Sony VPL-VW885ES / VPL-VW760ES laser projector announced - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I think it is a matter of personal preference. 30 - 40 FL of brightness in a Home Theater setting is more than enough for a very nice image.

UHD HDR10 is meant for panel displays which are in the neighborhood of 1000 nits. So it would take 5000 lumens on a normal sized higher gain screen to even get close to that type of standard.

I think most will tell you that HDR isn't really ready for projectors just yet. But having said that you can get a very nice image which is better than SDR with a 2000 and above lumen projector.

Just ask the JVC 520 and 620 owners. I bet they are still happy with their UHD HDR units even though they don't meet the standard either.

Of course it is always better to have more light if you can get it but the question is; is it 4 times the cost of a 760 to go to the 5000, or 2 times the cost to go up to RS4500. Most would probably be happy with the 760 as a good compromise.
Ironic, I was about to go on to ask if you'd actually viewed either the VW5000 or Z1 to note that as people like myself and Craig P, Mike G, and Kris D have observed, a very pleasing HDR result is possible without a blaring a bright laser level being used. However, I didn't want so sound like I was singling you out too much on this so I deleted it.. BTW I'm last guy you need to 'ask the JVC 520 and 620 owners' given I'm currently a Z1 and X7000 (technically also a X9000) owner. I view HDR on both units fairly regularly, with the only caveat being the 7000 would really need to have the HDlinker set up on it to bring up to the current lamp based gen capabilities with iris. Again, the vast majority of us died in the wool projector guys here are well aware we're some ways off seeing a projector achieve 'reference HDR'.

Also, yes very elementary facts there Greg, most of us are all aware of the massive price hike to get to the VW5000 from theoretically what the VW760's price point will be. However, I might add my own experiences and street pricing tells me the you're overstating things a bit to be saying with certainty right now (especially if say the 760 ends up $US25K) to assert its '2 times' the cost to buy a Z1/RS4500.
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post #1052 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
However, I might add my own experiences and street pricing tells me the your overstating things a bit to say for sure right now (if say the 760 ends up $US25K) to assert its '2 times' the cost to buy a Z1/RS4500.
I was just going by current European pricing as that is all that is currently available.

VW760ES - 15K Euros
VW5000 - 60K Euros
JVCZ1 - 40K Euros

Until we get US pricing that is all we have to go by.

I am not sure where you were going with the first part of your post as it sounded like you agreed that it didn't take a blaring 5000 lumens to get a pleasing HDR effect. I said the same myself. It is a personal preference thing. You seem to just be nit picking.
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post #1053 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I was just going by current European pricing as that is all that is currently available.

VW760ES - 15K Euros
VW5000 - 60K Euros
JVCZ1 - 40K Euros

Until we get US pricing that is all we have to go by.

I am not sure where you were going with the first part of your post as it sounded like you agreed that it didn't take a blaring 5000 lumens to get a pleasing HDR effect. I said the same myself. It is a personal preference thing. You seem to just be nit picking.
What's the price of the 550ES in Europe? Here in the US it's equivalent model, the 675ES, is $15000. Considering we know that Sony is keeping that model in the lineup for 2018, we can be very confident the 760ES will be priced quite a bit higher here in the US unless they announce price reductions for the bulb units at CEDIA. If the price of the 760ES comes in at the rumored price that the 1100ES sold at ($28000) then things need to be compared/examined quite a bit differently. The price difference then becomes quite a bit more negligible and I would think paying a little more for the RS4500 makes a lot more sense considering the extra brightness and much nicer lens that the RS4500 has. But, if the price difference really is roughly two times as much then I can see this argument changing quite a bit. So it really seems where you're located makes a huge difference in the value proposition all of these laser models have and I think we need to base our conversations around these price differences relative to which market the person arguing buys from.
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post #1054 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What's the price of the 550ES in Europe? Here in the US it's equivalent model, the 675ES, is $15000. Considering we know that Sony is keeping that model in the lineup for 2018, we can be very confident the 760ES will be priced quite a bit higher here in the US unless they announce price reductions for the bulb units at CEDIA. If the rumored price of the 760ES coming in at the same price as the 1100ES ($28000) turns out to be true then things need to be compared/examined quite a bit differently. The price difference then becomes quite a bit more negligible and I would think paying a little more for the RS4500 makes a lot more sense considering the extra brightness and much nicer lens that the RS4500 has. But, if the price difference really is roughly two times as much then I can see this argument changing quite a bit. So it really seems where you're located makes a huge difference in the value proposition all of these laser models have and I think we need to base our conversations around these price differences relative to which market the person arguing buys from.
I agree completely.

