Official JVC DLA-RS400 (X550/X5000) Owner's Thread - Page 185 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5521 of 5652 Old 03-02-2019, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Hello gentleman, i cant seem to keep my user settings 1,2,3, to stay in “import”, they are always back to Gamma D

I know theres a sequence to do it, it stayed once before
Unless you use a HDFury device to block the HDR flag, I’m not aware of any other way to prevent the projector from switching to Gamma D when detecting HDR.
Ok, so i have to cycle the gamma til i get it

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post #5522 of 5652 Old 03-03-2019, 04:56 AM
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My projector has over 3000 hours on the original lamp and still looks great.
Very nice to hear. I'm at 2000 and my lamp is still going strong.

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post #5523 of 5652 Old 03-06-2019, 04:40 PM
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I bought today the Jvc x5000 👏🏼👏🏼👏&#x1f 3fc;
I have a few questions:
1.The picture in hdr with the hdfury has significant difference? Easy to use?
2.I have a problem with the PS4 pro, the screen Painted in green(I attached photo), it’s fix just if I put the resolution on 2160Yuv.
3.How do I turn on the 3D glasses? I tried all the options! It’s work only if I unplugged the emitter and plug it again.
4.what is the best picture mode in tv shows, football and PS4(with lowest input lag)
5.Its worth to buy spyder 5 and make auto calibration?
Ty
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post #5524 of 5652 Old 03-06-2019, 06:39 PM
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What’s latest firmware for RS400?
I’m at this


Plus ... it’s been so long how can I enable turning off e-shift so I can focus at pixel level? It’s grayed our, can’t select it



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post #5525 of 5652 Old 03-06-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
What’s latest firmware for RS400?
I’m at this


Plus ... it’s been so long how can I enable turning off e-shift so I can focus at pixel level? It’s grayed our, can’t select it



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I am at the same firmware but I am not certain if it is the latest or not. In order to turn off e-shift you have to feed it a 1080p signal as it will always enable e-shift when it receives a 4K signal.


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post #5526 of 5652 Old 03-07-2019, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
I am at the same firmware but I am not certain if it is the latest or not. In order to turn off e-shift you have to feed it a 1080p signal as it will always enable e-shift when it receives a 4K signal.


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Truly thx !!
Easiest way, turn on projector without anything else on ..


So I focused with e-shift off, saw the micro grid inside the green grid,
I then do a plus/minus 5 button to see truly at mid point and focused.


When I put e-shift back on the micro grid is gone, I’m sure it’s been discussed but why is that?
Seems counterintuitive to more detail ...


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post #5527 of 5652 Old 03-08-2019, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by liel View Post
I bought today the Jvc x5000 👏🏼👏🏼👏&#x1f 3fc;
I have a few questions:
1.The picture in hdr with the hdfury has significant difference? Easy to use?
2.I have a problem with the PS4 pro, the screen Painted in green(I attached photo), it’s fix just if I put the resolution on 2160Yuv.
3.How do I turn on the 3D glasses? I tried all the options! It’s work only if I unplugged the emitter and plug it again.
4.what is the best picture mode in tv shows, football and PS4(with lowest input lag)
5.Its worth to buy spyder 5 and make auto calibration?
Ty
Help someone?
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post #5528 of 5652 Old 03-11-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liel View Post
I bought today the Jvc x5000 👏🏼👏🏼👏&#x1f 3fc;
I have a few questions:
1.The picture in hdr with the hdfury has significant difference? Easy to use?
2.I have a problem with the PS4 pro, the screen Painted in green(I attached photo), it’s fix just if I put the resolution on 2160Yuv.
3.How do I turn on the 3D glasses? I tried all the options! It’s work only if I unplugged the emitter and plug it again.
4.what is the best picture mode in tv shows, football and PS4(with lowest input lag)
5.Its worth to buy spyder 5 and make auto calibration?
Ty
I was hoping chime in as some of these questions I'm a bit confused on but here are my best answers:

