JVC 4k Native Laser projector (confirm) - Page 132 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3995Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3931 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 06:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,017
Mentioned: 489 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6913 Post(s)
Liked: 6619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I try to report factual information. I do this so that people can make an informed decision, regarding a 400/500/600 vs 420/520/620 purchase. Same goes for any other brand they are considering. I try to get people the best option for their budget. Recommending the cheaper 400/500/600 makes me less money, not more, so not an advantage to do so on my part. I tell people the pricing and the differences. I answer their questions and let them make the decision on what projector to buy.

People speculate and I seek the answer and report what information I am free to release. I reported that low lag was the main item added, but have never reported that it is the only improvement. I reported the reason for the contrast change and brightness change. People keep saying E-shift 4 is improved. E-shift 4 is the exact same E-shift as on the models last year. Here is copy and paste what JVC reported to me, when I specifically asked about E-shift on the new models.
"E-shift 4 is the same. MPC (which does the scaling) is improved for 4K sources."
Haha Mike! That last sentence is actually quite significant believe it or not! Its all I have ever been saying.

JVC are only giving you 15 words to go off its not much detail is it? That's ambiguous at best, it means to me hardware has not changed but software has, that's fine. They go hand in hand.

Every piece of hardware requires software to work to its potential, downplaying that the 4K image, and even the 1080p E-Shifted image (Which requires the MPC scaling algorithms to actually work in the first place) is not improved and not an important thing to mention is just that, downplaying its possible changes.

Considering I run UHD resolution to the JVC permanently, I expect to see something happening here.

Kris mentions the Bluray performance on the 620 is spectacular vs the Z1, and there is almost zero difference between them, which is interesting since the Bluray performance is exactly what all you guys have been gushing over on the Z1 vs your old 600's when you got the units is it not?

At the end of the day, its why I will be doing my best to photographically show any differences, its a shame I don't have an X9000 to directly compare it to on the day, I will do the best I can.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3932 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 06:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,937
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 528 Post(s)
Liked: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Kris mentions the Bluray performance on the 620 is spectacular vs the Z1, and there is almost zero difference between them, which is interesting since the Bluray performance is exactly what all you guys have been gushing over on the Z1 vs your old 600's when you got the units is it not?
It's not exactly what he is saying.. he said almost identical when the images were paused. There's a difference... he also gets into a bit more on the overall advantages from the 4500.

Last edited by adidino; 02-14-2017 at 08:23 PM.
adidino is offline  
post #3933 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 06:48 PM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Unfortunately at the cost of sharpness. Bandyka noticed some artefacting with it engaged and took a couple pics, cant remember where but it could be seen.

Seems like its not a mode we can use for critical viewing
Interesting to hear. I wonder what the artifacts are exactly and look like. I'll have to see if I can find the images.
Seegs108 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3934 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 06:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,941
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 890 Post(s)
Liked: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I try to report factual information. I do this so that people can make an informed decision, regarding a 400/500/600 vs 420/520/620 purchase. Same goes for any other brand they are considering. I try to get people the best option for their budget. Recommending the cheaper 400/500/600 makes me less money, not more, so not an advantage to do so on my part. I tell people the pricing and the differences. I answer their questions and let them make the decision on what projector to buy.

People speculate and I seek the answer and report what information I am free to release. I reported that low lag was the main item added, but have never reported that it is the only improvement. I reported the reason for the contrast change and brightness change. People keep saying E-shift 4 is improved. E-shift 4 is the exact same E-shift as on the models last year. Here is copy and paste what JVC reported to me, when I specifically asked about E-shift on the new models.
"E-shift 4 is the same. MPC (which does the scaling) is improved for 4K sources."
Haha Mike! That last sentence is actually quite significant believe it or not! Its all I have ever been saying.

JVC are only giving you 15 words to go off its not much detail is it? That's ambiguous at best, it means to me hardware has not changed but software has, that's fine. They go hand in hand.

Every piece of hardware requires software to work to its potential, downplaying that the 4K image, and even the 1080p E-Shifted image (Which requires the MPC scaling algorithms to actually work in the first place) is not improved and not an important thing to mention is just that, downplaying its possible changes.

Considering I run UHD resolution to the JVC permanently, I expect to see something happening here.

