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post #2881 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Yes, a true 4K projector but with flaws like undefeatable noise reduction, scaling artifacts, banding, posterization and a lens no where near as good as the one in the RS4500. These 5 very large issues and deficiencies culminate in an image that deprives your projector full potential resolution capabilities that the native 4K panels might give. The JVC has none of these issues and a lens that's at least on par with the 5000ES. And now we're hearing the "fix" for panel degradation might not have even worked, so add that to the list of issues.

Tell Sony to fix these issues and you might have a valid argument. Thank you, come again...
You can't be serious with your description of the 5000.

Either that, or you never spent time with one. Either way, do you really think Sony would release a 60k projector in the the state you are describing and that it would actually have impressive sales numbers? It's selling well because it throws a phenomenal picture, even on very large screens...not because it's riddled with flaws.

Don't you find it odd that your self proclaimed hopelessly flawed Sony 5000 is in the best theaters on AVS with some of the most technologically savvy enthusiasts? I would tell prospective buyers to ask Pro calibrators like Ken Whitcomb, Jim Doolittle, or Jeff Meier what kind of picture it throws, and to resist individual assessments in a very Pro JVC forum and thread.

An interesting note, I just went from a 12" wide 1.3 screen to. 14' wide unity gain and the image didn't degrade at all, but actually improved! Razor sharp and fairly bright, even at 50% laser. Nice to have the lumen headroom. Just a wonderful piece.

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post #2882 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 08:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
You can't be serious with your description of the 5000.
Either that, or you never spent time with one. Either way, do you really think Sony would release a 60k projector in the the state you are describing and that it would actually have impressive sales numbers? It's selling well because it throws a phenomenal picture, even on very large screens, not because it is riddled with flaws.

Don't you find it odd that your self proclaimed hopelessly flawed Sony 5000 is in the best theater's on AVS with some of the most technologically savvy enthusiasts? I would tell prospective buyers to ask Pro calibrators like Ken Whitcom, Jim Doolittle, or Jeff Meier what kind of picture it throws, and to resist individual assessments in a very Pro JVC forum and thread.

An interesting note, I just went from a 12" wide 1.3 screen to. 14' wide unity gain and the image didn't degrade at all, but actually improved! Razor sharp and fairly bright, even at 50% laser. Nice to have the lumen headroom. Just a wonderful piece.
To that same argument, have you seen an RS4500? For that matter have you compared an eshift JVC to any of the Sony 4Ks? I can tell you matter of factly that the overall performance of JVC's less-than-half-costing projector is better than Sony's 6xx native 4K projector and again, it's doing that at HALF the cost. So why is it not possible for JVCs RS4500 to compete in overall performance with Sony's $60000. And again, JVC never made any effort to compete with the 5000ES in brightness. As for why some people are using it in some of "the best" theaters has more to do with lumen output rather than raw image quality. I know ccool96 has mentioned that if there was an RS600-like JVC unit with as much brightness he wouldn't be using the 5000ES in his theater. So "some of the best" theaters have large screens necessitating large lumen output. A lot of 5000ES owners were once Sim2 Lumis owners. Would you also be making an argument that the Sim2 Lumis is better than the VW1000ES, VW1100ES, 665ES, or 675ES or would you say they probably kept the Lumis all this time because there hasn't been anything nicer with the same or more lumen output since it's release? Please don't associate "best theater" with "best image", because several 5000ES owners (ccool96, Rob Hahn, W.Mayer) are using the 5000ES because of it's lumen output, not necessarily because it has the "best" image. I think it would be fun to brightness match the 5000ES by lowering it's laser output and put it against an RS620. I think the results would be astonishing. In fact, It would be fun if @ccool96 put his RS600 against the 5000ES brightness matched and let us know what he thought. Could a projector 1/6th the price give the 5000ES a run for it's money if you take away it's one large advantage? Remember, not all of us have a 14'+ screen. Some of us can "slum" with our 10-12' screens and cope with an eshift JVC or an RS4500 and be perfectly happy.

