Optoma UHZ65 - 4K laser ($4,500 MSRP) - Page 31 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #901 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:19 AM
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Let's move discussion about "mine is better" aside a bit and google for some more specs.

Somehow I got pointed to "asia.optoma.com" which has a few different bits compared to the USA website:

http://asia.optoma.com/projectorproduct/uhz65

Interesting bits:

* The UHZ65 built in with the 2nd generation of color enhancement technology from Optoma, with unique Phosphor wheel and color wheel design, it delivers superior coverage of 100% Rec.709 gamut, and 84% of DCI-P3 coverage, with BT.2020 compatible.

* The UHZ65’s light source provides a remarkable 20,000 hours, eliminating the need to replace the light source throughout the life of the projector.

* IP5X proof level for total reliability. (Dust Resistance)

* Instant on/off

* 3 steps of Dynamic Black setting, and offers 11 steps of laser dimming adjustment. (from 50% to 100%)

* ISF modes This feature allows you to save your calibrated day and night mode settings for the highest possible viewing experience

* MHL Turn your projector into a smart display by connecting a smartphone or tablet with a single cable using MHL to play games, stream videos and share photos on the big screen.

* USB power Use the USB-Power to power an HDMI dongle, such as Google Chromecast.

* Colour Wheel RGBY 4 Segment color wheel

* F=2.5~ 3.26, f=20.91 ~ 32.62 mm manual focus (F stop lens specs indicate how much light gets dropped when zooming. So almost a full stop when fully zoomed)

* 1xHDMI 1.4a, 1xHDMI 2.0 (w/ HDCP 2.2, MHL 2.1 and Full 18Gbps), VGA-In, Audio-In (3.5mm), Audio-Out, SDPIF Out (Optical/2 Channel ONLY), USB 2.0 Port (Service), USB-A Power, RJ45, RS232C

* 400W Typical (Bright mode), 460W Max (Bright mode), 240W Typical (Eco+ mode), 275W Max (Eco+ mode) (shocking, I thought laser would be more LED like in power usage?!)

Chances are that these specs will also carry over to the Acer LV7860.

Yves

Last edited by Yves Smolders; 10-15-2017 at 08:22 AM.
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post #902 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
So how is what you said not misinformation based on your criteria? How can you not see the hypocrisy?




You didn't tell me how the laser is better than a mechanical DI. Will the laser have more than 256 steps of gradation? Will it be fast enough to do modulation on a frame-by-frame basis to the point where it can choose ANY point of it's modulation to go to fast enough? If so, please point to me to show me where it says this. Mechanical DIs with these qualifications are already out there. You don't need it to be faster than this because why would you need it to modulate faster than what's on the next frame of information? I have actual REAL facts to back my claims up. Yours is all based on speculation and what you hope will happen. So who's the one spreading misinformation? I tell you an 8x multiplier will be poor based on empirical evidence and you pull this "there will be a 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x mode" story completely out of thin air. Please point me to something where it says multiple modes like this will be offered? If not, what you're posting is absolutely misinformation which you're trying to use to hype up this projector. This is the reason why I post in this thread...to stop this.
Well per the above specs posted by Yves it appears that my prediction was correct in that UHZ65 does indeed support multiple steps (3) of dynamic black mode and additionally 11 levels of laser brightness setting.



Based on other DLP solid state projectors I would guess the dynamic black steps will be 4x, 8x, Max (8x + laser off on fade to black)

Now the next question, how smooth is the action which we won't know until a hands on review. Which won't be done by me due to this pj currently lacking in other areas such as 3D bluray support.

Last edited by Ruined; 10-15-2017 at 08:37 AM.
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post #903 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:39 AM
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There is also a link to the manual... according to which, this projector is 3D ready?! Although 60P only - not sure if that is truly a problem...

http://asia.optoma.com/uploads/quick...5-QS-en-ZW.pdf

Also nice info in there:

* IR Codes
* Class 1 laser Risk Group 2 (Class 4 laser module)
* Clearance needed for ventilation
* A weird entry on page 21 - Display Modes contain a setting called "ISF 3D" :/ Also Gamma has a "3D" entry.
* 3D entries under the display menu also: 3D mode on/off, 3D mode Sync Invert?
* YUV color space next to RGB (full/limited) and a lot of color settings (CMS for RGBCYMW, brightness, x & y offset, RGB bias & gain (100 levels)

Very interesting - power settings for laser!