Kris mentions the Bluray performance on the 620 is spectacular vs the Z1, and there is almost zero difference between them, which is interesting since the Bluray performance is exactly what all you guys have been gushing over on the Z1 vs your old 600's when you got the units is it not?

At the end of the day, its why I will be doing my best to photographically show any differences, its a shame I don't have an X9000 to directly compare it to on the day, I will do the best I can.
I was kind of jealous of how much better the 4500 was said to be at blu ray over the 500/600. Now I'm excited knowing how well the newer models excel at regular blu rays.
blee0120 is offline  
post #3935 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 06:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,017
Mentioned: 489 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6913 Post(s)
Liked: 6619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Interesting to hear. I wonder what the artifacts are exactly and look like. I'll have to see if I can find the images.
Yeah,

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50681865

Not hard to tell which looks more natural.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #3936 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 07:00 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,459
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12498 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Haha Mike! That last sentence is actually quite significant believe it or not! Its all I have ever been saying.

JVC are only giving you 15 words to go off its not much detail is it? That's ambiguous at best, it means to me hardware has not changed but software has, that's fine. They go hand in hand.

Every piece of hardware requires software to work to its potential, downplaying that the 4K image, and even the 1080p E-Shifted image (Which requires the MPC scaling algorithms to actually work in the first place) is not improved and not an important thing to mention is just that, downplaying its possible changes.

Considering I run UHD resolution to the JVC permanently, I expect to see something happening here.

Kris mentions the Bluray performance on the 620 is spectacular vs the Z1, and there is almost zero difference between them, which is interesting since the Bluray performance is exactly what all you guys have been gushing over on the Z1 vs your old 600's when you got the units is it not?

At the end of the day, its why I will be doing my best to photographically show any differences, its a shame I don't have an X9000 to directly compare it to on the day, I will do the best I can.
All along I have reported that MPC has been improved. It is plainly listed on JVC's web site, under description. I even reported that the change to MPC was to optimize it for 4K playback.

That was Craig, that was gushing over 1080P BD. I was gushing over the 4k HDR. 90% of what I have watched so far on my 4500 has been 4K with HDR. I did acknowledge that 1080P also looked very good. I never thought there would be a huge difference with 1080P. I was expecting the difference to show up more with 4K and glad that Kris has been able to confirm that is the case.
OzHDHT and Javs like this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #3937 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 07:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,879
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2327 Post(s)
Liked: 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yeah,

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50681865

Not hard to tell which looks more natural.
Most owners can't detect this they say but it's there unfortunately, again it could be my setup but I just can't see how.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is offline  
post #3938 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 07:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
The Bogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked: 252
ok thanks. I'm sure the 600 will be good enough for my needs considering I'm still using the Sony VPL-VW60 Black Pearl
Either the 600 or the Epson 10500.

Design by Rives...dollars by The Bogg

Click for my build thread
The Bogg is offline  
post #3939 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 07:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,017
Mentioned: 489 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6913 Post(s)
Liked: 6619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Most owners can't detect this they say but it's there unfortunately, again it could be my setup but I just can't see how.
It was a good spot on your behalf, I will try and get a photo on my unit and see if its there for me too. Not everybody is running an HTPC like us so we can thankfully check this stuff on pixel level text, nothing gets past pixel level text.

I can pretty clearly see it in your photo though, and that would be overall detrimental to a crisp clean image that's for sure. Although mild, but still, for critical viewing, unacceptable.
Bandyka and kohe321 like this.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is online now  
post #3940 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 08:02 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,459
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12498 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
ok thanks. I'm sure the 600 will be good enough for my needs considering I'm still using the Sony VPL-VW60 Black Pearl
Either the 600 or the Epson 10500.
My brother was using the VW60 for several years, so it was not that long ago, that I viewed this projector on a regular basis. With the RS600, you are in for a treat. If I can help you, let me know.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #3941 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 09:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
So I received the RS620 yesterday. This allowed me to do some direct on screen comparisons. I brightness matched the projectors and ran them both without any dynamic laser/iris but then later turned on the dynamic laser for the RS4500. Starting with Blu-ray I was surprised at how little difference there was. With paused images they were nearly identical in detail (I did this both with eShift On and Off). The RS620 has quite a bit more intrascene contrast, which was readily apparent in darker images (some clips from Oblivion and Pacific Rim). But the RS4500 had a bit more dimensionality in motion. But overall 1080p playback was a lot closer than I was expecting and I think I'd actually lean a bit toward the 620 for the improved contrast with darker material.

