BenQ X12000 : 4K DLP projector with HLD LED - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 516 Old 10-11-2018, 09:45 PM
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Maybe the problem is the receiver or the cable that's running from your bluray player to the receiver? I would try bypassing the receiver and connect directly to the projector using your Concord cable to isolate the issue.

Anyone else has any thoughts?
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post #422 of 516 Old 10-11-2018, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldek View Post
I suspect this means my "Concord" brand amplified 10 metre HDMI 2.0 cable from the receiver up through the walls and roof to the projector isn't coping. Yes, it's connected in the right direction.
Yup sounds like hdmi cable issues. At that length have you tried fibre optic like ruipro? Those seem to he only ones consistently succeasful for 4k over 25ft.
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post #423 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 07:39 AM
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Review: x12000H from a Chinese site. Translated below


Reviewer claims 110% DCI-P3 coverage in HDR mode.



https://translate.google.com/transla...95&prev=search
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post #424 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 07:56 AM
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Good to hear. Hopefully BenQ has a winner here.



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Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
Review: x12000H from a Chinese site. Translated below


Reviewer claims 110% DCI-P3 coverage in HDR mode.



https://translate.google.com/transla...95&prev=search
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post #425 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 08:15 AM
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it looks like it will need a good greyscale calibration, 10, 70-100 is off

they should be able to fix that in firmware before releasing it


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post #426 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it looks like it will need a good greyscale calibration, 10, 70-100 is off

they should be able to fix that in firmware before releasing it
I cant read the text below the chart but prior in the review sounds like they did some tinkering to hit a 30FL target on their 130" 1.0 gain screen, not sure if that impacted the measurement. I also know with this pj specifically the different picture modes greatly vary in out of the box accuracy & brightness.

This projector is already released over a month ago in China so this should be the v1.0 firmware for it.
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post #427 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mj1 View Post
review: X12000h from a chinese site. Translated below


reviewer claims 110% dci-p3 coverage in hdr mode.
<3 led
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post #428 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 09:51 AM
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To read the text below the chart, simply copy and paste into google translate. Not sure why those didnt translate with the webpage
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post #429 of 516 Old 10-12-2018, 10:02 AM
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To read the text below the chart, simply copy and paste into google translate. Not sure why those didnt translate with the webpage
Eh it doesnt matter too much anyway, whether needs calibration or not, most would probably do this anyway.

What im really interested in is how the dimming works, thats the most important thing a review can tell us w/ this projector.
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post #430 of 516 Old 10-14-2018, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
Review: x12000H from a Chinese site. Translated below


Reviewer claims 110% DCI-P3 coverage in HDR mode.



https://translate.google.com/transla...95&prev=search
The hacker in me wants to pull one of these apart and find out how to make the SDR model do HDR *so bad*. Aside from motion processing and 3D there's no reason an SDR unit couldn't be hacked to do HDR.
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post #431 of 516 Old 10-14-2018, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldek View Post
The hacker in me wants to pull one of these apart and find out how to make the SDR model do HDR *so bad*. Aside from motion processing and 3D there's no reason an SDR unit couldn't be hacked to do HDR.

Maybe somehow you can get your hands on the firmware for x12000H and then just flash your chip. Hardware is all the same. Nothing new in x12000H as far as i can tell.
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post #432 of 516 Old 10-14-2018, 08:41 PM
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Isn’t there some processing chip on the circuit board that handles HDR processing? Seems like a hack would be impossible.
Although if it was a firmware thing that would be awesome.
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post #433 of 516 Old 10-14-2018, 10:18 PM
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Anyone have link to lk990 info?

I have looked all over and only find copy paste articles
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post #434 of 516 Old 10-14-2018, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyzcar View Post
Isn’t there some processing chip on the circuit board that handles HDR processing? Seems like a hack would be impossible.
Although if it was a firmware thing that would be awesome.
That's what I'd like to know. At the very least it would be nice if we could get it to accept BT.2020 colour data, since HDR on projectors is basically a fudge anyway.

I watched "First Man" at the cinema this weekend just gone in the local "Gold Class" cinema. Can't say I thought their image quality or contrast was any better than what my X12000 produces.
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post #435 of 516 Old 10-14-2018, 10:58 PM
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Trying to understand HDR to SDR

Hi All,

I just pulled the trigger on the HT9050. I couldn't say no to the deal and I don't want to spend the full MSRP on the x12000H.

What I am trying to understand, but I still don't have a clear picture about what is needed to simulate the HDR experience using the DCI-P3 color space that the HT9050/x12000 offer. I came across some information about getting an hdfury to strip out the metadata from the HDR signal so that the projector would still get the full signal, but have the metadata stripped, but I don't understand what this technically does? Does it mean that if you strip the metadata and the color band sent is above what the projector can handle you would get faulty signals; basically what is the downside to stripping the metadata signal from HDR? I also came across information about Dave's harpervision, but I am not sure what exactly that is? Is it just a custom display settings with custom gamma etc... that would mimic HDR?

