Official JVC DLA-RS400 (X550/X5000) Owner's Thread - Page 191 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5701 of 5739 Old 08-22-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Yes, I have the Panasonic not sending the separate HDR signal, so no gamma trigger.

What type of iris adjustments are you guys doing for 4k vs 1080? I’m on auto 2 with the itis knocked down a couple notches.
I think you will find a large range among users for this one, depending on how bright the image is, which of course depends on screen size, screen gain, throw distance and room interaction. Some like auto iris, some can't stand it. My setup is similar to yours. I still like Auto 2, but I open my manual iris a bit (I have an RS 500). This is really a matter of preference. There's no "best for everyone" here.

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post #5702 of 5739 Old 08-22-2019, 02:56 PM
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Understood, but generally speaking, for 4k, folks are going with a higher (darker) gamma and then opening the iris a bit and cranking up the HDR Optimizer in the Panasonic? Makes sense I guess, but then the tricky part is I don’t have any 4k test patterns to set brightness and contrast with.

Is there a color profile on the JVC that is the equivalent of “Native” on Samsung tvs? In other words, it takes the color range the projector is capable of displaying and fits it within whatever color req it is receiving from the source. So the brightest red, as an example, will always be the same whether 1080 or 4k.
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post #5703 of 5739 Old 08-22-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
Understood, but generally speaking, for 4k, folks are going with a higher (darker) gamma and then opening the iris a bit and cranking up the HDR Optimizer in the Panasonic? Makes sense I guess, but then the tricky part is I don’t have any 4k test patterns to set brightness and contrast with.
You can download the Mehanik HDR10 test patterns here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...terns-set.html

Quote:
Is there a color profile on the JVC that is the equivalent of “Native” on Samsung tvs? In other words, it takes the color range the projector is capable of displaying and fits it within whatever color req it is receiving from the source. So the brightest red, as an example, will always be the same whether 1080 or 4k.
That would not make sense. Rec709 and P3 reds are not supposed to look the same.
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post #5704 of 5739 Old 08-22-2019, 04:24 PM
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If a display is capable of a broader range of colors than 709, why would we want to limit the display to that range with material that is limited to that range? Native would extrapolate and broaden the 709 limits into the capabilities of the display.

“Not the way the director intended it”

perhaps, but,

“Wow, that looks so much better!”
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post #5705 of 5739 Old 08-22-2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
If a display is capable of a broader range of colors than 709, why would we want to limit the display to that range with material that is limited to that range? Native would extrapolate and broaden the 709 limits into the capabilities of the display.

“Not the way the director intended it”

perhaps, but,

“Wow, that looks so much better!”
As far as colours go, more is not always better. Nothing to do with "director's intent" as such. Oversaturated colours hurt my eyes, especially sunburnt skin tones, neon green grass, etc. Note that doing what you describe does not just “extend” the gamut, it will also make all in-gamut colours more saturated than their true, natural colours.

Of course you're perfectly entitled to your preference.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 08-23-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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post #5706 of 5739 Old 08-22-2019, 10:40 PM
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It also affects contrast, over saturation will increase intrascene contrast too much and create blown out looking colors and what not.
Some people will start looking like neon vampires as well. Extra saturation is not always better, that's for sure. It's a balancing game.

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post #5707 of 5739 Old 08-23-2019, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
You know, this is going to cost you two steak dinners.
Sad news to report my friend JIMP and I never were able to get the rs400 updated. He was shortly diagnosed with brain cancer and passed away. I would give anything to buy you those two steak dinners.
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post #5708 of 5739 Old 08-23-2019, 08:09 PM
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Sad news to report my friend JIMP and I never were able to get the rs400 updated. He was shortly diagnosed with brain cancer and passed away. I would give anything to buy you those two steak dinners.
Life is precious. Friends and Family matter more than anything else, cherish them while they are here so you do not regret it when they are not.
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post #5709 of 5739 Old 08-25-2019, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
So I just set up my Panasonic UB820 to the recommended settings, but it only seems to be able to put out a 1080p 24fps 12 bit YUV color space picture. I can’t seem to get it to send 4k.

I have 4k eshift set to on and original resolution set to Auto. In the setup hdmi menu, when I try to force 4k, it will do a test and revert back to 1080p.

Could this be a limitation of my 45’ monoprice cabernet active cable, or do I likely have something set wrong? Panasonic to Marant SR8012, Marantz to projector.


Edit: Hmm, when I connect the Panasonic directly to the 45’ monoprice cabernet, bypassing the Marantz, it goes into 4k 60hz 4:4:4 instantly. So it seems the issue is some setting or lack of pass through in the Marantz 8012.

Edit 2: After having the Panasonic directly connected and having success with 4k 60hz 4:4:4, then powering down and unplugging everything and routing back through the receiver, everything now works perfectly. Strange, but I’ll take it!

