Official JVC DLA-RS400 (X550/X5000) Owner's Thread - Page 123 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3661 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kutlow77 View Post
can someone who done the BT20202 file please give me a call 304-421-5777 . A friend and I just done the firmware update. Now I want the BT2020 file. I would like if someone could call us to explain a few things before we screw this thing up. Thanks in advance.
That would be me. lol

I never could get the network connection directly between the laptop and the projector to work.

Is there something you have to do that's not in the PDF to make it connect? I did go by the directions and apparently am missing something. This is a Windows 10 laptop if that makes any difference.
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post #3662 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
That would be me. lol

I never could get the network connection directly between the laptop and the projector to work.

Is there something you have to do that's not in the PDF to make it connect? I did go by the directions and apparently am missing something. This is a Windows 10 laptop if that makes any difference.
Did you enable DHCP on the projector?
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post #3663 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 05:33 PM
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Did you enable DHCP on the projector?

Is that in the drop down menu? I don't think we done that.
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post #3664 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 05:36 PM
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Are you connecting directly with CAT5 Lan cable or connecting through your home network?

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post #3665 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
That would be me. lol

I never could get the network connection directly between the laptop and the projector to work.

Is there something you have to do that's not in the PDF to make it connect? I did go by the directions and apparently am missing something. This is a Windows 10 laptop if that makes any difference.
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Originally Posted by Doright View Post
Did you enable DHCP on the projector?
Also make sure you turn of WiFi on your laptop. That's not mentioned in the instructions, and caused me some grief until I figured out that it needed to be off.

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post #3666 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Doright View Post
Are you connecting directly with CAT5 Lan cable or connecting through your home network?
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Direct connect with ethernet cable going between projector and laptop.

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Originally Posted by Doright View Post
Did you enable DHCP on the projector?
For direct connect, don't the instructions say to leave it off?

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Originally Posted by DLCPhoto View Post
Also make sure you turn of WiFi on your laptop. That's not mentioned in the instructions, and caused me some grief until I figured out that it needed to be off.
Definitely didn't know to turn it off. It was on the whole time.
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post #3667 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 08:30 PM
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So the only sure way for most of us is to get a professional calibration?
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post #3668 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 08:44 PM
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So the only sure way for most of us is to get a professional calibration?
Pretty much, yes. You want a meter to be profiled off a good spectro (e.g. Jeti 1211, etc.) and these meters like projectors/displays will drift over time and need to be re-profiled. Think of it like a re-calibration. The Spyders while part of the autocal process vary a lot in term of accuracy. They are low end meters. Typically, a calibrator will use one for the auto cal then creating a profile to manually adjust with a better meter profiled to the spectro (like a Klein K10 to the Jeti). This is for the best result.

Last edited by DavidHir; 01-14-2017 at 08:53 PM.
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post #3669 of 5613 Old 01-14-2017, 08:49 PM
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Only problem is, you need a fairly accurate Spyder 5 meter and you have no way of knowing that, unless you get the meter profiled by someone that has a good meter.
Do the Spyder 5s have an internal memory to save a profile made off of a spectrometer or does the profile reside within the software such as Calman, etc.

Reason being is I thought I read that the Spyder 5 and 4 weren't particularly accurate and without having some way of profiling where the correction file goes into the Spyders, then you're likely to have gone through this exercise (and expense) and wind up with an inaccurate picture.

Too bad the software doesn't include an option for other colorimeters.
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post #3670 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 12:13 AM
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For you all having trouble importing the JVC 2020 profile...you can also just create your own custom profile and use the settings provided on JVCs page (http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...rs400_uhd.html ), under the "without autocal" section. It's the exact same thing as their profile either way. You should be reading that page anyway because unless you got a recent model with a recent update HDR is going to look like crud on it, out of the box. The settings outlined by JVC correct that.

I still find the 400 to be a little too dark, even in high lamp, for proper HDR on many disks. It could use more lumens. Or you can strip HDR and keep WCG with the Fury, or the new Oppo 203 (when they fix the latter with an update, it's an experimental feature right now and a bit wonky). I have a 122 scope screen so a smaller screen/shorter throw might make a difference too if that is your setup.