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post #2883 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Early on, it was reported to be a 3,000 lumen projector, so brightness wise, nobody should have been comparing it to the VW5000. Now in all the other aspects, I would like to see a comparison against the VW5000. I do not recall anybody comparing the RS4500 to the VW675. I mentioned I would have no problem putting the RS4500 up against a VW675, just like I am sure you would be confident to put a VW5000 up against a 675.

Actually Mike, Kris Dearing said a few posts back the contrast levels were comparable to the VW665. The updated contrast figures doesn't even match
the VW665 to be honest. The Z1 I'm sure will have plenty of happy owners , especially when used for the strengths it does possess . It has a great lens
laser light source, 4K panels and laser diming to achieve great dynamic contrast . No doubt the value of extreme native contrast numbers is going to be reevaluated by some who have maintained its supremacy . Sony has always had a good handle on the balance between the two, looks like the Z1 is going
to follow suit. If contrast levels are as good as a VW665, it's a hell of a projector with plenty more features under the hood I'm sure, time will tell.

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post #2884 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Quite the troll these days

One word , Hypocrisy . Nuff said.

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post #2885 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
One word , Hypocrisy . Nuff said.


Nonsense Roxie. I have not trolled anybody. Look up the definition of the word. You come in make quick snips and end it with a 'just sayin' and a sly smile. I have never done that, don't confuse me with other forum members please.
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post #2886 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 09:14 PM
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Unfortunately from the initial hype, there was a lot of expectations from this projector. It doesn't appear(as yet) to have delivered on those initial talked about 'Targets'

It was folly for JVC to think the seasoned consumer who was used to buying JVC's projectors for their most cherished feature - Native Contrast, was going to be satisfied by anything less.

The target design criteria should have included what the RS600 delivers at least in native contrast, 150,000:1 at a 250 lumen output, if the native contrast dropped to 10,000:1 at 2500 - 3000 lumens I don't think too many people would have complained.

Make the chip larger if they have to...and deliver what has been possible to date on the 1080p chips with the addition of the superb lens, excellent processing and laser dimming wizardry.

I hope they sell a few and recoup their costs, but not too many, so they are forced to improve their game.

Everyone is allowed a mistake or two.....I too hope they do a better job in round two.
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post #2887 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
To that same argument, have you seen an RS4500? For that matter have you compared an eshift JVC to any of the Sony 4Ks? I can tell you matter of factly that the overall performance of JVC's less-than-half-costing projector is better than Sony's 6xx native 4K projector and again, it's doing that at HALF the cost. So why is it not possible for JVCs RS4500 to compete in overall performance with Sony's $60000. And again, JVC never made any effort to compete with the 5000ES in brightness. As for why some people are using it in some of "the best" theaters has more to do with lumen output rather than raw image quality. I know ccool96 has mentioned that if there was an RS600-like JVC unit with as much brightness he wouldn't be using the 5000ES in his theater. So "some of the best" theaters have large screens necessitating large lumen output. A lot of 5000ES owners were once Sim2 Lumis owners. Would you also be making an argument that the Sim2 Lumis is better than the VW1000ES, VW1100ES, 665ES, or 675ES or would you say they probably kept the Lumis all this time because there hasn't been anything nicer with the same or more lumen output since it's release? Please don't associate "best theater" with "best image", because several 5000ES owners (ccool96, Rob Hahn, W.Mayer) are using the 5000ES because of it's lumen output, not necessarily because it has the "best" image. I think it would be fun to brightness match the 5000ES by lowering it's laser output and put it against an RS620. I think the results would be astonishing. In fact, It would be fun if @ccool96 put his RS600 against the 5000ES brightness matched and let us know what he thought. Could a projector 1/5th the price give the 5000ES a run for it's money if you take away it's one large advantage? Remember, not all of us have a 14'+ screen. Some of us can "slum" with out 10-12' screens and cope with an eshift JVC or an RS4500 and be perfectly happy.
Just to clarify my point of view since my name was invoked, I do believe that certain projectors are better suited for certain installs. That does not mean I think a certain projector is the "Very Best" but rather the "Very Best for that particular install". I currently own 2 Sony 5000ES projectors, 1 JVC RS600, and I have the RS4500 on order. I also have a handful of other projectors like a DPI M-Vision LED.

