Official JVC RS520/RS620 (X7500/X9500) Owner's Thread - Page 171 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5101 of 5112 Old 02-25-2020, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Did you hear the filter click when switching between Rec709 and Rec709F? Sometimes a new profile doesn’t work properly until after reboot.



Did you have this problem only after running Autocal? What are the gamma setting?
Yes - I even power cycled the projector after installing the rec709f profile just to make sure. I definitely hear it click in and out when changing.

And yes - the problem seems to have started following autocal. Gamma is st.2084, but I tried Custom 1 with 2.4 selected (which is what I use for SDR) and I see the same problem.

If I use the factory HDR profile with the default st.2084 gamma the picture looks much better. It's still not great (which is why I'm going through this), but it's not blown out like in the images above.
- Dave
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post #5102 of 5112 Old 02-25-2020, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dth122 View Post
And yes - the problem seems to have started following autocal. Gamma is st.2084, but I tried Custom 1 with 2.4 selected (which is what I use for SDR) and I see the same problem.
What input was connected to the projector during autocal? There was a report that a 4K input can lead to autocal errors, although that was on an earlier model.

Try playing an 1080p SDR movie and run autocal in log only mode, and see if it makes any difference.
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post #5103 of 5112 Old 02-25-2020, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
What input was connected to the projector during autocal? There was a report that a 4K input can lead to autocal errors, although that was on an earlier model.

Try playing an 1080p SDR movie and run autocal in log only mode, and see if it makes any difference.
It has been the S&M disc, with either HDR or SDR patterns being displayed depending on which profile I'm calibrating.

Are you suggesting I play a 1080p SDR disc when I autocal the HDR profile? I guess it's worth a try.
- Dave
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post #5104 of 5112 Old 03-09-2020, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
What input was connected to the projector during autocal? There was a report that a 4K input can lead to autocal errors, although that was on an earlier model.

Try playing an 1080p SDR movie and run autocal in log only mode, and see if it makes any difference.
That's what we have below. The first column is my 1080p config logged with 1080p SDR playing, the second column is my HDR config logged with 1080p SDR playing and the third column is my HDR config logged with 4k HDR content playing.



A few notes and thoughts:
- I still can't get that green on the SDR config dialed in. It's not bad, but it should be perfect. This isn't the biggest concern.
- Also not my biggest concern, but it looks like I still have gamma droop in the SDR config ever after autocal. I thought it would take care of that.
- I have no idea why the color temps vary so widely between measurement runs. I know not to expect perfection at the lower levels since I'm using the i1Pro, but I think there should be some consistency above 25% or so.
- I can confirm that whenever I'm in HDR mode, the Lv's measured for all stimulus above 50% gray are basically the same. They measure the same and when I look at the pattern, it doesn't change for different levels. The gamma graph is accurate based on what I'm seeing.

I'm not sure what to do from here. I could factory reset, reflash the original config from Autocal and try again. Besides that, I'm at a loss.

One thing that isn't clear - what gamma graph should I be looking for on HDR? Should it be a straight 2.2 line? And should I measure in Normal mode instead of bt.2084?
- Dave
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post #5105 of 5112 Old 03-09-2020, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dth122 View Post
That's what we have below. The first column is my 1080p config logged with 1080p SDR playing, the second column is my HDR config logged with 1080p SDR playing and the third column is my HDR config logged with 4k HDR content playing.

A few notes and thoughts:
- I still can't get that green on the SDR config dialed in. It's not bad, but it should be perfect. This isn't the biggest concern.
- Also not my biggest concern, but it looks like I still have gamma droop in the SDR config ever after autocal. I thought it would take care of that.
- I have no idea why the color temps vary so widely between measurement runs. I know not to expect perfection at the lower levels since I'm using the i1Pro, but I think there should be some consistency above 25% or so.
- I can confirm that whenever I'm in HDR mode, the Lv's measured for all stimulus above 50% gray are basically the same. They measure the same and when I look at the pattern, it doesn't change for different levels. The gamma graph is accurate based on what I'm seeing.

I'm not sure what to do from here. I could factory reset, reflash the original config from Autocal and try again. Besides that, I'm at a loss.

One thing that isn't clear - what gamma graph should I be looking for on HDR? Should it be a straight 2.2 line? And should I measure in Normal mode instead of bt.2084?
- Dave
The gamma curves definitely do not look right. Are the Picture Mode, Color Temp, Gamma, Contrast etc all in their default settings?

Are these results from actual calibration runs, or from Log-Only runs? If the later, I would say the previously saved calibration is faulty.

The SDR gamma plot shows the opposite of gamma droop; i.e., the logged gamma is higher than 2.2.

The ST.2084 gamma should show an S-curve which is harder too evaluate than an straight line, that's why the usual recommendation is to use Normal gamma for calibration/log, even for HDR. However, I'm quite sure these curves do not look right. HDR should not clip at 50%.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-09-2020 at 05:57 PM.
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post #5106 of 5112 Old 03-09-2020, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The gamma curves definitely do not look right. Are the Picture Mode, Color Temp, Gamma, Contrast etc all in their default settings?

Are these results from actual calibration runs, or from Log-Only runs? If the later, I would say the previously saved calibration is faulty.

The SDR gamma plot shows the opposite of gamma droop; i.e., the logged gamma is higher than 2.2.

