The Official Sony VPL-VW550ES/ VPL-VW675ES Owners Thread - Page 54 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1591 of 2056 Old 10-16-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
Disappointing...but at high frame rates is the key wording...is that ONLY 60 Hz or 50 and 60 Hz?
If 30 and 24 are OK with 4k HDR at 10 bit then it is what I originally thought and what the marketing info suggested.
Hi there.
Yes it means 50/60 hz HDR 4K. Other modes have excellent image quality.

I have shown it before but the marketing info on the website says and I copy and paste:

Future-proofed support for latest standards
The VPL-VW550ES can project content at up to 60 frames per second (fps) in 4K (at colour signal YCbCr 4:2:0 / 10 bit) for even smoother images with superior colour and realism. Support for HDCP 2.2 lets you enjoy the latest 4K content services.


Simply not accurate on that colour and realism promise at the mode singled out.
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post #1592 of 2056 Old 10-16-2017, 06:05 PM
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Yes Marketing...and I was very skeptical as well, but knew that they did not say with HDR! so by omission, they get away with confusing us...it is more realistic as it is 10 bit and not 8 bit! At the time, it was the best one could get at a reasonable? cost. Also, they had greater than the 10.2 Gb chipset that was available, and to my knowledge 18Gb chipsets were not available (or at best very limited) in 2016 and no content took advantage of that at the time. Getting 13+ Gb was a very pleasant surprise.

Nevertheless, I hear you loud and clear...and am not a fan of marketing at all...

Disclaimer...I agree with you.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
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post #1593 of 2056 Old 10-17-2017, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
Yes Marketing...and I was very skeptical as well, but knew that they did not say with HDR! so by omission, they get away with confusing us...it is more realistic as it is 10 bit and not 8 bit! At the time, it was the best one could get at a reasonable? cost. Also, they had greater than the 10.2 Gb chipset that was available, and to my knowledge 18Gb chipsets were not available (or at best very limited) in 2016 and no content took advantage of that at the time. Getting 13+ Gb was a very pleasant surprise.

Nevertheless, I hear you loud and clear...and am not a fan of marketing at all...

Disclaimer...I agree with you.
Hi Norms.

It inferred HDR by default as the signal has to be 10 bit to qualify for HDR, and also HDR is the only mode that pertains to HDCP2.2 and 4K in respect of latest and future standards.

But yes, there wording has plenty of full stops, and iffy structure, so they can argue 'you read it wrong'.

One part of it cannot be misconstrued though, regardless of the specs and that is the 'smooth and realistic' part. Whilst that again is subjective, reality is what it pertains to and banding or posterisation cannot be deemed realistic or smooth by any reasonable person.

Also my call from Sony yesterday said that the signal referred to is, due to hardware limitations down-sampled to 8bit anyway at high frame rates and they said a firmware update would not fix it!
If only the video engine could do a good job of full level chroma up-conversion on HDR, we wouldn't even be discussing this as even bit depth is not the actual issue.

I other words, the marketing may be full of bluster and be interpretable many ways when picking over it, but the problem actually is that the hardware in the device isn't capable of fully and correctly processing the image for display and its attempt to do so makes it look unnatural. Either omit the mode and have done with it, if it isn't 'much in use yet' or at least get someone to proof view it and see if it fulfils the promise of 'smooth and realistic' before releasing the item widely for sale.

I always set my sources and displays to 60hz as I prefer the look of it. Personal choice but that is my M.O. and one of the reasons that marketing hit home with me. I thought, great this is now at the level that I will be able to pull the trigger and use it is I prefer and want for the next half a decade or so without needing to look for anything else. That is why I avoided the 520, it had 8 bit written all over it everywhere and as such I avoided it and waited. As I would have with this if they had been more honest in the spiel.
It is of no actual consequence if content is readily available natively for that mode or not. Indeed, having content available would still not improve the render of the image. So if it is not a widely used mode, ditch it for a couple of years, until the full on chips are 'cheaper', but don't add it now and then just half bake the application of it for the sake of a flaky sales point.

