The Official Sony VPL-VW550ES/ VPL-VW675ES Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 2036 Old 11-28-2016, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
Motion was one of the main reasons why I don't own a JVC, however as strange as it is it used give me a headache but when we compared them side by side (without interpolation) they looked identical. Go figure.

FI on the JVC is definitely a no go for me as I am extra sensitive. The only one I can watch without FI is the LS, even the Sony bothered me sometimes.
Yep, we did much better than side by side though, both units were overlapped and more or less in focus to the point it almost was possible to watch an entire film with both projectors simultaneously projecting. And sure enough as I had tested back when I bought my RS500 and sold my 300ES (To Bandyka btw) the motion was identical on both units, you could tell this since with moving images, pans and what not, both images per consistently perfecrly in focus with each other, indicating the motion is one and the same.

We did however in UHD resolutions see the RS500 suffer from extra input lag over the Sony so, in this instance the JVC image fell behind th Sony but this was actual lag overall, probably a 1/10th of a second or so... I have no reason to doubt though that if we could have lagged the video on the Sony we could have got the back in sync again and seen the same motion performance once again from both units.

I keep saying I feel like when people say bad motion on the JVC they are referring to the way the panel holds each frame and replaces it with the next frame, I think this is very slightly different to how the Sony panels work. Both have the same panel refresh rate, but I can sure tell any time I look for it that the Sony appears to have less of a subtle flicker.

But the Sony had its own issues I didnt like, the JVC has flicker, the Sony had wobbles in the panel, for every quirk of either projector you could name a counter-issue with the other brand and vice versa

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post #32 of 2036 Old 11-28-2016, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Yep, we did much better than side by side though, both units were overlapped and more or less in focus to the point it almost was possible to watch an entire film with both projectors simultaneously projecting. And sure enough as I had tested back when I bought my RS500 and sold my 300ES (To Bandyka btw) the motion was identical on both units, you could tell this since with moving images, pans and what not, both images per consistently perfecrly in focus with each other, indicating the motion is one and the same.

We did however in UHD resolutions see the RS500 suffer from extra input lag over the Sony so, in this instance the JVC image fell behind th Sony but this was actual lag overall, probably a 1/10th of a second or so... I have no reason to doubt though that if we could have lagged the video on the Sony we could have got the back in sync again and seen the same motion performance once again from both units.

I keep saying I feel like when people say bad motion on the JVC they are referring to the way the panel holds each frame and replaces it with the next frame, I think this is very slightly different to how the Sony panels work. Both have the same panel refresh rate, but I can sure tell any time I look for it that the Sony appears to have less of a subtle flicker.

But the Sony had its own issues I didnt like, the JVC has flicker, the Sony had wobbles in the panel, for every quirk of either projector you could name a counter-issue with the other brand and vice versa
Which is why own neither anymore

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post #33 of 2036 Old 11-29-2016, 05:50 AM
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Which is why own neither anymore

Do I understand correctly that good/higher end DLP doesn't have that issue with panning motion blur?
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post #34 of 2036 Old 11-29-2016, 03:30 PM
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Do I understand correctly that good/higher end DLP doesn't have that issue with panning motion blur?
Those have other issues as I understand.

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post #35 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 12:23 AM
 
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Do I understand correctly that good/higher end DLP doesn't have that issue with panning motion blur?
DLP has much higher motion resolution and refresh rates than LCOS, but the motion blur is caused by the camera settings when the movie was filmed. With 1080p 24hz material it is very hard to see a difference between LCOS and DLP.
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post #36 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 02:00 PM
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'The RS600 has advantages of a faster board at 18Gbps and hits P3 100%, the Sony about 87% of P3.'


What is the current or near future limitation that 10Gbps has compared to an 18Gbps. Or conversely, those that have the 10Gbps Sonys are they having buyers remorse for lack of 18Gbps?