1) HDFury only has a specific use for stopping the automatic Gamma D with HDR, Auto Iris during HDR and also telling your compatible 4K player your projector is SDR only (Panasonic UB900 is the only one that really does this with the HD Fury). What you probably want instead is a Panasonic UB820 which doesn't need a HD Fury.
2) You should be able to have your all your input signal stuff on Auto. Check your PS4 Pro settings and cables.
3) 3D should work fine. When you have the transmitter plugged in and play 3D, the glasses should work just fine.
4) No idea.
5) Eventually yes, but I'd wait until you have everything else dialed in. Jumping into AutoCal with existing issues is asking for trouble.

I made a JVC 4K QuickStart Guide (clicky). I suggest you read through it to make certain you've got everything set right.
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post #5529 of 5652 Old 03-12-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I was hoping chime in as some of these questions I'm a bit confused on but here are my best answers:

1) HDFury only has a specific use for stopping the automatic Gamma D with HDR, Auto Iris during HDR and also telling your compatible 4K player your projector is SDR only (Panasonic UB900 is the only one that really does this with the HD Fury). What you probably want instead is a Panasonic UB820 which doesn't need a HD Fury.
2) You should be able to have your all your input signal stuff on Auto. Check your PS4 Pro settings and cables.
3) 3D should work fine. When you have the transmitter plugged in and play 3D, the glasses should work just fine.
4) No idea.
5) Eventually yes, but I'd wait until you have everything else dialed in. Jumping into AutoCal with existing issues is asking for trouble.

I made a JVC 4K QuickStart Guide (clicky). I suggest you read through it to make certain you've got everything set right.
Ty for your helps!
1.About the automatic Gamma D , I import a new Gamma for HDR and now its just click on the Gamma button when i see Hdr content so its not a big deal.
But i saw reviews say that the Auto iris is significant difference, What you think its worth that?
I tought about the Hdfury beacuse I am use PS4 pro and Xiaomi Mibox all of that connect to soundbar and then to splitter for my tv and the projector, so its will be easy for me to plug the Hdfury between the splitter and the projector without touch the tv.
2.I tried to change all the PS4 screen setting to auto and its the same,I also tried to replace the cables and the same..., its work just when i change the resulotion to 2160YUV.
5.What is the meaning of existing issues?
And ty about the guide I will read all!
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post #5530 of 5652 Old 03-12-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liel View Post
Ty for your helps!
1.About the automatic Gamma D , I import a new Gamma for HDR and now its just click on the Gamma button when i see Hdr content so its not a big deal.
But i saw reviews say that the Auto iris is significant difference, What you think its worth that?
I tought about the Hdfury beacuse I am use PS4 pro and Xiaomi Mibox all of that connect to soundbar and then to splitter for my tv and the projector, so its will be easy for me to plug the Hdfury between the splitter and the projector without touch the tv.
2.I tried to change all the PS4 screen setting to auto and its the same,I also tried to replace the cables and the same..., its work just when i change the resulotion to 2160YUV.
5.What is the meaning of existing issues?
And ty about the guide I will read all!
The projector will always default to Gamma D whenever it sees an HDR signal. If you have a custom/premade gamma curve loaded all you need to do is hit the gamma button on the remote to switch from Gamma D to Custom 1,2,3,etc.

Auto Iris is distracting because you can see it operating (raising and lowering the brightness). I personally leave it off.

Not sure what's wrong the with PS4 settings, my PS4 Pro worked fine. My guide references the new PREMIUM CERTIFIED cables, you might need them.

I wouldn't start messing around with AutoCal until everything is working fine. AutoCal is very finicky and you need to know what your doing.
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post #5531 of 5652 Old 03-12-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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But i saw reviews say that the Auto iris is significant difference, What you think its worth that?
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Auto Iris is distracting because you can see it operating (raising and lowering the brightness). I personally leave it off.
I have had a mixed experience with the DI (Dynamic Iris, otherwise called Auto Iris). For the first year of having the RS400, I repeatedly tried the DI, and ended up turning it off because the "iris pumping" was just too common and obvious in its operation that it was very distracting.