Edit 3: So when I turn zone 2 on in the Marantz to pass the original hdmi audio to my secondary receiver, an Onkyo TX-NR3010 that extracts front heights, wides, and two more subwoofer channels, I lose the 4k image and get a blank screen. When I turn zine 2 off, it comes back on in 4k. More work to do.
The Onkyo is HDMI 1.4 and does not have HDCP 2.2. It can't pass a copy protected 4K signal.
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post #5710 of 5739 Old 08-25-2019, 03:56 PM
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@Bleekster You don't need to load new firmware, at most you'll need to load the BT2020 color profile if your projector doesn't already have it. The process is not that difficult, you can do it!

This is my full JVC & 4K QuickStart Guide (clicky)

This is how you configure the UB820 & RS400 for 4K (clicky)



An abbreviated version...the FASTEST way to going with 4K discs:

1) Make certain all your HDMI cables are Certified Premium. I recommend only these cables (clicky).

2) Install the JVC Software on your computer.

3) Download the JVC BT2020 Color Profile.

4) Follow this JVC Import Procedure Guide to load the BT2020 Color Profile.

5) Configure your UB820 & RS400 with these settings (clicky).

(Step 3 & 4 are from here)



That is all there is to it. It may seem difficult but it is not. This abbreviated process will take you less than an hour if you follow each step and read as you go. If you try to read everything before you start you will get confused.
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post #5711 of 5739 Old 08-25-2019, 08:15 PM
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So it looks like with 4k HDR and gamma curve 2.4, low lamp, BT2020, lens aperture on auto 2 and fully open, I have to raise brightness to +10 to display proper black levels. Same with other folks?

Result is slightly washed out black levels compared to what I’m used to.
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post #5712 of 5739 Old 08-25-2019, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
So it looks like with 4k HDR and gamma curve 2.4, low lamp, BT2020, lens aperture on auto 2 and fully open, I have to raise brightness to +10 to display proper black levels. Same with other folks?

Result is slightly washed out black levels compared to what I’m used to.
If black is washed out then the black level is not properly set, almost by definition.
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post #5713 of 5739 Old 08-25-2019, 10:17 PM
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Can someone else share their calibrated 4k settings? I don’t think I’m missing something, but I could be.

I dropped the brightness to 7 to make the image look better, even though that is resulting in some crushed blacks.
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post #5714 of 5739 Old 08-25-2019, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
So it looks like with 4k HDR and gamma curve 2.4, low lamp, BT2020, lens aperture on auto 2 and fully open, I have to raise brightness to +10 to display proper black levels. Same with other folks?

Result is slightly washed out black levels compared to what I’m used to.
Just to check, are you using my UB820 recommended settings or something else? I ask because "technically" HDR & Gamma 2.4 do not go with each other. Semantics I know, but I want to be certain you've got it configured properly.

SDR/BT.2020 = Gamma 2.4.
HDR/BT.2020 = Custom Gamma Curves.
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post #5715 of 5739 Old 08-26-2019, 04:42 AM
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99% sure, but I will recheck tonight.

What do you have the HDR10+ setting as, on or off?

What brightness level are you using - assuming you attempted to calibrate - to get the shade above reference black to just barely be visible? This is with all the other 4k settings you have mentioned.
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post #5716 of 5739 Old 08-26-2019, 05:59 PM
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The 4k test patterns that were linked to a few posts back - they are HDR, and i put them on a usb drive, which bypassed the disc playing of the Panasonic, so it must have triggered HDR in the JVC. I guess i need to keep the brightness and contrast the same on the 4k BT2020 settings as I do the calibrated 1080 Standard color settings.
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post #5717 of 5739 Old 08-26-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
The 4k test patterns that were linked to a few posts back - they are HDR, and i put them on a usb drive, which bypassed the disc playing of the Panasonic, so it must have triggered HDR in the JVC. I guess i need to keep the brightness and contrast the same on the 4k BT2020 settings as I do the calibrated 1080 Standard color settings.
That's what I did. Before the UB820 & SDR2020 I was deep in the weeds of making custom gamma curves with a light meter and test patterns...setting black level and white level...it was a real pain. The result? SDR2020 on the UB820 is massively better and the best my projector has ever looked. My config is at the bottom of my UB820 & RS400 Guide, but it's very simple: Just BT2020, Gamma 2.4, Iris 0 (I don't like Auto) and Low Lamp (High looks better). Everything else in the picture settings is at default. I didn't tweak any brightness, contrast or other picture sliders.
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post #5718 of 5739 Old 08-26-2019, 08:47 PM
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I hear you, but at an absolute minimum, I have to have contrast and brightness calibrated to ensure blacks and whites are showing the full range.
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post #5719 of 5739 Old 08-26-2019, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
I hear you, but at an absolute minimum, I have to have contrast and brightness calibrated to ensure blacks and whites are showing the full range.
I don’t disagree, but I’ve got $20 that says you can’t see a difference from your seat during motion.

