Epson LS10500 4K (enhance) laser projector - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 450Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 1269 Old 09-16-2016, 02:06 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,644
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5168 Post(s)
Liked: 5399
considering the LS10K is coming on 2 years since release, it's probably very unlikely they would update the original model. it's unfortunately part of the early adopter process. This one was just a year too early before UHD release.

how do you think Sony VW1100 owners feel who spent 25K just a few years ago? Many were told by Sony that projector was the future of '4K'. Today they would tell you to buy the VW675.
zombie10k is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 1269 Old 09-16-2016, 02:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darrellh44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1032 Post(s)
Liked: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
considering the LS10K is coming on 2 years since release, it's probably very unlikely they would update the original model. it's unfortunately part of the early adopter process. This one was just a year too early before UHD release.

how do you think Sony VW1100 owners feel who spent 25K just a few years ago? Many were told by Sony that projector was the future of '4K'. Today they would tell you to buy the VW675.
Just because Sony did a similar thing doesn't make it right. When major corporations promise future capability and then charge extra for those features, why should consumers be left holding the bag? That said the most frustrating issue is Epson's bob 'n weave tactics and outright stonewalling, re my discussions with their reps yesterday.
darrellh44 is offline  
post #33 of 1269 Old 09-16-2016, 02:42 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,644
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5168 Post(s)
Liked: 5399
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Just because Sony did a similar thing doesn't make it right. When major corporations promise future capability and then charge extra for those features, why should consumers be left holding the bag? That said the most frustrating issue is Epson's bob 'n weave tactics and outright stonewalling, re my discussions with their reps yesterday.
I agree, not arguing in any regard. I ended up selling the VW1100 once we knew there was no chance of a further update to support the UHD format.

lesson going forward, if it doesn't do everything I want/need out of the box, I won't buy it expecting it may be updated in the future. the unfortunate part of consumer electronics, always something new to sell the following year.
DavidHir likes this.
zombie10k is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 1269 Old 09-16-2016, 05:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
kingwiggi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: UK -> FL, USA
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by kohe321 View Post
So just a few tweaks to the current platform and no major changes. A bit of a bummer, but oh well.

It will probably have the new and improved lens as seen on the 5040, which is already an updated version of the lens that is in the LS10000. This together with the newest version of Epson's pixel shift system should result in a bit better overall image quality. Full DCI P3 coverage that can actually be calibrated and mapped is of course a big selling point as well, giving the option to watch SDR UHD's with a HDfury and get the full color gamut is just great. Though, I was hoping that last thing would be added via firmware to the existing LS10000.
The lens is unchanged, they are using the same Fujinon lens as the LS10000.

The Lens in the new lamp based Epsons come from a different manufacturer but Epson deliberately omitted to mention who.

Trinnov Altitude 32, LCR JBL M2, JBL LSR 708i, 705i, Q-SYS Core 110f, Amps- QSC CXD4.2Q, 4.3Q, 4.5Q
Kaleidescape Strato, Zapitti 4K HDR Duo, Xbox One X, 8TB Tivo Roamio Pro,
JVC RS600 + ISCO IIIL, 158" 2.40:1 AT screen, Calman 5 Enthusiast, i1 Pro 2, i1 Display Pro, Spyder 5, 3D LUT Box
Oppo UDP-205/203, BDP-105, Onkyo DAC-1000s, Onkyo DP-X1 DAP, QNAP TVS-871
kingwiggi is online now  
post #35 of 1269 Old 09-16-2016, 08:44 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ericglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Just below the US in South Florida
Posts: 11,366
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3347 Post(s)
Liked: 1803
To piggyback on Darrell, the Epson reps really didn't seem to have any concrete answers. I can understand if they haven't decided yet or something is pre-production and it hasn't been finalized. You could at least get every one on the same page. It is one of the great things about JVC. You usually can get some straight answers.
darrellh44 likes this.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
Ericglo is online now  
post #36 of 1269 Old 09-19-2016, 10:28 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,247
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2515 Post(s)
Liked: 2193
I wonder if the lens in the 5040/6040 is actually superior to the lens in LS10000/10500?

Too bad about the Epson reps - these guys should be better prepared for an event like Cedia.
DavidHir is offline  
post #37 of 1269 Old 09-19-2016, 11:09 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,039
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11442 Post(s)
Liked: 9043
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Good luck on getting any reliable information from the Epson reps at CEDIA. I was there yesterday and asked two different reps what new hardware changes were made to the LS10500 vs the LS10000. One said there weren't any hardware changes, just software updates to add HDR. The other one said the only hardware change was a new HDMI chipset to allow the added UHD features along with eshifted 4K. When I asked the second one if the new HDMI chips supported 18.2 Gbps, he didn't know.