Also I bought a £399 Philips 4K (not UHD certified) HDR TV in 2016 that has a full 18Gbps chipset and MHL too! Some might now argue it only has an 8 bit panel (something I dispute at the moment but will look into) but even if it does, it shows 4K 60hz HDR images at any signal you throw at it and they always look 'smooth and realistic'. All for only around 4% of the cost of this projector!

Oh and my 2015 Pioneer (SC-LX89) receiver has full fat 18Gbps HDCP 2.2 chipset too.

Incidentally, I am guessing this is why Sony doesn't subscribe to the UHD Premium alliance. It would mean their products would *have* to process and display at 10 bit without any internal trickery.

Marketing skulduggery be damned!

Cheers.

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post #1594 of 2056 Old 10-17-2017, 04:45 AM
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No need to keep the frustration pouring out...I spent quite a lot of time trying to decipher their marketing last year when I bought the projector when it first came out. Lots of emails to Sony, and most dealers (and Sony reps) had no in-depth knowledge about HDR. I knew going in that 50/60 would most likely not be handled at 10 bit and could not even get an answer as to whether they had an 18 Gb chipset (fingers were crossed), that we know is required. Lots of earlier discussions at the beginning of this thread on that.

However, I don't game or didn't stream (now starting to) so using UHD (also new at the time with 4k HDR) I was satisfied at the time. I am again, quite satisfied that it has a 13 Gb or so HDMI chipset rather than the 10.2 Gb, which confused most of us at the time.

For the 50/60 at 10 bit, we know it requires the 18 Gb chipset, which the current generation has now finally gotten to, but again, not being a gamer, I didn't think I needed it. Now with DV, HDR10+ and stubborn streamers (who won't allow native output or 24p) this is becoming more of an issue especially with processors that also "pass 4kHDR" supposedly, but not quite in every form...

Future proof should never be used. My Meridian and Proceed processors (and other card/cage based) were indeed future proof as well!

I call it revenge of the nerds ever since digital took over the world.

Normally, I wouldn't get into these discussions, but not much else is being discussed, so why not?

Have a good day!
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post #1595 of 2056 Old 10-17-2017, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normandia View Post
No need to keep the frustration pouring out...I spent quite a lot of time trying to decipher their marketing last year when I bought the projector when it first came out. Lots of emails to Sony, and most dealers (and Sony reps) had no in-depth knowledge about HDR. I knew going in that 50/60 would most likely not be handled at 10 bit and could not even get an answer as to whether they had an 18 Gb chipset (fingers were crossed), that we know is required. Lots of earlier discussions at the beginning of this thread on that.

However, I don't game or didn't stream (now starting to) so using UHD (also new at the time with 4k HDR) I was satisfied at the time. I am again, quite satisfied that it has a 13 Gb or so HDMI chipset rather than the 10.2 Gb, which confused most of us at the time.

For the 50/60 at 10 bit, we know it requires the 18 Gb chipset, which the current generation has now finally gotten to, but again, not being a gamer, I didn't think I needed it. Now with DV, HDR10+ and stubborn streamers (who won't allow native output or 24p) this is becoming more of an issue especially with processors that also "pass 4kHDR" supposedly, but not quite in every form...

Future proof should never be used. My Meridian and Proceed processors (and other card/cage based) were indeed future proof as well!

I call it revenge of the nerds ever since digital took over the world.

Normally, I wouldn't get into these discussions, but not much else is being discussed, so why not?

Have a good day!
Hi Normsky. (I hope you don't mind me calling you that, but it is what I called a very dear friend of mine who died of cancer a few years ago, and it just makes me feel nice).

Not frustration, just a want to make it as clear to all as possible.

As for you taking the plunge with a view to 10 bit not being handled correctly, then that is a conscious decision you made personally and were willing to accept it if it turned out to be so.
e.g. It is not my fault I didn't have the expectation/and willingness to put up with any shortcomings you say you did, without any reference to any information you may have had, or heard.