The Oppo 203, btw, is my favorite player with this PJ. I tried the Samsung, replaced it with the Phillips, and have now regulated the latter to my 4k TV downstairs. The 203 still has issues even with their recent beta firmware, but it is steadily improving and Oppo has a stellar rep for fine tuning.

I've already noticed some annoyances, like extremely long HDMI syncs, are a lot less annoying with the Oppo. Granted, they are still long - that is a JVC thing - but the Samsung and Philips UHD players seemed to be adding to the problem. The Oppo is quite reliable in this regard. Solid player and looks great too if you care about that kind of thing. HDR stripping still needs work but I believe it will get there soon and when it does this will be the perfect player for PJs like these that can't quite pump out enough light for HDR.
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post #3671 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ix View Post
For you all having trouble importing the JVC 2020 profile...you can also just create your own custom profile and use the settings provided on JVCs page (http://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/d...rs400_uhd.html ), under the "without autocal" section. It's the exact same thing as their profile either way. ...snip...
Thanks! In other words, on the RS400 use these settings for UHD, HDR. . and use the stripping metadata on the Oppo 203..which is a little wonky but is being worked on.
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post #3672 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 07:32 AM
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JIMP now that we have been egumacated lol let me know when you want to give it another try.
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post #3673 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 06:53 PM
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Does the RS400 have WCG? Thanks.
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post #3674 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Does the RS400 have WCG? Thanks.
Does 85% of DCI color space. The same as the Sony 365ES and 675ES.

Added
If you want full DCI, you have to step up to RS500/600.

Last edited by Mike Garrett; 01-15-2017 at 07:32 PM.
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post #3675 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 08:14 PM
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JIMP now that we have been egumacated lol let me know when you want to give it another try.
You know, this is going to cost you two steak dinners.
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post #3676 of 5613 Old 01-15-2017, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Does 85% of DCI color space. The same as the Sony 365ES and 675ES.

Added
If you want full DCI, you have to step up to RS500/600.
Gotcha! Thanks.
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post #3677 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 12:25 AM
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edit: wrong thread

A question I do have for you RS400 owners, finding it hard to find pictures of games on this projector any places where I may find some?

Last edited by frenzy987; 01-16-2017 at 01:27 AM.
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post #3678 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Does 85% of DCI color space. The same as the Sony 365ES and 675ES.



Added

If you want full DCI, you have to step up to RS500/600.


Does full DCI = WCG?

Can the Epson 6040 do more DCI than the JVC

Thanks


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post #3679 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 06:02 AM
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I have the Oppo 203 and gotta say that currently the strip metadata feature results in similar black crush issues as running HDR through it. For most films I've tested, turning off HDR resulted in the best picture.
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post #3680 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Thanks! In other words, on the RS400 use these settings for UHD, HDR. . and use the stripping metadata on the Oppo 203..which is a little wonky but is being worked on.
Not if you are stripping metadata, no. First, the UDP-203's strip metadata feature is more than a little wonky right now, though it is being worked on, and is really not something you would use currently. To really do this correctly today you'll need the Fury Integral.

Second, if you do strip metadata, you don't want to use the "stock" JVC settings for HDR with Gamma D, etc. That will result in a subpar picture. Most people use Gamma A instead of D when stripping. I can't find a good link at the moment but search this thread or check out the one dedicated to the Integral, there are JVC settings others are using posted for this use case. I'm not near my PJ atm or I'd check my settings for you (I have the Fury).

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Originally Posted by frenzy987 View Post

A question I do have for you RS400 owners, finding it hard to find pictures of games on this projector any places where I may find some?
Probably because very few people game on the current model JVCs Input lag. This is something of a sore point among JVC owners and it comes up, literally, every two-three pages of every JVC thread. That said I've seen many game SS posted in this thread alone so you should be able to find them.

There are two camps: "Input lag doesn't bother me, games are great, the rest of you are wrong" and "The input lag is horrible, no game ever made will play correctly on it, JVC is terrible for games, the rest of you are wrong". Or at least it often seems that way

Now that JVC has a slight refresh of their models on the way where the biggest change is, you guessed it, better input lag this debate will hopefully die soon. Though I fear it never will
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post #3681 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandlj View Post
Does full DCI = WCG?