I guess what I am looking for is how would you go about making the HT9050 or any SDR projector with DCI P3 space accept and display faux HDR without tone mapping at the source. Is there a set top box/passthrough or settings that I can set that intercepts between the source and display or settings that I can change and then toggle at the display side?

Sorry for all the newb questions, I did try searching and reading through the forums, but I couldn't get a clear picture on how to go about all this. Please feel free to redirect me to materials that I should be reading.
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post #436 of 516 Old 10-15-2018, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashuout View Post
I have looked all over and only find copy paste articles
i have a draft LK990 spec sheet from my local BenQ , if u want i can send it to you , just pm me your email.

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post #437 of 516 Old 10-15-2018, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldek View Post
That's what I'd like to know. At the very least it would be nice if we coulsd get it to accept BT.2020 colour data, since HDR on projectors is basically a fudge anyway.

I watched "First Man" at the cinema this weekend just gone in the local "Gold Class" cinema. Can't say I thought their image quality or contrast was any better than what my X12000 produces.
You can get the ht9050/x12000 to accept bt2020 with something like an hdfury vertex. Just keep in mind you will need someone skilled at calibration to reclibrate the pj as even the dcip3 mode is not setup correctly for bt2020 input (its setup fpr dcip3 input which doesnt exist).

Also if you are going to go this route probably better off using the Panasonic UB820 to tone map to sdr bt2020.

One of the big downsides to this method is if you use something like xbox one x or a cable box (basically anything other than blu ray player) that has no substantial tonemapping capabilities the end result will not be good.
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post #438 of 516 Old 10-15-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
You can get the ht9050/x12000 to accept bt2020 with something like an hdfury vertex. Just keep in mind you will need someone skilled at calibration to reclibrate the pj as even the dcip3 mode is not setup correctly for bt2020 input (its setup fpr dcip3 input which doesnt exist).

Also if you are going to go this route probably better off using the Panasonic UB820 to tone map to sdr bt2020.
Yeah I realised overnight that the wider colour space is just the same 10 bit signal but with different colours for each value. I have a Panasonic UB420 which can still do the colour mapping as I understand it. I can also get a hdfury linker for about a hundred and eighty bucks which is not a bad deal.

Last edited by kaldek; 10-16-2018 at 02:01 AM.
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post #439 of 516 Old 10-15-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kaldek View Post
Yeah I realise overnight that the wider colour space is just the same 10 bit signal but with different colours for each value. I have a Panasonic UB420 which can still do the colour typing as I understand it. I can also get a hdfury linker for about a hundred and eighty bucks which is not a bad deal.
That plus your Panasonic would get you all the way there after calibration, but only for blu ray obviously
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post #440 of 516 Old 10-17-2018, 04:45 PM
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On the comment about watching first man in the theaters. I thought the exact same thing. That my projection picture at home is every bit as good as the cinema.

Now I have questions also about my Panasonic UB400 SDR setting in the player. I can see it adjust the tone mapping and it looks good. Is this all i need to simplify my setup. Is the HR fury or vertex thing essential.
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post #441 of 516 Old 10-17-2018, 08:52 PM
 
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BenQ X12000 : 4K DLP projector with HLD LED

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyzcar View Post
On the comment about watching first man in the theaters. I thought the exact same thing. That my projection picture at home is every bit as good as the cinema.



Now I have questions also about my Panasonic UB400 SDR setting in the player. I can see it adjust the tone mapping and it looks good. Is this all i need to simplify my setup. Is the HR fury or vertex thing essential.

The HDFURY is only essential if you want to watch HDR from sources other than your UHD Blu-ray player, like from a streamer box like AppleTV, Shield, Roku, Firetv, etc. In which case you’d need to also employ some HarperVision techniques since this projector doesn’t do HDR natively.

Last edited by Dave Harper; 10-17-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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post #442 of 516 Old 10-17-2018, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyzcar View Post
On the comment about watching first man in the theaters. I thought the exact same thing. That my projection picture at home is every bit as good as the cinema.

Now I have questions also about my Panasonic UB400 SDR setting in the player. I can see it adjust the tone mapping and it looks good. Is this all i need to simplify my setup. Is the HR fury or vertex thing essential.
Johnny what kind of room setup do you have? Screen type and size? First DLP projector? Do find the black bars distracting on scope movies with Smart Eco?