Indeed, I read official reviews and as much info as I could find at the time (none of Sony's previous 'affordable' projectors had even broached 10 bit 4k HDR so there was no precedent or info out there on its quality or accuracy) so I think I can be forgiven for reasonably taking the marketing as read, in expecting the inclusion of it to have been properly applied, tested and of sufficient visual quality.

You are quite correct, futureproof should be outlawed in marketing materials as nothing ever truly is. But by the same token they did say 'current and future standards....'
I think the person responsible for letting this iteration of these fine machines out of the door without full product testing in every aspect, should be sent on their way for dropping ball so badly.

Regards.
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post #1596 of 2056 Old 10-26-2017, 06:24 PM
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OK, back from Windows World with a USB Fat32 with newly downloaded update zip, unzipped on Windows machine and only file on the USB.
Insert it after verifying 5.002, restart and .... NOTHING
Several power off and ons and still nothing.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
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post #1597 of 2056 Old 10-27-2017, 06:10 PM
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Make sure to put the folder on the USB drive, not just the file.
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post #1598 of 2056 Old 11-11-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by kaggy View Post
Dave, are you sure about this? Sony's official specs say "The VPL-VW675ES can project content at up to 60 frames per second (fps) in 4K (at color signal YCbCr 4:2:0 / 8 bit) for even smoother images with superior color and realism."

http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/pdfs/...eet_090916.pdf

I also notice significant color banding anytime I try to output 4k60p HDR, either through my PS4 or UHD player. Turning on/off deep color has no impact.
Sorry can anyone help me me please i have the sony 550se projector and a xbox one x the projector wont work with the xbox in hdr can anyone help me how to get it to work if it will
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post #1599 of 2056 Old 11-11-2017, 10:38 AM
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Sorry can anyone help me me please i have the sony 550se projector and a xbox one x the projector wont work with the xbox in hdr can anyone help me how to get it to work if it will
Justmitch

I would suggest posting this in the VW285 or VW385 thread , that's where the majority of the gamers are at present , most of the owners here are not gamers, I do believe . The VW550 shares most of the same internally , the issues and any solutions will be is the same as with the VW285/ VW385 .
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post #1600 of 2056 Old 11-11-2017, 11:13 AM
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Vw550es with xbox x

Hi all
Can anyone help me iv got the sony vw550es projetor and i have just got the xbox one x i cant get the projector to work with some games that are in hdr and the xbox wont show all the ticks in Green its fine on my tv but with the 550 only some of the ticks are Gtreen its saying the projector wont play hdr games witch I thought it wound .
I see there is an enhanced format in the settings is that something i need to look at ?
Is it that the xbox is nort recognising my 550 will do
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Originally Posted by justmitch View Post
Hi all

Can anyone help me iv got the sony vw550es projetor and i have just got the xbox one x i cant get the projector to work with some games that are in hdr and the xbox wont show all the ticks in Green its fine on my tv but with the 550 only some of the ticks are Gtreen its saying the projector wont play hdr games witch I thought it wound .

I see there is an enhanced format in the settings is that something i need to look at ?

Is it that the xbox is nort recognising my 550 will do

Justmitch

Yes try switching HDMI Signal Format setting to Enhanced and report back. That allows the higher bandwidth for 4K 60p HDR 4:2:0 10 bit games/movies.
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post #1602 of 2056 Old 11-12-2017, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Yes try switching HDMI Signal Format setting to Enhanced and report back. That allows the higher bandwidth for 4K 60p HDR 4:2:0 10 bit games/movies.
Thanks very much will give it a go
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post #1603 of 2056 Old 11-13-2017, 01:46 AM
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Yes try switching HDMI Signal Format setting to Enhanced and report back. That allows the higher bandwidth for 4K 60p HDR 4:2:0 10 bit games/movies.
Hi
Yes it has worked thanks but sometime i loose the picture it just goes off so i have to reset stuff to get it to work but if i set it on standard instead of enhanced it works fine on enhanced it will work fine sometimes then suddenly i will loose picture any ideas why this would happen?
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Hi

Yes it has worked thanks but sometime i loose the picture it just goes off so i have to reset stuff to get it to work but if i set it on standard instead of enhanced it works fine on enhanced it will work fine sometimes then suddenly i will loose picture any ideas why this would happen?

