Epson LS10500 4K (enhance) laser projector - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 1280 Old 04-22-2019, 09:53 AM
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Here is the email I got from Xrite;

Our Principal Software Engineer and Color Scientist replied with:

"Lasers have extremely narrow Spectral Power Distributions (SPDs). They are extremely difficult to measure correctly. Also, due to their narrow SPDs, the color is very viewer dependent due to differences between observers.

We should be able to build a gray curve that maintains the correct gamma and consistent chromaticity, but it’s not going to have the correct white point and even if it did have the correct white point, the user probably isn’t going to see it as the correct white point.

I don’t know the full technology of these projectors, but I am guessing that they use a blue laser plus one or more phosphors. As long as at least one part of the SPD is very narrow, these projectors will be difficult to measure and have potentially a high amount of observer metamerism.”

So…our current answer is that while we have not yet tested these laser-based projectors, we would expect a challenge profiling them due to their spiky response (SPD).

Walter
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post #1262 of 1280 Old 04-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Niles Crane View Post
I see no reason that a standard meter couldn't be used to calibrate a laser light-engined projector. Even though the source is coherent blue light, the phosphors are producing the Red and Green. Light is light, whether coherent or incoherent, and the frequency is what you are measuring, not the coherence.
Well, it can depend on the resolution of your spectro.

Official resolution for the i1 pro 2 spectro is 10nm.

Now, you can use an unofficial mode called high res mode which will lower than to 3.3nm with the i1 pro 2.

How good it is was my own question.

But you can see that the blue spike will be not properly captured with 10nm resolution.

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Hello everybody,

did someone / could someone compare the i1 pro2 with argyll driver and High Res mode (3,3nm) to a higher end spectro (5nm or better).
Most people here with high end gear still have a backup/old i1 pro2 around.

That would be great if you could take the time to compare.

Especially interesting would be to measure laser projectors such as those with very spiky blue spectrum:


JVC DLA-Z1



Epson EH-LS10000



Optoma UHZ65



Sony VW760es



@ARROW-AV maybe?
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post #1263 of 1280 Old 04-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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Interesting that the Epson's two lasers are offset around 460nm. I bet that is expressly to spread the power spectral density. The Sony clearly has more output from a single source though and the JVC kills them both; you pays your money.... I will be watching this thread since I hope to add an LS10000 shortly and will want to calibrate it.
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post #1264 of 1280 Old 04-22-2019, 11:33 AM
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Yeah my i1pro does a great job on my VW95ES. My thoughts about getting a laser based projector and using the i1pro were dashed when I got the response from Xrite. From the little research I've done on which meters will work on a laser projector and the costs for one doesn't look promising. It would be cheaper to get it done by a calibrator as I suspect it would only have to be done once for the life of the projector.

But this might be all for not anyway as it looks like Epson won't be producing these any longer. So it will be updating to a new Sony 4K when the time comes as they still use the same lamp technology as my VW95ES.

This question is off topic but how would you guys compare the new Sony top of the line 85" flat panels to these projectors?

Walter

Last edited by WTS; 04-22-2019 at 12:07 PM.
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post #1265 of 1280 Old 04-22-2019, 01:08 PM
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Can someone share their settings for both the LS10500 and the Panasonic DP-UB820? I've been able to find bits and pieces, which I've tried, but there always tends to be issues where something seems to be a bit off. I'm partly starting to wonder if I have a faulty UB820.

The problem: When I adjust some of the settings, I will go into the UB820 settings and it has a tendency to back out of the sub-menus for HDMI (I will enter a sub-menu and within 5-10 second it automatically backs out so I am unable to change the SDR to HDR conversion or the other settings). Once that issue is resolved, I will set it for SDR-REC2020, but the LS10500 continues to show SDR-REC709 even though I have it displaying a UHD-HDR material. I changed other settings (back and forth) and it will seemingly correct itself. In addition, when it goes to SDR-REC709, the projector will not allow me to adjust or select the HDR conversion settings (they are all grayed out).

