Optoma UHZ65 - 4K laser ($4,500 MSRP) - Page 21 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 966Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #601 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 10:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,543
Mentioned: 289 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14006 Post(s)
Liked: 11680
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
They're smaller than my Runco LS-5.

Speaking of which, contrast numbers on the LS-5 measured in a spread from 3,000:1 to a bit under 4,000:1 native and around 15,000:1 to sometimes over 16,000:1 dynamic. I have a reference point on contrast/blacks in my JVC X750 which measures over 85,000:1 native and around 365:000:1 dynamic. Watching on the Runco, I have to say that I never felt that something was missing from the image due to the need for more contrast or deeper blacks in dark scenes. In part, this was due, I think, to strength in other areas: the sharpness of the image and how the processor and lens worked in tandem to render a clean (astonishingly noise-free for DLP), detailed image.

If Optoma can bring up contrast in the UHZ above 2,000:1 AND make a strong presentation in the processor and lens area, maybe we will be in for a pleasant surprise.
I feel like that will happen about the same time that pigs learn to fly.
Mike Garrett is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #602 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 10:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,792
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3072 Post(s)
Liked: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I feel like that will happen about the same time that pigs learn to fly.
Oh no, Mike. I wanedt to stay cautiously optimistic.
Aztar35 is offline  
post #603 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 10:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,792
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3072 Post(s)
Liked: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I've never touched mine when it's hot. Maybe I'll touch it when watching " Blue Is The Warmest Colour " - if anything gets my RS4500 hot, that should be it.
Oh, that's right; it's Friday.
Aztar35 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #604 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 11:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The UHD65 and UHZ65 are not large projectors. They're smaller than many of the single chip DLPs I've had here that used a regular old UHP lamp.
They are massive compared to a typical optoma 1080p lamp projector.

Here are a couple of Optoma's most popular 1080p lamp Home Cinema projectors

HD50
https://www.optomausa.com/projectorproduct/hd50
11.26" x 10.43" x 4.88"

HD142x
https://www.optomausa.com/projectorproduct/hd142x
11.7" x 9" x 3.8"

GT1080 Darbee
https://www.optomausa.com/projectorproduct/gt1080darbee
12.37" x 8.8" x 3.5"

Compared to...

UHD65
https://www.optomausa.com/projectorproduct/uhd65
19.6” x 13” x 6"

Note how the UHD65 dwarfs their 1080p lamp projectors in size - nearly double the width, about 50% greater in depth and 25-50% greater in height.

So yes, for Optoma the UHD60/UHD65 are much larger than their typical build for a lamp projector.

Last edited by Ruined; 07-14-2017 at 11:42 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #605 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 01:24 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 23,130
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4156 Post(s)
Liked: 2390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
They're smaller than my Runco LS-5.

Speaking of which, contrast numbers on the LS-5 measured in a spread from 3,000:1 to a bit under 4,000:1 native and around 15,000:1 to sometimes over 16,000:1 dynamic. I have a reference point on contrast/blacks in my JVC X750 which measures over 85,000:1 native and around 365:000:1 dynamic. Watching on the Runco, I have to say that I never felt that something was missing from the image due to the need for more contrast or deeper blacks in dark scenes.
Wish I could say the same thing, if so, I never would have bought a JVC. My Planar 8150 is pretty good, but there are lots of times when I felt the limited ("poor") contrast let the image down. Contrast, and black not being black is the only reason I got a JVC.

Heck, I'm not even happy with my RS600's contrast. For SDR with the aperture at -10 it's fine, but that put's the native CR around 100k:1, but in my HDR calibration, with the Aperture at 0, that drop's contrast down to probably 50-60k:1 and it's not uncommon for me to notice things that should be black but aren't. If I could keep 100k:1 native in an HDR calibration, I think I'd be happy.
stanger89 is offline  
post #606 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 01:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Wish I could say the same thing, if so, I never would have bought a JVC. My Planar 8150 is pretty good, but there are lots of times when I felt the limited ("poor") contrast let the image down. Contrast, and black not being black is the only reason I got a JVC.

Heck, I'm not even happy with my RS600's contrast. For SDR with the aperture at -10 it's fine, but that put's the native CR around 100k:1, but in my HDR calibration, with the Aperture at 0, that drop's contrast down to probably 50-60k:1 and it's not uncommon for me to notice things that should be black but aren't. If I could keep 100k:1 native in an HDR calibration, I think I'd be happy.
I am assuming you wouldn't like my w7000's native 650:1? 😁
mavang likes this.
Ruined is offline  
post #607 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 07:28 PM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
So yes, for Optoma the UHD60/UHD65 are much larger than their typical build for a lamp projector.

