, and there isn't a jarring difference.
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post #1926 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
From a more practical point of view, setting up a projector to be a certain number of lumens, based on the size screen you have, and between 16 - 18 foot lamberts ( which is what most people watch at ), is something I've done with every projector I've owned, since I bought my light meter. Over 18 FL and my wife complains it's too bright. Under 16FL's and I start to wonder if I'm getting cataracts. And when I've had two projectors, I want them to look as close to one another as possible, so I can switch back and forth, and there isn't a jarring difference.
Just in , AVSForum posted top story today:


Sony 4K TGD Laser Projector Cinemacon2017


This is what the "professional" reviewer wrote .


That said, SXRD is not a unanimous victor in every respect. For example, there is a phenomenon described as “SXRD panel degradation.” If an SXRD projector is located in a humid environment and used infrequently, the contrast can decrease over time. However, the problem disappears if a projector is operated regularly and frequently. Therefore, this issue can be easily prevented by ensuring that the projector does not remain unused for prolonged periods in a humid environment.

























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post #1927 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
From a more practical point of view, setting up a projector to be a certain number of lumens, based on the size screen you have, and between 16 - 18 foot lamberts ( which is what most people watch at ), is something I've done with every projector I've owned, since I bought my light meter. Over 18 FL and my wife complains it's too bright. Under 16FL's and I start to wonder if I'm getting cataracts. And when I've had two projectors, I want them to look as close to one another as possible, so I can switch back and forth, and there isn't a jarring difference.

My a/b testing when set up looks identical switching back and forth. I must have brightness matched by mistake I guess. As I recall saying, I set up each projector to the best of my ability using all the strengths and features available to derive the best image for my tastes in my theater room. Would anyone setting up in this way not naturally arrive at the same brightness level ? I don't force a brightness match, it would appear it happens naturally I guess .

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post #1928 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 07:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Just in , AVSForum posted top story today:


Sony 4K TGD Laser Projector Cinemacon2017


This is what the "professional" reviewer wrote .


That said, SXRD is not a unanimous victor in every respect. For example, there is a phenomenon described as “SXRD panel degradation.” If an SXRD projector is located in a humid environment and used infrequently, the contrast can decrease over time. However, the problem disappears if a projector is operated regularly and frequently. Therefore, this issue can be easily prevented by ensuring that the projector does not remain unused for prolonged periods in a humid environment.

























I'm actually shocked to see such a comment out in the open.

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post #1929 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let's stop trying to normalize this issue. That guy's nonchalant attitude that it's okay as long you're using it where the air is dry enough deemed to be unhealthy by most doctors, aka below 30%, is not something we should condone or have to deal with for a $10,000+ piece of hardware. I'm pretty sure your savior Ekki already told us usage has no bearing on the issue. He said it's time and time alone with humidity on the unit that will cause degradation. So what is it Roxie...heat or humidity?
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post #1930 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 07:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Let's stop trying to normalize this issue. That guy's nonchalant attitude that it's okay as long you're using it where the air is dry enough to deemed unhealthy by most doctors, aka below 30%, is not something we should condone or have to do for a $10,000+ piece of hardware. So what is it Roxie...heat or humidity?
Not sure what you mean. Hand waving away defects because they don't directly impact the hand waver never happens around here.

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post #1931 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
This reminds me why I am so glad I never bought a Volkswagen.

What if you paid for all that horsepower, only to have it recalled and half of that horsepower taken away!



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So many car analogies , might as well chime in.


I bought a $75000 Toyota Limited edition van and Audi TT coupe $60,000 same time. Both were lemons, spent the majority of their time in the garage
and sold both before they reached 50,000 kilometers. Both in warranty and both less than two years old . I had to bail on both, the downtime and repairs
more than the payments.


My neighbor meanwhile was still driving ( proudly I might add) a Hyundai Pony that had just surpassed 400,000 kilometers and I believe he paid a little over
5 grand for it back in the mid nineties . He rolled it over in a sleet storm one early morning, I'm sure it would be still going today if he hadn't done this .