Secondly, does the Sony 87% P3 look much less ( saturated?) than on the 100% RS600?
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post #37 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 02:25 PM
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There is a constant argument over this as current content does not require 4:4:4 so 10gbps is enough for 24fps content but who knows what the future holds.
The irony is only JVC has 18Gbps boards which will allow you to play games in 60fps HDR WCG full chroma but due to it's lag it's near impossible to play games on. So catch 22.

As for DCI at the moment most movies do not take advantage of the full DCI space but I expect this will likely change, I would opt for more horsepower in this space as this gives the most impact.

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post #38 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bandyka View Post
There is a constant argument over this as current content does not require 4:4:4 so 10gbps is enough for 24fps content but who knows what the future holds.
The irony is only JVC has 18Gbps boards which will allow you to play games in 60fps HDR WCG full chroma but due to it's lag it's near impossible to play games on. So catch 22.

As for DCI at the moment most movies do not take advantage of the full DCI space but I expect this will likely change, I would opt for more horsepower in this space as this gives the most impact.
What do you mean most movies don´t take advantage of the DCI space? All UHD movies today takes advantage of this within bt2020.
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post #39 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 04:06 PM
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What do you mean most movies don´t take advantage of the DCI space? All UHD movies today takes advantage of this within bt2020.
You know exactly what I mean. Not "full advantage". Yet.

This is Sony's argument that they only display 87% as that is what currently being utilized mostly.

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post #40 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 04:19 PM
 
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You know exactly what I mean. Not "full advantage". Yet.

This is Sony's argument that they only display 87% as that is what currently being utilized mostly.
So if a movie don´t take 100% use of DCI it is not fully DCI?? How many BD movies do you think takes fully advantage of bt709?? What do you think is the least important saturation point when you calibrate to bt709 and why??
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post #41 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 05:19 PM
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So if a movie don´t take 100% use of DCI it is not fully DCI?? How many BD movies do you think takes fully advantage of bt709?? What do you think is the least important saturation point when you calibrate to bt709 and why??
100% Saturation is the least important

Isn't that also why when we 'Calibrate' to BT2020 we should actually be looking at more like 50% saturation since with regards to UHD BR thats pretty much where all the colour that matters is?
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post #42 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 06:16 PM
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There is a constant argument over this as current content does not require 4:4:4 so 10gbps is enough for 24fps content but who knows what the future holds.
The irony is only JVC has 18Gbps boards which will allow you to play games in 60fps HDR WCG full chroma but due to it's lag it's near impossible to play games on. So catch 22.

As for DCI at the moment most movies do not take advantage of the full DCI space but I expect this will likely change, I would opt for more horsepower in this space as this gives the most impact.


With respect to DCI, so from the end user perspective , visually, for current and near future BR UHD, does the higher JVC capability strut it's stuff beyond the Sony , or is it too small a difference that is not noticed or perhaps noticed only in very few instances?


18 vs 10, then is something that appears to have relevance only for games today, but not BR UHD. Are streamed UHD movies in 24 or 60fps? And I guess for broadcast UHD tv which I assume would be at 60fps, then at that time today's JVC is future proofed. Has there been any indication of when UHD broadcasts might occur? And maybe even more relevant , will anyone still have todays current crop of projectors when UHD is broadcast over cable to be concerned about the board speed?
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post #43 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 09:07 PM
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So if a movie don´t take 100% use of DCI it is not fully DCI?? How many BD movies do you think takes fully advantage of bt709?? What do you think is the least important saturation point when you calibrate to bt709 and why??
Who said anything about not being DCI? Andreas questioning the world again, I'll leave you to it mate

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post #44 of 2036 Old 11-30-2016, 09:08 PM
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100% Saturation is the least important

Isn't that also why when we 'Calibrate' to BT2020 we should actually be looking at more like 50% saturation since with regards to UHD BR thats pretty much where all the colour that matters is?
Which is what I meant but it takes an open mind to understand it
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post #45 of 2036 Old 12-01-2016, 01:40 AM
 
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You know exactly what I mean. Not "full advantage". Yet.