I then tried to find out if there were any planned updates to support accurate BT2020 mapping for my LS10000. I talked to three different product managers. Their responses ranged from "never", to "maybe we're looking at it", to the "LS10000 is BT2020 accurate now" (and apparently always had been). When I pressed the third guy, Rodrigo I believe his name was, he also mentioned there had been some discussions about offering LS10000 owners an upgrade deal to the LS10500 to address the concerns of owners that are "in the same boat that I'm in", but Epson decided against it. Wait, what??? You just told me there was no problem with the LS10000's BT2020. What boat am I in then with the other LS10000 owners?

I've been chasing the BT2020 issue with Epson for nearly 6 months now. I got pretty much the exact same runaround at CEDIA yesterday, but it only took 15 minutes this time. At this point I'm pretty much done with Epson. I'm very much hoping that JVC comes out with a laser/phospher version of their current 1080p eshift projectors for under $10k in the next year or two.
I could not get a firm answer either.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #38 of 1269 Old 09-19-2016, 11:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
kingwiggi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: UK -> FL, USA
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I wonder if the lens in the 5040/6040 is actually superior to the lens in LS10000/10500?
The sample LS10500 that they had on the Booth still had the old Fujinon lens, they might very well change to the new lens before they go into production though.

Trinnov Altitude 32, LCR JBL M2, JBL LSR 708i, 705i, Q-SYS Core 110f, Amps- QSC CXD4.2Q, 4.3Q, 4.5Q
Kaleidescape Strato, Zapitti 4K HDR Duo, Xbox One X, 8TB Tivo Roamio Pro,
JVC RS600 + ISCO IIIL, 158" 2.40:1 AT screen, Calman 5 Enthusiast, i1 Pro 2, i1 Display Pro, Spyder 5, 3D LUT Box
Oppo UDP-205/203, BDP-105, Onkyo DAC-1000s, Onkyo DP-X1 DAP, QNAP TVS-871
kingwiggi is online now  
post #39 of 1269 Old 09-19-2016, 11:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darrellh44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Dallas
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1032 Post(s)
Liked: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I could not get a firm answer either.
Yes, I'm surprised Epson is able to get away with this lack of transparency. It's like they have the Hillary disease - and I don't mean pneumonia. When it comes to UHD support, it seems they are either lying or stonewalling.
DavidHir and RLBURNSIDE like this.
darrellh44 is offline  
post #40 of 1269 Old 09-19-2016, 11:56 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,039
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11442 Post(s)
Liked: 9043
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellh44 View Post
Yes, I'm surprised Epson is able to get away with this lack of transparency. It's like they have the Hillary disease - and I don't mean pneumonia. When it comes to UHD support, it seems they are either lying or stonewalling.
You have to talk to engineers and I did not see any to talk to at the booth. I have a few questions into Epson right now.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #41 of 1269 Old 09-20-2016, 11:58 AM
Home Theater Enthusiast
 
SOWK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WI
Posts: 5,625
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1238 Post(s)
Liked: 1789
Not to be a party pooper... but I don't think they had HDR on at the demo... even though they said they did.

Wisconsin Home Theater Enthusiasts Meet: Main Thread l Gear For Sale
SOWK Home Theater
SOWK is online now  
post #42 of 1269 Old 09-30-2016, 01:43 PM
Member
 
flyinmunky99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 46
I'm torn between X7000 and waiting for this LS10.5. At 12.5 feet lens to a 120" 1.1 screen matte white in bat cave I don't need massive brightness. Both calibrated would be bright enough for my screen size and not much difference in terms of calibrated lumens in LOW/Eco for normal bluray from what ive read?

The laser is going keep its brightness compared to drop off in jvc eventually but price difference will favour the X7000 by at least 2-3 bulbs. Still the thought of no changing bulb for years is a plus.

I got a feeling id see or be unlucky with seeing vertical banding, 3D flicker, worse motion compared to the Laser Epson by the way people describe how solid the motion and image is on the LS10k.

On other hand the JVC native contrast on paper is huge and after trying the Epson 5040 and being very disappointed I'm worried ill be disappointed in the contrast of the 10.5k

I wish there was a LS10000 near to demo me (uk) I'm seeing a x7000 next week though. Got a feeling laser is going to win overall for me though.