After that, I discovered that my Iris wouldn't close at all, under any circumstances, and I had it sent in for repair.

When it came back, I again tried out the DI, and much to my surprise, I found that the previous iris pumping was about 95% or more gone during normal content, and it improved the fade-to-black dramatically, along with other improvements in darker scenes. During ending credits, the DI is still quite obvious in operation, but since that's not what I set up this system for, I don't care about this.

There are still occasional scenes where brightness levels will fluctuate in a very subtle fashion, a fairly minor manifestation of iris pumping, but at this point, these rare episodes are outweighed for me by the improvements in the rest of the content I watch.

This is a very individual thing, in terms of people's preferences, and I still wonder if there are hardware variations that impact how well the DI works. So in the best case, it can enhance the picture quality a fair amount, with minimal 'side-effects,' while in others, its operation is distracting enough that some people turn it off.

HTH.

Don
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post #5532 of 5652 Old 03-14-2019, 08:15 AM
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There was some info floating around on this awhile back. I ended up getting a genuine replacement for $250 on eBay. I wish I could get a lead on genuine bulbs only, too. Really hard to filter out the China garbage.
Ya thats the key there, makes you wonder where these cheaper genuine come from.....
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post #5533 of 5652 Old 03-17-2019, 07:21 AM
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Hey All, started to have a new issue with my JVC that I haven’t been able to find much about online. Randomly (but more often lately) when switching inputs on the receiver, or even if content from a single source switches from 4K to HD, light stops coming out of the projector. The projector also stops responding to the remote. There is some light within the projector that can be seen through the lens, and the fan is running, but no actually image projected.

I have to manually turn it off using the rear unit controls. Turns off fine. Starts up fine right away. I don’t think it is overheated, as this can happen right after I turn on the unit and make a source switch, or 3 hours in after a source switch. Not every source switch does it, but it has been more often lately.

Any thought what the issue could be? Appreciate any ideas!
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post #5534 of 5652 Old 03-17-2019, 09:44 AM
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Hey All, started to have a new issue with my JVC that I haven’t been able to find much about online. Randomly (but more often lately) when switching inputs on the receiver, or even if content from a single source switches from 4K to HD, light stops coming out of the projector. The projector also stops responding to the remote. There is some light within the projector that can be seen through the lens, and the fan is running, but no actually image projected.

I have to manually turn it off using the rear unit controls. Turns off fine. Starts up fine right away. I don’t think it is overheated, as this can happen right after I turn on the unit and make a source switch, or 3 hours in after a source switch. Not every source switch does it, but it has been more often lately.

Any thought what the issue could be? Appreciate any ideas!
I was going to give suggestions but then I saw you said it happens sometimes just changing from 4K to HD also...

The one thing I would try is to connect the source directly to the projector and see if it will do it again. So send the video signal from your 4K Blu-ray player to the projector and there should be a second HDMI out on the 4K Blu-ray player for Audio Only to send to the receiver. Watch a handful of 4K and HD movies and see if you can get it to happen again. If it does happen again, I would get your hands on a different 4K Blu-ray player and try the same thing again.

My only thought is perhaps the receiver (or maybe even the player passing through the receiver) could be sending a strange signal to the JVC to lock it up. I had my JVC lock up twice on me when messing around with the JVC Calibration Software. I know that is different, but it also went black and didn't respond and it was a source issue...

The only way to know for sure is to change up the source and see if it does it again.
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post #5535 of 5652 Old 03-19-2019, 11:51 AM
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Has any RS400/500/600 series owners remote crapped out like mine?
3 of my buttons don’t respond anymore, 1 being the return button.
Yes, tested with fresh batteries.
I’m getting by with my Harmony Elite, but still for some reason I always like a OE remote.


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post #5536 of 5652 Old 03-19-2019, 12:11 PM
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Hey Guys,

A good friend of mine has an RS400.. He is on 2000 hrs on his bulb and was wondering when he would need to replace his bulb.. Can you guys please assist with the following :


1) When does the bulb need to be changed? Is 2000 hrs too early?