This is Sony's argument that they only display 87% as that is what currently being utilized mostly.
What do you mean with yet here then?


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Who said anything about not being DCI? Andreas questioning the world again, I'll leave you to it mate
You need to stop with that I am questioning the world, you have a lot to learn about video (so do I). And to ask questions is how we learn.

And many of your statements really needs to be questioned.
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post #46 of 2036 Old 12-01-2016, 04:35 AM
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move on please, or move out of the thread

thanks
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post #47 of 2036 Old 12-01-2016, 02:51 PM
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What do you mean with yet here then?




You need to stop with that I am questioning the world, you have a lot to learn about video (so do I). And to ask questions is how we learn.

And many of your statements really needs to be questioned.
My ignore list thanks you for feeding it .See ya.

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post #48 of 2036 Old 12-01-2016, 04:53 PM
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Looking forward to getting my eyes and hands on a 675 very soon!
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post #49 of 2036 Old 12-01-2016, 05:08 PM
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Looking forward to getting my eyes and hands on a 675 very soon!
Been waiting for mine for over 2 weeks now! Ordered through Magnolia. They must be in high demand they've been backordered forever. Excited though.
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post #50 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 12:51 AM
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I got mine yesterday even if the delivery was scheduled for mid december, really excited to hook it up this weekend.
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Anyone upgrading from the 665 to the 675, and if so what's the major differences (real world!) that you're seeing?
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post #52 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 02:03 AM
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Been waiting for mine for over 2 weeks now! Ordered through Magnolia. They must be in high demand they've been backordered forever. Excited though.
B&H Photo has a few in stock. That's where I got mine from. It was overnighted also for about $40 to get it last Friday for weekend installation. I also grabbed a 50ft Celerity HDMI over Fiber with Detachable Ends cable from MyCableMart to drive the signal and it is phenomenal. Crazy clear with very quick reponse times. The cable is about as thick as four sticks of hard spaghetti and my picture is un frickin real. And I've never seen 3D this good in my life. With the Reality Creation feature it's absolutely stunning. Just stunning.
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post #53 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 03:26 PM
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B&H Photo has a few in stock. That's where I got mine from. It was overnighted also for about $40 to get it last Friday for weekend installation. I also grabbed a 50ft Celerity HDMI over Fiber with Detachable Ends cable from MyCableMart to drive the signal and it is phenomenal. Crazy clear with very quick reponse times. The cable is about as thick as four sticks of hard spaghetti and my picture is un frickin real. And I've never seen 3D this good in my life. With the Reality Creation feature it's absolutely stunning. Just stunning.

I've been contemplating the 675 myself, one of my concerns was 3D on the 675. I believe I read a review that stated the 665 displayed ghosting and that surprised me as the VW600 was pretty much ghost free . The RS600 I own now has stellar 3D and I'd hate to give that up now that I'm use to it.
The RS600 is rated 1900 lumens not sure what the actual calibrated number is . The 675 is rated 1800 lumens, calibrated I believe by Enki to 1650 . They are probably very close calibrated and as you know every lumen counts for 3D.


Would you mind telling me some details of your setup ? Throw distance, screen material model and gain, anamorphic lens if you have one and how dark is your room ? Also which player are you using , do you have the HDFury Integral or Lumagen Pro for managing the HDR to SDR ?


I'm on the fence about making a switch at this point, I really think some progress will be make in the 4K arena next year from both Sony and JVC. JVC is a great projector but the Sony 4K image is a more stable natural looking one and the motion works better for me. If JVC can do a 4K chip and retain the stellar contrast it will certainly be on my radar.
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post #54 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 03:28 PM
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I got mine yesterday even if the delivery was scheduled for mid december, really excited to hook it up this weekend.