Just like it would make no sense for my church to replace its fleet of white shuttle vans with Porsche Cayenne Turbos to carry around senior citizens, nor does the Sony 5000ES make the best choice for every home theater. Yes, Porsche Cayenne's would do the job, but they would be complete unnecessary.

My Sony 5000ES throws an incredible image and its currently the best projector suited for my large screen. It certainly provides me with the best image I have ever seen in my Home Theater. Prior to the Sony 5000ES, I had a DPI Titan Reference, which was the replaced with a Titan Reference 3D, which was then replaced with a full DCI complaint Barco DP-4K cinema projector. All three of the prior projectors cost over $60,000.00, with the Barco being close to $100K. While the Barco cinema units hold there value pretty well, the Titans were sold for less than 20% of what I paid. Just as my car probably lost 50K in value when I drove it off the lot, this is the price I pay to enjoy what I'm passionate about.

Is the Sony 5000ES perfect, definitely not. But do I lose sleep at night that the panels might be degrading, not a chance. Even as often as I upgrade, I always expect a huge loss on cars and electronics. Furthermore, I have just clocked over 1100 hours on my 5000ES, and I haven't lost one single lux in light output. The contrast was also measure just last week, with two separate meters, and it measured between 12K-13K:1.

I use my RS600 on a much smaller screen, currently a 100" diagonal in my master bedroom at one home. It does an incredible job. It is very hard to tell a difference between the RS600 and the Sony 5000ES with 4K content especially when viewed on different size screens. The RS600 is truly incredible for the price. I see no benefit to having a Sony 5000ES projector for a 100" screen, when the JVC does an incredible job at 1/6 the price. I would have a hard time justifying a Sony 5000ES on a screen any smaller than 12' wide. But I also would have a hard time using an RS600 on a screen larger than 12' wide.

This is where I'm excited about the RS4500. I think this projector will be the perfect projector to fill the gap between a $12K JVC RS600 and a $60K Sony 5000ES. I think the RS4500 on a 12' wide screen, that has the stability of laser illumination, true 4K panels, and a top notch lens, will offer a nice option at a reasonable price point. Actually both the Sony 5000ES and the RS4500 seem like a steal to me considering what I was paying just a few years ago for 3chip 1080P DLP projectors.

One other comment about the Sony 5000ES in regards to banding and posterization. Sony did a fantastic job getting out regular firmware updates after its initial release to help with some issues like banding and HDR. I was greatly bothered by banding originally when I received my 5000ES, but after the latest firmware update, it is 99.9% gone. While there may be some posterization visible in the image at times from very close distances, "I" do not notice any issue at all from my seating distance. Some of the streaming 4K content on both Amazon and Netflix is just breathtaking when viewed on a massive screen with the 5000ES. Keep in mind that everyone sees things differently. I know Seegs has a real aversion to any form of posterization in faces and content like that. This is just something I don't see. The banding was something I had a horrible time with and this has all but been eliminated.

My RS600 has a very visible flicker to the image, especially when its first turned on. It almost looks like a strobe light. Its is visible to anyone who looks at it, but after the unit has been on for a few minutes, the lamp seems to stabilize, and it no longer an issue. This is where the Laser portion of the RS4500 will be a welcome upgrade. The Sony 5000ES image is just rock solid, no flicker at all, and I suspect the RS4500 will offer that same stability because of the Laser Illumination. The RS600 definitely has some lens streaking that I find annoying, and sometimes I can still notice "bright corners" but these are nit-picking items that don't bother me during normal viewing. I will also say that Sony has done a great job with its "HDR Contrast" slider. If I wanted to see one thing changed on the JVC RS series, it would be a similar implementation of that.