2) Can you guys please advise me of the original bulb/part number and where this can be purchased from?

3) He complains of some tinting issue with the red colours.. He says it seems a little pink.. What may be the reason for this? I was thinking panel alignment but I may be wrong.

Would appreciate if you guys could help with answering these questions.. Thanks in advance.

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post #5537 of 5652 Old 03-21-2019, 01:13 PM
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Hey Guys,

A good friend of mine has an RS400.. He is on 2000 hrs on his bulb and was wondering when he would need to replace his bulb.. Can you guys please assist with the following :


1) When does the bulb need to be changed? Is 2000 hrs too early?

2) Can you guys please advise me of the original bulb/part number and where this can be purchased from?

3) He complains of some tinting issue with the red colours.. He says it seems a little pink.. What may be the reason for this? I was thinking panel alignment but I may be wrong.

Would appreciate if you guys could help with answering these questions.. Thanks in advance.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


1) How big is his screen and how far away is the projector? Does he watch 4K with HDR or just SDR content? These bulbs are rated for +3000 hours so I would only change it if the image was too dim for his taste. He may just need to open up the iris a few clicks to improve his brightness on SDR content. A lot of variables to consider...

2) JVC PKL2615U is the part you are looking for. Just google it as there are a number of suppliers out there.

3) I’ll let someone else take a stab at this one...


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post #5538 of 5652 Old 03-21-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by usc1995 View Post
1) How big is his screen and how far away is the projector? Does he watch 4K with HDR or just SDR content? These bulbs are rated for +3000 hours so I would only change it if the image was too dim for his taste. He may just need to open up the iris a few clicks to improve his brightness on SDR content. A lot of variables to consider...

2) JVC PKL2615U is the part you are looking for. Just google it as there are a number of suppliers out there.

3) I’ll let someone else take a stab at this one...


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Thank you for your reply.
150 inch screen.

By the way guys if any one is interested I have opened an Instagram account hulk_cinema I would appreciate if you like or follow me

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post #5539 of 5652 Old 03-21-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
A good friend of mine has an RS400.. He is on 2000 hrs on his bulb and was wondering when he would need to replace his bulb.. Can you guys please assist with the following :


1) When does the bulb need to be changed? Is 2000 hrs too early?
The bulb is rated for 4500 hours (low power) and 3500 hours (high power). You will get a warning message at about 80% lamp life, which will still give you plenty of time to replace it when you get that message.
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post #5540 of 5652 Old 03-22-2019, 06:26 PM
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Hey folks...

TL;DR - HDFury Linker vs UB820 upgrade?

Have had an RS400 for about a year now, professionally calibrated by Gregg Loewen. He set up a separate calibrated HDR custom picture mode with custom HDR gamma/EOTF and BT.2020 color space. So I assume my tone mapping is about as good as it’s gonna get.

It looks absolutely wonderful with SDR and HDR content, BUT the Gamma D gremlin annoys the living [email protected] out of me as does the long HDMI sync times when switching signal formats.

I have an Apple TV 4K which I use for all streaming, and the above noted annoyance is such that I have the ATV4K set to output 4K/60 SDR all the time. I feel the only thing I’m losing with streaming content is the wider color gamut (ATV seems to output 8bit REC709 color when set this way). But a small sacrifice for avoiding gamma D and 10 second black outs when the signal changes.

I also have a Sony X800 4K BDP. I think it has terrible HDR>SDR tone mapping, so I let 4K HDR discs play to my calibrated JVC. But then gamma D makes me batty. And when I start a movie I have to pause because the movie starts before the HDMI resyncs and I hear sound with no video.

I came across a deal on a HDFury Linker for $100 and was going to grab that to strip the HDR flag (solving Gamma D issue) but then I wondered if instead i should invest that into upgrading the Sony X800 to the Panny UB820. Then I could let the UB820 output SDR+BT.2020 with 4K HDR discs. No more gamma D, but I’m trading the custom calibrated tone mapping of an elite calibrator for the processing in the Panny UB820.

