JVC RS400 - Will I Care About Input Lag for Gaming? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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JVC RS400 - Will I Care About Input Lag for Gaming?

I posted this in the RS400 owners thread, but I don't think anyone saw it - so I figured I'd open a new thread.

I was about 30 minutes from pulling the trigger on the JVC RS400, and the dealer / friend told me it's not the best for gaming - but that I MIGHT not notice depending on what kind of games I play. This was a bit of a bombshell because I was very set on this projector.

I watch more movies and my kids play more video games, but I do spend a few hours a week playing a video game (so the projector itself is probably going to get 50/50 movies / gaming). HOWEVER, I do not play online games or any hardcore FPS type games. I only play single player games...and mostly adventure / story / RPG type games (fallout 4, uncharted 4, Far cry, Bloodborne, and some story based RPG's, etc). I am not a hardcore / competitive player by any means, I play games more for the story and relaxation / enjoyment - not to beat high scores and times.....but I also don't want to get annoyed because my games are all unplayable and lag on a $3k-$4k projector.

I also think I am a bit confused on what input lag even is? Will I notice a big delay between the time I press a button on the controller and that action being executed on the screen? Or is it more like latency where my ping will be high? If that's the case, if I only play single player games, I am good, right?

I spoke to a couple other dealers, and they both said that nobody they know has complained about this input lag thing on the JVC units - but I also don't know if they are being 100% truthful because they're dealers and they want a sell.

Is this something a casual gamer is going to notice and get annoyed with, or are only the most hardcore / competitive players going to notice?

If it is going to be a problem, are there any other projectors that I should be looking at? Or would I be better off getting some cheap ($1k-ish) that has good enough picture quality, but low input lag - and wait around until something as good as the JVC lowers the input lag?
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post #2 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daudi81 View Post
I also think I am a bit confused on what input lag even is? Will I notice a big delay between the time I press a button on the controller and that action being executed on the screen? Or is it more like latency where my ping will be high? If that's the case, if I only play single player games, I am good, right?
Yes, lag is the delay between when the signal hits the projector, and when it displays that on the screen. So yes, high lag means there's a delay between when you hit the button and when you see that action on the screen. So no, just because you play local/single player doesn't mean you're good.

For example, when playing Halo (campaign) for me there's a noticeable delay (on my RS4910) between when I move the stick and when I see it such that I usually will overshoot what I'm trying to aim at. And in Forza, cars are harder to control because the visual cues of slides and the like are all delayed.

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Is this something a casual gamer is going to notice and get annoyed with, or are only the most hardcore / competitive players going to notice?
IMO the idea that lag only affects competitive/hardcore/online gamers is incorrect. I think it's more like RBE or motion issues, in that it's just that some people are more sensitive to it than others. I think it also has to do with what you're used to. For example my friend who doesn't play games on his own (definitely a casual gamer), noticed the lag on my JVC.

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If it is going to be a problem, are there any other projectors that I should be looking at? Or would I be better off getting some cheap ($1k-ish) that has good enough picture quality, but low input lag - and wait around until something as good as the JVC lowers the input lag?
The best option, is if you've got a local dealer, take your console in and hook it up and give it a try and see for yourself. Aside from that, you could get the JVC and see how it goes, and if it doesn't work well you could get something like the BenQ W1070, which is quite inexpensive. Some people go with a Sony, but I don't think they have the PQ for the price they want.
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post #3 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 02:33 PM
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yeah unfortunately you WILL care about the lag with gaming. I tried to game (both online and off) on my rs600, and it was too delayed to handle. I ended up buying a sony projector strictly for gaming.
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post #4 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 02:54 PM
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So glad this is here.

Will projectors with the new Ti 4k UHD chipset all have lag issues with gaming? What about the new benQ 4k projector, will it have these lag issues with gaming?


I'm currently using a benQ W1080st on a 120" screen. Games are played almost daily.


Can't be lagging out playing Overwatch.
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post #5 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 03:25 PM
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DLP seem to GENERALLY be decent with lag, noone knows much about the new 4k variants.
Sony seems decent with lag, JVC picture is awesome, and lag has been an issue that they obviously have refused to deal with forever.
Finally got brightness,maybe lag is next!😉
Not holding my breath there though.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #6 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yes, lag is the delay between when the signal hits the projector, and when it displays that on the screen. So yes, high lag means there's a delay between when you hit the button and when you see that action on the screen. So no, just because you play local/single player doesn't mean you're good.

For example, when playing Halo (campaign) for me there's a noticeable delay (on my RS4910) between when I move the stick and when I see it such that I usually will overshoot what I'm trying to aim at. And in Forza, cars are harder to control because the visual cues of slides and the like are all delayed.