Can the Epson 6040 do more DCI than the JVC

Thanks


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The 6040 does DCI and the RS400 only does 85% of DCI. The RS500/600 does DCI. Note that the 6040 is not very bright with DCI filter in place. Much dimmer than the JVC's.
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post #3682 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 09:01 AM
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The 6040 does DCI and the RS400 only does 85% of DCI. The RS500/600 does DCI. Note that the 6040 is not very bright with DCI filter in place. Much dimmer than the JVC's.
Before I exchanged the 5040/6040 for the JVC (thanks Mike) I considered HDR content with the filter in place to be basically unwatchable on the Epson. The slightly more accurate color reproduction in no way made up for the loss in lumens.

Other setups - smaller screens & shorter throws, etc. - might not have as much of an issue but yeah, as Mike is pointing out the Epson having a DCI filter isn't as big an advantage, if any, as you might think.

It was a good PJ otherwise. Perfectly fine for BD and none-HDR viewing. JVC picture beats it in light controlled settings though.
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post #3683 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 10:45 AM
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LUXE 35 ft HDMI cable not passing 4k/60p signal

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They also have a "LUXE" cable that's CL3 rated. It's available in longer runs, tested to pass full 18gbps up to 50 feet, but not "Certified Premium". Of course, the shorter you can go, the better the likely result. I'm probably going to get this one...
I just tried the 35 ft LUXE HDMI cable and it would not pass the 4k/60p for the MENU of the Samsung UHD 8500 to my RS 400 projector - It must be the signal is not strong enough coming out of the Samsung player ? Has anybody with this COMBO Samsung/JVC had the Monoprice LUXE HDMI cable work so they can see the Menu on the Samsung 8500 when it starts up?
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post #3684 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 11:00 AM
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Hi all,

I posted earlier about finally upgrading my system from an old RS45 to the new RS400 and the Oppo203
I've got everything setup and had a chance to start playing around with the settings this weekend.
It's been quite a few years since I've had to do any of this and now I remember why I put off upgrading for so long.
This stuff is a little complicated for the average Joe.

I was able to download the BT2020 profile and I purchased my very first 4K BluRay - Jason Bourne, just so I have something to play around with.
I'm bypassing my older Anthem D2 and running directly to HDMI2 with the Oppo. I set it to "strip metadata" and I get a picture, but very dark as others have mentioned. The "strip metadata" seems to be fine for me.
I'll play around with some of the settings others have posted.

I also have my DirecTV running through my Anthem D2, and played around with that setting too. I set up USER1 (Renamed it "TV") and got the picture to look pretty good.

Anyway, I have a couple of questions:

*Do I need to set up a different user setting for each type of signal - BluRay, 4K BluRay, DirecTV, etc? I assume the answer is yes, just wondering if this is what everyone is doing?

* Do all 4K BluRays carry HDR?

* Someone mentioned that turning off HDR resulted in a better picture. How would you "turn off HDR"? Is this done in the OPPO or the RS400?

*Finally, as mentioned, I have an older Anthem D2 which will not process all of these new audio formats (Atmos and DTS-X). I have my Oppo set for LPCM at the moment. Is it worth it to upgrade my receiver?

Appreciate your help!!
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post #3685 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
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Probably because very few people game on the current model JVCs Input lag. This is something of a sore point among JVC owners and it comes up, literally, every two-three pages of every JVC thread. That said I've seen many game SS posted in this thread alone so you should be able to find them.

There are two camps: "Input lag doesn't bother me, games are great, the rest of you are wrong" and "The input lag is horrible, no game ever made will play correctly on it, JVC is terrible for games, the rest of you are wrong". Or at least it often seems that way

Now that JVC has a slight refresh of their models on the way where the biggest change is, you guessed it, better input lag this debate will hopefully die soon. Though I fear it never will
Thanks I will keep trawling through the thread for them, and you're right once the new models come out hopefully there is a lot more information regarding it.