Since I’ve got the ATV4K working without issue for all my streaming needs, my primary concern is reducing annoyances with 4K HDR disc playback.

If it was a perfect world, I would output the same signal format to my PJ all the time so I never have to worry about switching picture mode or gamma or waiting for black screen to resync but I can’t afford a Lumagen. But maybe I could get close with the Linker’s capabilities or the UB820 processing?

Curious to get some feedback from fellow owners who’ve been down this road on the pros/cons of the two approaches? Seems like either way Gamma D is resolved, but is there anything I’m not considering which could tip the scales either way?
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post #5541 of 5652 Old 03-22-2019, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Hey folks...

TL;DR - HDFury Linker vs UB820 upgrade?

Have had an RS400 for about a year now, professionally calibrated by Gregg Loewen. He set up a separate calibrated HDR custom picture mode with custom HDR gamma/EOTF and BT.2020 color space. So I assume my tone mapping is about as good as it’s gonna get.

It looks absolutely wonderful with SDR and HDR content, BUT the Gamma D gremlin annoys the living [email protected] out of me as does the long HDMI sync times when switching signal formats.

I have an Apple TV 4K which I use for all streaming, and the above noted annoyance is such that I have the ATV4K set to output 4K/60 SDR all the time. I feel the only thing I’m losing with streaming content is the wider color gamut (ATV seems to output 8bit REC709 color when set this way). But a small sacrifice for avoiding gamma D and 10 second black outs when the signal changes.

I also have a Sony X800 4K BDP. I think it has terrible HDR>SDR tone mapping, so I let 4K HDR discs play to my calibrated JVC. But then gamma D makes me batty. And when I start a movie I have to pause because the movie starts before the HDMI resyncs and I hear sound with no video.

I came across a deal on a HDFury Linker for $100 and was going to grab that to strip the HDR flag (solving Gamma D issue) but then I wondered if instead i should invest that into upgrading the Sony X800 to the Panny UB820. Then I could let the UB820 output SDR+BT.2020 with 4K HDR discs. No more gamma D, but I’m trading the custom calibrated tone mapping of an elite calibrator for the processing in the Panny UB820.

Since I’ve got the ATV4K working without issue for all my streaming needs, my primary concern is reducing annoyances with 4K HDR disc playback.

If it was a perfect world, I would output the same signal format to my PJ all the time so I never have to worry about switching picture mode or gamma or waiting for black screen to resync but I can’t afford a Lumagen. But maybe I could get close with the Linker’s capabilities or the UB820 processing?

Curious to get some feedback from fellow owners who’ve been down this road on the pros/cons of the two approaches? Seems like either way Gamma D is resolved, but is there anything I’m not considering which could tip the scales either way?
I have the RS400, used with the Linker to allow DI use and prevent auto-switching to Gamma D. I have an older Philips BDP-7501, which outputs HDR, and have custom gamma curves that I've tweaked for my room. They're decent, but probably nowhere near what Gregg probably created for you.

But the 15-20 second sync problem remains, and I don't think either of your solutions would have much difference. If I put in a Blu-ray, there are various changes that require a new HDMI handshake, and there doesn't seem any way to avoid that. I tried to set my AVR to only output 4k/24Hz, but that didn't work. The menu systems are usually 60Hz, and it just passes that through, so that really doesn't help.

I would assume the same would be the case with the UB-820, so it wouldn't have any benefit as far as fewer or quicker handshakes. Whether or not you would prefer SDR-2020 from the UB-820, compared with HDR and your Custom Curves, you would just have to try and see.

Personally, if your curves are working very well, and you're happy with them with a variety of UHD content, then I would just spend the $100 for the Linker, and save perhaps for a next generation projector down the road.

My $.02 anyway.