IMO the idea that lag only affects competitive/hardcore/online gamers is incorrect. I think it's more like RBE or motion issues, in that it's just that some people are more sensitive to it than others. I think it also has to do with what you're used to. For example my friend who doesn't play games on his own (definitely a casual gamer), noticed the lag on my JVC.



The best option, is if you've got a local dealer, take your console in and hook it up and give it a try and see for yourself. Aside from that, you could get the JVC and see how it goes, and if it doesn't work well you could get something like the BenQ W1070, which is quite inexpensive. Some people go with a Sony, but I don't think they have the PQ for the price they want.
Thanks for the in-depth response, that helped.

I've heard that the BenQ W1070 is a good projector for the price - how big of a step down from the JVC is it in picture quality? I'm still pretty beginner-ish when it comes to this stuff, so I may not notice the difference like a more experienced eye could. The JVC was just recommended by every dealer around me, as well as here on the forums.

Are there any other projectors in that price range that can touch the JVC - or am I just better off getting something cheap / good enough (BenQ 1070) until JVC updates the lag issue or something else comes on the market?
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post #7 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 03:32 PM
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Vivitek 1186 is a DLP that goes on sale at times, I actually have 1 that needs to go back for repair(get off my Duff, they sent RMA return prepaid slip), pretty cheap, and from what I've read competes VERY favorably to the 1070, it also has some vertical lens shift, is pretty quiet, and throws a decent picture.
Doesn't compare to even my Lowly RS400 Though.

Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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post #8 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 04:04 PM
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I love my jvc4910 except for the lag. It has excellent color, black levels and very sharp. It affects me some when playing fps single player and forget about playing online.

If you are looking at DLP you should also consider the fact that dlp projectors typically have much less vertical lens shift if that matters to you.

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post #9 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daudi81 View Post
I've heard that the BenQ W1070 is a good projector for the price - how big of a step down from the JVC is it in picture quality? I'm still pretty beginner-ish when it comes to this stuff, so I may not notice the difference like a more experienced eye could.
You won't need an experienced eye to tell the difference.

Quote:
The JVC was just recommended by every dealer around me, as well as here on the forums.

Are there any other projectors in that price range that can touch the JVC - or am I just better off getting something cheap / good enough (BenQ 1070) until JVC updates the lag issue or something else comes on the market?
You could look into a good DLP. I forget if Mike or Craig was looking at the Vivitek 9090. My Planar 8150 (now sold as the Runco LS5) fairs pretty well against my RS4910.
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post #10 of 37 Old 05-25-2016, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Do people ever get 2 different projectors (1 for movies / 1 for gaming)? I could get the RS400 and then an el cheap BenQ 2050 or even Sony HW40ES (I've heard the BenQ is a little noisy). Not sure how big of a downgrade in quality the picture would be though - but gaming isn't as important for movies with picture quality I would assume.
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post #11 of 37 Old 05-26-2016, 04:56 AM
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I've got an RS4910 and a Planar 8150. I didn't get the Planar for gaming, but I did keep it for it.
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post #12 of 37 Old 05-26-2016, 01:28 PM
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I have both the RS500 and the HW40ES. I use the RS500 for movies and HW40ES for gaming. The lag is pretty huge, specially for online games.

I can easily show you how bad it is. I could record the lag on my phone and upload it to youtube.

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post #13 of 37 Old 05-26-2016, 01:31 PM
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Get a Sony 40 es or 55 es. The picture quality is very good after calibration.
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post #14 of 37 Old 05-26-2016, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RigorousXChris View Post
I have both the RS500 and the HW40ES. I use the RS500 for movies and HW40ES for gaming. The lag is pretty huge, specially for online games.

I can easily show you how bad it is. I could record the lag on my phone and upload it to youtube.
I have the same setup and agree with you.
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post #15 of 37 Old 05-29-2016, 06:43 AM
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You will notice input lag. I ended going with a sony 65es and it's great for gaming. I use my PJ 60/40 (gaming/movies). In game mode, i can't really notice any input lag. I play a lot of FPS on PC and random stuff on ps4. I had a epson 5030 which i returned because its game mode severely reduced image sharpness and it really bothered me. I still might do a dual pj setup, especially after seeing a JVC in person at the local magnolia. (I wish i hadn't)
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post #16 of 37 Old 06-01-2016, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Colozeus View Post
You will notice input lag. I ended going with a sony 65es and it's great for gaming. I use my PJ 60/40 (gaming/movies). In game mode, i can't really notice any input lag. I play a lot of FPS on PC and random stuff on ps4. I had a epson 5030 which i returned because its game mode severely reduced image sharpness and it really bothered me. I still might do a dual pj setup, especially after seeing a JVC in person at the local magnolia. (I wish i hadn't)

Exactly same here.
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post #17 of 37 Old 06-01-2016, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
You won't need an experienced eye to tell the difference.