There is no guarantee that a big company is going to take care of their product when all goes bad and it seems some times the level of disconnect and arrogance is directly proportional to higher prices . Most of them are like it, unfortunately and that is very sad.


I'm driving a Toyota Tacoma my personal vehicle , it ticked all the right boxes, great for my lifestyle and off road . I could have turned my back on Toyota easy enough , I had to let it go and move on in order to get the best option for me.

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post #1932 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I'm actually shocked to see such a comment out in the open.

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is this a fact from sony or just the reviewer commenting on what the suspected issue is based on what forums like this and others are saying. As an owner of the 1st gen 4k units, understanding this comment possibly might help us get some type of recourse with sony if this is based on information from sony
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post #1933 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 08:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Oilmanmojo View Post
is this a fact from sony or just the reviewer commenting on what the suspected issue is based on what forums like this and others are saying. As an owner of the 1st gen 4k units, understanding this comment possibly might help us get some type of recourse with sony if this is based on information from sony
It does seem like a bit of a throw away comment. I wonder if the author realizes how such a casual comment may come across to those that want answers.

I had a low end Sony that didn't degrade at all before I sold it. I used it heavily (5 hours a day on average) but my humidity is probably in the 50% range so I don't know if that qualifies for the usage pattern they describe.

I'm not convinced this article presents any sort of real closure to this issue.

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post #1934 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Let's stop trying to normalize this issue. That guy's nonchalant attitude that it's okay as long you're using it where the air is dry enough deemed to be unhealthy by most doctors, aka below 30%, is not something we should condone or have to deal with for a $10,000+ piece of hardware. I'm pretty sure your savior Ekki already told us usage has no bearing on the issue. He said it's time and time alone with humidity on the unit that will cause degradation. So what is it Roxie...heat or humidity?

I never posted to agree with the guy, I don't. It's about the supposed "professional" reviewer. I've read a lot posted by reviewers that is wrong, this is just
another bad example and the point I was making.


But heat and moisture are the biggest concerns no doubt about it . When a 25 year veteran technician of Sony whos job it is to maintain and fix these units tells me heat is the number one killer , I tend to believe him. Is it heat , is it moisture , a combination or something else ? Nothing is written in stone but if I or anyone else with some common sense and experience in life were to make a wager, it would be on the heat .


I controlled the variables for my VW500 in terms of moisture and heat, look at the positive results that yielded . A little common sense approach to prevention will help prevent and or mitigate further issues for earlier models and that's the message we need to get to those who have models with the varying layers of protection added .


What ccool96 shared with us is the most reasonable and logical statement of events and action Sony has implemented to date. The models affected and layers of protection fit perfectly with the randomness, the levels and causes/theories suggested .


Its the very reason some escaped with little or no loss others to a larger degree and others in between . It explains why the levels were decreasing towards the newer more current models.


I truly believe the issue has been dealt with and that is great news moving forward . For those who had to loose money on a sale it is no consolation . All we can do now is continue with the pressure and let Sony executives know this is wrong.


Then again my JVC RS600 is down to 50% original value in 6 months as that is the most I have been offered, so it stays where it is. My Sony VW500 sold for 1/3 the original value three years in and that projector had good contrast. After 5 years I'm not sure what any projector is worth anyway and by that time technology is certainly beyond the capability of the projector. It's just the way it is .