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post #5542 of 5652 Old 03-22-2019, 08:25 PM
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I would assume the same would be the case with the UB-820, so it wouldn't have any benefit as far as fewer or quicker handshakes. Whether or not you would prefer SDR-2020 from the UB-820, compared with HDR and your Custom Curves, you would just have to try and see.
The UB820 reads the HDR metadata while the eshift JVCs don’t, so potentially the UB820 can do a better job with some source materials.
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post #5543 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 03:32 AM
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The UB820 reads the HDR metadata while the eshift JVCs don’t, so potentially the UB820 can do a better job with some source materials.
This is of course, true, and addresses the at least theoretical superiority of the UB-820 when used with JVC's prior to the newest generation, in terms of HDR Tone-Mapping.

What I was trying to say, though, is that if one has let's say 2 different custom curves, created by a knowledgeable and capable professional, to address 2 broad categories of HDR mastering, then the real-world difference might not be as great as expected. IIRC, I've read reports by owners who have preferred their custom curves over the UB-820's Tone-Mapping.

In my case, I am not a professional, nor have I really taken the time to fully max out my custom curves, so am strongly considering moving to the UB-820 (even if I don't upgrade my Projector), for exactly the reason you indicate. But as I said, if one had a pair of truly optimal curves, the benefit might not be as evident. That might be the case for the OP, based on Gregg's calibration.

But my main point for the OP, who will be using the RS400, and correct me if I'm overlooking something Dominic, is that I don't think the UB-820, or HDFury Linker, would improve anything in terms of the frequency of the long HDMI handshakes. As an RS400 owner like the OP, this is really tiresome and tedious, and I've not been able to figure out how to improve on this (other than adding a pricey Lumagen product!).

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post #5544 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 04:15 AM
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If I’d known 2 years ago of this gamma D and latency issue I would have waited before buying my RS400 for a PJ that did not have the issues. Truly a poor release by JVC, shame on them.
What recourse do us consumers have now? Sorry for sounding like a grumpy old man, well no I’m not.

I watch HDR from variety of sources, Xbox 1x UHDBR’s & Netflix, Apple 4K tv.

I should contact JVC and file a formal owners consumer complaint, if nothing else to have it documented.


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post #5545 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 04:37 AM
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This is of course, true, and addresses the at least theoretical superiority of the UB-820 when used with JVC's prior to the newest generation, in terms of HDR Tone-Mapping.

What I was trying to say, though, is that if one has let's say 2 different custom curves, created by a knowledgeable and capable professional, to address 2 broad categories of HDR mastering, then the real-world difference might not be as great as expected. IIRC, I've read reports by owners who have preferred their custom curves over the UB-820's Tone-Mapping.

In my case, I am not a professional, nor have I really taken the time to fully max out my custom curves, so am strongly considering moving to the UB-820 (even if I don't upgrade my Projector), for exactly the reason you indicate. But as I said, if one had a pair of truly optimal curves, the benefit might not be as evident. That might be the case for the OP, based on Gregg's calibration.
If I read the OP's post literally, he might have only a single curve, hence my comment regarding UB820's "dynamic tone mapping".

Quote:
But my main point for the OP, who will be using the RS400, and correct me if I'm overlooking something Dominic, is that I don't think the UB-820, or HDFury Linker, would improve anything in terms of the frequency of the long HDMI handshakes. As an RS400 owner like the OP, this is really tiresome and tedious, and I've not been able to figure out how to improve on this (other than adding a pricey Lumagen product!).
The UB820 has the option of converting everything to HDR, which would reduce the frequency of the handshakes.
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post #5546 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 05:12 AM
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The UB820 has the option of converting everything to HDR, which would reduce the frequency of the handshakes.
Interesting. Two follow-ups:

Is this desirable? It seems like it could be problematic trying to 'make' HDR out of SDR content

Does this include its own Menu system, and does it include stipulating 24 Hz vs 60 Hz? My impression is that many of the handshakes originate in many players' menu system being at 60 Hz, while the content is 24 Hz (not to mention that often 'coming attractions' seem to be either one or the other, which generates other handshakes, given that on some discs, you can't easily bypass them).

