Official JVC DLA-RS400 (X550/X5000) Owner's Thread - Page 193 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5761 of 5802 Old 10-13-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
To each their own for sure. So I assume keeping it in bt2020 is allowing the full color bandwidth capability of the projector to be utilized even if the disc wasn’t encoded to use it. So greens are greener, reds are redder, etc.
If the movie was encoded with red at 100% saturation in rec709 and you set the projector to BT2020, it will show the red as red as the projector can go yes.

All colors will be more saturated than they are "meant" to be if you have the display in BT2020 mode for rec709 input.
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post #5762 of 5802 Old 10-13-2019, 10:55 PM
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What is the easiest way to approximate a slight bump in color temperature? With a recalibration after a new lamp install, the best I can get is 6388K.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Thanks!
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post #5763 of 5802 Old 10-13-2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryW View Post
What is the easiest way to approximate a slight bump in color temperature? With a recalibration after a new lamp install, the best I can get is 6388K.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


What are you measuring it with?

You adjust color temp with the gain controls mostly.
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post #5764 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
What are you measuring it with?

You adjust color temp with the gain controls mostly.

Thanks. I'm just using the JVC calibration software and a Spyder4PRO.

Thanks!
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post #5765 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryW View Post
Thanks. I'm just using the JVC calibration software and a Spyder4PRO.
You can use calibration software such as HCFR to further adjust the colour temperature, or even the JVC calibration software itself in the “Log only” mode.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-14-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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post #5766 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You can use calibration software such as HCFR to further adjust the colour temperature, or even the JVC calibration sofawate itself in the “Log only” mode.

Thanks!!

Thanks!
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post #5767 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You can use calibration software such as HCFR to further adjust the colour temperature, or even the JVC calibration software itself in the “Log only” mode.

Without lots of trial and error, is there a specific method for tweaking the gains and then remeasuring with log only every time? Should I just reduce the red gain by one notch each time and then remeasure? Not sure I have the bandwidth the learn HCFR right now...

Thanks!
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post #5768 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryW View Post
Without lots of trial and error, is there a specific method for tweaking the gains and then remeasuring with log only every time? Should I just reduce the red gain by one notch each time and then remeasure?
Autocal is not designed for interactive adjustments so unfortunately that's what you need to do. Reduce red by (say) 5 clicks and check the change in colour temperature. This gives you an idea the sensitivity of the the colour temperature to the gain adjustments. Then repeat. It shouldn't take more than two or three runs to get to the optimum setting.

Note that the Colour Temperature does not give you the "full picture". You also need to look at the diagram to make sure the "cluster" stays close to the centre of the red circle. If they drift upwards, reduce green.

Note, however, 6388K is already very close, given the uncertainty of the meter etc. Also, each of the 8 or 9 points can have a slightly different colour temperature; autocal only shows two points (50% and 100%) numerically.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 10-15-2019 at 06:30 AM.
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post #5769 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 05:30 PM
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Exclamation

Warning for all Autocal users!

I discovered a major bug in the RS400/X5000 firmware's test pattern generator in combination with the Autocal software.
(And I bet, other models are affected too!)

What happened?
Autocal showed me perfect calibration, gamma and color temperature spot on.
But in fact, after a check with HCFR, it was FAR off!



After decoding the TCP communication between Autocal and the projector, I was able to faster check, when this error accours, and when not.

I finnaly found the reason:
Even though, the Autocal manual states that just "any" video signal must be fed while running Autocal (4K, 1080p or 720p), this error accours when feeding 4K/50 or 4K/60! (not with 4K/24)

With this finding and after correct Autocal calibration, I was able to reproduce this error at will.
Feeding the projector ("in the background") with a 4K/50 or 4K/60 signal (regardless of the color encoding and bit depth 8/10/12) during Autocal, the internally by the projector generated test patterns are totally wrong in color and brightness.
With 4K/24 or any 1080p signal, everything is okay. Color enconding also has no impact.