With 4K there was more separation. While the 620 and eShift do an admirable job with native 4K content, the RS4500 definitely takes it to another level. Fine object detail shines and the image has an ease to it that just isn't matched with the 620. The 620 also looked pretty flat in direct comparisons with the better UHD transfers out there like Lucy and Sicario. But if you didn't compare them directly and watched the 620 on its own it was surprising how good it looked. 4K transfers definitely looked better than their Blu-ray counterparts in fine detail. All of the UHD viewing was done in non-HDR (I turned HDR off in the Panasonic UHD player) to make it easier to compare until I get an HDR calibration done on the 620.
I don't think many people would be surprised by this comparison.

I have been saying since last April when I got my 5000ES, that my RS600 did a remarkably good job with true 4K content. To the point the the difference would be hard to spot unless in a side by side comparison on a very large screen.

I never expected the RS4500 contrast to look as good as my RS600, and it doesn't. The RS4500 throws an incredible image, and there are some advantages to the unit over the RS600, but contrast isn't one of them. Not sure who would of expected it to be though.

The 5000ES, the RS4500, and the RS600, all have their right places, but they are really all for very different installs.

The advantages of the RS600. Best bang for the buck. It has an incredible picture, especially when displaying true 4K content with Eshift. The unit is almost silent. The native contrast is unbeatable. Only cons, it could still use more light output and the lamp doesn't provide the same super stable image that Laser does. There can be some noticeable flicker with the lamp, especially when first warming up and the unit has uniformity issues when displaying black with increased brightness in the corners. I would limit to about 10' wide screen.

The advantage of the RS4500. True 4K projector. Excellent lens and sharpness. Decent motion handling, but I think that Sony still wins slightly in this category. More light output than the RS600. The Laser provides better image stability and uniformity. The manual iris allows for increase of native contrast. Compared to the Sony, not a bad entry price for a true 4K Laser projector. Only cons, unit can be loud especially in High Laser mode. The dynamic dimming still needs work, as its fairly distracting at this point. And the native contrast is good, not great. I would limit to about a 12' wide screen.

The advantages of the 5000ES. True 4K Laser projector. Brightest unit in the home theater market. Excellent lens and sharpness. Best motion handling and the dynamic Laser dimming works extremely well. 1000-1500 lumens brighter than RS4500, so it can handle much larger screens or offer brighter HDR. The Sony is almost silent when set to 50% power, which gives same light output as JVC in High Laser mode. Slightly better native contrast than RS4500 with iris max open. Sony HDR Contrast slider allows for easy adjustment of HDR brightness / clipping. Can be used with even the biggest of screen sizes, especially in the 14'-16' wide range. Only cons, the Sony uniformity isn't as good as the RS4500. Good contrast, but like RS4500, no where near the native contrast of RS600. Most expensive unit of them all.

Last edited by ccool96; 02-14-2017 at 09:42 PM.
ccool96 is online now  
post #3942 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 11:44 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 12,087
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I don't think many people would be surprised by this comparison.

I have been saying since last April when I got my 5000ES, that my RS600 did a remarkably good job with true 4K content. To the point the the difference would be hard to spot unless in a side by side comparison on a very large screen.

I never expected the RS4500 contrast to look as good as my RS600, and it doesn't. The RS4500 throws an incredible image, and there are some advantages to the unit over the RS600, but contrast isn't one of them. Not sure who would of expected it to be though.

The 5000ES, the RS4500, and the RS600, all have their right places, but they are really all for very different installs.

The advantages of the RS600. Best bang for the buck. It has an incredible picture, especially when displaying true 4K content with Eshift. The unit is almost silent. The native contrast is unbeatable. Only cons, it could still use more light output and the lamp doesn't provide the same super stable image that Laser does. There can be some noticeable flicker with the lamp, especially when first warming up and the unit has uniformity issues when displaying black with increased brightness in the corners. I would limit to about 10' wide screen.