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post #5547 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for the great feedback so far.

To clarify I only have one custom HDR gamma preset that’s Gregg set up. It seems to look great with any HDR content I’ve played but I have no idea if the UB820’s more dynamic tone mapping would do a better job (eg with 1000nit vs 4000nit mastered content).

One thing I didn’t mention is that I do get annoyed by the extra fan noise from the PJ when running in high lamp mode for HDR. I find it plenty bright for SDR running low lamp with the iris stopped down a bit (started at -6 but have opened it up to -4 as I’ve put about 800 hours on the bulb). This makes me wonder if the UB820 outputting SDR.2020 would be preferable since I wouldn’t have to use high lamp mode... but would the HDR content then look too dull?

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post #5548 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 11:06 AM
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This makes me wonder if the UB820 outputting SDR.2020 would be preferable since I wouldn’t have to use high lamp mode... but would the HDR content then look too dull?
Here is how I understand this area:

This is an individual and subjective issue, depending on one's screen size and gain, throw distance, how black the room is, etc., as well as personal preferences. I've read of some who are happy with low lamp for HDR content using SDR-2020 while others find the need or prefer the added brightness obtained with High Lamp.

If you have a smaller, high-gain screen, pitch black room, low lamp may be sufficient.
If you have a large, lower-gain screen, a less black room, high lamp may be preferable.

Keep in mind, that even with "SDR-2020" this is simply Tone-mapping of the original HDR into a range that your projector is able to display, being done in the player, rather than in the projector. This is *not* the same as 'regular' SDR from conventional Blu-rays. Many use the term "SDR-Lite" to reflect that it really is something not quite full bore HDR, since our projectors can't handle this, but also not simply 'regular' SDR.

So if you find low lamp with your custom curve satisfactory, it will remain so with SDR-2020 from the UB-820.
Conversely, if you find you need high lamp with your custom curve to get the highlight pop you want, you'll still need it with the UB-820.

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post #5549 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 02:15 PM
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Hey folks...

TL;DR - HDFury Linker vs UB820 upgrade?

Have had an RS400 for about a year now, professionally calibrated by Gregg Loewen. He set up a separate calibrated HDR custom picture mode with custom HDR gamma/EOTF and BT.2020 color space. So I assume my tone mapping is about as good as it’s gonna get.

It looks absolutely wonderful with SDR and HDR content, BUT the Gamma D gremlin annoys the living [email protected] out of me as does the long HDMI sync times when switching signal formats.

I have an Apple TV 4K which I use for all streaming, and the above noted annoyance is such that I have the ATV4K set to output 4K/60 SDR all the time. I feel the only thing I’m losing with streaming content is the wider color gamut (ATV seems to output 8bit REC709 color when set this way). But a small sacrifice for avoiding gamma D and 10 second black outs when the signal changes.

I also have a Sony X800 4K BDP. I think it has terrible HDR>SDR tone mapping, so I let 4K HDR discs play to my calibrated JVC. But then gamma D makes me batty. And when I start a movie I have to pause because the movie starts before the HDMI resyncs and I hear sound with no video.

I came across a deal on a HDFury Linker for $100 and was going to grab that to strip the HDR flag (solving Gamma D issue) but then I wondered if instead i should invest that into upgrading the Sony X800 to the Panny UB820. Then I could let the UB820 output SDR+BT.2020 with 4K HDR discs. No more gamma D, but I’m trading the custom calibrated tone mapping of an elite calibrator for the processing in the Panny UB820.

Since I’ve got the ATV4K working without issue for all my streaming needs, my primary concern is reducing annoyances with 4K HDR disc playback.

If it was a perfect world, I would output the same signal format to my PJ all the time so I never have to worry about switching picture mode or gamma or waiting for black screen to resync but I can’t afford a Lumagen. But maybe I could get close with the Linker’s capabilities or the UB820 processing?

Curious to get some feedback from fellow owners who’ve been down this road on the pros/cons of the two approaches? Seems like either way Gamma D is resolved, but is there anything I’m not considering which could tip the scales either way?