I am not brand loyal, and I also don't have the time or desire to get on AVS and get into a "PEEING" contest about what or who has the best projector. Every one should buy whatever "They" are happiest with. The bottom line is that all the Sony 4K projectors both lamp and laser based, along with all the JVC eShift and 4K units, are fantastic projectors. People sometimes forget where we came from. When I look back at some of my first ever owned projectors, mainly the Mitsubishi VL2000 and then the Yamaha LPX500, I find it hard for anyone to be dissatisfied with the current projector offering and price points.
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post #2888 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 10:29 PM
 
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Thanks for the clarification. Kind of my point in saying the 5000ES is better suited for your screen, but does not equate to ultimate picture quality simply because it costs more or because you have it in an expensive/large theater. I have a nearly $40,000 Sim2 Lumis here right now. Do I think it's a better image because it has more brightness and a higher cost over my RS500? No. But would that projector be better suited and look better because of the higher brightness on a larger screen? Definitely. If I had a small 100" screen there's no way I'd pair a 5000ES with it. There are better overall images that suit it better. The 675ES or RS620 for instance.

Chris, supposedly the RS620 fixes the issue with a raised black level in HDR mode. This should help tremendously with contrast with HDR content. I'm using a Panasonic UB900 and HDFury Integral to mostly watch 4K HDR -> 4K SDR BT2020 content (occasionally I'll watch in full HDR mode) with my RS500 and measly 10' wide anamorphic screen. It looks excellent.

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post #2889 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
Just to clarify my point of view since my name was invoked, I do believe that certain projectors are better suited for certain installs. That does not mean I think a certain projector is the "Very Best" but rather the "Very Best for that particular install". I currently own 2 Sony 5000ES projectors, 1 JVC RS600, and I have the RS4500 on order. I also have a handful of other projectors like a DPI M-Vision LED.

Just like it would make no sense for my church to replace its fleet of white shuttle vans with Porsche Cayenne Turbos to carry around senior citizens, nor does the Sony 5000ES make the best choice for every home theater. Yes, Porsche Cayenne's would do the job, but they would be complete unnecessary.

My Sony 5000ES throws an incredible image and its currently the best projector suited for my large screen. It certainly provides me with the best image I have ever seen in my Home Theater. Prior to the Sony 5000ES, I had a DPI Titan Reference, which was the replaced with a Titan Reference 3D, which was then replaced with a full DCI complaint Barco DP-4K cinema projector. All three of the prior projectors cost over $60,000.00, with the Barco being close to $100K. While the Barco cinema units hold there value pretty well, the Titans were sold for less than 20% of what I paid. Just as my car probably lost 50K in value when I drove it off the lot, this is the price I pay to enjoy what I'm passionate about.

Is the Sony 5000ES perfect, definitely not. But do I lose sleep at night that the panels might be degrading, not a chance. Even as often as I upgrade, I always expect a huge loss on cars and electronics. Furthermore, I have just clocked over 1100 hours on my 5000ES, and I haven't lost one single lux in light output. The contrast was also measure just last week, with two separate meters, and it measured between 12K-13K:1.

I use my RS600 on a much smaller screen, currently a 100" diagonal in my master bedroom at one home. It does an incredible job. It is very hard to tell a difference between the RS600 and the Sony 5000ES with 4K content especially when viewed on different size screens. The RS600 is truly incredible for the price. I see no benefit to having a Sony 5000ES projector for a 100" screen, when the JVC does an incredible job at 1/6 the price. I would have a hard time justifying a Sony 5000ES on a screen any smaller than 12' wide. But I also would have a hard time using an RS600 on a screen larger than 12' wide.