The advantage of the RS4500. True 4K projector. Excellent lens and sharpness. Decent motion handling, but I think that Sony still wins slightly in this category. More light output than the RS600. The Laser provides better image stability and uniformity. The manual iris allows for increase of native contrast. Compared to the Sony, not a bad entry price for a true 4K Laser projector. Only cons, unit can be loud especially in High Laser mode. The dynamic dimming still needs work, as its fairly distracting at this point. And the native contrast is good, not great. I would limit to about a 12' wide screen.

The advantages of the 5000ES. True 4K Laser projector. Brightest unit in the home theater market. Excellent lens and sharpness. Best motion handling and the dynamic Laser dimming works extremely well. 1000-1500 lumens brighter than RS4500, so it can handle much larger screens or offer brighter HDR. The Sony is almost silent when set to 50% power, which gives same light output as JVC in High Laser mode. Slightly better native contrast than RS4500 with iris max open. Sony HDR Contrast slider allows for easy adjustment of HDR brightness / clipping. Can be used with even the biggest of screen sizes, especially in the 14'-16' wide range. Only cons, the Sony uniformity isn't as good as the RS4500. Good contrast, but like RS4500, no where near the native contrast of RS600. Most expensive unit of them all.
Very well balanced post. Not to bring up a well-discussed old issue--but I will!--by using a HiPower screen with the RS600, one can easily do very well with up to at least a 12ft wide screen (which mine is for 2.35). I know that some claim the HP screen has artifacts, etc., but I still fine it extremely useful; maybe just my non-critical eyes.
Highjinx and andy133 like this.
millerwill is offline  
post #3943 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 11:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Highjinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,545
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1319 Post(s)
Liked: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
It was a good spot on your behalf, I will try and get a photo on my unit and see if its there for me too. Not everybody is running an HTPC like us so we can thankfully check this stuff on pixel level text, nothing gets past pixel level text.

I can pretty clearly see it in your photo though, and that would be overall detrimental to a crisp clean image that's for sure. Although mild, but still, for critical viewing, unacceptable.
So looking forward to your 'Bar no holds' review/comparison.

May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
Hiran J Wijeyesekera - 1985.
Highjinx is offline  
post #3944 of 5254 Old 02-14-2017, 11:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,879
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2327 Post(s)
Liked: 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
It was a good spot on your behalf, I will try and get a photo on my unit and see if its there for me too. Not everybody is running an HTPC like us so we can thankfully check this stuff on pixel level text, nothing gets past pixel level text.

I can pretty clearly see it in your photo though, and that would be overall detrimental to a crisp clean image that's for sure. Although mild, but still, for critical viewing, unacceptable.
Yeah unfortunately I did notice some sharpness drop. Let's see what you come up with.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is offline  
post #3945 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 07:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Cam Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Tucson, AZ, Telluride, CO, & Los Angeles,CA, USA
Posts: 3,392
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 531 Post(s)
Liked: 642
@Kris Deering , ccool96, Mike Garrett...We're all curious about the contrast of the 4500. As a source of comparison, might we consider what we experience from another high quality projector category, large cinema 4K projectors? I have never seen an Lcos cinema projector, but I experience 4K DLP projectors regularly. They look great...until there is a low apl scene or fade to black. Then even our legacy JVC (or similar) look incredibly superior (admittedly subjective description). By comparison to your experience with such scenes with a fine cinema DLP projector in a fine cinema, how does the 4500 compare?
Cam Man is offline  
post #3946 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 08:20 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,297
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6953 Post(s)
Liked: 8209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
@Kris Deering , ccool96, Mike Garrett...We're all curious about the contrast of the 4500. As a source of comparison, might we consider what we experience from another high quality projector category, large cinema 4K projectors? I have never seen an Lcos cinema projector, but I experience 4K DLP projectors regularly. They look great...until there is a low apl scene or fade to black. Then even our legacy JVC (or similar) look incredibly superior (admittedly subjective description). By comparison to your experience with such scenes with a fine cinema DLP projector in a fine cinema, how does the 4500 compare?
Not Kris, but I'll throw my 2 cents in. At least on my RS4500, the dynamic laser dimming works quite well. That is of course something that those DLP projectors can't do. So while there are scenes that I can notice the difference from my RS600 contrast wise, there are a lot of scenes that get damn close ( I've been particularly impressed with the space scenes in the 2009 Star Trek 4K Blu Ray ). And it can do a fade to black that is pretty close to black - something else that a DLP just can't do.