On another note, how is the motion handling on the RS400 at 60fps?
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post #3686 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 02:01 PM
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Hi all,


Anyway, I have a couple of questions:

*Do I need to set up a different user setting for each type of signal - BluRay, 4K BluRay, DirecTV, etc? I assume the answer is yes, just wondering if this is what everyone is doing?
Yes. Mostly. I divide mine in to SDR, HDR (one SDR works fine for both 2k and 4k) and TV. You may or may not want to add one for DVD as well, or just stick with SDR settings. I also calibrated an SDR setting for my Shield TV since it calibrates a little different from my Oppo UHD player.

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* Do all 4K BluRays carry HDR?
No. Nor streaming 4k for that matter. It is common but not universal for UHD disks. It is uncommon but increasing for 4k streams (Netflix, Amazon, etc.)

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* Someone mentioned that turning off HDR resulted in a better picture. How would you "turn off HDR"? Is this done in the OPPO or the RS400?
You can just disable HDR in the player - I think all current UHD players support this. This sends a rec.709 signal which basically means lower color depth - though lower is in the eye of the beholder; consider all BDs use this still.

Or you can strip HDR metadata - which (simply put) removes the contrast-scaling, but keeps the wider color gamut of rec.2020. People do this primarily to get more accurate colors/increased color depth (less banding, etc.) without the extra bright/dark metadata information that many PJs - like this one - don't do a good job handling in the first place due to lack of lumen output.

I am oversimplifying and whether you want to do this or not is purely a matter of taste. Right now, today, the only sure way to strip HDR is to use an external device - the HDFury Integral. The Oppo player has an "experimental" HDR stripping feature however it doesn't work well at all. This will probably be corrected in a future update but how long that takes is anyone's guess.

Quote:
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*Finally, as mentioned, I have an older Anthem D2 which will not process all of these new audio formats (Atmos and DTS-X). I have my Oppo set for LPCM at the moment. Is it worth it to upgrade my receiver?

Appreciate your help!!
Assuming you have a good speaker setup that is Atmos, etc. ready, then yes. Otherwise upgrade those as well. Atmos, done well, is pretty awesome with titles that support it. It is tricky to implement (as far as speakers and placement go) but if you are really in to multi-channel sound that is where it's at.
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post #3687 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 02:29 PM
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Yes. Mostly. I divide mine in to SDR, HDR (one SDR works fine for both 2k and 4k) and TV. You may or may not want to add one for DVD as well, or just stick with SDR settings. I also calibrated an SDR setting for my Shield TV since it calibrates a little different from my Oppo UHD player.



No. Nor streaming 4k for that matter. It is common but not universal for UHD disks. It is uncommon but increasing for 4k streams (Netflix, Amazon, etc.)



You can just disable HDR in the player - I think all current UHD players support this. This sends a rec.709 signal which basically means lower color depth - though lower is in the eye of the beholder; consider all BDs use this still.

Or you can strip HDR metadata - which (simply put) removes the contrast-scaling, but keeps the wider color gamut of rec.2020. People do this primarily to get more accurate colors/increased color depth (less banding, etc.) without the extra bright/dark metadata information that many PJs - like this one - don't do a good job handling in the first place due to lack of lumen output.

I am oversimplifying and whether you want to do this or not is purely a matter of taste. Right now, today, the only sure way to strip HDR is to use an external device - the HDFury Integral. The Oppo player has an "experimental" HDR stripping feature however it doesn't work well at all. This will probably be corrected in a future update but how long that takes is anyone's guess.



Assuming you have a good speaker setup that is Atmos, etc. ready, then yes. Otherwise upgrade those as well. Atmos, done well, is pretty awesome with titles that support it. It is tricky to implement (as far as speakers and placement go) but if you are really in to multi-channel sound that is where it's at.