I think the better option would actually be setting the ATV to output 4K HDR at 60 and use your calibrated HDR curve. The ATV does a good job converting SDR to HDR and will obviously be ready to send HDR when the content has it. If you are using the linker to strip the HDR flag then the JVC should never switch to the dreaded gamma D but will always display all of the HDR when available so you would never miss out on the wider color gamut. Finally, you wouldn’t need to make any changes for UHD disc playback. The only time you would need to make any changes would be for SDR disc playback, SDR gaming and regular old TV. This won’t solve the syncing delays since any frame rate change will trigger it but it won’t be triggered by dynamic range changes. I need to get myself a linker!


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post #5550 of 5652 Old 03-23-2019, 02:55 PM
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Curious to get some feedback from fellow owners who’ve been down this road on the pros/cons of the two approaches? Seems like either way Gamma D is resolved, but is there anything I’m not considering which could tip the scales either way?
Holy smokes, its batpig! First let me say I've followed your Denon work for over a decade. In fact, you were probably the reason I joined this forum. Thank you very much for your contributions. I'm glad to have the opportunity to give back, if in only a small way.

Short version: Buy the UB820. Calibrated Gamma D is basically a super shiny turd. Your only regret will be wondering why you waited so long (the only caveat being possibly getting the UB9000 if you plan to get a NX5/NX7 projector as apparently there is an UB9000 HDR mode designed to communicate with the NX projectors but that function hasn't been reviewed or tested yet and that specific function doesn't work with the older RSxxx projectors). Also keep in mind, you are still getting the benefits of the color and gamma points calibration, you are not throwing out the entire calibration.

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This makes me wonder if the UB820 outputting SDR.2020 would be preferable since I wouldn’t have to use high lamp mode... but would the HDR content then look too dull?
With the UB820 & SDR2020 your projector is already using the full range and isn't leaving any brightness or color "on the table." For example, "100% white" is the exact same thing whether you are in HDR or SDR, HD or 4K. I used to always use high lamp with HDR and now almost always just stay in low lamp mode for everything except 3D.

I cried foul on "HDR" with these projectors a long time ago and grew increasingly frustrated at varying levels of brightness based on title, looking at darkness and everybody else pretending it looked good. On some titles, the projector would make 99% of the movie half brightness just to make once scene brilliantly bright (How do you make a flash twice as bright than the rest of the move? Make the rest of the move half as bright).

The loaded premade Gamma curves (directions in my guide below) made things significantly better but occasionally I'd still hit an unpleasantly dark title. The UB820 normalizes everything and almost completely removes this issue. Basically, the UB820 will make your 4K Blu-ray discs behave exactly like HD Blu-ray discs, just with more color and resolution. You will be very happy, I promise.

I made a JVC 4K QuickStart Guide for newcomers, I suggest you take a look as it will be a good refresher and I talk about loading premade gamma curves, which you'll want if you are streaming HDR content. It needs a bit of updating specifically for the UB820, but all you'll need to do is turn on SDR2020 in the UB820 settings. This change means the projector will not see a "HDR" signal so it will not switch to Gamma D. You will need to set projector to Gamma 2.4 and will still use the BT2020 Color Profile. I set my user modes up for quick switching: User1-HD, User2-4K, User3-3D.

I've heard some people having trouble with HDR content on the ATV as it would resend some signal to the projector frequently retripping the Gamma D switch and this would happen several times during regular playback. The only work around I've heard for this is the HD Fury products. If you are just watching HD you probably haven't noticed this and if you watch HDR on the ATV, you must be one of the lucky ones.

The long sync times are just something you have to live with. It seems very basic, but pressing pause until you see picture is the only way to keep the frustration at bay.

Once you see what a 4K disc looks like on a UB820 in SDR2020 with Gamma 2.4 & BT2020 Color Profile, you'll be blown away and will never ever return to Gamma D. You will seriously think you bought a new projector.
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