Originally Posted by Seegs108
To that same argument, have you seen an RS4500? For that matter have you compared an eshift JVC to any of the Sony 4Ks? I can tell you matter of factly that the overall performance of JVC's less-than-half-costing projector is better than Sony's 6xx native 4K projector and again, it's doing that at HALF the cost. So why is it not possible for JVCs RS4500 to compete in overall performance with Sony's $60000. And again, JVC never made any effort to compete with the 5000ES in brightness. As for why some people are using it in some of "the best" theaters has more to do with lumen output rather than raw image quality. I know ccool96 has mentioned that if there was an RS600-like JVC unit with as much brightness he wouldn't be using the 5000ES in his theater. So "some of the best" theaters have large screens necessitating large lumen output. A lot of 5000ES owners were once Sim2 Lumis owners. Would you also be making an argument that the Sim2 Lumis is better than the VW1000ES, VW1100ES, 665ES, or 675ES or would you say they probably kept the Lumis all this time because there hasn't been anything nicer with the same or more lumen output since it's release? Please don't associate "best theater" with "best image", because several 5000ES owners (ccool96, Rob Hahn, W.Mayer) are using the 5000ES because of it's lumen output, not necessarily because it has the "best" image. I think it would be fun to brightness match the 5000ES by lowering it's laser output and put it against an RS620. I think the results would be astonishing. In fact, It would be fun if
put his RS600 against the 5000ES brightness matched and let us know what he thought. Could a projector 1/5th the price give the 5000ES a run for it's money if you take away it's one large advantage? Remember, not all of us have a 14'+ screen. Some of us can "slum" with out 10-12' screens and cope with an eshift JVC or an RS4500 and be perfectly happy.
Just to clarify my point of view since my name was invoked, I do believe that certain projectors are better suited for certain installs. That does not mean I think a certain projector is the "Very Best" but rather the "Very Best for that particular install". I currently own 2 Sony 5000ES projectors, 1 JVC RS600, and I have the RS4500 on order. I also have a handful of other projectors like a DPI M-Vision LED.
Just like it would make no sense for my church to replace its fleet of white shuttle vans with Porsche Cayenne Turbos to carry around senior citizens, nor does the Sony 5000ES make the best choice for every home theater. Yes, Porsche Cayenne's would do the job, but they would be complete unnecessary.
My Sony 5000ES throws an incredible image and its currently the best projector suited for my large screen. It certainly provides me with the best image I have ever seen in my Home Theater. Prior to the Sony 5000ES, I had a DPI Titan Reference, which was the replaced with a Titan Reference 3D, which was then replaced with a full DCI complaint Barco DP-4K cinema projector. All three of the prior projectors cost over $60,000.00, with the Barco being close to $100K. While the Barco cinema units hold there value pretty well, the Titans were sold for less than 20% of what I paid. Just as my car probably lost 50K in value when I drove it off the lot, this is the price I pay to enjoy what I'm passionate about.
Is the Sony 5000ES perfect, definitely not. But do I lose sleep at night that the panels might be degrading, not a chance. Even as often as I upgrade, I always expect a huge loss on cars and electronics. Furthermore, I have just clocked over 1100 hours on my 5000ES, and I haven't lost one single lux in light output. The contrast was also measure just last week, with two separate meters, and it measured between 12K-13K:1.
I use my RS600 on a much smaller screen, currently a 100" diagonal in my master bedroom at one home. It does an incredible job. It is very hard to tell a difference between the RS600 and the Sony 5000ES with 4K content especially when viewed on different size screens. The RS600 is truly incredible for the price. I see no benefit to having a Sony 5000ES projector for a 100" screen, when the JVC does an incredible job at 1/6 the price. I would have a hard time justifying a Sony 5000ES on a screen any smaller than 12' wide. But I also would have a hard time using an RS600 on a screen larger than 12' wide.
This is where I'm excited about the RS4500. I think this projector will be the perfect projector to fill the gap between a $12K JVC RS600 and a $60K Sony 5000ES. I think the RS4500 on a 12' wide screen, that has the stability of laser illumination, true 4K panels, and a top notch lens, will offer a nice option at a reasonable price point. Actually both the Sony 5000ES and the RS4500 seem like a steal to me considering what I was paying just a few years ago for 3chip 1080P DLP projectors.
One other comment about the Sony 5000ES in regards to banding and posterization. Sony did a fantastic job getting out regular firmware updates after its initial release to help with some issues like banding and HDR. I was greatly bothered by banding originally when I received my 5000ES, but after the latest firmware update, it is 99.9% gone. While there may be some posterization visible in the image at times from very close distances, "I" do not notice any issue at all from my seating distance. Some of the streaming 4K content on both Amazon and Netflix is just breathtaking when viewed on a massive screen with the 5000ES. Keep in mind that everyone sees things differently. I know Seegs has a real aversion to any form of posterization in faces and content like that. This is just something I don't see. The banding was something I had a horrible time with and this has all but been eliminated.
My RS600 has a very visible flicker to the image, especially when its first turned on. It almost looks like a strobe light. Its is visible to anyone who looks at it, but after the unit has been on for a few minutes, the lamp seems to stabilize, and it no longer an issue. This is where the Laser portion of the RS4500 will be a welcome upgrade. The Sony 5000ES image is just rock solid, no flicker at all, and I suspect the RS4500 will offer that same stability because of the Laser Illumination. The RS600 definitely has some lens streaking that I find annoying, and sometimes I can still notice "bright corners" but these are nit-picking items that don't bother me during normal viewing. I will also say that Sony has done a great job with its "HDR Contrast" slider. If I wanted to see one thing changed on the JVC RS series, it would be a similar implementation of that.
I am not brand loyal, and I also don't have the time or desire to get on AVS and get into a "PEEING" contest about what or who has the best projector. Every one should buy whatever "They" are happiest with. The bottom line is that all the Sony 4K projectors both lamp and laser based, along with all the JVC eShift and 4K units, are fantastic projectors. People sometimes forget where we came from. When I look back at some of my first ever owned projectors, mainly the Mitsubishi VL2000 and then the Yamaha LPX500, I find it hard for anyone to be dissatisfied with the current projector offering and price points.