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We will see if this turns out to be true. Contrary to the belief of several people, I really do wish that Sony has fixed the issue completely. I want more competition with JVC and this issue was the the one thing I think many people saw as a reason not to go with a Sony and therefore didn't see it as competition because it was something they didn't even consider buying because of it. I've said many times the 665ES threw an incredible image. Definitely in the top 5 of all units I've personally seen. But the looming issue of degradation caste a permanent shadow over keeping it. If they can fix the only other major issue I have with them (banding and posterization) you will immediately see my attitude towards Sony projectors change. While they don't have the on/off contrast a JVC might have, the cumulative performance of these Sony 4K models (without the issues I've just mentioned) is quite excellent and does have strengths over the eshift JVCs. I do agree the images from the Sony 4K units appear to be a little more natural looking. I'd say they appear more "analog", if you will, compared to the JVCs. I've seen a few people take my words and twist them a bit. Some people thought I was referring to JVCs issue with high luminance flicker as the reason why I think JVCs look less natural. That isn't the case. I just mean there's more of an effortless "look" to a Sony 4K's image that I find appealing. It's more akin to what a good high end DLP projector looks like. I also think Sony projectors handle motion ever so slightly better. Both in terms of pulldown cadence (faithful panning reproduction) and with smearing of motion (mostly due to panel response time). They typically have more ANSI contrast too, which can show some benefit with extremely high APL content in the right room on the right screen material. All in all, without the issues I've just mentioned, Sony projectors are appealing, but again, they need to address these issues before they can get my personal seal of approval. I think that's also the case for several others here on the forum who take the same stance as I do. Once that happens, I think the choppy waters that this forum seems to float on will calm down and we can all (mostly) live in harmony.
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post #1936 of 2177 Old 03-30-2017, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Just in , AVSForum posted top story today:


Sony 4K TGD Laser Projector Cinemacon2017


This is what the "professional" reviewer wrote .


That said, SXRD is not a unanimous victor in every respect. For example, there is a phenomenon described as “SXRD panel degradation.” If an SXRD projector is located in a humid environment and used infrequently, the contrast can decrease over time. However, the problem disappears if a projector is operated regularly and frequently. Therefore, this issue can be easily prevented by ensuring that the projector does not remain unused for prolonged periods in a humid environment.


Bollocks. I put 1300 hours on my unit in less than a year and still had the issue. Used it every day. Sometimes up to six hours.
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post #1937 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
...snip...

Then again my JVC RS600 is down to 50% original value in 6 months as that is the most I have been offered, so it stays where it is. My Sony VW500 sold for 1/3 the original value three years in and that projector had good contrast. After 5 years I'm not sure what any projector is worth anyway and by that time technology is certainly beyond the capability of the projector. It's just the way it is .
Huh?

Aren't the RS-600's still selling for almost the same price as they were a year ago, maybe $500 to $1000 less per used than new, but that sounds normal to me...

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post #1938 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Bollocks. I put 1300 hours on my unit in less than a year and still had the issue. Used it every day. Sometimes up to six hours.
Be careful Javs, that is a professional reviewer on the AVSforum, have respect . Bolloks is another word for lie. Are you saying he is a liar ?

Oh, and my Sony VW600 had three years on it 1000 hours and was near perfect when is sold . The owner enjoying every day .

What ccool96 has shared is extremely helpful and consistent with every report ( except the odd one) . Anyone that cannot support that
obviously has another agenda .

The fix is in and that is the bottom line. New units are not showing the issue and people with older models have some valuable information
provided by considerate individuals willing to help them, exactly what they needed all along.

Like I did when Ekki proposed heat and moisture I will accept this logically as did EVERY other member on this thread did until solutions were suggested.
It would seem some individuals do not want logical conclusions, don't want to help others or move forward . What @ccool96 brings with this latest
report is the very best that has been seen here to date and the FIX fits precisely with every scenario thus far.

If someonew has a better theory please do share. If you cannot accept this or don't want to help those that are still in the quagmire that is your choice. If you
cannot accept this latest, we can only assume you have another agenda .

Bolloks is not something I've seen Ekki or ccool96 be guilty of by the way. Sometimes people don't hear what they want to but that is not what this is
really supposed to be about. It's about resolving issues, helping each other and learning new things.......right ?

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post #1939 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Be careful Javs, that is a professional reviewer on the AVSforum, have respect . Bolloks is another word for lie. Are you saying he is a liar ?

Oh, and my Sony VW600 had three years on it 1000 hours and was near perfect when is sold . The owner enjoying every day .

Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

Im not the only one who put mega hours on a 3XX series and saw degradation despite heavy use. A direct opposite to what this guy says.

Your 600 could easily have had degradation, you ignore the fact that mine also measured near 11k:1 yet the gamma was freaking disastrous and near 1.8.

You never showed us your gamma measurements so you frankly have no clue on the true status of your unit either.