Lol, let's keep things in perspective here. This is a high end projector, or at least it's trying to sell in the high end market, so let's keep the comparison fair and compare them to some of the competition and not the toy projectors that you want to use as a comparison. All I'll tell you is that the UHD65 is not large by high end home theater projector standards. It looks considerably smaller than the JVCs, Epson laser, Epson 3LCD and Sony projectors that the UHZ65 will be competing against. By comparison it looks like a toy projector. It's also considerably smaller than many of the single chip DLP projectors that have sold in the $3000+ market over the last 10 years.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #608 of 2104 Old 07-14-2017, 11:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,792
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3072 Post(s)
Liked: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Wish I could say the same thing, if so, I never would have bought a JVC. My Planar 8150 is pretty good, but there are lots of times when I felt the limited ("poor") contrast let the image down. Contrast, and black not being black is the only reason I got a JVC.

Heck, I'm not even happy with my RS600's contrast. For SDR with the aperture at -10 it's fine, but that put's the native CR around 100k:1, but in my HDR calibration, with the Aperture at 0, that drop's contrast down to probably 50-60k:1 and it's not uncommon for me to notice things that should be black but aren't. If I could keep 100k:1 native in an HDR calibration, I think I'd be happy.
Wow. I assume your room is light controlled/reflection inhibited? Those DLPs are basically the same except for some software upgrades to the Runco's iris operation. The only complaint I have with mine is some CA that can't be seen from a few feet away.

Moving on to the JVCs, HDR is a little kooky with black levels on our projectors, even with the iris operable. If you are raising any of the dark /bright/tone level, that can cause problems like that. You should be able to hit 400,000:1 dynamic on the X950/RS 600.

What I was saying was that if the UHZ is refined in other areas like the processor and lens, then it can make up for the lack of class-leading contrast with an overall solid image --IF Optoma can get the blacks to a satisfactory threshold using the laser. I'm not going to compare the UHD lamp version with JVC blacks. No consumer projector can do blacks like these JVC RS5xx/6xx anyway.
Aztar35 is offline  
post #609 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 05:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,792
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3072 Post(s)
Liked: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I am assuming you wouldn't like my w7000's native 650:1? 😁
I had the W7000 and recall the image was tack sharp! It was also one of the best 3D projectors I've seen in action. I remember turning up clarity control to 3 and sharpness to 2 and had no visible ringing but producing an image that showed tremendous detail. It had excellent ANSI contrast too.

The blacks were tolerable in dark scenes --with the dynamic iris helping out, but dark scenes in 3D (no dynamic iris there) were muddy. Given its overall performance, I can see why you still have it. I hope the 1080p stuff viewed on the upcoming Optoma is as sharp; UHD should look better. And given the 1,400:1 native contrast figure pulled by our Seegs, you should be content with the contrast of the UHD65 coming from the Benq, and hopefully the UHZ65 will be even better.
Aztar35 is offline  
post #610 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 05:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I had the W7000 and recall the image was tack sharp! It was also one of the best 3D projectors I've seen in action. I remember turning up clarity control to 3 and sharpness to 2 and had no visible ringing but producing an image that showed tremendous detail. It had excellent ANSI contrast too.

The blacks were tolerable in dark scenes --with the dynamic iris helping out, but dark scenes in 3D (no dynamic iris there) were muddy. Given its overall performance, I can see why you still have it. I hope the 1080p stuff viewed on the upcoming Optoma is as sharp; UHD should look better. And given the 1,400:1 native contrast figure pulled by our Seegs, you should be content with the contrast of the UHD65 coming from the Benq, and hopefully the UHZ65 will be even better.
The 3D performance on the W7000 I've found fantastic with the Optoma ZD201 glasses with just enough brightness, contrast, and black level to offer near-theatrical level 3D performance. With other glasses like XpanD not so good, because even their DLP link ones don't color correct for DLP link properly. Haven't seen a projector better for 3D, honestly, though granted I never saw a Lumis 3D (too expensive) or Sharp 30000 (out of production & unsupported by manuf - refuse to buy pj I can't get lamps from manuf).