Justmitch

Sounds to me like a cable issue, like length, or maybe one of your HDMI devices.
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Sounds to me like a cable issue, like length, or maybe one of your HDMI devices.
Thanks
I do have a 10 meter cable running to the projector its the cable they sold me when i got the sony 4k 550 projetor with her was about 12 months ago i would have thought it would be up to spec I suppose best to ring and ask them ? All my other cables are new and up to the latest spec
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post #1606 of 2056 Old 11-13-2017, 06:03 AM
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Thanks
I do have a 10 meter cable running to the projector its the cable they sold me when i got the sony 4k 550 projetor with her was about 12 months ago i would have thought it would be up to spec I suppose best to ring and ask them ? All my other cables are new and up to the latest spec




Justmitch

I think your problems are likely related to the HDMI cables, some options below.


HDMI cables tested : https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...l#post52755273


On older HD passive cables that are inside walls and cannot be removed there is yet another option a HDMI accelerator : https://metrahometheater.com/hdm-ga1.html
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I think your problems are likely related to the HDMI cables, some options below.


HDMI cables tested : https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...l#post52755273


On older HD passive cables that are inside walls and cannot be removed there is yet another option a HDMI accelerator : https://metrahometheater.com/hdm-ga1.html
Thanks will look at it
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I’m having serious branding issues with the Xbox one x on my 675. I have a middle Atlantic fiber optic hdmi and using Xbox provided hdmi


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post #1609 of 2056 Old 11-13-2017, 04:35 PM
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I’m having serious branding issues with the Xbox one x on my 675. I have a middle Atlantic fiber optic hdmi and using Xbox provided hdmi
The banding process is a byproduct of how Sony has made the projectors able to accepted 4k/60hz 10bit signals. There is only speculation as to the real cause, and whether firmware could fix it. It should not be really apparent at 4k/24p 10bit. I also have a 675es and an Xbox One X (and PS4 Pro). Based on my experience, the banding varies wildly by title. For example, the newest Uncharted game had minimal banding at 4k/HDR. However, COD WWII has lots of banding. It's a case by case basis, and you can always disable HDR/10bit color to reduce the banding.

Note: At times the banding is in the source, and different setups will all display it. Also, some will note that a subset of TVs have similar banding present.
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post #1610 of 2056 Old 11-14-2017, 04:05 AM
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The banding process is a byproduct of how Sony has made the projectors able to accepted 4k/60hz 10bit signals. There is only speculation as to the real cause, and whether firmware could fix it. It should not be really apparent at 4k/24p 10bit. I also have a 675es and an Xbox One X (and PS4 Pro). Based on my experience, the banding varies wildly by title. For example, the newest Uncharted game had minimal banding at 4k/HDR. However, COD WWII has lots of banding. It's a case by case basis, and you can always disable HDR/10bit color to reduce the banding.

Note: At times the banding is in the source, and different setups will all display it. Also, some will note that a subset of TVs have similar banding present.
Hi.

The banding can be made to appear on any source sending an HDR signal by simply increasing the frame rate over 30hz.(50/60hz).

TV's that cost a fraction of what these projectors cost showing a little banding is a lot more forgivable than on a luxury item that costs as much as a new car.

It presents high frame rate HDR images in a way that is not natural and can be extremely distracting (depending on personal tastes, tolerance and expectation levels etc.)

If you can get by never using 50 or 60hz in 4K HDR, you will have no real issues, but if you are an ardent gamer who requires the fastest frame rates and lowest latency, you will probably be left feeling more than a little robbed.