I have the video/audio HDMI from the UB820 going to HDMI 1 on the projector, and the audio HDMI going to my Classe SSP-800. I was also having issues with the Classe processor receiving audio signals for a short period of time as well, so it's getting me to think that there is a problem with the UB820.

I'm hoping I just have one or two settings wrong. I know I would still need to calibrate the picture, but this hoping to get a start.

Thanks,
Darren
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post #1266 of 1280 Old 04-23-2019, 05:22 PM
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Interesting... JVC seems to believe you can use the Spyder5 or i1pro2 to calibrate a Z1...

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...ationsoft.html

I wonder if their software takes the blue spike I to account?

Anyhow, disappointing to learn that I'd have to spend over $1k on a meter if I want to do my own cals. I'd get one if I knew for sure I would get the N5/N7, bit the BenQ9060 and possible LS11000 are not out of the running.

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post #1267 of 1280 Old 04-27-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmOilerFan View Post
Can someone share their settings for both the LS10500 and the Panasonic DP-UB820? I've been able to find bits and pieces, which I've tried, but there always tends to be issues where something seems to be a bit off. I'm partly starting to wonder if I have a faulty UB820.

The problem: When I adjust some of the settings, I will go into the UB820 settings and it has a tendency to back out of the sub-menus for HDMI (I will enter a sub-menu and within 5-10 second it automatically backs out so I am unable to change the SDR to HDR conversion or the other settings). Once that issue is resolved, I will set it for SDR-REC2020, but the LS10500 continues to show SDR-REC709 even though I have it displaying a UHD-HDR material. I changed other settings (back and forth) and it will seemingly correct itself. In addition, when it goes to SDR-REC709, the projector will not allow me to adjust or select the HDR conversion settings (they are all grayed out).

I have the video/audio HDMI from the UB820 going to HDMI 1 on the projector, and the audio HDMI going to my Classe SSP-800. I was also having issues with the Classe processor receiving audio signals for a short period of time as well, so it's getting me to think that there is a problem with the UB820.

I'm hoping I just have one or two settings wrong. I know I would still need to calibrate the picture, but this hoping to get a start.

Thanks,
Darren
I figured out my problem. I was using an older HDMI cable and have since changed it out for a HDMI 2.0 Premium High Speed and all is working as it should.

Thanks,
Darren
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post #1268 of 1280 Old 04-30-2019, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danlw2 View Post
Interesting... JVC seems to believe you can use the Spyder5 or i1pro2 to calibrate a Z1...

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...ationsoft.html

I wonder if their software takes the blue spike I to account?

Anyhow, disappointing to learn that I'd have to spend over $1k on a meter if I want to do my own cals. I'd get one if I knew for sure I would get the N5/N7, bit the BenQ9060 and possible LS11000 are not out of the running.
A Spyder should only be used to initiate the JVC autocal process after which point a better meter (i1pro at minimum) should be used to then tweak the custom cal. I'm not sure if the Z1 allows one to use the i1pro from the get-go.

Laser projectors like the LS10500 really need something like a Jeti 1211 (or similar) for accuracy, however, these are very expensive. Hiring a pro like Chad B who uses one is another good option. There is a good discussion about this in the LS10000 thread.

Last edited by DavidHir; 04-30-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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post #1269 of 1280 Old 05-12-2019, 08:01 AM
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At what distance is the screen door effect visible with the LS10500; i.e. at what seating distance is the SDE no longer visible?
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post #1270 of 1280 Old 06-07-2019, 11:09 AM
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Just curious has Epson giving up on this model because this projector had so much potential ?

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post #1271 of 1280 Old 06-07-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Just curious has Epson giving up on this model because this projector had so much potential ?
Rumour has it that a replacement is due later in the year and it will be Native 4K. How true this is I can’t say but quite a few people are saying it and some who are probably in a position to know better than most.