The UHZ65, I am hoping based on the specs, will triple the native contrast of the W7000 while presenting an even sharper image (I am a sharpness fan in case you couldn't tell ). Then I can use UHZ65 for 2D and W7000 exclusively for 3D, where the W7000 is best anyway.

I could hold out for a 4k DLP 3D laser projector, but who knows when that will happen and if it will be able to match the W7000's lumens in 3D?
Aztar35 likes this.

Last edited by Ruined; 07-15-2017 at 05:54 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #611 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 06:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,792
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3072 Post(s)
Liked: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
The UHZ65, I am hoping based on the specs, will triple the native contrast of the W7000 while presenting an even sharper image (I am a sharpness fan in case you couldn't tell ).
We can't be sure that the UHZ will actually display noticeably better contrast than the UHD version, and that's why I've also been "preaching" that hopefully the overall performance of the laser version will be better.

Let's take for example the JVCs... (from the literature and reports [sources omitted]) the RS4500 just can't produce the same level of contrast and blacks that the lamp-based RS5xx/RS6xx series can, but it produces an overall visibly better performance than those models; the native panels aside, its lens, processor, and brightness, to mention a few, go a long way there. And those should also be things to take into account here. If, however, the price doubling here is due merely to having a laser light source, then we know more of what to expect.

Last edited by Aztar35; 07-15-2017 at 06:53 AM.
Aztar35 is offline  
post #612 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 06:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
We can't be sure that the UHZ will actually display noticeably better contrast than the UHD version, and that's why I've also been "preaching" that hopefully the overall performance of the laser version will be better.

Let's take for example the JVCs... (from the literature and reports [sources omitted]) the RS4500 just can't produce the same level of contrast and blacks that the lamp-based RS5xx/RS6xx series can, but it produces an overall visibly better performance than those models; the native panels aside, its lens, processor, and brightness, to mention a few, go a long way there. And those should also be things to take into account here. If, however, the price doubling here is due merely to having a laser light source, then we know more of what to expect.
kraine just dropped a bomb in the X12000 thread that BenQ is adding 3D & HDR to the W11000/X12000 by end of year. Damn, now things are interesting, especially if they also add dynamic contrast to x12000.
Ruined is offline  
post #613 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Aztar35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,792
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3072 Post(s)
Liked: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
kraine just dropped a bomb in the X12000 thread that BenQ is adding 3D & HDR to the W11000/X12000 by end of year. Damn, now things are interesting, especially if they also add dynamic contrast to x12000.
..end of year? And I hope they do a good job with motion, price, and ......contrast. I mean I haven't watched a 3d movie in a long time. And if the image quality is on par with these Optoma units, how will Benq deal with pricing to be competitive?

Last edited by Aztar35; 07-15-2017 at 07:05 AM.
Aztar35 is offline  
post #614 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
BondDonBond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: US
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
kraine just dropped a bomb in the X12000 thread that BenQ is adding 3D & HDR to the W11000/X12000 by end of year. Damn, now things are interesting, especially if they also add dynamic contrast to x12000.
Going to be a lot of this going on. That is why I say wait or buy something you are willing to just play with like the UHD65 and not worry . Over the next year or more there is going to be a lot of great things coming out and changes....Patience...patience....patience.

Home Theater: JVC RS2000, Stewart 120" 2:35 StudioTech 130, Panamorph DCR Lens, B&W 802 Nautilus, HTM1, 4-B&W 805's for surround, 4-Martin Logan 22's ceiling speakers ATMOS, 2- PB-16 Ultra Subs, Marantz 8802A, MacIntosh 8207 AMP and Proceed AMP 5, Panasonic 820, Apple TV, XBox One, HTPC with MadVR, Qnap NAS
BondDonBond is offline  
post #615 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:11 AM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
kraine just dropped a bomb in the X12000 thread that BenQ is adding 3D & HDR to the W11000/X12000 by end of year. Damn, now things are interesting, especially if they also add dynamic contrast to x12000.
Contrast, even with the addition of dynamic contrast, will be anemic. The only possible way to add 3D would be to do it via DLP Link, which means that contrast will take a further hit in 3D mode. For it to be a "bombshell" they need to ditch this light engine or make some crazy enhancements.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #616 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:12 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by BondDonBond View Post
Going to be a lot of this going on. That is why I say wait or buy something you are willing to just play with like the UHD65 and not worry . Over the next year or more there is going to be a lot of great things coming out and changes....Patience...patience....patience.
I am upgrading my screen from a Da-Lite CinemaVision 1.3 to a Da-Lite HD Progressive 0.9, maybe I should just enjoy that for a while and patience it out
Ruined is offline  
post #617 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Contrast, even with the addition of dynamic contrast, will be anemic. The only possible way to add 3D would be to do it via DLP Link, which means that contrast will take a further hit in 3D mode. For it to be a "bombshell" they need to ditch this light engine or make some crazy enhancements.
DLP link 3D is fine, it is fantastic on my W7000 so long as you use color corrected 3D glasses (not all DLP link glasses are color corrected, like the XpanDs are not). I use the Optoma ZD201 and am thrilled with the output in 3D with the W7000 in high lamp mode, it looks virtually as good as commercial 3D theaters. Plus no crosstalk and/or 48hz flicker eyestrain/headaches as with LCD/LCOS.