After correct calibration, the opposite happened. When feeding 4K/50 or 4K/60, Autocal measured a huge deviation that was not there!
4K 60 Hz: color temp too low, gamma too high

4K 50 Hz: color temp too high, gamma too low


If someone would save these measurements into the projector, he would have totally "decalibrated" it, even though Autocal would show a perfect result after a check.

So make sure to feed a 1080p signal while running Autocal!
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Last edited by Wishmaster; 10-14-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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post #5770 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Note, however, 6388K is already very close, given the uncertainty of the meter etc. Also, each of the 8 or 9 points can have a slightly different colour temperature; autocal only shows two points (50% and 100%) numerically.
Thanks! That is very helpful. Maybe one more reason to learn HCFR... Hope it's not too difficult.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Thanks!
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post #5771 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryW View Post
Thanks! That is very helpful. Maybe one more reason to learn HCFR... Hope it's not too difficult.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
HCFR is really easy IMO. I learned it just by poking around. I didn't really read or follow any guide and I am new to calibration since march 2019.
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post #5772 of 5802 Old 10-14-2019, 09:14 PM
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Does anyone know Mike Garrett phone #. I need a call 304-421-5777. I need a couple questions answered. Thanks in advance
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post #5773 of 5802 Old 10-15-2019, 08:11 PM
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My last house of 14 years i did the whole theater and installed everything. Just moved into a new house and decided to have an av company install everything for me. I already found issues with the screen install which i posted on another thread but now i am wondering if how they installed the projector might be an issue. When i installed it i removed the 4 feet and attached the ceiling mount to those holes. they attached mount to the two rear holes and 2 different holes in front. Is it ok to mount to these two holes? are they made to support the weight of the projector?
thanks
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post #5774 of 5802 Old 10-15-2019, 09:27 PM
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...When i installed it i removed the 4 feet and attached the ceiling mount to those holes. they attached mount to the two rear holes and 2 different holes in front. Is it ok to mount to these two holes? are they made to support the weight of the projector?
thanks
According to the JVC manual those holes are NOT meant to support the projector. My projector is ceiling mounted, and without removing it I can't be sure what these holes are. You need someone with a shelf mount to look at them. I searched for teardown images to see if I could find something, but I couldn't.

Your photo is a bit fuzzy, but it appears that these guys used generic tv mount spacers and some machine screws they had on the truck to drive into those holes. Apparently the universal mount they used does not have arms that reach the proper holes, so they just fudged it.

Who knows what those holes are for? They could be for supporting something in, or to the chassis, or for nothing more than attaching the bottom cover. I would make very sure that driving screws into those holes didn't do any damage to the projector.

Until you learn something to the contrary, I would assume that neither your projector or anything underneath it are safe. You might consider removing it.

Before you do, or have them back out, take better detailed photos to document what they did.

Good luck and keep us posted. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong and these guys know something I don't.

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post #5775 of 5802 Old 10-21-2019, 02:54 PM
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JVC DLA-550 + Roku Ultra SDR BT2020 help


All,

I'm able to take out the HDR and keep the BT2020 color space on my Oppo 203, though I was curious if anyone has been able to do the same with the Roku Ultra. I'm able to access the 4K HDR30hz setting on my display, though it washes out the colors on my Netflix app and some commercials on the ESPN app. I'm able to get a fine picture with 4K 60Hz, though I'd love to retain the BT2020 color space if possible.



Any advice and apologies if someone has addressed this prior. Thank you,
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post #5776 of 5802 Old 10-21-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thatguy1985 View Post
JVC DLA-550 + Roku Ultra SDR BT2020 help
All,

I'm able to take out the HDR and keep the BT2020 color space on my Oppo 203, though I was curious if anyone has been able to do the same with the Roku Ultra. I'm able to access the 4K HDR30hz setting on my display, though it washes out the colors on my Netflix app and some commercials on the ESPN app. I'm able to get a fine picture with 4K 60Hz, though I'd love to retain the BT2020 color space if possible.
In my experience (using AppleTV 4K) this isn't possible with streaming services. If you turn off HDR then the streaming client will request the SDR stream which will be Rec.709 not BT.2020 -- the streaming boxes aren't streaming HDR and then tone-mapping to SDR on the fly, they are just pulling the SDR stream directly.