You could look into a good DLP. I forget if Mike or Craig was looking at the Vivitek 9090. My Planar 8150 (now sold as the Runco LS5) fairs pretty well against my RS4910.
H9090. It has the large 0.95" chip. Throws a wonderful image. Still have it in my room.
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post #18 of 37 Old 06-01-2016, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daudi81 View Post
Do people ever get 2 different projectors (1 for movies / 1 for gaming)? I could get the RS400 and then an el cheap BenQ 2050 or even Sony HW40ES (I've heard the BenQ is a little noisy). Not sure how big of a downgrade in quality the picture would be though - but gaming isn't as important for movies with picture quality I would assume.
Yes, people do that all the time. Another advantage is not putting a ton of gaming hours on your good projector.
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post #19 of 37 Old 11-18-2016, 07:12 AM
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Resurrecting this thread -- has anybody calculated the input lag of the RS400? I'm thinking about upgrading from an Epson 7500UB. I use it with FI and NR on, and according to this site, that puts it around 50ms lag, which I have no issue with:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/the-...a-second-look/

I don't even need eShift on for gaming, I'm fine with unprocessed results. I just can't find a number for the RS400 to know if it's going to be bad for my gaming or not... :/

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post #20 of 37 Old 11-18-2016, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fezmid View Post
Resurrecting this thread -- has anybody calculated the input lag of the RS400? I'm thinking about upgrading from an Epson 7500UB. I use it with FI and NR on, and according to this site, that puts it around 50ms lag, which I have no issue with:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/the-...a-second-look/

I just can't find a number for the RS400 to know if it's going to be bad for my gaming or not... :/
Higher than that. With E-shift on and all the other bells and whistles turned on, expect around 130ms. Turning off all the extra processing will drop that number down, but not near 50ms.
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post #21 of 37 Old 11-18-2016, 07:16 AM
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I haven't measured my RS600, but I assume it's right around the 130ms that my RS4910 was.
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Higher than that. With E-shift on and all the other bells and whistles turned on, expect around 130ms. Turning off all the extra processing will drop that number down, but not near 50ms.
I'll have to measure my RS600, my RS4910 could not be brought below ~130ms, adding in more processing would bring it up to more like 150-160ms.
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I'll have to measure my RS600, my RS4910 could not be brought below ~130ms, adding in more processing would bring it up to more like 150-160ms.
If you have a chance, that'd be great. I'm going to see if there's any place locally that has the pj setup so I could maybe test it out before deciding to pull the trigger.
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Originally Posted by Fezmid View Post
If you have a chance, that'd be great. I'm going to see if there's any place locally that has the pj setup so I could maybe test it out before deciding to pull the trigger.
Black Friday would be a good time to pick up a deal on a JVC, if you know where to look.
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post #25 of 37 Old 11-19-2016, 06:55 AM
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If you have a chance, that'd be great. I'm going to see if there's any place locally that has the pj setup so I could maybe test it out before deciding to pull the trigger.
RS600, no enhancements (eShift, CMD, etc):
125ms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
RS600, no enhancements (eShift, CMD, etc):
125ms
I love my RS400, it's a great projector for movies. Sadly for gaming it has far too much delay. I wish there was a "GAME" mode in [email protected], but sadly that simply isn't the case. Right now its only other major flaw is how long it takes for the HDMI to sync up.

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post #27 of 37 Old 11-23-2016, 06:23 PM
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You need a 2nd PJ, get a cheap DLP or a Sony hw45es to play games on. It would be nice if we could use the JVC for everything, but you would also probably put too many hours on the PJ, and honestly it's not even worth the expense given how cheap a Benq DLP is these days.

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post #28 of 37 Old 11-26-2016, 12:04 AM
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I used to have ones of these PJ and gamed a lot on it but eventually gave up even in single player the lag is just unacceptable IMO. These were simply not designed for that purpose. There are other PJ that can do both movies and games very well. If you can pick up an LS10000 that is the sweet spot.

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post #29 of 37 Old 11-26-2016, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
I used to have ones of these PJ and gamed a lot on it but eventually gave up even in single player the lag is just unacceptable IMO. These were simply not designed for that purpose. There are other PJ that can do both movies and games very well. If you can pick up an LS10000 that is the sweet spot.
I thought the LS10000 had like 250ms of lag, or the PQ went in the toilet when you put it in "fast" mode (or whatever it's called)?
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post #30 of 37 Old 11-26-2016, 06:34 PM
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I thought the LS10000 had like 250ms of lag, or the PQ went in the toilet when you put it in "fast" mode (or whatever it's called)?
Well I am playing in full 4K and its more responsive than my Sony 4K was that's all I can say. It surprised me too.

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