Sony SXRD Degradation Thread - Effects All Current Sony SXRD 1080p/4K Panels - Page 75 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2221 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I owned the vw90es for 7 years, 2.5 lamps, 4000+ hours, and it remained a fantastic projector all that time. I also had experience with vw80es and vw85es, and they were also great projectors.

I would definitely consider buying another Sony in the future, especially since I have experienced more of a lottery with my current brand projector.
I loved that model and the 95ES afterwards.
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post #2222 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 08:57 AM
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I am actually surprised this “thread” is still going. It seems like anytime anyone has an issue with a Sony projector this is the platform to complain. No matter what the issue is. Cracks me up. Like other brands never have issues?


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post #2223 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 09:08 AM
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Look, one of the highest regarded professional projector calibrators in Norway Gorm Sørensen(responsible for a huge amount of pro calibrated Sony`s JVC`s and Epson`s in Norway) which is also Admin in Avforum.no (a bit like Avsforum but in Norwegian language) and works for one of the highest regarded projector shops AVshop.no that specializes in sound and picture for hi end consumers

Gorm are saying that all Sony projectors is affected by panel degradation(especially degradation of blacks), its just a matter of time, it varies between models and it varies within the same models how long it will take
You can get lucky and get a golden sample but that's a lottery

Some can be affected badly after only 1300 hours which my last HW55 indeed was
Sony`s are more affected than any other brands

Gorm wont say that when speaking as a salesman on behalf of the shop, that is understandable as its a business, but in the forum its a different story

Note these statements was done back in 2016 to 2017 but that still applies to a whole a lot of Sony projector models including the HW65es
if HW65 is affected then so is probably the HW45 as the HW45 is basically a stripped down version of HW65, these probably looses blacks in a slower rate(hopefully) but that does not mean they aren't affected

You can check your selves and use google translate, the thread is only 2 pages long so there is no excuse not to read if you dont believe me:
https://avforum.no/forum/index.php?threads/blir-projektorer-fort-utdatert.275586/

This post in particular stands out where he says every Sony projector looses blacks :
https://avforum.no/forum/index.php?t...2#post-4090444

None of the Sony 1080p projectors have 5 layers of protection like roxiedog13 implied

Some people doesn't see the degradation as it comes gradually but if you compare a used one to a new one it becomes visible
even when the black levels drops these projectors still looks great in normal brighter scenes but in dark scenes its just meh(depending on how bad the degradation is OFC)
the last HW55 i had almost felt like watching a DLP in black scenes but it still looked pretty good in normal bright scenes


When the lightening strike twice on two different projectors within the same model bought from two totally different stores that's a huge indication that this projector model is bad news and back they went

The HW55es have four bad reports in page 74 alone so save your breaths trying to undermine our voices for us that where affected

Actually the first HW55es i bought demo used was green lighted by Sony them selves as in great condition so Sony is not a brand i will trust easily after this experience

Like i said earlier i gave Sony the benefit of the doubt hoping the first HW55 was just bad luck but it didn't turn out that way, i got a even worse HW55es the second time

Im feed up with Sony`s BS
I just want a great projector for my money and i wasted a lot of time going trough 5 Sony projectors
The new HW45´s has a focus issue and you need to find a golden one to get a acceptable focus if you have high standards

I believe in a lot of the negatives comments written in here because i have experienced some of them my self within a time period of 4-5 months in 2019
Sadly i had to learn it the hard way because i didn't think it was this bad
So a big thanks to the fanboys who are telling everybody there is no issues with Sony
(I wish i had found that Avforum.no thread sooner)

If Sony was such a great brand in projectors and there wasn't a big degradation issue with them then this thread would simply not exist

Sony fanboys should definitively create a JVC thread where you point out the JVC`s cons as someone like me who is still looking to replace my old projector would be interested in a thread like that

If anyone has a suspicious agenda in here its the ones that denies a known fact(covering up and gas lightening a known problem etc etc)

Over and out
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post #2224 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I am actually surprised this “thread” is still going. It seems like anytime anyone has an issue with a Sony projector this is the platform to complain. No matter what the issue is. Cracks me up. Like other brands never have issues?

For one this is the thread that is most on topic to complain/warn about Sony panel degradation
no projector is perfect that im aware of but no other projector brand have had such a severe black degradation history as Sony that im aware of

I am surprised that you are not aware that a huge amount of HW55es projectors is being sold on the used market and are advertised as one of the most reliable projectors Sony have created

The ones i bought was from shops so i could return mine but on the used market you will be stuck with a cold turkey

My personal bad experience is strictly with the HW55 and the HW45 so i am talking strictly about Sony 1080p projectors here but i have no reason to doubt others bad reports on other Sony models

So this is all just fun to you, it cracks you up ?
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post #2225 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
I am actually surprised this “thread” is still going. It seems like anytime anyone has an issue with a Sony projector this is the platform to complain. No matter what the issue is. Cracks me up. Like other brands never have issues?