This is where I'm excited about the RS4500. I think this projector will be the perfect projector to fill the gap between a $12K JVC RS600 and a $60K Sony 5000ES. I think the RS4500 on a 12' wide screen, that has the stability of laser illumination, true 4K panels, and a top notch lens, will offer a nice option at a reasonable price point. Actually both the Sony 5000ES and the RS4500 seem like a steal to me considering what I was paying just a few years ago for 3chip 1080P DLP projectors.

One other comment about the Sony 5000ES in regards to banding and posterization. Sony did a fantastic job getting out regular firmware updates after its initial release to help with some issues like banding and HDR. I was greatly bothered by banding originally when I received my 5000ES, but after the latest firmware update, it is 99.9% gone. While there may be some posterization visible in the image at times from very close distances, "I" do not notice any issue at all from my seating distance. Some of the streaming 4K content on both Amazon and Netflix is just breathtaking when viewed on a massive screen with the 5000ES. Keep in mind that everyone sees things differently. I know Seegs has a real aversion to any form of posterization in faces and content like that. This is just something I don't see. The banding was something I had a horrible time with and this has all but been eliminated.

My RS600 has a very visible flicker to the image, especially when its first turned on. It almost looks like a strobe light. Its is visible to anyone who looks at it, but after the unit has been on for a few minutes, the lamp seems to stabilize, and it no longer an issue. This is where the Laser portion of the RS4500 will be a welcome upgrade. The Sony 5000ES image is just rock solid, no flicker at all, and I suspect the RS4500 will offer that same stability because of the Laser Illumination. The RS600 definitely has some lens streaking that I find annoying, and sometimes I can still notice "bright corners" but these are nit-picking items that don't bother me during normal viewing. I will also say that Sony has done a great job with its "HDR Contrast" slider. If I wanted to see one thing changed on the JVC RS series, it would be a similar implementation of that.

I am not brand loyal, and I also don't have the time or desire to get on AVS and get into a "PEEING" contest about what or who has the best projector. Every one should buy whatever "They" are happiest with. The bottom line is that all the Sony 4K projectors both lamp and laser based, along with all the JVC eShift and 4K units, are fantastic projectors. People sometimes forget where we came from. When I look back at some of my first ever owned projectors, mainly the Mitsubishi VL2000 and then the Yamaha LPX500, I find it hard for anyone to be dissatisfied with the current projector offering and price points.
You sir have too many Toys....if all the playtime is wearing you out, I'll gladly take that JVC RS600 off your hands when you are tired of it. It'll be a mighty fine marriage with my 92' and 106" Dalite High power screens.

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post #2890 of 5254 Old 01-25-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Thanks for the clarification. Kind of my point in saying the 5000ES is better suited for your screen, but does not equate to ultimate picture quality simply because it costs more or because you have it in an expensive/large theater. I have a nearly $40,000 Sim2 Lumis here right now. Do I think it's a better image because it has more brightness and a higher cost over my RS500? No. But would that projector be better suited and look better because of the higher brightness on a larger screen? Definitely. If I had a small 100" screen there's no way I'd pair a 5000ES with it. There are better overall images that suit it better. The 675ES or RS620 for instance.