They were supposed to show up in Canada end of November, now it's going to be the new year apparently.

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post #55 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 04:09 PM
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Looking forward to getting my eyes and hands on a 675 very soon!

Are you buying one for yourself to use in a different location or just buying this out of curiosity ? Assuming you still have the VW5000 certainly.

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post #56 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 04:14 PM
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I got mine yesterday even if the delivery was scheduled for mid december, really excited to hook it up this weekend.

Does the 675 have FI for 4K ? I understood it was a feature but reading the review by Ekki from Cine4home it almost seems as though it was omitted because of a heating issue with the chip dedicated to FI. It's not clear in the translation.

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW 885ES , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , SVS PC13-Ultra .
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post #57 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 04:48 PM
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Does the 675 have FI for 4K ? I understood it was a feature but reading the review by Ekki from Cine4home it almost seems as though it was omitted because of a heating issue with the chip dedicated to FI. It's not clear in the translation.
If you're referring to Frame Interpolation, yes it does and it works very well. It's called MotionFlow and depending on the signal, it has I think 6 different variations. Very smooth and fluid on everything I threw at it from 3D MVC MKV to 4K UHD Blu-ray. Also, keep in mind that the default Picture and Feature settings for all modes, including Gaming, are well done also right out of the box. I've had to do very little tweaking to get the perfect picture.

AVR: Denon AVR-X7200WA | 4K: Oppo UDP-203 | Media: Ryzen 1800X 32GB DDR4 HCPC, Synology DS3615xs 172TB | Gaming: PS4 Pro/PSVR 10TB, PS3 | Speakers: Polk LSiM: 1x706c, 2x707, 4x900LS, 4x702F/X | Subs: 2xSVS PB4000, 2xSVS PC12+, 5xButtkicker BK-LFE | Vid: Sony VPL-VW885ES | Amp: Emotiva XPA7 Gen 3, Parasound 2125, 2xQSC GX3 | Power: 3xFurman Elite 20 PFi | UPS: APC SMT3000, 2xSMT2200 | Screen/Misc: 138" 2.35:1 Stewart CIMA Neve, Harmony Elite
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post #58 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 05:31 PM
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If you're referring to Frame Interpolation, yes it does and it works very well. It's called MotionFlow and depending on the signal, it has I think 6 different variations. Very smooth and fluid on everything I threw at it from 3D MVC MKV to 4K UHD Blu-ray. Also, keep in mind that the default Picture and Feature settings for all modes, including Gaming, are well done also right out of the box. I've had to do very little tweaking to get the perfect picture.
You have a Sony 675 ?

As reported by Ekki and Sony spec sheet, on the 675, I am pretty sure MotionFlow is not available with a 4k source.
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post #59 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 05:46 PM
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I've been contemplating the 675 myself, one of my concerns was 3D on the 675. I believe I read a review that stated the 665 displayed ghosting and that surprised me as the VW600 was pretty much ghost free . The RS600 I own now has stellar 3D and I'd hate to give that up now that I'm use to it. The RS600 is rated 1900 lumens not sure what the actual calibrated number is. The 675 is rated 1800 lumens, calibrated I believe by Enki to 1650. They are probably very close calibrated and as you know every lumen counts for 3D.
The brightness is about the same as what we experienced on the Optoma HD37, which is very good, and I'm sure will be sufficient for you as well. I haven't seen any Ghosting at all on my unit and even when operating the glasses on the Bright setting which is the default. I'm also only using the glasses recommended for the projector, which do deliver a brighter, clearer image overall. Sony TDG-BT500A 3D Glasses. The picture is plenty Bright even at the default settings. And the 3D pic appears to be upscaled to 4K for each eye. So with a clearer picture and upping the Reality Creation a little bit, you've more than likely never experienced 3D like what the 675 can put out. Unless you go with their higher end models of course.