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post #443 of 516 Old 10-18-2018, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaldek View Post
That's what I'd like to know. At the very least it would be nice if we could get it to accept BT.2020 colour data, since HDR on projectors is basically a fudge anyway.

I watched "First Man" at the cinema this weekend just gone in the local "Gold Class" cinema. Can't say I thought their image quality or contrast was any better than what my X12000 produces.
Just use an htpc with madvr pixel shader hdr to sdr remapping.

You can use dci-p3 as gamut target and madvr will remapp automatically as well.

And don't get fooled by the sdr name. This is real hdr mapped on an sdr gamma of your choice (2.2, 2.4 etc)

You will then make your older units even better than the new one with the best hdr tone mapping for projector at the moment.

This is what I do with my Epson ls10000 with 100% dci coverage but no official hdr compatibility.

This is also what many jvc do since madvr has the best hdr tone mapping out there. Plus, it's dynamic tone mapping frame by frame! :-)

Ps: I also have the Panasonic. While the tone mapping is good, madvr is better and dynamic. Plus you need first a rec2020 calibration for the pana since it does not allow tone mapping toward DCI-p3 d65.
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post #444 of 516 Old 10-18-2018, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
Johnny what kind of room setup do you have? Screen type and size? First DLP projector? Do find the black bars distracting on scope movies with Smart Eco?
I have owned 3 projectors over the last few years starting from the entry level Benq W6000 then to the Sony 55ES, an Infocus 5504 and now this 9050. I had been using Pioneer Plasma TV's as well as Sumsung about 10 years ago. I finally switched to projectors and have not looked back. My Screen size is 120" I think Silverticket brand. I have another in a man cave that was similar but not silver ticket brand. I do not find the 235:1 a problem althought it would be cool to have a 235 type screen or lens to correctly display it.
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post #445 of 516 Old 10-18-2018, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulnight View Post
Just use an htpc with madvr pixel shader hdr to sdr remapping.

You can use dci-p3 as gamut target and madvr will remapp automatically as well.

And don't get fooled by the sdr name. This is real hdr mapped on an sdr gamma of your choice (2.2, 2.4 etc)

You will then make your older units even better than the new one with the best hdr tone mapping for projector at the moment.

This is what I do with my Epson ls10000 with 100% dci coverage but no official hdr compatibility.

This is also what many jvc do since madvr has the best hdr tone mapping out there. Plus, it's dynamic tone mapping frame by frame! :-)

Ps: I also have the Panasonic. While the tone mapping is good, madvr is better and dynamic. Plus you need first a rec2020 calibration for the pana since it does not allow tone mapping toward DCI-p3 d65.
Ok I am definitely interested in this. I have a Mac mini that I was using as a HTPC. I have a NAS server with lots of movies stored.
So would I have to rip my 4k movies to my server then map using the above software? Just seems like a hassle to me. I used to be into tweaking every setting for perfection. Right now I have my Panasonic UB400 ran direct to the projector to input 1 with the wide color etc. I have a Dish PVR hooked to my old DVDO Edge going to a 4k HDMI switch. My AVR is a Pioneer Elite top of the line with the ICE technology thing pioneer had a while back.

Can you point me to a guide or tutorial to set up MADVR? Would I still need to mess with getting a Fury switch?
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post #446 of 516 Old 10-25-2018, 08:24 AM
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Some comparison screenshots of actual image and through x12000H


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post #447 of 516 Old 10-25-2018, 11:20 AM
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I received my ht9050 a couple days ago, bought the refurb ebay one. Contrast is good to me, but the color and sharpness is amazing. I also have a Sony hw65es projector and a 60 inch pioneer plasma. I am projecting the image on a silver ticket 92" cinegray screen. The ht9050 picture is better than the Sony's in all aspects. My 9050 has new firmware and smart eco LED dimming.
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post #448 of 516 Old 10-25-2018, 11:43 AM
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Benq has two left. I might have to jump on this. Anybody gaming on this projector? The contrast, how much better is it than the your Sony projector?

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post #449 of 516 Old 10-25-2018, 12:34 PM
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I’m sending my refurb back to Benq for a refund, nothing wrong with it really except I would like an fi with sports. And 3D.
Other than that the machine is sharp as attack beautiful collars in the contrast is pretty good.

With that said I just ordered the Jvc NX5 I couldn’t pass up the pre-order pricing.

If it doesn’t blow me away I’ll probably order eithr the Ben Q 9060 or the LK990.

Benq is an excellent customer services company, and if anybody is on the fence I wouldn’t even hesitate if this projector meets all your needs.

Bob
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post #450 of 516 Old 10-25-2018, 05:08 PM
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These 4K PJs are really peaking my interest, I had a W7000 that I loved before going to JVC. They must look very sharp but contrast concerns me. Do they have a manual iris?

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