Chris, supposedly the RS620 fixes the issue with a raised black level in HDR mode. This should help tremendously with contrast with HDR content. I'm using a Panasonic UB900 and HDFury Integral to mostly watch 4K HDR -> 4K SDR BT2020 content (occasionally I'll watch in full HDR mode) with my RS500 and measly 10' wide anamorphic screen. It looks excellent.
I have both the Oppo and Panasonic with an Integral. I find myself satisfied with both HDR 2020 and SDR 20202 on the Sony, because I don't lose anything, like dynamic contrast and the "HDR Contrast" slider makes for easy adjustment. On the JVC I find myself greatly preferring SDR2020.
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post #2891 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post
I am not brand loyal, and I also don't have the time or desire to get on AVS and get into a "PEEING" contest about what or who has the best projector. Every one should buy whatever "They" are happiest with. The bottom line is that all the Sony 4K projectors both lamp and laser based, along with all the JVC eShift and 4K units, are fantastic projectors. People sometimes forget where we came from. When I look back at some of my first ever owned projectors, mainly the Mitsubishi VL2000 and then the Yamaha LPX500, I find it hard for anyone to be dissatisfied with the current projector offering and price points.
Very well said - I find it annoying the way brand fan-boy-ism seems to creep in and pollute these very interesting threads causing them to degenerate into bickering. Its completely unnecessary. Like you I couldn't give a damn what brand badge is on my projector, as long as it throws the best image I can afford - I tip my proverbial hat at your balanced and objective post, and I look forward to hearing your impressions when you get your RS4500.
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post #2892 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 02:32 AM
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I tip my proverbial hat at your balanced and objective post, and I look forward to hearing your impressions when you get your RS4500.
Agreed. Well balanced and objective post ccool96.
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post #2893 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 04:04 AM
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Why not? JVC does that everyday with the rest of Sony's current lineup. What's to stop them doing it again with the 5000ES? Granted, I personally think it won't come in quite as bright as the 5000ES, but I'm willing to bet it will come in at "close enough" and that's plenty justification for most people to buy it especially if they're only asking half or less money for it. You make it sound like Sony performed some kind of miracle with the 5000ES. They added full 18Gbps and HDR support (like they should of for a projector released in 2016) and stuck a laser/phoshor wheel on the end of their 1100ES platform to get more light and you suckers ate it right up and took out a second mortgage to buy it. I'd love to see a brightness matched 1100ES vs 5000ES side by side comparison and laugh when the nearly 6 year old 1100ES looks better. Good to hear you spent more on the 5000ES and it gave you half the contrast performance, the same SXRD panels and lens. What a great decision.
If you read the beginning of this thread there are just some entertaining posts you can't get enough of. And for the record I don't know of one 5000ES owner who had to take out a second mortgage to purchase it. I will say many of us "suckers" are really enjoying the 5000 and how it lights up our screens with excellent motion and clarity. I realize the vast majority here has never seen one in person.

And the majority of negative posts comes from the ones that haven't.
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post #2894 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I would love to see a shootout between the VW5000 and the RS4500.

Well, guess what we are going to do today?

This one arrived today (finally), well packed:




And these are waiting already (well just one of them will be enough).





And a X7000 is waiting also.

And yes, all final series machines, so the times of excuses and spin are finally over, at last!

Now what?



Regards,
Ekki

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post #2895 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 05:07 AM
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Now what?



Regards,
Ekki
OK, I've just set my stopwatch, I expect draft measurements on here by the end of the day!
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post #2896 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
Actually Mike, Kris Dearing said a few posts back the contrast levels were comparable to the VW665. The updated contrast figures doesn't even match
the VW665 to be honest. The Z1 I'm sure will have plenty of happy owners , especially when used for the strengths it does possess . It has a great lens
laser light source, 4K panels and laser diming to achieve great dynamic contrast . No doubt the value of extreme native contrast numbers is going to be reevaluated by some who have maintained its supremacy . Sony has always had a good handle on the balance between the two, looks like the Z1 is going
to follow suit. If contrast levels are as good as a VW665, it's a hell of a projector with plenty more features under the hood I'm sure, time will tell.
You said the contrast is not as good as the 665?

Sound & Vision native of the 665 panel is 6,100:1.
Kris said native of the panel is 8,600:1.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...hRcJGekFE54.97
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post #2897 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 05:15 AM
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Native contrast of the VW550 is about 14,000:1 to 21,000:1

Regards,
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post #2898 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 05:37 AM
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Native contrast of the VW550 is about 14,000:1 to 21,000:1

Regards,
Ekki
Exactly same range of what I measured on my VW675 a week ago. Have to double check with another meter just to confirm, but pretty much spot on.

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post #2899 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
You said the contrast is not as good as the 665?