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Would you mind telling me some details of your setup ? Throw distance, screen material model and gain, anamorphic lens if you have one and how dark is your room ? Also which player are you using , do you have the HDFury Integral or Lumagen Pro for managing the HDR to SDR?
I'm throwing at right around 13' to a 120" diagonal screen. The make/model is in my sig. The gain is 1.1, special coated, fiberglass backed. Excellent luminescence. I've also been considering upgrading to a Da-Lite motorized screen but can't visually see any reason on why I should. The picture is phenomenal and I have a hard time believing that the Da-Lite will improve the picture. If I'm wrong, someone tell me why the upgrade would be worthwhile.

Standard Sony lens. Regarding the 4K BR player, I'm using the Philips for now. I was about to go with the Panasonic but decided to wait for the Oppo, so I can compare the two and get the better of the two. I let the Sony do all of the image processing and disabled that functionality in my Denon X7200WA. No other image processing takes place at this point.

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I'm on the fence about making a switch at this point, I really think some progress will be make in the 4K arena next year from both Sony and JVC. JVC is a great projector but the Sony 4K image is a more stable natural looking one and the motion works better for me. If JVC can do a 4K chip and retain the stellar contrast it will certainly be on my radar.
I can see the 675 being the projector to beat moving forward for quite a while. And with HLG already being in place for 4K UHD broadcasts, with no other 4K projector even having HLG yet, the 675 is creating quite a bit of space between it and the closest competitor IMO. I'm thoroughly satisfied and content enough to not be able to justify another projector purchase for years. There would have to be major very noticeable enhancements to make me upgrade. Even my wife has been blown away at the performance of this projector and feels that this was money well spent and a worthwhile upgrade/investment. She thought I was nuts to spend $15K on a "projector". She doesn't feel that way anymore at all because now she knows that the money was spent on a "visual experience" not just a projector.

AVR: Denon AVR-X7200WA | 4K: Oppo UDP-203 | Media: Ryzen 1800X 32GB DDR4 HCPC, Synology DS3615xs 172TB | Gaming: PS4 Pro/PSVR 10TB, PS3 | Speakers: Polk LSiM: 1x706c, 2x707, 4x900LS, 4x702F/X | Subs: 2xSVS PB4000, 2xSVS PC12+, 5xButtkicker BK-LFE | Vid: Sony VPL-VW885ES | Amp: Emotiva XPA7 Gen 3, Parasound 2125, 2xQSC GX3 | Power: 3xFurman Elite 20 PFi | UPS: APC SMT3000, 2xSMT2200 | Screen/Misc: 138" 2.35:1 Stewart CIMA Neve, Harmony Elite

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post #60 of 2036 Old 12-02-2016, 07:53 PM
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You have a Sony 675 ?

As reported by Ekki and Sony spec sheet, on the 675, I am pretty sure MotionFlow is not available with a 4k source.
On second thought, I need to double-check and confirm that. And you're most likely right. Unless they squeaked a last minute change in there for the RTM devices. I just assumed that the option was still there for all formats. It must be hidden at certain times. But I'll tell you what. If it doesn't have it, it sure delivers a smooth playback for 4K HDR content.

AVR: Denon AVR-X7200WA | 4K: Oppo UDP-203 | Media: Ryzen 1800X 32GB DDR4 HCPC, Synology DS3615xs 172TB | Gaming: PS4 Pro/PSVR 10TB, PS3 | Speakers: Polk LSiM: 1x706c, 2x707, 4x900LS, 4x702F/X | Subs: 2xSVS PB4000, 2xSVS PC12+, 5xButtkicker BK-LFE | Vid: Sony VPL-VW885ES | Amp: Emotiva XPA7 Gen 3, Parasound 2125, 2xQSC GX3 | Power: 3xFurman Elite 20 PFi | UPS: APC SMT3000, 2xSMT2200 | Screen/Misc: 138" 2.35:1 Stewart CIMA Neve, Harmony Elite
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