Sony's US pricing is completely random when comparing to European pricing. Some projectors are cheaper, some higher. I think they must use a magic 8 ball to set pricing.

But for the discussion we were having I was just using European pricing because US pricing is still unknown. If the Sony 760 comes in near $15K I would call that a home run for Sony. If it comes in closer to $25 - $30K then I think JVCs RS4500 would be the better overall choice.

We might find out tomorrow as Sony's CEDIA event is tomorrow late afternoon.
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post #1055 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:29 PM
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Here goes.

I saw the new Sony multiple times at IFA, and here are my impressions. I'm coming from the JVC X9500/RS 620

Sony had 3 new projectors they were showing.
A short throw, priced at 20K which was projecting on a 100" special Gray screen which apperantly does wonders for ambient light. This is of no interest to me, so I didnt bother with it , but it did look very impressive.
The 260 which is priced at 5, 000 Euro and the 760 at 15,000 Euro.

They were showing 2 trailers over and over agian, Passengers and the new Balde Runner 2049.
Those were actually a good choice for me, as they both required high contrast to fully enjoy them.

The Sony room was quite small, relied on a heavy Black curtain to keep things dark and obviously people played with it quite a bit and I needed to raise my voice to get good darkness.
They were showing the above clips on the 260 and the 760 so you get a feel on the differences.

The 260 is a naked 360 i.e no dynamic Iris, no lens memory, no lens memory, lower native contrast, no auto calibration.
After watching it for a few minutes I started to lose interest as the contrast was wayyy to low for me to call this a decent picture. Otherwise I thought that the colors looked washed out and sharpness was not that good, though those of course can be just adjustments and calibration. Based on what I saw, this has no real advantage over a JVC X5500/420.

Before we start to discuss the 750 I should mention that after the first public demo I saw of the 260 and 760, I started asking quite a few questions, at that point the European product menager approached me and asked if we (came with a friend who owns the 420) would like a PRIVATE DEMO, to which we replied YES.

We were taken to a different room which was quite a walk from there.
In that room we met 2 Japanese enginers who were thrilled to learn that we are in fact enthusiasts and not dealers and the nearly cried out of joy after I told them that I owned the 95ES, The Ruby, The 10HT and the remarkable 400Q.

They let us pick out meterial from the stuff they had, which was stuff I was not femiliar with, other then Oblivion.

At that time you guys are probably smiling waiting for those critical viewing notes, but sadly that was not the case, as in fact this was much worse then the OK room Sony had for the public. There was light coming out from an opening between the wall the screen was mounted on to the ceiling, this light caused a lot of damage to the overall picture, so while looking at the picture I started to ask some questions. Please forgive me for not asking the questions which are currently bugging Sony owners as I have not followed those threads being a current JVC owner.

Lens.
I was told that the 260/360/760 all share the same lens which is apperantly better than the one on the 550.
Contrast
I asked about NATIVE contrast but was told that Sony never discloses such information , but after insisting, i was told that I can expect 25-30% better contrast than the 550.
Dolby Vison.
Sony is currentl talking with Dolby about implementing this, and I was told that they will not commit to this, but it can be done on the 760 with a software upgrade.
Implementation of HDMI 2.1
This has no current planes and the engineers said that this will not be necessary for future implemantaion and come to play only with 8K.