Sound & Vision native of the 665 panel is 6,100:1.
Kris said native of the panel is 8,600:1.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...hRcJGekFE54.97
Ekki provided this information a week ago, I think many questioned his source and suggested this was not legitimate . Kris only confirmed the identical value interestingly no more or less, just exactly the same .

Thanks again Ekki for always being fair and honest, much valued and appreciated.

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post #2900 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
If you read the beginning of this thread there are just some entertaining posts you can't get enough of. And for the record I don't know of one 5000ES owner who had to take out a second mortgage to purchase it. I will say many of us "suckers" are really enjoying the 5000 and how it lights up our screens with excellent motion and clarity. I realize the vast majority here has never seen one in person.

And the majority of negative posts comes from the ones that haven't.
I'd bet most owners of the 5000 and the 4500 pay cash. This is not he smartest purchase to finance.

That said, Rob Hahn theater (best ever!) uses a 5000 to project on to a 19' screen and the Cinematographer himself says, though not perfect, it looks pretty damn great! The JVC would have no chance there. That said, if you're on a small screen 10-12 ft or less, the comparison would be of interest! I saw them both at CEDIA - they both looked great - (even the JVC @ 1080P on a 16' screen). Hard to justify the increased cost on the 5000 on a smaller screen.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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OK, I've just set my stopwatch, I expect draft measurements on here by the end of the day!
We will provide many results later in our FB-Group.
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Well, guess what we are going to do today?

This one arrived today (finally), well packed:




And these are waiting already (well just one of them will be enough).





And a X7000 is waiting also.

And yes, all final series machines, so the times of excuses and spin are finally over, at last!

Now what?



Regards,
Ekki
I'd love to see a VW550 in the mix too just for the fun of it. What ever the results are I know they will be honest, true, without bias and totally impartial . It's what we have come to expect from Ekki , like it or not
he tells it exactly as it is .

In the end it's not about the "best" it's just about confirming specs against speculation . These are all fantastic projectors, this will determine which one is best suited for your own personal preferences and needs.
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Unfortunately from the initial hype, there was a lot of expectations from this projector. It doesn't appear(as yet) to have delivered on those initial talked about 'Targets'

It was folly for JVC to think the seasoned consumer who was used to buying JVC's projectors for their most cherished feature - Native Contrast, was going to be satisfied by anything less.

The target design criteria should have included what the RS600 delivers at least in native contrast, 150,000:1 at a 250 lumen output, if the native contrast dropped to 10,000:1 at 2500 - 3000 lumens I don't think too many people would have complained.

Make the chip larger if they have to...and deliver what has been possible to date on the 1080p chips with the addition of the superb lens, excellent processing and laser dimming wizardry.

I hope they sell a few and recoup their costs, but not too many, so they are forced to improve their game.

Everyone is allowed a mistake or two.....I too hope they do a better job in round two.
Hate to tell you, but they are selling very well and at a much higher rate than anticipated. Since you pretty much have to double the contrast to see a difference, do you think you can tell the difference between 8,600:1 and 10,000:1? If only going by the contrast specs, you would say the same thing about the VW5000 and yet owners love that projectors.
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post #2904 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Hate to tell you, but they are selling very well and at a much higher rate than anticipated. Since you pretty much have to double the contrast to see a difference, do you think you can tell the difference between 8,600:1 and 10,000:1? If only going by the contrast specs, you would say the same thing about the VW5000 and yet owners love that projectors.
That doesn't mean that's it's necessarily good and translate to future sales though. I think what you are seeing initially is the demand for people looking for laser, native 4k and a lower price point than the VW5000 that are looking to upgrade their respective HTs. The people buying them now are basically buying them blind (unless they attended any of the trade shows) b/c there aren't any thorough reviews available to use to help make an educated buying decision. After the "smoke" clears will tell if it was a success or not. I am anxiously anticipating all of the reviews upcoming.