Cheers.
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post #1611 of 2056 Old 11-14-2017, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CollectedDust View Post
The banding process is a byproduct of how Sony has made the projectors able to accepted 4k/60hz 10bit signals. There is only speculation as to the real cause, and whether firmware could fix it. It should not be really apparent at 4k/24p 10bit. I also have a 675es and an Xbox One X (and PS4 Pro). Based on my experience, the banding varies wildly by title. For example, the newest Uncharted game had minimal banding at 4k/HDR. However, COD WWII has lots of banding. It's a case by case basis, and you can always disable HDR/10bit color to reduce the banding.

Note: At times the banding is in the source, and different setups will all display it. Also, some will note that a subset of TVs have similar banding present.
Agree 100% .

I cannot comment on gaming, I only watch movies in my theater , also do not stream 60hz.

The only movie I ever watched 4K 60hz was Billy Lynn's half time walk , I never even noticed banding, if it was there it did not draw my attention. Watching that three times was enough for a life time.

Comparing my VW675 to the RS600 at the time there was plenty of banding on both from the source, just as you mentioned . This banding was VERY obvious, not something subtle in the background as most are describing with banding here . Even then like the banding you and most are describing it is specific to 60hz material , infrequent and mostly in certain background areas with content of sky, clouds, smoke and so on .

On the RS600 the mosquito noise was certainly more distracting and did not limit itself to any one specific type of content, it was just less on some . I would never give up the image Sony 4K produced especially when you factor in the superior motion , calmness and delineation of image . At least with banding there is a choice, run content on 24 or 30hz or forgo HDR ( as most do anyway) in lieu of SDR retaining HDR highlights and BT2020. Many are doing this regardless of projector anyway as HDR
is just not manageable for most individuals , the results poor.

But there are even other solutions, all that is required is an actual decision . Right now the choices are to accept the little bit of banding associated with 60hz only or run content 24/30hz . There are more expensive projectors that can eliminate this issue
and other projectors that can limit the banding associated with 60hz if you can accept the undesirable characteristics of those projectors .

I sold my RS600 took the loss and moved on . Complaining about what I did not like about the RS600 relentlessly serves no purpose, I just made a rational decision and moved on, like most do .

There might be a fly in the ointment here, but you can by another ointment, however, the fly's still exist in those too. Some companies make you believe the fly is invisible, but nope, they are there , even in the best ointments.

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Last edited by roxiedog13; 11-14-2017 at 05:57 AM.
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post #1612 of 2056 Old 11-14-2017, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Yamfinger View Post
Unfortunately there appears to be no port in a storm for 4k HDR gamers that want to stick to the two top projector brands.

Sony has banding (although I don't see it as much as I expected to in my limited testing) and there are reports of heavy ghosting on a JVC with low latency enabled.

So pick your poison. Some color banding (or turn off HDR which isn't all that on projectors) versus ghosting (or play at 120ms lag time).

The situation definitely sucks.
Just a note, thats 1 user with no others able to replicate the issue.

That user had a service center updated firmware to fix CMD, and its clear they broke something while doing it, and its the only user to report the issue. The banding on the Sony's has been confirmed by a great number of users no contention there.

Low Latency works great on this years JVC's and last years, I have used it extensively. I have both year models on my shelf right now. No ghosting ever seen here. Also I actually find native motion better with it switched on with both models. I have a feeling with it on, the PJ wipes the previous pixel states quicker than with it off, resulting in a better motion appearance.

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post #1613 of 2056 Old 11-15-2017, 07:56 PM
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Hi.



The banding can be made to appear on any source sending an HDR signal by simply increasing the frame rate over 30hz.(50/60hz).



TV's that cost a fraction of what these projectors cost showing a little banding is a lot more forgivable than on a luxury item that costs as much as a new car.