My impressions from the 760 based mainly on the public room.

I would start by saying that I was BLOWN AWAY by the 760, the Picture had good contrast, not nearly as good as I'm seeing and I bet it's on par with the entry level JVC's which is not a bad thing and enough for that Contrast thresh hold. Brifghtness was very very good, playing on a 133" wide screen and 120" wide in the public room. Sharpness was something to behold, motion always fele natural and flowing and colors looked natural and spot on. The picture had a lot of depth and very good pop.

What caught my eye imediately is the "feel" of the picture, i saw this for the FIRST time when I had a chance to check out the JVC Z1 at the JVC booth, this special, refined , expensive analogue look. The Sony has that as well.
Though they played different material in different rooms and it's very hard to compare, I would say the Sony has the edge when it comes to Contrast And Sharpness, both share the same analogue feel.

Was it all perfect? saddly NO.
2 things realy bothered me with the Sony.

1. Being such a fan of Fade To Black and constantly running after the projector that does it well, I was so impressed with the ability of the JVC laser to shut down completely during those fade to blacks . This was NOT the case with the Sony, you could still see some light on the screen. I asked about that, and they told me that it's a software issue and the projector is just a prototype.

2. Banding. We have some banding on the JVC units caused by the CMD mechanism but they are not that bad and not that often. On the Sony I couldn't see any banding watching Oblivion or passengers BUT I saw 3-4 SERIOUS Banding issues during the Balde Runner clip. Every time they played the clip I saw Banding' and it was very major. Sadly I had no one to ask about this at the time.
Hopefully they get this fixed.

hope u got some interesting info out of this.

Ran
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post #1056 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
I was just going by current European pricing as that is all that is currently available.

VW760ES - 15K Euros
VW5000 - 60K Euros
JVCZ1 - 40K Euros

Until we get US pricing that is all we have to go by.

I am not sure where you were going with the first part of your post as it sounded like you agreed that it didn't take a blaring 5000 lumens to get a pleasing HDR effect. I said the same myself. It is a personal preference thing. You seem to just be nit picking.
I said that because it seemed like you were trying to school me on the very point I was originally going to make about not need massive lumens for a good HDR result. I wasn't in the least bit nitpicking, you were the one with the blanket statement I originally quoted regarding '5000 lumens not being enough for even flat panels'.

VW760 15K Euros sounds a fraction low to me if we're using Sony's usual quite accurate globalised pricing and the unit is going to priced in line with what the 1100ES (from why my Sony projector div contact told me Monday)
The VW5000 @60K sounds like full list as well
The Z1 price also seems way too high. I could walk out here when they came out and pay $A38K(25.4 Euro) to retailer I have no connection with (my price was 24K Euro).
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post #1057 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:37 PM
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Sony VPL-VW760ES laser projector announced at IFA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Here goes.

Lens.
I was told that the 260/360/760 all share the same lens which is apperantly better than the one on the 550.

Ran


Thank you very much.

Just one question on the lens. You wrote "apparently better" than the one on the 550. Is that your perception? Or was is stated by Sony engineers?
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post #1058 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
Spoiler!

Thanks for also sharing your 760 info with us Ran! What stands out to me from your feedback that is slightly perplexing is you mention the 760 sharing the same plastic lens as the other units however you recollection of sharpness was superior on the 760 compared to the Z1's glass lens. The banding issues also sound like a major final release software fix that hopefully they get sorted soon. The fade to black issue is also a shame and one that maybe also software will address, just as it has with the JVC.
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post #1059 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:46 PM
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VW760 15K Euros sounds a fraction low to me if we're using Sony's usual quite accurate globalised pricing and the unit is going to priced in line with what the 1100ES (from why my Sony projector div contact told me Monday)
The VW5000 @60K sounds like full list as well
The Z1 price also seems way too high. I could walk out here when they came out and pay $A38K(25.4 Euro) to retailer I have no connection with (my price was 24K Euro).