I think the only way to do this would be to stream HDR and then have a downstream device convert to SDR/BT.2020. Is it possible you could do this by running through the HDMI input of the Oppo?

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post #5777 of 5802 Old 10-21-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
In my experience (using AppleTV 4K) this isn't possible with streaming services. If you turn off HDR then the streaming client will request the SDR stream which will be Rec.709 not BT.2020 -- the streaming boxes aren't streaming HDR and then tone-mapping to SDR on the fly, they are just pulling the SDR stream directly.

I think the only way to do this would be to stream HDR and then have a downstream device convert to SDR/BT.2020. Is it possible you could do this by running through the HDMI input of the Oppo?

I could actually...which is something I may ultimately do. I wonder if it would be overkill, however, due to the fact that the bulk of the content I would watch would be sports via YouTube TV and ESPN app (which technically aren't in 4K or BT2020 anyway). I don't believe that the Oppo would convert 709 to BT2020, but only downconvert the HDR from Netflix/Amazon Prime from HDR to SDR. If my thought process is accurate there.



Thanks again for your assistance,
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post #5778 of 5802 Old 10-21-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by thatguy1985 View Post
I could actually...which is something I may ultimately do. I wonder if it would be overkill, however, due to the fact that the bulk of the content I would watch would be sports via YouTube TV and ESPN app (which technically aren't in 4K or BT2020 anyway). I don't believe that the Oppo would convert 709 to BT2020, but only downconvert the HDR from Netflix/Amazon Prime from HDR to SDR. If my thought process is accurate there.



Thanks again for your assistance,
The HDFury Linker can filter out the HDR flag:
https://www.hdfury.com/product/linke...600mhz-scaler/

I use it with my DLA-X5000 to prevent autoswitching to Gamma D and to be able to use the Dynamic Iris which is disabled when HDR content ist detected.
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post #5779 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
The HDFury Linker can filter out the HDR flag:
https://www.hdfury.com/product/linke...600mhz-scaler/

I use it with my DLA-X5000 to prevent autoswitching to Gamma D and to be able to use the Dynamic Iris which is disabled when HDR content ist detected.



Thanks Wishmaster! To confirm, you're saying that I would be able to eliminate the HDR flag on Netflix/Amazon content and retain the BT2020 color space - instead of using my Oppo 203. HDFury makes some great products and I had my eye on them before I bought my Oppo.


Thanks again!
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post #5780 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 12:04 PM
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Let's be clear here though, eliminating the HDR flag is NOT the same thing as converting to SDR/BT.2020.

If the only goal is to avoid the Gamma D switching / enabled the auto-iris, then turning off the HDR flag will do that. But the tone mapping will still be done in the JVC, so if you haven't had it calibrated or loaded a custom gamma it's not going to improve anything.

If the goal is to have the tone mapping done upstream so the JVC doesn't have to handle it (and can use a standard 2.4 Gamma) then disabling the HDR flag won't help.
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post #5781 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Let's be clear here though, eliminating the HDR flag is NOT the same thing as converting to SDR/BT.2020.

If the only goal is to avoid the Gamma D switching / enabled the auto-iris, then turning off the HDR flag will do that. But the tone mapping will still be done in the JVC, so if you haven't had it calibrated or loaded a custom gamma it's not going to improve anything.

If the goal is to have the tone mapping done upstream so the JVC doesn't have to handle it (and can use a standard 2.4 Gamma) then disabling the HDR flag won't help.



Thanks batpig, that's what I was getting at. Overall, it seems like it may be easier to just utilize streaming Netflix/Amazon content via my PS4 instead of the Roku (or going through the Oppo input HDMI). The Roku may just be best served for 4K/60 instead of trying to force HDR and figure out a workaround.