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post #1272 of 1280 Old 06-07-2019, 11:27 AM
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If Epson bring this projector with true 4K panels & at least 1800-2200 lumens with a laser I will jump ship asap. Guess we will see IFA & CEDIA coming in few months.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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post #1273 of 1280 Old 07-07-2019, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
If Epson bring this projector with true 4K panels & at least 1800-2200 lumens with a laser I will jump ship asap. Guess we will see IFA & CEDIA coming in few months.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I was skeptical about dropping the coin on the 10500 as it is much more expensive here in China. I ordered a factory refurbished 9600e off of E-Bay at a silly low price. Despite being a lowly 1080p projector, I see no screen door effect, black levels are very satisfactory, things like star fields are dynamite, the wireless transmitter works extremely well, and the 3D is generally flawless. Once I thought I caught it ghosting but I played the same scene on my OLED and it was obviously a problem with the source material. The 3D from this thing is bright, almost entirely cross-talk free, shows no flicker, and never gives me a headache. Seeing bright 3D with great contrast and great black levels, was a revelation for me. It also a does a cool trick when fed by my Panny ub9000. If I play a UHD Blu-Ray the Panny down coverts it into 1080p with 10-bit 444 color and even processes HDR10 and remaps the color to Rec.709 and the 9600e plays ball! UHD Blu-rays look great on this thing. So, now if I get a UHD Blu-Ray (or even a regular Blu-ray that is exceptionally dark) like Alien that I know will be very dark, I feed it to the 9600e and I have yet to be disappointed. Of course, I still love my native 4K Sony and still watch most 2D films on that. Anyway, I am now a convert to Epson and laser projectors. Bring on the ls11000! Take my money Epson! If it is native 4K I will make it my main squeeze.
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post #1274 of 1280 Old 07-07-2019, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Rumour has it that a replacement is due later in the year and it will be Native 4K. How true this is I can’t say but quite a few people are saying it and some who are probably in a position to know better than most.
Given what Epson has done in the commercial space, I would find it hard to believe that they will not release a native 4K laser projector for home cinema. That is leaving a lot of money on the Table. Even at ten grand such a projector would be a steal.
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post #1275 of 1280 Old 07-07-2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
If Epson bring this projector with true 4K panels & at least 1800-2200 lumens with a laser I will jump ship asap. Guess we will see IFA & CEDIA coming in few months.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
They just need to improve their grey uniformity (for my tastes).
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post #1276 of 1280 Old 07-08-2019, 12:33 AM
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They just need to improve their grey uniformity (for my tastes).
At least in the recent models they included user facing controls to allow you to adjust for this.
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post #1277 of 1280 Old 07-08-2019, 06:03 AM
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I’ve just received back my ls10500 which I had sent to Epson for service (under warranty) due to a dust blob issue. The Epson service report states its had a new optical enigine fitted. Now I had only just had the Epson calibrated a week or so ago. Anyone know if this new optical engine will have any effect on its calibration?

Edit.

Can answer this myself. The new optical engine has made a massive difference. Unfortunately my picture settings are way off now. The convergence is a lot better mind. The casing lid looks new too. It came back with protective stickers over the Epson logos.

So apart from having the original serial number in the menu/bottom cover one would think it’s a new unit. Kind of makes up for loosing a few quid having it calibrated........ (wish I hadn’t mind )

Last edited by magicj1; 07-09-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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post #1278 of 1280 Old 07-14-2019, 01:58 PM
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hello guys

Im building my fathers basement Home Theater so im looking to get a projector for him. My Theater room is still not finished and i think it will be done in 4-6 months. I bought the EPSON 10500 a year ago used it only had 250 hours used got lucky there. I was reading at the JVC NX7 projector and the reviews are looking very promising. Since i will buy the projector anyways, which projector will produce the best image quality ? It will be on a light controlled dedicated home theater room.
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post #1279 of 1280 Old 07-14-2019, 03:22 PM
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hello guys

Im building my fathers basement Home Theater so im looking to get a projector for him. My Theater room is still not finished and i think it will be done in 4-6 months. I bought the EPSON 10500 a year ago used it only had 250 hours used got lucky there. I was reading at the JVC NX7 projector and the reviews are looking very promising. Since i will buy the projector anyways, which projector will produce the best image quality ? It will be on a light controlled dedicated home theater room.
Hands down, the NX7.
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post #1280 of 1280 Old 07-14-2019, 09:33 PM
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Hands down, the NX7.
Thanks i will get the nx7 for me then thank you so much.
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