By the way 1000 hours in 3 years is nothing. Thats less than one hour a day average. Also not really long enough for the issue to truly show its ugly face. I got to 1300 hours before I threw in the towel. I have posted my gamma months ago to show it.

I don't doubt the facts they have taken steps to solve it, I'm saying the explanation/excuse as to which units do and don't get it is bollocks. Like I said I am not the only one who put heavy use on a unit and the thing went south.

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post #1940 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 04:52 AM
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Huh?

Aren't the RS-600's still selling for almost the same price as they were a year ago, maybe $500 to $1000 less per used than new, but that sounds normal to me...
New units are being dumped once the surprised new ones arrived , prices are really low. Certainly not half for a new, mine is used . When I first advertised it it was 100 hours in and 4 months old.
I had plenty of offers from all over the place, I would have accepted 70% in the beginning . Offers starting at around and below 50% is about the best a potential JVC buyer was willing to pay and
that is the sad truth.

Thing is, people are dumping their old models to buy the new one. Why, I wonder ? I was told the units are 99.9% the same. Well if they are, why would so many take a big hit and move on ?
I started a thread about this actually, must move this over there as it is very poignant .

My three year old Sony sold in less than 3 weeks and most everything I have ever sold has gone within a few weeks when priced right . With the JVC I hit the surprise new model introduction
that everyone was so willing to jump into apparently with .01% difference. Someone told me selling electronics is all about the timing. Obviously that is correct as I planned a purchase at market
price on the up cycle, JVC with the surprise nailed me within a couple months.

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post #1941 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
New units are being dumped once the surprised new ones arrived , prices are really low. Certainly not half for a new, mine is used . When I first advertised it it was 100 hours in and 4 months old.
I had plenty of offers from all over the place, I would have accepted 70% in the beginning . Offers starting at around and below 50% is about the best a potential JVC buyer was willing to pay and
that is the sad truth.

Thing is, people are dumping their old models to buy the new one. Why, I wonder ? I was told the units are 99.9% the same. Well if they are, why would so many take a big hit and move on ?
I started a thread about this actually, must move this over there as it is very poignant .

My three year old Sony sold in less than 3 weeks and most everything I have ever sold has gone within a few weeks when priced right . With the JVC I hit the surprise new model introduction
that everyone was so willing to jump into apparently with .01% difference. Someone told me selling electronics is all about the timing. Obviously that is correct as I planned a purchase at market
price on the up cycle, JVC with the surprise nailed me within a couple months.
Weren't you selling an X950 in the Canadian market? If that's the case it's not an RS600 in the US market where it would have sold quicker for more $$ with a much larger audience.

It doesn't appear that many members here on the forum jumped to the new models. The RS500/600 thread is still packed with activity on a daily basis and only a handful of members in the 2017 thread.

You went from loving 3D on the RS600 to a love/hate relationship with it because JVC didn't offer an update for HDR. yet folks are spoon feeding instructions on how to instantly transform the very thing you are asking for into a day/night difference between Gamma D and the updated curves which match the PQ levels of the new units. If you're not a gamer, the HDR curves will bring years of extra life to this model.
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post #1942 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 05:07 AM
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Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

Im not the only one who put mega hours on a 3XX series and saw degradation despite heavy use. A direct opposite to what this guy says.

Your 600 could easily have had degradation, you ignore the fact that mine also measured near 11k:1 yet the gamma was freaking disastrous and near 1.8.

You never showed us your gamma measurements so you frankly have no clue on the true status of your unit either.

By the way 1000 hours in 3 years is nothing. Thats less than one hour a day average. Also not really long enough for the issue to truly show its ugly face. I got to 1300 hours before I threw in the towel. I have posted my gamma months ago to show it.

I don't doubt the facts they have taken steps to solve it, I'm saying the explanation/excuse as to which units do and don't get it is bollocks. Like I said I am not the only one who put heavy use on a unit and the thing went south.
Don't have time to read your stuff anymore sorry. You either move on and accept the fix or just continue to do what you do. Good luck finding a better theory.nWhen you actually
have something legitimate to share, will be greatly appreciated.