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post #2905 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
If you read the beginning of this thread there are just some entertaining posts you can't get enough of. And for the record I don't know of one 5000ES owner who had to take out a second mortgage to purchase it. I will say many of us "suckers" are really enjoying the 5000 and how it lights up our screens with excellent motion and clarity. I realize the vast majority here has never seen one in person.

And the majority of negative posts comes from the ones that haven't.
I'd bet most owners of the 5000 and the 4500 pay cash. This is not he smartest purchase to finance.

That said, Rob Hahn theater (best ever!) uses a 5000 to project on to a 19' screen and the Cinematographer himself says, though not perfect, it looks pretty damn great! The JVC would have no chance there. That said, if you're on a small screen 10-12 ft or less, the comparison would be of interest! I saw them both at CEDIA - they both looked great - (even the JVC @ 1080P on a 16' screen). Hard to justify the increased cost on the 5000 on a smaller screen.
I agree completely. I can't imagine any 5000ES owner having to finance the projector. These items are grown-up toys, not investments.

I agree with exactly what you said on screen size. I think the RS4500 will be well suited for a 12' wide screen. Once someone gets up to a 14' wide screen, they should be considering the Sony. Especially if they care about HDR or have a unity gain screen or less with a woven material.

Last edited by ccool96; 01-26-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
You said the contrast is not as good as the 665?

Sound & Vision native of the 665 panel is 6,100:1.
Kris said native of the panel is 8,600:1.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...hRcJGekFE54.97
Perfect example of why you have to be very careful (and generally shouldn't) compare measurements from different people/publications, there are too many variables to know if it's an "apples to apples" comparison or not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I would love to see a shootout between the VW5000 and the RS4500.

Well, guess what we are going to do today?

This one arrived today (finally), well packed:




And these are waiting already (well just one of them will be enough).





And a X7000 is waiting also.

And yes, all final series machines, so the times of excuses and spin are finally over, at last!

Now what?



Regards,
Ekki
Exciting! Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the RS4500. I also plan to compare the RS4500 with one of my 5000ES projectors and my RS600. Unfortunately, I dont expect to see my RS4500 until the very end of January or first few days of February!

Keep us posted!
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post #2908 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by baseball0618 View Post
That doesn't mean that's it's necessarily good and translate to future sales though. I think what you are seeing initially is the demand for people looking for laser, native 4k and a lower price point than the VW5000 that are looking to upgrade their respective HTs. The people buying them now are basically buying them blind (unless they attended any of the trade shows) b/c there aren't any thorough reviews available to use to help make an educated buying decision. After the "smoke" clears will tell if it was a success or not. I am anxiously anticipating all of the reviews upcoming.
A lot of people that are buying them now are dealers and based on the number of people at CEDIA, quite a few people have seen this projector. I have seen it and I have talked quite a bit to a reviewer that has one. Have you seen it?
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post #2909 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Hate to tell you, but they are selling very well and at a much higher rate than anticipated. Since you pretty much have to double the contrast to see a difference, do you think you can tell the difference between 8,600:1 and 10,000:1? If only going by the contrast specs, you would say the same thing about the VW5000 and yet owners love that projectors.
I think what's at question now is the value of high native contrast numbers . I've always maintained that dynamic contrast values are more important, the way dynamic contrast is implemented equally if not more important . A great dynamic range in contrast
that is properly balanced gets the job done with flying colors . High native contrast has always been the bragging rights for the JVC community , now that the native for the new Z1 is confirmed 8600:1 the entire ideology has to be reconsidered in the JVC
community . Sony, Epson, Panasonic , Sim Lumis, DPI and all the rest have been cruising along very happily in the 10K native arena , I'm sure JVC will figure it out . and be as happy as the rest of us . For those that don't know, I own both the JVC RS600 and
the Sony VW675 , happy with both of them .

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post #2910 of 5254 Old 01-26-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Perfect example of why you have to be very careful (and generally shouldn't) compare measurements from different people/publications, there are too many variables to know if it's an "apples to apples" comparison or not.
Yep and that is why I used Kris's measurements for both 665 and 4500.
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