I'd like to see Laser 4K 3 chip DLP's with dynamic laser dimming. I'm not aware of any - yet.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #3947 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,816
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3984 Post(s)
Liked: 6929
In side by side comparisons you notice that the blacks aren't as good as with the other JVCs. But in standalone viewing the contrast looks fine. It was rare that the blacks were elevated enough that it bothered me, and the laser dimming helps a lot. Artifacts from the dimming were typically not an issue, but some content would show it more than others (just like a dynamic iris). There is never any free lunch.

Using the RS620 now it is incredible how quiet it is, and now high lamp even sounds quiet to me as I had gotten used to running the 4500 in higher modes! It's all relative! The RS4500 sounds quiet compared to most of the DLP projectors I've owned or reviewed but the standard JVC line is nearly silent so comparing it to those makes it harder to ignore.

My Home Theater UPDATED DEC 2017
Technical Editor/Writer Sound and Vision Magazine
Deep Dive AV - Calibration, Consulting and Education
Kris Deering is online now  
post #3948 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 08:37 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,816
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3984 Post(s)
Liked: 6929
Another thing to keep in mind, the new calibration method for JVC that Manni has been going over in the other threads is just as applicable for the RS4500. It is KILLING me that I don't have the 4500 anymore to test this on. Should make a big difference and since the RS4500 can still use laser dimming, it would probably be even better than what we're seeing from the standard units.
Craig Peer likes this.

My Home Theater UPDATED DEC 2017
Technical Editor/Writer Sound and Vision Magazine
Deep Dive AV - Calibration, Consulting and Education
Kris Deering is online now  
post #3949 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 08:51 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,459
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12498 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
@Kris Deering , ccool96, Mike Garrett...We're all curious about the contrast of the 4500. As a source of comparison, might we consider what we experience from another high quality projector category, large cinema 4K projectors? I have never seen an Lcos cinema projector, but I experience 4K DLP projectors regularly. They look great...until there is a low apl scene or fade to black. Then even our legacy JVC (or similar) look incredibly superior (admittedly subjective description). By comparison to your experience with such scenes with a fine cinema DLP projector in a fine cinema, how does the 4500 compare?
It may be the laser, but the 4500 seems to me to have the look of a DLP, but with better contrast, when using the dynamic dimming. Fades to black are very good and hold longer than my RS600 that I had. While the dynamic dimming is good, I would like to see a firmware update, improving it even more. The Revenant in 4k UHD blew me away. People often times talk about how good the image appears with a projector, saying it was just like looking out a window. Well the Revenant looked so good, it looked like you were looking out a window, but with the glass removed. It looked like you were looking out an opening and that you could just step through the opening and be there.

I agree with what Kris posted, people need to see this projector, rather than read the spec for contrast and write this projector off. As Kris put it: "Everyone that has come over to see it showed up skeptical and left blown away."

Yes the RS600 does have better contrast and black levels, but with 4K content the 4500 takes it to another level, for overall picture quality. Projector noise wise the unit is not bad in medium power mode, but I am going to install a dead vent to remove the heat that gathers at the ceiling. I can keep the temperature comfortable in my room for people, but I want to remove this heat layer at the ceiling. I may eventually build a hush box, so that I can use high power mode.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #3950 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 11:16 AM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, the new calibration method for JVC that Manni has been going over in the other threads is just as applicable for the RS4500. It is KILLING me that I don't have the 4500 anymore to test this on. Should make a big difference and since the RS4500 can still use laser dimming, it would probably be even better than what we're seeing from the standard units.
@Craig Peer or @Mike Garrett , are you guys able to try this? I'd love to hear what it does for the 4500. If it makes a great difference I just may have to stretch my budget and look into one of these.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #3951 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,459
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12498 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
@Craig Peer or @Mike Garrett , are you guys able to try this? I'd love to hear what it does for the 4500. If it makes a great difference I just may have to stretch my budget and look into one of these.
Now that I have had my projector long enough to run a few hours on it (36) to confirm no problems, I am working on scheduling a calibration.
Dave Harper and DavidHir like this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #3952 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 11:37 AM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Now that I have had my projector long enough to run a few hours on it (36) to confirm no problems, I am working on scheduling a calibration.

