Epson LS10500 4K (enhance) laser projector - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 1269 Old 04-22-2019, 09:53 AM
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Here is the email I got from Xrite;

Our Principal Software Engineer and Color Scientist replied with:

"Lasers have extremely narrow Spectral Power Distributions (SPDs). They are extremely difficult to measure correctly. Also, due to their narrow SPDs, the color is very viewer dependent due to differences between observers.

We should be able to build a gray curve that maintains the correct gamma and consistent chromaticity, but it’s not going to have the correct white point and even if it did have the correct white point, the user probably isn’t going to see it as the correct white point.

I don’t know the full technology of these projectors, but I am guessing that they use a blue laser plus one or more phosphors. As long as at least one part of the SPD is very narrow, these projectors will be difficult to measure and have potentially a high amount of observer metamerism.”

So…our current answer is that while we have not yet tested these laser-based projectors, we would expect a challenge profiling them due to their spiky response (SPD).

Walter
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post #1262 of 1269 Old 04-22-2019, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Niles Crane View Post
I see no reason that a standard meter couldn't be used to calibrate a laser light-engined projector. Even though the source is coherent blue light, the phosphors are producing the Red and Green. Light is light, whether coherent or incoherent, and the frequency is what you are measuring, not the coherence.
Well, it can depend on the resolution of your spectro.

Official resolution for the i1 pro 2 spectro is 10nm.

Now, you can use an unofficial mode called high res mode which will lower than to 3.3nm with the i1 pro 2.

How good it is was my own question.

But you can see that the blue spike will be not properly captured with 10nm resolution.

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Hello everybody,

did someone / could someone compare the i1 pro2 with argyll driver and High Res mode (3,3nm) to a higher end spectro (5nm or better).
Most people here with high end gear still have a backup/old i1 pro2 around.

That would be great if you could take the time to compare.

Especially interesting would be to measure laser projectors such as those with very spiky blue spectrum:


JVC DLA-Z1



Epson EH-LS10000



Optoma UHZ65



Sony VW760es



@ARROW-AV maybe?
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post #1263 of 1269 Old 04-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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Interesting that the Epson's two lasers are offset around 460nm. I bet that is expressly to spread the power spectral density. The Sony clearly has more output from a single source though and the JVC kills them both; you pays your money.... I will be watching this thread since I hope to add an LS10000 shortly and will want to calibrate it.
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post #1264 of 1269 Old 04-22-2019, 11:33 AM
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Yeah my i1pro does a great job on my VW95ES. My thoughts about getting a laser based projector and using the i1pro were dashed when I got the response from Xrite. From the little research I've done on which meters will work on a laser projector and the costs for one doesn't look promising. It would be cheaper to get it done by a calibrator as I suspect it would only have to be done once for the life of the projector.

But this might be all for not anyway as it looks like Epson won't be producing these any longer. So it will be updating to a new Sony 4K when the time comes as they still use the same lamp technology as my VW95ES.

This question is off topic but how would you guys compare the new Sony top of the line 85" flat panels to these projectors?

Walter

Last edited by WTS; 04-22-2019 at 12:07 PM.
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post #1265 of 1269 Old 04-22-2019, 01:08 PM
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Can someone share their settings for both the LS10500 and the Panasonic DP-UB820? I've been able to find bits and pieces, which I've tried, but there always tends to be issues where something seems to be a bit off. I'm partly starting to wonder if I have a faulty UB820.

The problem: When I adjust some of the settings, I will go into the UB820 settings and it has a tendency to back out of the sub-menus for HDMI (I will enter a sub-menu and within 5-10 second it automatically backs out so I am unable to change the SDR to HDR conversion or the other settings). Once that issue is resolved, I will set it for SDR-REC2020, but the LS10500 continues to show SDR-REC709 even though I have it displaying a UHD-HDR material. I changed other settings (back and forth) and it will seemingly correct itself. In addition, when it goes to SDR-REC709, the projector will not allow me to adjust or select the HDR conversion settings (they are all grayed out).

I have the video/audio HDMI from the UB820 going to HDMI 1 on the projector, and the audio HDMI going to my Classe SSP-800. I was also having issues with the Classe processor receiving audio signals for a short period of time as well, so it's getting me to think that there is a problem with the UB820.

I'm hoping I just have one or two settings wrong. I know I would still need to calibrate the picture, but this hoping to get a start.

Thanks,
Darren
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post #1266 of 1269 Old 04-23-2019, 05:22 PM
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Interesting... JVC seems to believe you can use the Spyder5 or i1pro2 to calibrate a Z1...

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...ationsoft.html

I wonder if their software takes the blue spike I to account?

Anyhow, disappointing to learn that I'd have to spend over $1k on a meter if I want to do my own cals. I'd get one if I knew for sure I would get the N5/N7, bit the BenQ9060 and possible LS11000 are not out of the running.

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post #1267 of 1269 Old 04-27-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdmOilerFan View Post
Can someone share their settings for both the LS10500 and the Panasonic DP-UB820? I've been able to find bits and pieces, which I've tried, but there always tends to be issues where something seems to be a bit off. I'm partly starting to wonder if I have a faulty UB820.

The problem: When I adjust some of the settings, I will go into the UB820 settings and it has a tendency to back out of the sub-menus for HDMI (I will enter a sub-menu and within 5-10 second it automatically backs out so I am unable to change the SDR to HDR conversion or the other settings). Once that issue is resolved, I will set it for SDR-REC2020, but the LS10500 continues to show SDR-REC709 even though I have it displaying a UHD-HDR material. I changed other settings (back and forth) and it will seemingly correct itself. In addition, when it goes to SDR-REC709, the projector will not allow me to adjust or select the HDR conversion settings (they are all grayed out).

I have the video/audio HDMI from the UB820 going to HDMI 1 on the projector, and the audio HDMI going to my Classe SSP-800. I was also having issues with the Classe processor receiving audio signals for a short period of time as well, so it's getting me to think that there is a problem with the UB820.

I'm hoping I just have one or two settings wrong. I know I would still need to calibrate the picture, but this hoping to get a start.

Thanks,
Darren
I figured out my problem. I was using an older HDMI cable and have since changed it out for a HDMI 2.0 Premium High Speed and all is working as it should.

Thanks,
Darren
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post #1268 of 1269 Old 04-30-2019, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danlw2 View Post
Interesting... JVC seems to believe you can use the Spyder5 or i1pro2 to calibrate a Z1...

https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...ationsoft.html

I wonder if their software takes the blue spike I to account?

Anyhow, disappointing to learn that I'd have to spend over $1k on a meter if I want to do my own cals. I'd get one if I knew for sure I would get the N5/N7, bit the BenQ9060 and possible LS11000 are not out of the running.
A Spyder should only be used to initiate the JVC autocal process after which point a better meter (i1pro at minimum) should be used to then tweak the custom cal. I'm not sure if the Z1 allows one to use the i1pro from the get-go.

Laser projectors like the LS10500 really need something like a Jeti 1211 (or similar) for accuracy, however, these are very expensive. Hiring a pro like Chad B who uses one is another good option. There is a good discussion about this in the LS10000 thread.

Last edited by DavidHir; 04-30-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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post #1269 of 1269 Old 05-12-2019, 08:01 AM
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At what distance is the screen door effect visible with the LS10500; i.e. at what seating distance is the SDE no longer visible?
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