If you go online to the European websites you will see that these are the MSRP asked in Euros. That is all I was using. The VW760 is 15K Euros. The VW5000 is 60K Euros. The JVC4500/Z1 is listed at 40K Euros.

Street prices may well be different. I don't know because I live in the US. Since we have no US pricing yet. I was just using the MSRP on the European websites.

I really am not trying to say anything negative about any of these projectors or the pricing.

The main crux of the argument was that 2000 lumens is plenty to deliver a good Home Theater experience for me. I think it is personal preference.

You were stating that 200 lumens was not adequate in your eyes. Fine, you like a brighter projector. You stated that the brightness was necessary for good HDR.

I stated that you can always argue for more brightness when it comes to HDR because the standard was built for flat panel TVs and that there are plenty who get a pleasing HDR picture that is still superior to SDR and yet isn't up to the standard.

I think you agree with what I was saying. So why all this back and forth about pricing? The pricing hasn't even been established in my country yet.
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post #1060 of 2575 Old 09-05-2017, 11:53 PM
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Thank you Ran for the information.

It is always good to get first hand reports even if the conditions for viewing aren't optimal.

Good job trying to get the facts.
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post #1061 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 12:05 AM
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If you go online to the European websites you will see that these are the MSRP asked in Euros. That is all I was using. The VW760 is 15K Euros. The VW5000 is 60K Euros. The JVC4500/Z1 is listed at 40K Euros.

Street prices may well be different. I don't know because I live in the US. Since we have no US pricing yet. I was just using the MSRP on the European websites.

I really am not trying to say anything negative about any of these projectors or the pricing.

The main crux of the argument was that 2000 lumens is plenty to deliver a good Home Theater experience for me. I think it is personal preference.

You were stating that 200 lumens was not adequate in your eyes. Fine, you like a brighter projector. You stated that the brightness was necessary for good HDR.

I stated that you can always argue for more brightness when it comes to HDR because the standard was built for flat panel TVs and that there are plenty who get a pleasing HDR picture that is still superior to SDR and yet isn't up to the standard.

I think you agree with what I was saying. So why all this back and forth about pricing? The pricing hasn't even been established in my country yet.

That's the whole issue with quoting suggested retail Greg. As most of us have said on the forums for years, especially the US based members, no one pays MSRP or they're nuts. We try to talk street prices so we don't get wrapped up in false economic arguments given how much variation there can be between MSRP and real world retail. Also, I'm not sure why you're really getting involved in Euro pricing discussions as a person based in the US (I was starting to thing you were CH as in Swiss)? I mean I hear what you're trying to say re extrapolating prices, but short actually speaking to people in the trade, I can't see a huge point in trying to so as I've seen its so often doesn't translate in reality.

Fair enough, there's seemingly a lot to like potentially in all of them when look them and variety is the spice of consumer life!

I was stating 760 (please again stop misquoting) at the quoted 1600 calibrated lumens would struggle in my own HT next to my what I have right now and probably disappoint others with 150"+ scope setups too. If it were 2000 calibrated lumens that's a different ball game of course...

Exactly re pricing, the only word I have had from Sony themselves here in my country is to expect pricing close to what the 1100ES, but to stand by till after CEDIA for formal pricing. So there's only a limited amount you can do based on that. Speculate that it could be quite and expensive unit comparatively for what it is or in the end it could still end up being something less than $20K. All I can say in many years of new product launches with Sony, I have rarely been let down with what I've been told prior to launch. We're so close to CEDIA now anyway so the speculation will be wiped out before we know it..
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@Ran

Great job, thanks for the feedback

FYI, HDMI 2.1 is needed amongst other things for HDR10+ (dynamic metadata) support (this is why for now it's only supported internally) and higher frame rates, which matters for games and for 10/12bits 4:4:4 at 60p. Some of these features need a higher than 18Gb/s bandwidth, but they don't need the full 48Gb/s bandwidth of HDMI 2.1, so many existing cables should work. HDMI 2.1 is not only relevant for 8K, but then Sony has never been up to date with HDMI implementations so of course they would say that if they don't have any upgrade path.
Also AFAIK DV needs specific hardware both in the source and the display (unless they have a very powerful FPGA such as in the Radiance Pro). If the DV proprietary hardware isn't in the projector, it can't be upgraded with a f/w update. I would take this statement with a huge pinch of salt until the presence of such capable hardware is confirmed.
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post #1063 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 12:14 AM
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For all those guys asking about the lens.