I wonder if Optoma can also add 3D if BenQ can just do it with a FW update? Assuming this actually happens.

Last edited by Ruined; 07-15-2017 at 07:26 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #618 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:27 AM
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 10,827
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5167 Post(s)
Liked: 2595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
DLP link 3D is fine, it is fantastic on my W7000 so long as you use color corrected 3D glasses (not all DLP link glasses are color corrected, like the XpanDs are not). I use the Optoma ZD201 and am thrilled with the output in 3D.

I wonder if Optoma can also add 3D if BenQ can just do it with a FW update? Assuming this actually happens.
It's not "fine" when it comes to contrast. For example, this is how much it lowers the contrast on the BenQ W7000:





Photo credit goes to @zombie10k . DLP Link is cheap for manufacturers to implement, but all DLP Link implementations are detrimental to image quality simply by the nature of how it works. Maybe if these projectors had contrast to spare, but when you're already at sub 1000:1 you don't want to lower it even more to add in 3D.
Nick Laslett likes this.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #619 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 07:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It's not "fine" when it comes to contrast. For example, this is how much it lowers the contrast on the BenQ W7000:





Photo credit goes to @zombie10k . DLP Link is cheap for manufacturers to implement, but all DLP Link implementations are detrimental to image quality simply by the nature of how it works. Maybe if these projectors had contrast to spare, but when you're already at sub 1000:1 you don't want to lower it even more to add in 3D.
When you use Optoma ZD201 glasses it color corrects the DLP link flash and blacks look similar to 2D. The picture is grossly misrepresentative of the output to the eye when the correct 3D glasses hardware is used.

If I have time I'll post pictures later that will prove this point.

Last edited by Ruined; 07-15-2017 at 07:51 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #620 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 08:46 AM
Toe
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 16,877
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2832 Post(s)
Liked: 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
DLP link 3D is fine, it is fantastic on my W7000 so long as you use color corrected 3D glasses (not all DLP link glasses are color corrected, like the XpanDs are not). I use the Optoma ZD201 and am thrilled with the output in 3D with the W7000 in high lamp mode, it looks virtually as good as commercial 3D theaters. Plus no crosstalk and/or 48hz flicker eyestrain/headaches as with LCD/LCOS.

I wonder if Optoma can also add 3D if BenQ can just do it with a FW update? Assuming this actually happens.
As bad as the W7000s contrast is compared to the JVCs, I much prefer my Benq W7000 for 3d over the RS520 I had here for the majority of 3d films. Why? Flicker just kills JVCs 3d and while ghosting has made a dramatic improvement from the first 3d models, it's certainly not DLP ghost free level. There is a LOT to be said about a truly ghost free and flicker free 3d image which the JVC is far from mainly due to flicker which I never adjusted to in the three months I had the 520. Of course it didn't help that I came off 4 years of rock solid DLP 3d with the 7000 before going to the 520 which made going back to even some ghosting noticeable and flicker was like a blatant slap in the face!

So For me gping to a JVC for 3d was one step forward (contrast) and two steps back (flicker and ghosting) and the flicker step back was BIG. I'll be getting another JVC at some point most likely, but only the darkest 3d films will get watched on it where flicker doesn't hit as often and all my bright 3d will go to the 7000.