Hi I also have the rs400 and thinking of getting the oppus.. Question, ive had the projector for a year and ive streamed a lot of 4k from youtube and it looks amazing.. If you disable HDR on the player does rec.709 look better than streaming from youtube.. Im having a hard time believing that an UHD blu-ray will look even better than what im seeing while streaming.. Thanks

Last edited by jorgebetancourt; 01-16-2017 at 03:07 PM.
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post #3688 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 03:20 PM
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Hi I also have the rs400 and thinking of getting the oppus.. Question, ive had the projector for a year and ive streamed a lot of 4k from youtube and it looks amazing.. If you disable HDR on the player does rec.709 look better than streaming from youtube.. Im having a hard time believing that an UHD blu-ray will look even better than what im seeing while streaming.. Thanks
Beauty in the eye of the beholder, and all that

Consider the source differences. Many Youtube videos - particularly ones meant for "wow!" type demos - run at 60fps and come from 4k/8k cameras. Most UHD movies are coming over as 23.96/24fps and additionally quite a few are mastered from 2k sources. A 4k video filmed with a 4k camera at 60fps will certainly seem to "pop" more than a 24fps film. Doesn't mean one is "better" than the other; they just look different.

Some UHDs sourced from 2k don't really look any better than their 2k BD version - Oblivion is a great example (unfortunately) of such a disk. Other 2k transfers, like Pacific Rim, are a noticiable improvement. Then there are 4k transfer films which look outstanding - there's a whole thread on AVS dedicated to UHD transfers and reviews, look it up.

Overall UHD will look better if mastered from a good source correctly. A disk will still trump most streaming services in terms of bitrate. However it's certainly possible to perceive otherwise. My wife for example loves the motion-enhanced "soap opera effect" CMD brings and prefers it whenever we watch stuff on our TV. In my theater stuff looks too "movie like" to her which, you know, would normally be a compliment but...see my first sentence of this reply

Personally I think HDR done right is a much bigger jump in perceived quality than 2k-4k with current content, but only on a display that has enough brightness to handle it. On the JVCs it's better to strip HDR and keep WCG, because color banding issues, etc. are mitigated or eliminated at the higher color depth, and PJs have a hard time in most setups outputting enough light for HDR contrast benefits to really shine. Stripping the HDR metadata gives you the best of both. Make sense?
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post #3689 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 03:40 PM
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Thanks for the input @IX
I've got some work to do to get this right. I haven't even gotten my Nvidia shield yet.
BTW, I actually ordered an Integral and having it sitting here. It sounds like you'd recommend installing it even though my Oppo strips the metadata, correct.
Are there particular settings on that thing to make it work with my Oppo? Reading through the manual on the internet was a little overwhelming.

If I get too frustrated (this stuff doesn't come easy to me but I'm pretty persistent), I may get it professionally calibrated.
After reading through this thread, I see that many have gone this route. Not sure what the cost of this is but I won't go that route without tinkering myself for a while.
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post #3690 of 5613 Old 01-16-2017, 03:52 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ix View Post
Beauty in the eye of the beholder, and all that

Consider the source differences. Many Youtube videos - particularly ones meant for "wow!" type demos - run at 60fps and come from 4k/8k cameras. Most UHD movies are coming over as 23.96/24fps and additionally quite a few are mastered from 2k sources. A 4k video filmed with a 4k camera at 60fps will certainly seem to "pop" more than a 24fps film. Doesn't mean one is "better" than the other; they just look different.

Some UHDs sourced from 2k don't really look any better than their 2k BD version - Oblivion is a great example (unfortunately) of such a disk. Other 2k transfers, like Pacific Rim, are a noticiable improvement. Then there are 4k transfer films which look outstanding - there's a whole thread on AVS dedicated to UHD transfers and reviews, look it up.

Overall UHD will look better if mastered from a good source correctly. A disk will still trump most streaming services in terms of bitrate. However it's certainly possible to perceive otherwise. My wife for example loves the motion-enhanced "soap opera effect" CMD brings and prefers it whenever we watch stuff on our TV. In my theater stuff looks too "movie like" to her which, you know, would normally be a compliment but...see my first sentence of this reply

Personally I think HDR done right is a much bigger jump in perceived quality than 2k-4k with current content, but only on a display that has enough brightness to handle it. On the JVCs it's better to strip HDR and keep WCG, because color banding issues, etc. are mitigated or eliminated at the higher color depth, and PJs have a hard time in most setups outputting enough light for HDR contrast benefits to really shine. Stripping the HDR metadata gives you the best of both. Make sense?
I think i got it.. Yes in most cases?
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