At least with the other brands, they admitted their was a problem and I was dealt with properly.
Sony never admitted there was even a degradation problem, let alone releasing a public repair for it, and that's what really gets under my skin.

Plus when I finally did contact Sony to ask about my concerns, I was treated very rudely and shouted at over the phone.
It took all day to finally get through to an actual person who knew what was going on, or at least what he thought he knew.

Sony is in it to make money, not to look after customers, all they cared about is not having to deal with a major recall.
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post #2226 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 11:46 AM
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At least with the other brands, they admitted their was a problem and I was dealt with properly.
Sony never admitted there was even a degradation problem, let alone releasing a public repair for it, and that's what really gets under my skin.

Plus when I finally did contact Sony to ask about my concerns, I was treated very rudely and shouted at over the phone.
It took all day to finally get through to an actual person who knew what was going on, or at least what he thought he knew.

Sony is in it to make money, not to look after customers, all they cared about is not having to deal with a major recall.
Really? They did admit to issues? I remember a thread about the other brand that was started and closed and the member who started it was banned. Wasn’t it something to do with noise in the image when using the up conversion method they were using? Anyway, I guess if it makes you feel better then post away. Must be hard to move on after purchasing another brand to keep coming back to this thread... over and over again....

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post #2227 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jfjer View Post
For one this is the thread that is most on topic to complain/warn about Sony panel degradation
no projector is perfect that im aware of but no other projector brand have had such a severe black degradation history as Sony that im aware of

I am surprised that you are not aware that a huge amount of HW55es projectors is being sold on the used market and are advertised as one of the most reliable projectors Sony have created

The ones i bought was from shops so i could return mine but on the used market you will be stuck with a cold turkey

My personal bad experience is strictly with the HW55 and the HW45 so i am talking strictly about Sony 1080p projectors here but i have no reason to doubt others bad reports on other Sony models

So this is all just fun to you, it cracks you up ?
Careful, your posts our reading like the original thread starter who is no longer here. So which projector are you using these days? And fun this hobby is to me, yes. Cracks me up yes to see the same thing over and over again from the same posters...

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post #2228 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 11:53 AM
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No worries, I will go back and enjoy my Sony projectors which have not had a single issue... carry on.
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post #2229 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 02:04 PM
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Of course there were a few here continuously exaggerating the issue , even suggesting current models were affected. One individual also kept repeating that gamma for Sony projectors was not correctable when in fact Sony software could absolutely correct gamma droop all along. Same person was using a known faulty Sony projector during a/b comparison tests with a JVC, posting plenty of comparison photos. A perfect example of confirmation bias. Pretty bad when you knowingly use a broken projector in a comparison .
.
That is actually flat out incorrect. That machine was calibrated for gamma and grey scale in the day, we checked, and I said this multiple times if you were to actually read entire posts. It suffered gamma droop months later and was sold which is completely irrelevant if it performed properly previously.

Nice little stab at me though... Don't you have better things to do?

Also, what use is the Sony software if you dealer and Sony flat out refuses to give it to you AS HAPPENED to mine.



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post #2230 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
That is actually flat out incorrect. That machine was calibrated for gamma and grey scale in the day, we checked, and I said this multiple times if you were to actually read entire posts. It suffered gamma droop months later and was sold which is completely irrelevant if it performed properly previously.

Nice little stab at me though... Don't you have better things to do?

Also, what use is the Sony software if you dealer and Sony flat out refuses to give it to you AS HAPPENED to mine.



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What projector did you move on to ?
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post #2231 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 05:31 PM
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What projector did you move on to ?
I've had a Sony and two Jvcs

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post #2232 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 05:51 PM
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Haven't been paying attention to this thread (or most lately really), but I have A LOT of experience calibrating Sony projectors (and just about any other brand). I can't say that I've seen any signs or symptoms of the degradation with the newest Sony projectors (695/885/995). I have experience the problem first hand very recently with a client that had a Sony 1100ES. I was hired to calibrate his projector a few weeks ago while I was in Portland. The projector said it had 400 hours and the light output was almost completely gone. He had a brand new bulb that we put in and light went up but was still about half of what I would expect from that projector/screen combo. The image had obvious signs of uniformity issues and the contrast was around DLP level. Image was extremely blue like I've seen from older SXRD front and rear projection units with the issue (Jim at Lumagen had an old Pearl that even with a newer lamp made everything look like you were watching The Smurfs!).