Last edited by flyinmunky99; 09-30-2016 at 01:53 PM.
flyinmunky99 is offline  
post #43 of 1269 Old 09-30-2016, 05:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,879
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2327 Post(s)
Liked: 1422
I am torn between the LS10.5K and he Sony VW675ES. There is just something about the Epson, that image is just rock solid and looks very cinematic, I guess its due to the laser engine. Seen it heaps of times and just love it. Its my favorite PJ image. If it was native 4K I'd be running two of them stacked If I were to choose between the X7 and the LS10 I'd go with the LS.

Note nearly bought a new 9300 yesterday but just as you say i was quite disappointed so backed off. The LS however is in a different league up there with Sony 4K and JVC.
kohe321 likes this.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is offline  
post #44 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 09:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,639
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2424 Post(s)
Liked: 1110
This looks like it will be the one I pull the trigger on but I want to see some in depth testing/reviews first, see how it handles hdr, other improvements from ls10000, etc.
Bandyka likes this.
Ruined is offline  
post #45 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 12:22 PM
Senior Member
 
LumenChip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Had Epson increased the light output from the Laser the LS10500 would be very hard to ignore, even for JVC/Sony die-hards. I am still stumped by Epsons decision to leave the laser source unchanged after 2 years on the market.
Doron Davidoff likes this.
LumenChip is offline  
post #46 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 01:01 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,039
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11442 Post(s)
Liked: 9043
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by LumenChip View Post
Had Epson increased the light output from the Laser the LS10500 would be very hard to ignore, even for JVC/Sony die-hards. I am still stumped by Epsons decision to leave the laser source unchanged after 2 years on the market.
My wish list for this projector was the following:

1. More calibrated lumens.
2. HDR
3. Full 18Gbps HDMI chip.
4. BT2020 compatibility.

If they had done these things, they would have been flying off the shelf.
Bandyka likes this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #47 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 02:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Liked: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinmunky99 View Post
I'm torn between X7000 and waiting for this LS10.5. At 12.5 feet lens to a 120" 1.1 screen matte white in bat cave I don't need massive brightness. Both calibrated would be bright enough for my screen size and not much difference in terms of calibrated lumens in LOW/Eco for normal bluray from what ive read?

...
This is a no-brainier for a bat cave. JVC all the way. Think of why you have a bat in the first place. It's for contrast. And the JVC wins hands down!

The laser/bulb favors bulbs at this point (because of cost). If they had a great DI that needed the speed of the laser, I might feel differently. Bulbs replacement is a PIA, but you likely will only need 1-2 replacements over the time you have it.

This is the 2nd year of production for the JVC. They have most of the bugs out that can be gotten out. The Epson will have firmware bugs - even if the hardware is identical to the 10000. (Which it probably isn't, otherwise they would be offering a firmware update to make the 10000 HDR compatible).

Neither one is ultimately what you want, as the UHD/HDR thing is still in flux, and it will likely be 2-3 more years before it has settled out. So no one can have it right now. And so regardless of what you buy today, you will be in the market for a new one in 3 years.

I also doubt Epson will get rec2020 and HDR correct in this go around right out of the box, and will need a firmware update 3-6 months from when they ship.
rak306 is online now  
post #48 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 02:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 989
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 616 Post(s)
Liked: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by LumenChip View Post

... I am still stumped by Epsons decision to leave the laser source unchanged after 2 years on the market.
I suspect they didn't sell as many 10Ks as they thought they would. So focus R&D on those that sell (the LCD models).
rak306 is online now  
post #49 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 02:54 PM
Member
 
flyinmunky99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
This is a no-brainier for a bat cave. JVC all the way. Think of why you have a bat in the first place. It's for contrast. And the JVC wins hands down!

The laser/bulb favors bulbs at this point (because of cost). If they had a great DI that needed the speed of the laser, I might feel differently. Bulbs replacement is a PIA, but you likely will only need 1-2 replacements over the time you have it.

This is the 2nd year of production for the JVC. They have most of the bugs out that can be gotten out. The Epson will have firmware bugs - even if the hardware is identical to the 10000. (Which it probably isn't, otherwise they would be offering a firmware update to make the 10000 HDR compatible).

Neither one is ultimately what you want, as the UHD/HDR thing is still in flux, and it will likely be 2-3 more years before it has settled out. So no one can have it right now. And so regardless of what you buy today, you will be in the market for a new one in 3 years.

I also doubt Epson will get rec2020 and HDR correct in this go around right out of the box, and will need a firmware update 3-6 months from when they ship.