I'll listen to and acknowledge and accept a better explanation/theory when you have one, your bollocks and bashing will be ignored .

You see my goals are different than yours. My intention is to help others, my guess your agenda is different.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Don't have time to read your stuff anymore sorry. You either move on and accept the fix or just continue to do what you do. Good luck finding a better theory when you actually
have something legitimate share, will be greatly appreciated.

I'll list to and acknowledge and accept a better explanation/theory when you have one, your bollocks and bashing will be ignored .

You see my goals are different than yours. My intention is to help others, my guess your agenda is different.


Hilariously incorrect. I have helped many on this forum, in fact also on this very thread I have submitted hard data in which there has been zero from you but heresay.

Carry on friend.

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post #1944 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 05:39 AM
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[QUOTE=roxiedog13;51903913]I never posted to agree with the guy, I don't. It's about the supposed "professional" reviewer. I've read a lot posted by reviewers that is wrong, this is just
another bad example and the point I was making.





I controlled the variables for my VW500 in terms of moisture and heat, look at the positive results that yielded . A little common sense approach to prevention will help prevent and or mitigate further issues for earlier models and that's the message we need to get to those who have models with the varying layers of protection added .


Controlling humidity is not necessarily the solution and based on what i have seen, may not be a leading factor. My projector was in a basement environment where the humidity was never higher than 40% as i kept a dehumidifier going all the time due to my other electronics (actually never suspected the projector would need one). My 500es is about 2 yo and if my measurements are correct, i am less than 4000 to 1 on/off contrast. What is very observable is the "brightness" of the 0 IRE and gamma shift (ie 2.2 now closer 1.9 to 2.0). Picture is still very watchable especially with the effect of the DI.
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post #1945 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 07:52 AM
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[quote=Oilmanmojo;51907705]
Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I never posted to agree with the guy, I don't. It's about the supposed "professional" reviewer. I've read a lot posted by reviewers that is wrong, this is just
another bad example and the point I was making.





I controlled the variables for my VW500 in terms of moisture and heat, look at the positive results that yielded . A little common sense approach to prevention will help prevent and or mitigate further issues for earlier models and that's the message we need to get to those who have models with the varying layers of protection added .


Controlling humidity is not necessarily the solution and based on what i have seen, may not be a leading factor. My projector was in a basement environment where the humidity was never higher than 40% as i kept a dehumidifier going all the time due to my other electronics (actually never suspected the projector would need one). My 500es is about 2 yo and if my measurements are correct, i am less than 4000 to 1 on/off contrast. What is very observable is the "brightness" of the 0 IRE and gamma shift (ie 2.2 now closer 1.9 to 2.0). Picture is still very watchable especially with the effect of the DI.
I assume you saw the post ccool96 made about the layers of prevention put in place . No one will argue your losses, you tell us the numbers and that's it . Variables in your theater, dust in the filter, heat, installation restrictions , method of taking the measurements, position of meter , light in the room , on or off screen measurement and accuracy of the instrument all weigh in to your numbers and that is the bottom line . Your numbers however if accurate fall in line with the heat( mostly) and moisture or a combination of the two as the possible culprit. The layers of protection Sony have been adding to models in steps and the variance in levels line up almost perfectly with reports so based on that all we can do is put in the necessary prevention and get this message to owners that hove older units.

In the mean time a few posts back a guy posted that he did correct gamma with the Sony professional software quite easily. Have a look at that and send him a PM, ya never know. . I added black velvet to the walls of my theater when I had the VW600 and it was like a new projector and a cheap upgrade at that. If your theater is black already, you've done your best.

Change the filters and change the lamp. Keep the room cold and dry, use a HEPA filter and be sure the air is restricted and fan working properly . A Sony tech said he changes the lamps on these at 600-1000 hours because there is a noticeable drop at that point. He replaces the filters same time. On commercial projectors in simulators they are beyond 20000 hours and still going strong. He told me heat is the number one killer for these panels, when they fail most often it is due to the heat . All we can do is apply the most common sense approach for now and give Sony all the negative feedback possible, unfortunately it does not solve all problems at least there is some remedies for old and most important a fix in place working for the newer models .