The only "newer" unit I've seen with issues was the 5000ES I did at CEDIA a few months ago. But I think its issues were more in the handling of that unit over time. It had some extreme uniformity issues and contrast was again WAY lower than I typically see from 5000ES units. This was for the Alcon's booth and one of their guys is a calibrator as well and he saw the issues immediately before I ever showed up and my measurements confirmed it. But again, I don't think the two things are related. I've done too many 5000's with no contrast issues to think that it was an issue for the model.
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post #2233 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jfjer View Post
For one this is the thread that is most on topic to complain/warn about Sony panel degradation
no projector is perfect that im aware of but no other projector brand have had such a severe black degradation history as Sony that im aware of

I am surprised that you are not aware that a huge amount of HW55es projectors is being sold on the used market and are advertised as one of the most reliable projectors Sony have created

The ones i bought was from shops so i could return mine but on the used market you will be stuck with a cold turkey

My personal bad experience is strictly with the HW55 and the HW45 so i am talking strictly about Sony 1080p projectors here but i have no reason to doubt others bad reports on other Sony models

So this is all just fun to you, it cracks you up ?

I couldn't sell my 55ES, even with a new optical block. My son, who doesn't care about black levels, enjoys it for free.
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post #2234 of 2237 Old 11-07-2019, 06:37 PM
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Haven't been paying attention to this thread (or most lately really), but I have A LOT of experience calibrating Sony projectors (and just about any other brand). I can't say that I've seen any signs or symptoms of the degradation with the newest Sony projectors (695/885/995). I have experience the problem first hand very recently with a client that had a Sony 1100ES. I was hired to calibrate his projector a few weeks ago while I was in Portland. The projector said it had 400 hours and the light output was almost completely gone. He had a brand new bulb that we put in and light went up but was still about half of what I would expect from that projector/screen combo. The image had obvious signs of uniformity issues and the contrast was around DLP level. Image was extremely blue like I've seen from older SXRD front and rear projection units with the issue (Jim at Lumagen had an old Pearl that even with a newer lamp made everything look like you were watching The Smurfs!).

The only "newer" unit I've seen with issues was the 5000ES I did at CEDIA a few months ago. But I think its issues were more in the handling of that unit over time. It had some extreme uniformity issues and contrast was again WAY lower than I typically see from 5000ES units. This was for the Alcon's booth and one of their guys is a calibrator as well and he saw the issues immediately before I ever showed up and my measurements confirmed it. But again, I don't think the two things are related. I've done too many 5000's with no contrast issues to think that it was an issue for the model.

Good to hear that the newer 4k Sony's doesn't have the issue


It seems like some people think that some of us that reports bad news want Sony projectors to be bad and there is a hidden agenda
Not at all, the SXRD panels looks great in use

that's why it has been so upsetting when it goes wrong for me at least


A native 4k will be for steep for my wallet on next upgrade i think

but this is the most credible and informative info i have heard on the newer Sony`s


Its also much easier taking things serious when the messenger base his/her statements on lots of experience with an unbiased view and without being condescending, thanks
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post #2235 of 2237 Old 11-08-2019, 04:14 AM
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I can't say that I've seen any signs or symptoms of the degradation with the newest Sony projectors (695/885/995).
Really useful information. Have you started doing many re-calibrations / touch ups yet on those units Kris or are they still mostly new first calibrations?
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post #2236 of 2237 Old 11-08-2019, 08:10 AM
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Really useful information. Have you started doing many re-calibrations / touch ups yet on those units Kris or are they still mostly new first calibrations?
Bit of both. I think the presumption that laser based projectors don't need follow up calibrations as often as bulb based projectors has not held up. I've seen just as much drift in RGB accuracy as I do with bulbs so far, though overall light output doesn't change quite as much. I think the laser itself doesn't drift as much but the phosphor, panels and filters change properties enough from the heat and use that we're seeing a clear need for follow up calibrations. This applies to the Sony and JVC laser models I've done.
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. The image had obvious signs of uniformity issues and the contrast was around DLP level. Image was extremely blue like I've seen from older SXRD front and rear projection units with the issue (Jim at Lumagen had an old Pearl that even with a newer lamp made everything look like you were watching The Smurfs!).

Yes, my 2007 60" SXRD RPTV (A3000) turned blue by 2009. It was especially notable in dark scenes, but got worse over of time and calibration only mildly reduced it for a brief time before it came roaring back. Color gamut shrunk and contrast ratio dropped a lot.

Sony lost a class action lawsuit over SXRD RPTV panel degradation. I ended up getting a free ($800 value) 46" Sony LCD from the suit which I gave to my girlfriend's kids to use for games...they are still using it today although are wanting 4K now.
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