Thanks again all for your input!

Last edited by thatguy1985; 10-22-2019 at 12:14 PM. Reason: update text
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post #5782 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 12:28 PM
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batpig is absolutely right.

I was recently also contronted on how to handle the damn HDR stuff.
fact 1: HDR content was never made for (consumer/home) projectors, and we don't get the material that was mastered for cinemas, but only the HDR content mastered for TVs.
fact 2: There are several HDR>SDR converters out there. Software and hardware, from free tools to $10k+ boxes. But all have one thing in common: none of these solutions does a perfect job.
Keep in mind, that SDR BluRays are mastered and converted from HDR by professionals by hand, scene by scene or even frame by frame!

MadVR is a very good option if you use an HTPC, as it's free and does a great (but still no perfect) job on converting HDR to SDR.
But as I use an nvidia shield as my main player, this was not an option for me. And I don't want to spend that money just for HDR content and mess around with configuration and controlling the HTPC.

So I only spent 100 bucks on a used HDFury linker, had it running in 5 minutes and at least it gives me the option to use my own gamma curve and the dynamic iris.
I am okay with that as long as all other solutions cost a lot more but also don't deliver perfect results.

HDR>SDR convertion options:
- "offline" conversion and reencoding the file
- Oppo 203 HDMI-In
- HTPC with madVR Plugin
- upcoming madVR Envy Box (base model $4,500, pro model $10k)
- new JVC N Series projectors with the new and very good frame-adapt-HDR function
- HDFury 4K Diva with HDR>SDR conversion ($449 MSRP)
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post #5783 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 02:06 PM
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FYI:

my question to HDFury:
Quote:
can your Diva convert HDR to SDR while maintaining the 4K resolution and BT2020 color space?
Or is it just possible to convert from 4K BT2020 HDR to 1080p Rec709 SDR?
their answer:
Quote:
DIVA HDR>SDR output is always 1080p.

The only devices in the world that can do 4K HDR > 4K SDR are:

Lumagen radiance pro (7000$) and oppo203(1000$)

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post #5784 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 02:19 PM
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They forgot about the Panasonic UB players
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post #5785 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 02:21 PM
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But they don't have an HDMI input. Only UHD disc material can be converted to SDR.
Or am I wrong?

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post #5786 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 02:30 PM
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Oh, gotcha, if that statement was strictly in the context of EXTERNAL sources (like an AppleTV or Roku box) then yeah. The Panny UB players can do it with internal content (discs).

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post #5787 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 03:02 PM
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Is the Pana capable of doing the conversion also with mkv material on SD card or network?

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post #5788 of 5802 Old 10-22-2019, 05:33 PM
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I’d pay $1000 for a HDMI I/O box that does what the UB820 does for discs (SDR2020, HDR Optimizer, etc). If the UB9000 had an HDMI input, I’d have one.

I have a feeling Panasonic could make it relatively cheap since 90% of the R&D was already done for the UB820. They just have to modify the signal source from disc to HDMI. I bet they’d sell a lot of them.

As it stands, I’ll likely suffer with curves for when I have to HDR stream until I get a NX projector. I stream HDR very rarely so it isn’t much of an issue. Curves are better than Gamma D but still a big letdown from how great discs look on the UB820 with SDR2020 & HDR Optimizer.
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post #5789 of 5802 Old 10-27-2019, 09:50 AM
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The jvc autocal make also calibration for brightness and contrast?
If not please send my some good guide
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post #5790 of 5802 Old 11-05-2019, 04:29 AM
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Hello!
Has anyone been able to change the original bulb (PK-L2312U) for a Ushio NSHA265JK Bulb? I wanted to know if it was easy to change it and if the new one gives the same result as the original one.


Thanks!

JVC DLA-RS400; Denon AVR-X1500H; RX 1080 ti; Dynavoice fan and MadVR
Elite screen 137", Black Cave.
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