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
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Is Nigel Archer a professional AV reviewer? All I can find are a few blog items and the fact that he is company director of both Arrow Estate Agents Ltd. (a real estate company) and Arrow Audiovisual Ltd., both incorporated in the UK less than a year ago.

EDIT: It seems that Arrow Audiovisual Ltd. claims to have a 25-year history but Mr. Archer was named director less than a year ago.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Is Nigel Archer a professional AV reviewer? All I can find are a few blog items and the fact that he is company director of both Arrow Estate Agents Ltd. (a real estate company) and Arrow Audiovisual Ltd., both incorporated in the UK less than a year ago.
No idea. This site is like Playboy to me. I don't read the articles...

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post #1948 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post

I assume you saw the post ccool96 made about the layers of prevention put in place . ...
These "layers" are marketing pixie-dust until they tell us what they've done. Usually I'd say this would be covered by the "trade secrets" thing, but their "trade secret" performance is so poor in this area I'd want some details.

Note, your post was an open post and I am free to respond. And this is not OT.
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post #1949 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 12:13 PM
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this is unfortunate and much more obvious as an immediate issue vs. the contrast loss on the 1st gen 4K models so it's easier to get it in front of their engineers.

Some folks 5000ES's are displaying blue only after a recent firmware update. 1st report was about 3 weeks and they are looking for a solution.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...thread-22.html
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post #1950 of 2177 Old 03-31-2017, 12:58 PM
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[quote=roxiedog13;51910289]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilmanmojo View Post

I assume you saw the post ccool96 made about the layers of prevention put in place . No one will argue your losses, you tell us the numbers and that's it . Variables in your theater, dust in the filter, heat, installation restrictions , method of taking the measurements, position of meter , light in the room , on or off screen measurement and accuracy of the instrument all weigh in to your numbers and that is the bottom line . Your numbers however if accurate fall in line with the heat( mostly) and moisture or a combination of the two as the possible culprit. The layers of protection Sony have been adding to models in steps and the variance in levels line up almost perfectly with reports so based on that all we can do is put in the necessary prevention and get this message to owners that hove older units.

In the mean time a few posts back a guy posted that he did correct gamma with the Sony professional software quite easily. Have a look at that and send him a PM, ya never know. . I added black velvet to the walls of my theater when I had the VW600 and it was like a new projector and a cheap upgrade at that. If your theater is black already, you've done your best.

Change the filters and change the lamp. Keep the room cold and dry, use a HEPA filter and be sure the air is restricted and fan working properly . A Sony tech said he changes the lamps on these at 600-1000 hours because there is a noticeable drop at that point. He replaces the filters same time. On commercial projectors in simulators they are beyond 20000 hours and still going strong. He told me heat is the number one killer for these panels, when they fail most often it is due to the heat . All we can do is apply the most common sense approach for now and give Sony all the negative feedback possible, unfortunately it does not solve all problems at least there is some remedies for old and most important a fix in place working for the newer models .
Roxie

Thanks for reply. I am working with the calibration software to adjust the gamma curve and that will improve the pic as i have done some informal tweaks with positive results. Correct me if i am wrong, but i am not aware of a filter system for the 500ES projector. Not sure how changing the bulb improves on/off contrast as i can easily hit my 100 IRE at about 16-17ftl, with plenty of control left. The 0 IRE is what is off, it is too bright. But, i do have a spare lamp and it doesn't hurt to try.

I do hear about the "layers" of protection being bandied around, but right now those are just buzz words until someone can or will explain what the exact nature of the protection layer is. Working in a high tech industry who routinely does Root Cause analysis and LOPA analysis, SIL/SIS etc, i understand fully how layers of protection work so i am encouraged by the discussions, but without facts concerning what those layers of protection consists of, again, they are just encouraging words.

I do agree that the black background in the room also improved the percieved contrast ratio. It has made a great difference in my set up. I do have full light control so no issue there. However, the pitch black background does accentuate the "bright 0 IRE" screen.

Thank you for the suggestions as i have learned a lot in the past year about these incredible and frustrating machines.
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