My concern about the JVC is motion really and reading about vertical banding etc. Which deals with motion better with no FI/ Motion drive, and which is better on lowest settings?
flyinmunky99 is offline  
post #50 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 04:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,708
Mentioned: 468 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6664 Post(s)
Liked: 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinmunky99 View Post
My concern about the JVC is motion really and reading about vertical banding etc. Which deals with motion better with no FI/ Motion drive, and which is better on lowest settings?
The Epson certainly has a calmer more 'still' image than the JVC since there is no electrical arc in the bulb. The JVC has very slight unrest and bulb flicker depending how sensitive you are to see it. I don't see it when the unit is very warmed up though. Both of those have nothing to do with motion however.

Vertical banding on the JVC? I don't see it on mine ever, I have never seen banding on my unit. I don't use any FI settings though.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is offline  
post #51 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 05:00 PM
Member
 
flyinmunky99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
The Epson certainly has a calmer more 'still' image than the JVC since there is no electrical arc in the bulb. The JVC has very slight unrest and bulb flicker depending how sensitive you are to see it. I don't see it when the unit is very warmed up though. Both of those have nothing to do with motion however.

Vertical banding on the JVC? I don't see it on mine ever, I have never seen banding on my unit. I don't use any FI settings though.
Thanks for the information. I had a new Epson 5040 which I returned as found it very disappointing, found contrast to not be great, motion clarity just seemed inconsistent. Image felt flat and no "wow" factor. Couldn't get settled with it.

How long does the jvc take to get fully warmed up roughly?
flyinmunky99 is offline  
post #52 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 05:09 PM
Senior Member
 
LumenChip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
My wish list for this projector was the following:

1. More calibrated lumens.
2. HDR
3. Full 18Gbps HDMI chip.
4. BT2020 compatibility.

If they had done these things, they would have been flying off the shelf.
That is a very reasonable expectation at this stage of the game, only number 2 is promised at this point and that is a blunder. Regardless, I always shudder when I see HDR with no mention of a 18Gbps HDMI output, seems like a formula for bandwidth choking.

I do like this projector, a lot, and unlike most I find the laser appealing and believe there has to be some benefits, image-wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
I suspect they didn't sell as many 10Ks as they thought they would. So focus R&D on those that sell (the LCD models).
That is a possibility, but why stick to your guns with a formula that doesn't work. With most reverting to a WCG & SDR soup, this projector with around 2000 calibrated & stable lumens (and a $500 token price reduction) would be a very convincing buy. The LS10000 was Epson's first Laser attempt and reliability/longevity was a concern, but is no longer a concern for this round.
LumenChip is offline  
post #53 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 05:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,708
Mentioned: 468 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6664 Post(s)
Liked: 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinmunky99 View Post
Thanks for the information. I had a new Epson 5040 which I returned as found it very disappointing, found contrast to not be great, motion clarity just seemed inconsistent. Image felt flat and no "wow" factor. Couldn't get settled with it.

How long does the jvc take to get fully warmed up roughly?

To be honest, by the time I turn on the unit and get myself settled I never have any problems at all. The only time I notice a mild flicker is maybe when the image first lights up on the screen. I find it to be a non issue. But people like to analyse, so here we are.

Forget about comparing the LS to any previous epsons. That would be like comparing a SAAB fighter jet compared to their piece of crap cars. Different league entirely. The LS is an exceptional unit.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is offline  
post #54 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 05:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Javs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7,708
Mentioned: 468 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6664 Post(s)
Liked: 6314
Quote:
Originally Posted by LumenChip View Post
That is a very reasonable expectation at this stage of the game, only number 2 is promised at this point and that is a blunder. Regardless, I always shudder when I see HDR with no mention of a 18Gbps HDMI output, seems like a formula for bandwidth choking.

I do like this projector, a lot, and unlike most I find the laser appealing and believe there has to be some benefits, image-wise.

That is a possibility, but why stick to your guns with a formula that doesn't work. With most reverting to a WCG & SDR soup, this projector with around 2000 calibrated & stable lumens (and a $500 token price reduction) would be a very convincing buy. The LS10000 was Epson's first Laser attempt and reliability/longevity was a concern, but is no longer a concern for this round.

Not really, HDR requires no more bandwidth than SDR. It is merely a metadata flag. The Sony's don't have full 18Gbps chips and they do HDR just fine.

Agree all projectors especially current models and models forthcoming should have the full bandwidth HDMI boards, but its not going to break any bandwidth issues that's for sure unless you start messing with 4k/60p in 10bit.