I should look into dialing in those last few settings, but it’s immensely more work for a maybe 1% better image. I just spun through the JVC Software Color + Gamma Calibration and called it a day.

If you come up with a good way to do whatever it is you want to do and make a perfect step-by-step guide, be sure to post it.

BTW, it’s not often I see another Boston VR3 owner in the wild. I’ve explored options for replacement and the cost of speakers I like better are SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive.
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post #5720 of 5739 Old 08-27-2019, 03:49 AM
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Oh wow, tell me about it. I never expected them to become my forever speakers when I got them 14 years ago, I assumed I’d replace them with something more expensive that sounded better, but in head to head comparisons, they just don’t ever lose. Just recently bought/built and compared them to DIYSG Titan 15s and the Bostons won handily, so I had to sell the Titans. The only speaker I’d have any interest left in comparing them to is Revel 228Be for 7x the price.
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post #5721 of 5739 Old 08-28-2019, 08:58 AM
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Just got my UB820 last night, and am having a hard time locating the IR sensor on the unit. Having the flip down bezel is not making it any easier to install the IR flasher either (the unit is in a cabinet not in the line of sight of the seating positions). Is the sensor on the lower right or lower left of the unit (facing the front of the unit)?

Sorry if this sounds like a total newbie question, but I tried both ends and neither seem to work. The flasher was working find on my OPPO which this is replacing. All searches on the topic have revealed no useful info
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post #5722 of 5739 Old 08-28-2019, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by curtisG View Post
Just got my UB820 last night, and am having a hard time locating the IR sensor on the unit. Having the flip down bezel is not making it any easier to install the IR flasher either (the unit is in a cabinet not in the line of sight of the seating positions). Is the sensor on the lower right or lower left of the unit (facing the front of the unit)?

Sorry if this sounds like a total newbie question, but I tried both ends and neither seem to work. The flasher was working find on my OPPO which this is replacing. All searches on the topic have revealed no useful info
When all fails, read the manual

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post #5723 of 5739 Old 08-30-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
A further note: the RS400 has a nasty habit of switching automatically to Gamma D when detecting HDR. The easiest way to deal with this is to set the UB820 to output SDR/BT2020, at least for watching discs.
How do you stop it from switching to Gamma D with non-UB820 sources? Or is it possible?

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post #5724 of 5739 Old 08-30-2019, 12:15 PM
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How do you stop it from switching to Gamma D with non-UB820 sources? Or is it possible?
You need an HDFury device (e.g., the Linker) that blocks the HDR flag. Otherwise you have to manually select the custom gamma every time the projector switches to Gamma D. With some devices you only need to do that once for each movie, which is not too bad, but some other devices may do that much more frequently.

BTW, one of the links in my signature shows how to make Gamma D “less bad”.
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post #5725 of 5739 Old 08-30-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You need an HDFury device (e.g., the Linker) that blocks the HDR flag. Otherwise you have to manually select the custom gamma every time the projector switches to Gamma D. With some devices you only need to do that once for each movie, which is not too bad, but some other devices may do that much more frequently.

BTW, one of the links in my signature shows how to make Gamma D “less bad”.
Thanks, Dominic. This has been vexing me for two years...

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post #5726 of 5739 Old 08-31-2019, 08:47 AM
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JVC should be ashamed of themselves for not offering a firmware update to fix the Gamma D situation. They could have easily had it switch to Custom 1 instead and loaded it with the JVC curve from the x20 models.

Think of all the RSx00 owners NOT on this forum suffering with Gamma D. Pitiful.
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post #5727 of 5739 Old 09-01-2019, 06:37 AM
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JVC should be ashamed of themselves for not offering a firmware update to fix the Gamma D situation. They could have easily had it switch to Custom 1 instead and loaded it with the JVC curve from the x20 models.

Think of all the RSx00 owners NOT on this forum suffering with Gamma D. Pitiful.
I agree 100 percent with you on this Dreamliner, it's pretty pathetic that they didn't provide and easy fix for this. Has anybody ever petitioned JVC about a firmware update for it?
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post #5728 of 5739 Old 09-01-2019, 03:35 PM
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Hi guys need your helps!
I am purchased today the HDfury Integral 2, to split the source to Tv and the projector and also to solve the hdr gamma D problem and enable the dynamic iris for hdr.
So how can I do it?
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post #5729 of 5739 Old 09-02-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
JVC should be ashamed of themselves for not offering a firmware update to fix the Gamma D situation. They could have easily had it switch to Custom 1 instead and loaded it with the JVC curve from the x20 models.

Think of all the RSx00 owners NOT on this forum suffering with Gamma D. Pitiful.
Here here!

Costs them nothing.

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post #5730 of 5739 Old 09-07-2019, 04:06 PM
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Someone try the JVC MACROS with the HDfury??
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...2586?page=2725
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