I was told at the private demo that all 3 models (260/360/760) share the exact same lens.

I'm pretty sure they mentioned it was better than the one found on the 550, but I'm not that sure now, because I didn't take notes.

As to comparing sharpness between the 760 and the Z1.

As mentioned this is very difficult to do, once they are not side by side, but I did attend both demos multiple times, and always felt the Sony was sharper and still maintaining a natural look as opposed to "digitaly sharper"

Ran
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post #1064 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
All I can say in many years of new product launches with Sony, I have rarely been let down with what I've been told prior to launch. We're so close to CEDIA now anyway so the speculation will be wiped out before we know it..
You seem to be a good person and I think we are saying the exact same thing.

It is very late here and I have no argument with you. Thank you for your opinions, I am sorry if I misquoted you as I think our different english phrasing is contributing to a slight confusion.
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post #1065 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 12:20 AM
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@Ran

Great job, thanks for the feedback

FYI, HDMI 2.1 is needed amongst other things for HDR10+ (dynamic metadata) support (this is why for now it's only supported internally) and higher frame rates, which matters for games and for 10/12bits 4:4:4 at 60p. Some of these features need a higher than 18Gb/s bandwidth, but they don't need the full 48Gb/s bandwidth of HDMI 2.1, so many existing cables should work. HDMI 2.1 is not only relevant for 8K, but then Sony has never been up to date with HDMI implementations so of course they would say that if they don't have any upgrade path.
Also AFAIK DV needs specific hardware both in the source and the display (unless they have a very powerful FPGA such as in the Radiance Pro). If the DV proprietary hardware isn't in the projector, it can't be upgraded with a f/w update. I would take this statement with a huge pinch of salt until the presence of such capable hardware is confirmed.
Manni,

Do you happen to know how the auto-calibration works on these new projectors? Supposedly they don't need an external meter. Is it because they have a meter built in and would that have relevance for future DolbyVision implementation?
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post #1066 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
For all those guys asking about the lens.

I was told at the private demo that all 3 models (260/360/760) share the exact same lens.

I'm pretty sure they mentioned it was better than the one found on the 550, but I'm not that sure now, because I didn't take notes.

As to comparing sharpness between the 760 and the Z1.

As mentioned this is very difficult to do, once they are not side by side, but I did attend both demos multiple times, and always felt the Sony was sharper and still maintaining a natural look as opposed to "digitaly sharper"

Ran
Which is what it looks like and I do hope they made improvements over the previous gen. Things is I personally have heard these so many times with new Sony 4K models that they appear extremely sharp but when setup in my home and could fully evaluate it was a different story.

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post #1067 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 12:29 AM
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Manni,

Do you happen to know how the auto-calibration works on these new projectors? Supposedly they don't need an external meter. Is it because they have a meter built in and would that have relevance for future DolbyVision implementation?
I read "no" for autocalibration in the specs for the 760, so I was quite surprised. Hopefully, they have kept the internal meter that was present in the earlier models in the 5xx/6xx range (I tested the VW500ES at the time and it had one). An internal meter is the only way to implement DV in a projector, unless they only allow it to be enabled by vetted pro calibrators (with restricted software similar to THX/ISF certification). I highly doubt that Dolby would let the user set up an external meter to measure peakY. You only have to see what happens with the JVC Autocal (which works great when properly used) to see that it's not an option they would consider.