It presents high frame rate HDR images in a way that is not natural and can be extremely distracting (depending on personal tastes, tolerance and expectation levels etc.)



If you can get by never using 50 or 60hz in 4K HDR, you will have no real issues, but if you are an ardent gamer who requires the fastest frame rates and lowest latency, you will probably be left feeling more than a little robbed.



Cheers.


I’d gladly force it to 30hz if I could


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post #1614 of 2056 Old 11-16-2017, 08:05 PM
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Does the lumagen pro or the hd fury allow you to control forcing the source to 30 hz?


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post #1615 of 2056 Old 11-16-2017, 08:05 PM
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Also does anyone have any good settings for 4k HDR movies and then some for games as well?


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post #1616 of 2056 Old 11-21-2017, 12:34 PM
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Hi all,
A while back I sent my 675es into Sony for a repair for some pink lines on the screen. They sent me a new unit (Not b stock, or refurbished). I have decided I want the 885es, so have not opened the unit yet. Anyone have a good idea on how to move something like this? I posted in on my local craigslist in San Diego but no bites. Also any ideas what would be a reasonable move it fast price to list it for, perhaps on eBay?

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post #1617 of 2056 Old 11-21-2017, 01:01 PM
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Hi all,
A while back I sent my 675es into Sony for a repair for some pink lines on the screen. They sent me a new unit (Not b stock, or refurbished). I have decided I want the 885es, so have not opened the unit yet. Anyone have a good idea on how to move something like this? I posted in on my local craigslist in San Diego but no bites. Also any ideas what would be a reasonable move it fast price to list it for, perhaps on eBay?

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Post everywhere I suppose. On this forum in the classifieds, e-bay, Audiogon etc . A poster in the classifieds here sold his for $8500, a new unit with around 150 hours as I recall , he sold it quickly . I have the VW885 on order as well, had the VW675 before
that .

Good luck!

Dedicated Theater: Sony VPL VW5000 , Panamorph DCR & ISCO III L Anamorphic Lens, Draper TecVision XT1800X Screen, 2.40:1 134" diagonal curved , Denon AVR-X8500 , 9.2.6 Atmos, Panasonic UB900, Oppo 203, Lumagen Pro 4440 , (3) Paradigm CI Elite E7-L+C+R fronts, , (2) CI Pro P80-IW Rear, (2) Paradigm SA-ADP In-wall Surround, (6) SIG-1.5R-30 v.3 In-Ceiling, Subwoofers: (2) SVS SB-16 Ultra , (1) SVS PC13-Ultra .
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post #1618 of 2056 Old 11-21-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Garth Jacobsen View Post
Hi all,
A while back I sent my 675es into Sony for a repair for some pink lines on the screen. They sent me a new unit (Not b stock, or refurbished). I have decided I want the 885es, so have not opened the unit yet. Anyone have a good idea on how to move something like this? I posted in on my local craigslist in San Diego but no bites. Also any ideas what would be a reasonable move it fast price to list it for, perhaps on eBay?

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That is interesting as the newer 550/675s are supposed to have 'improved' lenses and 'more stable' lens mechanisms (Whatever that means).
I can fully understand you wanting to move over to the 760/885 however. Quite the difference in price though.
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post #1619 of 2056 Old 11-21-2017, 02:04 PM
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That is interesting as the newer 550/675s are supposed to have 'improved' lenses and 'more stable' lens mechanisms (Whatever that means).
I can fully understand you wanting to move over to the 760/885 however. Quite the difference in price though.
Does anyone know how I can tell if the one they sent me is the "improved" version without opening the box? Thanks for the advice from the prior poster as well.

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post #1620 of 2056 Old 11-21-2017, 02:28 PM
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Does anyone know how I can tell if the one they sent me is the "improved" version without opening the box? Thanks for the advice from the prior poster as well.

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Hi. No probs.
That, as they say, is the million dollar question.
Do you know what the serial number is of the unit without opening the box?
It would be a fairly high number I would have thought.
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