So you don't think you're able to load Manni's custom gamma curves yourself? It seemed easy enough to me, or do I not understand what you're saying?
Dave Harper is offline  
post #3953 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 11:53 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,459
Mentioned: 241 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12498 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
So you don't think you're able to load Manni's custom gamma curves yourself? It seemed easy enough to me, or do I not understand what you're saying?
Curve yes, but with the money I spent, I am going to have the projector calibrated by someone better than me.
Dave Harper and DavidHir like this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #3954 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ccool96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
@Kris Deering , ccool96, Mike Garrett...We're all curious about the contrast of the 4500. As a source of comparison, might we consider what we experience from another high quality projector category, large cinema 4K projectors? I have never seen an Lcos cinema projector, but I experience 4K DLP projectors regularly. They look great...until there is a low apl scene or fade to black. Then even our legacy JVC (or similar) look incredibly superior (admittedly subjective description). By comparison to your experience with such scenes with a fine cinema DLP projector in a fine cinema, how does the 4500 compare?
Without a doubt the RS4500 is much better in low APL scenes then big commercial DLP units. Those units top out at about 2000:1. The JVC is about 9000:1. I would say there is a much bigger difference between 2000:1 and 9000:1, then there is from 9000:1 to 50,000:1.

The Laser dimming can help tremendously in low APL scenes, and especially to total Fade to Black scenes. JVC needs to work on their dynamic laser dimming some, as its a little distracting at times. If they get a few firmware updates out to tweak that aspect, it will be a huge asset. They should be able to refine this! At this point, the dynamic dimming is the biggest issue they need to address. If they could address fan noise, that would be great too. But considering we are on the very first initial firmware release, I'm hoping subsequent releases will deal with these two issues. Otherwise the unit is incredible.
ccool96 is online now  
post #3955 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Curve yes, but with the money I spent, I am going to have the projector calibrated by someone better than me.

Oh, well that's what I was asking. For you, Craig or someone to load the custom Manni gamma curve in your 4500 and report the results since Kris said he no longer has one and would've loved to do it himself.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #3956 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,297
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6953 Post(s)
Liked: 8209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
@Craig Peer or @Mike Garrett , are you guys able to try this? I'd love to hear what it does for the 4500. If it makes a great difference I just may have to stretch my budget and look into one of these.
I thought about it, but I have Jeff of Accucal scheduled - and he has way more sophisticated ( and expensive ) calibration equipment, so I think I'll wait for him. Or maybe I'll try it - I did download one of Manni's gamma curves to my computer this morning.
Dave Harper likes this.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #3957 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:41 PM
 
Dave Harper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Paradise on Earth
Posts: 6,554
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3159 Post(s)
Liked: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I thought about it, but I have Jeff of Accucal scheduled - and he has way more sophisticated ( and expensive ) calibration equipment, so I think I'll wait for him. Or maybe I'll try it - I did download one of Manni's gamma curves to my computer this morning.

Yes that would be great Craig! I don't see as it will cause any harm to a later calibration since you're just loading a memory.
Dave Harper is offline  
post #3958 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:46 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,816
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3984 Post(s)
Liked: 6929
Agree, if you just load one of Manni's curves it should work without the need for other calibration equipment. Ideally you could fine tune it, but I bet it would be pretty close without adjustment. It was on the RS620.
Dave Harper and OzHDHT like this.

My Home Theater UPDATED DEC 2017
Technical Editor/Writer Sound and Vision Magazine
Deep Dive AV - Calibration, Consulting and Education
Kris Deering is online now  
post #3959 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:53 PM
Senior Member
 
jetsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 241 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Another thing to keep in mind, the new calibration method for JVC that Manni has been going over in the other threads is just as applicable for the RS4500. It is KILLING me that I don't have the 4500 anymore to test this on. Should make a big difference and since the RS4500 can still use laser dimming, it would probably be even better than what we're seeing from the standard units.
And just what kind of new calibration are we talking about? you made me curious for my Z1 ;-)
jetsen is offline  
post #3960 of 5254 Old 02-15-2017, 12:54 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 10,816
Mentioned: 202 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3984 Post(s)
Liked: 6929
Go to the 600 owners thread, it is all they've been talking about for the last day or so. There is also info on the first page of the JVC calibration thread.

My Home Theater UPDATED DEC 2017
Technical Editor/Writer Sound and Vision Magazine
Deep Dive AV - Calibration, Consulting and Education
Kris Deering is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off