The ST.2084 gamma should show an S-curve which is harder too evaluate than an straight line, that's why the usual recommendation is to use Normal gamma for calibration/log, even for HDR. However, I'm quite sure these curves do not look right. HDR should not clip at 50%.
Those results are from log-only runs (per your recommendation above trying with different input source configurations) but they are all post-calibration.

I'm not sure what "default" settings are since these are new profiles that I set up, but here's how they're currently configured.

SDR Profile:
clear black: low
lamp power: low
Lens aperture: -7

Color profile: rec-709F (from Manni)
CMS: off

Color Temp: Custom 1
Correction Value: 6500k
All gains & offsets: 0

Gamma: Custom 1
Correction value: 2.2
Color: white
picture tone: 0
dark level: 2
bright level: 0

low latency: off
CMD: off
motion enhance: off

contrast: -4
brightness: 0
color: 0
tint: 0


HDR Profile:
clear black: low
lamp power: high
Lens aperture: 0

Color profile: bt.2020
CMS: off

Color Temp: Custom 2
Correction Value: 6500k
All gains & offsets: 0

Gamma: st.2084
Correction value: N/A
Color: white
picture tone: 0
dark level: 0
bright level: 0

low latency: off
CMD: off
motion enhance: off

contrast: 0
brightness: 0
color: 0
tint: 0

They're not textbook default settings, but pretty close to it.

Let me know if anything looks incorrect.
- Dave
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post #5107 of 5112 Old 03-09-2020, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dth122 View Post
Those results are from log-only runs (per your recommendation above trying with different input source configurations) but they are all post-calibration.

I'm not sure what "default" settings are since these are new profiles that I set up, but here's how they're currently configured.

SDR Profile:
clear black: low
lamp power: low
Lens aperture: -7
Most of these settings do not affect gamma, other than “Dark Level: 2”.

If you compare your previous SDR gamma in post 5095 with the latest in post 5104 you can see a clear difference. Assuming the input (4K vs 1080p) is the only difference, there’s a good chance that your previous calibration was corrupted by the input.

I would rerun SDR gamma Autocal with 1080p input and see if you get a straight line, and if so rerun the HDR gamma as well.

If you compare the second column with the third column in post 5104, that too shows that the input has a major impact on the log.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-09-2020 at 09:59 PM.
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post #5108 of 5112 Old 03-19-2020, 08:27 AM
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I have a question about HDR mode on my 520. Sometimes things look garish when I'm on HDR and I switch it over to SDR and it looks fine. Other times when I switch from HDR to SDR, it looks the same. I know that it switches automatically on newer models, but how do I tell what's real HDR and which mode I should be in?
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post #5109 of 5112 Old 03-19-2020, 08:56 AM
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I have a question about HDR mode on my 520. Sometimes things look garish when I'm on HDR and I switch it over to SDR and it looks fine. Other times when I switch from HDR to SDR, it looks the same. I know that it switches automatically on newer models, but how do I tell what's real HDR and which mode I should be in?
The 520 will switch between SDR and HDR automatically. To have it work properly you must first connect a known SDR source, and place the projector in the SDR mode of your choice. If you then play an HDR movie the projector will switch to HDR, and vice versa.

Note that on loss of HDR signal the projector simply switches back to the mode it was previously in, so if you manually select the HDR mode when the source is SDR, that will disable the auto switching logic in subsequent operations.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-19-2020 at 10:44 AM.
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post #5110 of 5112 Old 03-19-2020, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The 520 will switch between SDR and HDR automatically. To have it work properly you must first connect a known SDR source, and place the projector in the SDR mode of your choice. If you then play an HDR movie the projector will switch to HDR, and vice versa.

Note that on loss of HDR signal the projector simply switches back to the mode it was previously in, so if you manually select the HDR mode when the source is SDR, that will disable the auto switching logic in subsequent operations.
Gotcha, thanks for the quick response. I'll try it tonight. This is my first high end projector out of 5 and we love it!
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post #5111 of 5112 Old 03-25-2020, 09:13 AM
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Is the RS520U the same as the X770R?
Correct
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Also what are the changes made/differences/advantages between this (X770R) and the RS400U?
Two totally different machines. RS400U/X550R are the same units. RS400U/X550R are a cheaper and a step down form the RS520U/X770R and a year older too. ---Yes I almost confused myself answering this, lol.
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post #5112 of 5112 Old 03-28-2020, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Most of these settings do not affect gamma, other than “Dark Level: 2”.

If you compare your previous SDR gamma in post 5095 with the latest in post 5104 you can see a clear difference. Assuming the input (4K vs 1080p) is the only difference, there’s a good chance that your previous calibration was corrupted by the input.

I would rerun SDR gamma Autocal with 1080p input and see if you get a straight line, and if so rerun the HDR gamma as well.

If you compare the second column with the third column in post 5104, that too shows that the input has a major impact on the log.
I finally had a chance to re-run things and I have to say that it seems we're in better shape. I think the moral of the story is to make sure your input signal matches the mode you're trying to calibrate and don't use the S&M disc as an input. Somewhere in there is where the problem lies. I'm not sure exactly the issue and now that it's working as expected it's not worth troubleshooting further as far as I'm concerned.

Let me know what you think about these new results.



My only issue is that I still can't get that green dialed in on SDR mode even though the projector is clearly able to reproduce it. Any thoughts on that? It baffles me that it can't pull it in.
- Dave
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