Of course this is all a bit moot since these new DLPs don't even support 3d?! WTF???
Toe is online now  
post #621 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 09:21 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,232
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked: 6261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
When you use Optoma ZD201 glasses it color corrects the DLP link flash and blacks look similar to 2D

there is still no comparing the W7000 DLP Link with the ZD201's to the 30K + IR, it's just a better overall 3D projector that has noticeably better native to start with. Lamps are still available.

yes, no longer available,supported, etc. still glad to own 2 now, this will keep great 3D in my HT for years to come until the UHD DLP manufacturers put this feature back in at a reasonable price. Still in a bit of shock they all bailed on this from the onset.
Toe likes this.
zombie10k is online now  
post #622 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 10:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 23,130
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4156 Post(s)
Liked: 2390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Wow. I assume your room is light controlled/reflection inhibited?
I do, it's not fully velvet like zombie's but it's still pretty good.

Quote:
Moving on to the JVCs, HDR is a little kooky with black levels on our projectors, even with the iris operable. If you are raising any of the dark /bright/tone level, that can cause problems like that. You should be able to hit 400,000:1 dynamic on the X950/RS 600.
I'm using a custom gamma generated by arve's tool, with the black point set correctly for 0.005 nits. So it's "right". It's also not terrible and it's definitely a lot better than anything you can manage with Gamma D, but it's noticeably not as good, with mixed scenes, as my -10 aperture SDR calibration.

Quote:
What I was saying was that if the UHZ is refined in other areas like the processor and lens, then it can make up for the lack of class-leading contrast with an overall solid image --IF Optoma can get the blacks to a satisfactory threshold using the laser. I'm not going to compare the UHD lamp version with JVC blacks. No consumer projector can do blacks like these JVC RS5xx/6xx anyway.
"lack of class-leading", that's a very politically correct way of putting it . The UHZ is going to have (unless they pull a new magical light engine out of their hat) among the worst contrast of any projector in the >$4000 price range. The best it's reasonable to expect it to be is 2000:1, probably less (it will probably be the same as the UHD65) Sony's 1080p and Epson's LCD are 3-4 times that. The RS400 is 20 times that (worst case). All of those are likely brighter too.
stanger89 is offline  
post #623 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
It's not "fine" when it comes to contrast. For example, this is how much it lowers the contrast on the BenQ W7000:





Photo credit goes to @zombie10k . DLP Link is cheap for manufacturers to implement, but all DLP Link implementations are detrimental to image quality simply by the nature of how it works. Maybe if these projectors had contrast to spare, but when you're already at sub 1000:1 you don't want to lower it even more to add in 3D.
And, here is the proof that those above images are misleading, or at least what you get when you buy the incorrect/suboptimal 3D glasses hardware. Note that I know IR emitter 3D may be preferable to some, but I like DLP link as it just works - no need for emitter.

Note this is a quick pic I took that I didn't square up with screen, etc, just a quick and dirty image to show you the difference between DLP link without color correction and with 3D glasses DLP link color correction, as the difference is dramatic. This is w/ BenQ W7000 defaults for 3D, using Optoma ZD201.

Left hand side of screen is without 3D glasses - note the red tint and washed out blacks in the letter box bar. Middle of right hand side of screen is through glasses, note how the LBX bar is pulled back into black and the red tint is removed.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	gatsbymenu.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	140.7 KB
ID:	2237937  

Last edited by Ruined; 07-15-2017 at 11:00 AM.
Ruined is offline  
post #624 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 11:05 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,232
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked: 6261
DLP link still hurts the overall image. 30K can support DLP link and IR. I always prefer the IR better with no added signal image to the source.

The Optoma ZD201 glasses have lenses that are too small, I always used to see the frame in peripheral vision during viewing.

There is no reason BenQ couldn't have put in a 3 pin VESA port for $9,000 if they knew they were going to add 3D at a later time.
zombie10k is online now  
post #625 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 11:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
DLP link still hurts the overall image. 30K can support DLP link and IR. I always prefer the IR better with no added signal image to the source.

The Optoma ZD201 glasses have lenses that are too small, I always used to see the frame in peripheral vision during viewing.

There is no reason BenQ couldn't have put in a 3 pin VESA port for $9,000 if they knew they were going to add 3D at a later time.
30K is out of production, not being repaired by Sharp, and you can't get OEM lamps from Sharp. So for me this is not really an option to even consider when looking at modern projectors.