EDIT: must have been on a preliminary doc, here is what the current spec sheet states:

"Auto Calibration
After extended operating periods, colour can be automatically calibrated to the original factory conditions.There’s no need for extra calibration equipment or cameras; a built-in colour sensor stores all the necessary information."

Last edited by Manni01; 09-06-2017 at 12:35 AM.
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post #1068 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 03:15 AM
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Thanks Ran. I'm looking forward to seeing the 760 myself and coming from a DLP I am looking forward to seeing that "POP" in image. Hopefully it comes out at under $20k here in Australia (ie. $19.990) if they are all sharing the same lens and not that of the 1100ES and as such the price point should be set accordingly.

JAVS or OZHDHT if you guys here of an Aussie demo somewhere in Australia before its December release please let me know where and I'll fly to be there.
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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
What caught my eye imediately is the "feel" of the picture, i saw this for the FIRST time when I had a chance to check out the JVC Z1 at the JVC booth, this special, refined , expensive analogue look. The Sony has that as well.
Though they played different material in different rooms and it's very hard to compare, I would say the Sony has the edge when it comes to Contrast And Sharpness, both share the same analogue feel.

No offense, but I find myself unable to concur with "The Sony has that as well".


The impression I had in the public Sony showroom (when I was there on Monday, perhaps we witnessed different settings, one German poster claimed Reality Creation was set very high) was that of an image with an unpleasant digital look, I usually encounter with flat screens in electronic markets: Exaggerated and fake looking colors, harsh contrast (half tones almost gone) and signs of Black Crush.


(My personal Sony reference used to be a VPH-D50 CRT projector)


I wouldn't exclude the possibility that we were looking at the same kind of projector but with different settings, but on the other hand the Sony representatives themselves said we aren't looking at the finished product, yet.

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post #1070 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran View Post
2. Banding. We have some banding on the JVC units caused by the CMD mechanism but they are not that bad and not that often. On the Sony I couldn't see any banding watching Oblivion or passengers BUT I saw 3-4 SERIOUS Banding issues during the Balde Runner clip. Every time they played the clip I saw Banding' and it was very major. Sadly I had no one to ask about this at the time.
Hopefully they get this fixed.
Could the banding have been in the source or was it a high-bitrate, high-quality media? Hopefully not some trailer they downloaded from the internet.

Regarding potential DV upgrades, I would not dismiss it outright as a possibility. They are officially upgrading a bunch of their high-end HDR10 flatpanels to DV via firmware update this year. If DV (as mastered by streaming video providers and UHD discs) is flexible enough to work on a super dim display like a projector, then I think they could do it.

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post #1071 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
........
EDIT: must have been on a preliminary doc, here is what the current spec sheet states:

"Auto Calibration
After extended operating periods, colour can be automatically calibrated to the original factory conditions.There’s no need for extra calibration equipment or cameras; a built-in colour sensor stores all the necessary information."



Does this ' Auto Calibration' eliminate need for a professional calibration? , or how much more does a professional calibration improve upon the auto calibration?
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post #1072 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 03:57 AM
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Does this ' Auto Calibration' eliminate need for a professional calibration? , or how much more does a professional calibration improve upon the auto calibration?
I don't have much experience with the Sony autocal, but when I tested it briefly in an older model (500ES) it seemed to be quite good at bringing the PJ back to a decent baseline. It should help with things like gamma droop etc, color temp but it doesn't replace a professional autocal especially for gamma. Even after an autocal, the PJ isn't at reference and there is some unit to unit variation. An internal sensor is probably a requirement for DV support. For any PJ, a 3D LUT and better meters than the internal/supported meters are required to bring the projector to reference, but the autocal takes you 80% there. At the time it wasn't as efficient or sophisticated as the JVC Autocal, but I haven't tested the Sony Autocal on newer models (and I only tested it with SDR, not with HDR) so I'll let others with more recent first-hand experience comment.
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post #1073 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
I don't have much experience with the Sony autocal, but when I tested it briefly in an older model (500ES) it seemed to be quite good at bringing the PJ back to a decent baseline. It should help with things like gamma droop etc, color temp but it doesn't replace a professional autocal especially for gamma. Even after an autocal, the PJ isn't at reference and there is some unit to unit variation. An internal sensor is probably a requirement for DV support. For any PJ, a 3D LUT and better meters than the internal/supported meters are required to bring the projector to reference, but the autocal takes you 80% there. At the time it wasn't as efficient or sophisticated as the JVC Autocal, but I haven't tested the Sony Autocal on newer models (and I only tested it with SDR, not with HDR) so I'll let others with more recent first-hand experience comment.