JVC X9500 (RS620) | 120" 16:9 | Marantz AV7702 MkII | Emotiva XPA-7 | DIY Modular Towers | DIY TPL-150 Surrounds | DIY Atmos | DIY 18" Subs
-
MadVR Settings | UHD Waveform Analysis | Arve Tool Instructions + V3 Javs Curves
Javs is offline  
post #55 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 05:33 PM
Senior Member
 
LumenChip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 366
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Not really, HDR requires no more bandwidth than SDR. It is merely a metadata flag. The Sony's don't have full 18Gbps chips and they do HDR just fine.

Agree all projectors especially current models and models forthcoming should have the full bandwidth HDMI boards, but its not going to break any bandwidth issues that's for sure unless you start messing with 4k/60p in 10bit.
You are half correct.

True, the HDR metadata tells how the content should be displayed, but the container has to have the information available. In general, HDR signals will require around 20 -25% more bandwidth and something will need to be sacrificed for bandwidth limited connections. This is likely the reason why Mike didn't hear a word regarding Rec. BT.2020 in the press release.
LumenChip is offline  
post #56 of 1269 Old 10-01-2016, 06:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Woof Woof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,014
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 453 Post(s)
Liked: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
My wish list for this projector was the following:



1. More calibrated lumens.

2. HDR

3. Full 18Gbps HDMI chip.

4. BT2020 compatibility.



If they had done these things, they would have been flying off the shelf.


So what did they miss out?

Doesn't it have the full 18Gbps HDMI and BT2020 support (albeit only P3 DCI displayable with filter)?

And a HDR slider mode?

So it just missed the first criteria right?
Woof Woof is offline  
post #57 of 1269 Old 10-02-2016, 02:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Bandyka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,879
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2327 Post(s)
Liked: 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinmunky99 View Post
Thanks for the information. I had a new Epson 5040 which I returned as found it very disappointing, found contrast to not be great, motion clarity just seemed inconsistent. Image felt flat and no "wow" factor. Couldn't get settled with it.

How long does the jvc take to get fully warmed up roughly?
Yep I went to buy one but lucky I checked it out before pulling the trigger, same impression as yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post
This is a no-brainier for a bat cave. JVC all the way. Think of why you have a bat in the first place. It's for contrast. And the JVC wins hands down!

The laser/bulb favors bulbs at this point (because of cost). If they had a great DI that needed the speed of the laser, I might feel differently. Bulbs replacement is a PIA, but you likely will only need 1-2 replacements over the time you have it.

This is the 2nd year of production for the JVC. They have most of the bugs out that can be gotten out. The Epson will have firmware bugs - even if the hardware is identical to the 10000. (Which it probably isn't, otherwise they would be offering a firmware update to make the 10000 HDR compatible).

Neither one is ultimately what you want, as the UHD/HDR thing is still in flux, and it will likely be 2-3 more years before it has settled out. So no one can have it right now. And so regardless of what you buy today, you will be in the market for a new one in 3 years.

I also doubt Epson will get rec2020 and HDR correct in this go around right out of the box, and will need a firmware update 3-6 months from when they ship.
It's not even close to a no brainer both have advantages that the other can't compete with but as an overall package the Espon is a much easier machine to live with IMO. Let's just not assume anything until we actually seen one in action. If Epson introduces an HDR slider similar to the upcoming Sony update we could have a winner here. I prefer the Epson laser image to both S and J.

JVC RS620/X9500 in bat cave Anthem MRX-720 + 3xpower amps = 7.1.4, Martin Logan Motion 60XT fronts, ML FX rears, ML Motion 50XT centre, 4 x ML Motion 2 on ceiling Atmos, ML Balanced force 210 as the beast. Panasonic UB900, STAX-3170 earspeakers, HTPC, PS4, PS3, Amiga 500 etc..Epson LS10000 calibration and WCG SDR settings: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post50298297
Bandyka is offline  
post #58 of 1269 Old 10-02-2016, 07:22 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,039
Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11442 Post(s)
Liked: 9043
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
So what did they miss out?

Doesn't it have the full 18Gbps HDMI and BT2020 support (albeit only P3 DCI displayable with filter)?

And a HDR slider mode?

So it just missed the first criteria right?
Not full 18Gbps and did not increase lumens.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #59 of 1269 Old 10-02-2016, 09:10 AM
Senior Member
 
jamesmil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Without full 18Gbps port they won't be able to display HDR from many sources, including the Samsung UHD player which outputs at 4k24 4:4:4 12-bit mode which requires an 18Gbps source...
jamesmil is online now  
post #60 of 1269 Old 10-02-2016, 10:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Woof Woof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,014
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 453 Post(s)
Liked: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Not full 18Gbps.
Odd considering the LCD UHP models get the 18Gbps didnt they?
Woof Woof is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
ls10500

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off