There is a new version of the ZD201, ZD302 but w/ bigger lenses:
https://www.amazon.com/Optoma-ZD302-...dp/B00O394RQC/

Just not worth the money for me to rebuy for new model since I have 8 pairs of ZD201 Only way I'd do it is if I got a projector that supported 144hz 3D, as the W7000 only does 120hz. But Optoma does make the best DLP link glasses, the XpanD DLP link glasses I tried were dreadful in comparison as they didn't color correct for the DLP link flash.

BenQ appears to have licensed this chassis from another company, so they were likely limited to what it came with. Not to mention having a non-functional port with promise for later use is class action lawsuit grounds if they fail to enable it at some point.
Nick Laslett likes this.
Ruined is offline  
post #626 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 11:27 AM
Toe
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 16,877
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2832 Post(s)
Liked: 3788
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
30K is out of production, not being repaired by Sharp, and you can't get OEM lamps from Sharp. So for me this is not really an option to even consider when looking at modern projectors.

There is a new version of the ZD201, ZD302 but w/ bigger lenses:
https://www.amazon.com/Optoma-ZD302-...dp/B00O394RQC/

Just not worth the money for me to rebuy for new model since I have 8 pairs of ZD201 Only way I'd do it is if I got a projector that supported 144hz 3D, as the W7000 only does 120hz. But Optoma does make the best DLP link glasses, the XpanD DLP link glasses I tried were dreadful in comparison as they didn't color correct for the DLP link flash.

BenQ appears to have licensed this chassis from another company, so they were likely limited to what it came with. Not to mention having a non-functional port with promise for later use is class action lawsuit grounds if they fail to enable it at some point.
Appreciate the info/link as I did not know about these. I always liked my 201s, but they broke a while back and I've been using a few other brands I have here. Will give these a shot.

Last edited by Toe; 07-15-2017 at 11:30 AM.
Toe is online now  
post #627 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 11:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Appreciate the info/link as I did not know about these. I always liked my 201s, but they broke a while back and I've been using a few other brands I have here. Will.give these a shot.
Cool, let me know if they look as good as the ZD201s. I actually bought all my ZD201s from like Amazon Germany or something when they first came out since they weren't being carried by US.
Toe likes this.
Ruined is offline  
post #628 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,232
Mentioned: 187 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5681 Post(s)
Liked: 6261
if BenQ is claiming they can add in the 3D via firmware update, maybe Optoma can do the same and realize this isn't the TV market.

$5,000 and no 3D is a no sale regardless of how cool the light source is.
zombie10k is online now  
post #629 of 2104 Old 07-15-2017, 11:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ruined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,859
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked: 1273
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
if BenQ is claiming they can add in the 3D via firmware update, maybe Optoma can do the same and realize this isn't the TV market.

$5,000 and no 3D is a no sale regardless of how cool the light source is.
Would be nice to see, because I'm not really interested in the BenQs in their current state - but the UHZ65 looks nice.

Depends if this FW update is a TI update or something specific to a video processor BenQ used, I assume. But maybe this is part of why the UHZ65/4K500/HK2288 are coming out later in the year? Again, assuming the FW update actually comes to fruition
Ruined is offline  
post #630 of 2104 Old 07-17-2017, 01:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
BondDonBond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: US
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Hmmm, Ok I might be confused and I am not an engineer.

1) Is it fair to say that for good 4K HDR you need Lumens more than contrast? Yes I know you want both in perfect world.
2) For proper HDR you want 1000nits (about 10,000 lumens)
3) To most people if they have great HDR the contrast (Black) would be overlooked
4) Color gamut of course is important but the article about Joe Kane's presentation was interesting about 2020 on the main page of AVS

Soooo wouldn't you want laser with highest lumens you can afford since no one has high lumens high contrast under 100K and even then not to spec.

Here is a spec on a cinema projector that really confused me and there most are like this.

Resolution 4,096 x 2,160
Brightness Up to 56,000 lumens
Native contrast ratio 2,800:1 (typical) / 500:1 ANSI contrast (typical)

Home Theater: JVC RS2000, Stewart 120" 2:35 StudioTech 130, Panamorph DCR Lens, B&W 802 Nautilus, HTM1, 4-B&W 805's for surround, 4-Martin Logan 22's ceiling speakers ATMOS, 2- PB-16 Ultra Subs, Marantz 8802A, MacIntosh 8207 AMP and Proceed AMP 5, Panasonic 820, Apple TV, XBox One, HTPC with MadVR, Qnap NAS
BondDonBond is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off