Thanks Manni, that at least gives me some breathing room with getting the projector and arranging for a professional calibrator when he makes his rounds to my area. For me, after spending this much money for either the new sony or the rs4500 getting the best out of these high end models only makes sense.
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post #1074 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 04:15 AM
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In this video at the 4:00 mark, there is a new HDR menu with different options, have anyone had the chance to ask Sony yet about this and how they work, more specifically the difference between HDR10 and HDR Reference?
Or if anyone can translate what the guy in the video says about this?


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post #1075 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
In this video at the 4:00 mark, there is a new HDR menu with different options, have anyone had the chance to ask Sony yet about this and how they work, more specifically the difference between HDR10 and HDR Reference?
Or if anyone can translate what the guy in the video says about this?
It might be worth asking about it in the 5000ES owners thread - I would be surprised if the HDR menu options weren't the same.
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post #1076 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 04:56 AM
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i've read 3 different accounts so far regarding the lens


* 760 Improved lens over current 3xx and 6xx but wasn't specifically the 4K ARC-F lens of the previous VW1100.

* 260/360/760 all get the same lens (according to what the Sony Engineer's told Ran in post 1055)

* 760 does get the 4K ARC-F lens (conversation with dealers in AU)


can folks attending cedia please find out with 100% certainty what lens is in the 760?
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post #1077 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 05:50 AM
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Also do we know if this PJ has a manual iris, or just adjustment of the laser for setting peak ouput?

I don't believe the 5000ES has a manual iris (which I always thought was a strange omission given its ability to increase on/off contrast), so it will be interesting to know if the 760 includes one.
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post #1078 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
In this video at the 4:00 mark, there is a new HDR menu with different options, have anyone had the chance to ask Sony yet about this and how they work, more specifically the difference between HDR10 and HDR Reference?
Or if anyone can translate what the guy in the video says about this?
Quoting and translating the speaker:

"HDR Reference is for UHD BluRays which were mastered to 1000 Nits.

It's for better colour presentation in brighter image sections including appropriate Gamma adjustment."
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post #1079 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro13 View Post
Quoting and translating the speaker:

"HDR Reference is for UHD BluRays which were mastered to 1000 Nits.

It's for better colour presentation in brighter image sections including appropriate Gamma adjustment."
Interesting and thx for the translation. I am sure we will learn more about this soon when reviews and tests starts to arrive.

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post #1080 of 2575 Old 09-06-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
What's the price of the 550ES in Europe? Here in the US it's equivalent model, the 675ES, is $15000. Considering we know that Sony is keeping that model in the lineup for 2018, we can be very confident the 760ES will be priced quite a bit higher here in the US unless they announce price reductions for the bulb units at CEDIA. If the price of the 760ES comes in at the rumored price that the 1100ES sold at ($28000) then things need to be compared/examined quite a bit differently. The price difference then becomes quite a bit more negligible and I would think paying a little more for the RS4500 makes a lot more sense considering the extra brightness and much nicer lens that the RS4500 has. But, if the price difference really is roughly two times as much then I can see this argument changing quite a bit. So it really seems where you're located makes a huge difference in the value proposition all of these laser models have and I think we need to base our conversations around these price differences relative to which market the person arguing buys from.
JVC now lets us sell the R4500 for less than the MSRP, so if the VW760 is $28K SURE priced, the difference is less than I spend on throwing myself a birthday dinner party.
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