* (Power = 100%/ 95%/ 90%/ 85%/ 80%/ 75%/ 70%/ 65%/ 60%/ 55%/ 50%) - this might be very interesting to set your black level. Much more than just "high/eco lamp"
* Aspect Ratio: 4:3, 16:9, LBX (letterbox), superwide, native, auto. "If you use an external anamorphic lens, this LBX mode also allows you to watch a 2.35:1
content (include Anamorphic DVD and HDTV film source) that supports anamorphic wide is
enhanced for 16x9 Display in a wide 2.35:1 image. In this case, there are no black bars. Light
source power and vertical resolution are fully utilized."

* "Optional filter installed" in the setup menu - concerning filter reminders (300-1000h)
* high altitude mode
* Network/LAN modes (DHCP/manual IP settings...)- not sure why this is needed on the UHZ65 - apparently has Crestron, Extron, PJ Link, telnet & http control on board

Some more 3D stuff in the manual...

3D: To experience the 3D effect, you need to have 3D glasses, make sure your PC/portable device
has a 120 Hz signal output quad buffered graphics card and have a 3D Player installed.

ISF 3D: Optimize the image with the ISF 3D mode to be perfectly calibrated and high picture quality

Gamma - 3D: For 3D source.

Display 3D menu
Note:
‡ This projector is a 3D ready projector with DLP-Link 3D solution.
‡ Please make sure your 3D glasses are use for DLP-Link 3D before enjoy your video.
‡ This projector supports frame sequential (page-flip) 3D via HDMI1/HDMI2/VGA ports.
‡ To enable 3D mode, the input frame rate should be set to 60Hz only, lower or higher frame rate is not
supported.
‡ To reach the best performance, resolution 1920x1080 is recommended, please be noted that 4K
(3840x2160) resolution is not supported in 3D mode.
3D Mode
Switch the 3D mode on or off.
3D Sync Invert
‡ Press the “On” to invert left and right frame contents.

(So, 3D yes, but only 1080P60?)

HDMI EQ??

HDMI 1 EQ
Set the HDMI port EQ value for HDMI1.
HDMI 2 EQ
Set the HDMI port EQ value for HDMI2/MHL.
Note:
‡ HDMI EQ analyses the signal data and eliminates distortion due to signal loss when using long HDMI
cables. The HDMI receiver also includes a timing adjustment circuit that removes timing jitter, restoring
the HDMI signal to optimal transmission levels.
‡ [email protected] suggests using the HDMI cable under 5 meters.
‡ [email protected]/25Hz/24Hz suggests using the HDMI cable under 15 meters

Yves
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post #904 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post
There is also a link to the manual... according to which, this projector is 3D ready?!

Also nice info in there:

* IR Codes
* Class 1 laser Risk Group 2 (Class 4 laser module)
* Clearance needed for ventilation
* A weird entry on page 21 - Display Modes contain a setting called "ISF 3D" :/ Also Gamma has a "3D" entry.
* 3D entries under the display menu also: 3D mode on/off, 3D mode Sync Invert?
* YUV color space next to RGB (full/limited) and a lot of color settings (CMS for RGBCYMW, brightness, x & y offset, RGB bias & gain (100 levels)

Very interesting - power settings for laser!

* (Power = 100%/ 95%/ 90%/ 85%/ 80%/ 75%/ 70%/ 65%/ 60%/ 55%/ 50%) - this might be very interesting to set your black level. Much more than just "high/eco lamp"
* Aspect Ratio: 4:3, 16:9, LBX (letterbox), superwide, native, auto. "If you use an external anamorphic lens, this LBX mode also allows you to watch a 2.35:1
content (include Anamorphic DVD and HDTV film source) that supports anamorphic wide is
enhanced for 16x9 Display in a wide 2.35:1 image. In this case, there are no black bars. Light
source power and vertical resolution are fully utilized."

* "Optional filter installed" in the setup menu - concerning filter reminders (300-1000h)
* high altitude mode
* Network/LAN modes (DHCP/manual IP settings...)- not sure why this is needed on the UHZ65 - apparently has Crestron, Extron, PJ Link, telnet & http control on board

Some more 3D stuff in the manual...

3D: To experience the 3D effect, you need to have 3D glasses, make sure your PC/portable device
has a 120 Hz signal output quad buffered graphics card and have a 3D Player installed.

ISF 3D: Optimize the image with the ISF 3D mode to be perfectly calibrated and high picture quality

Gamma - 3D: For 3D source.

Display 3D menu
Note:
‡ This projector is a 3D ready projector with DLP-Link 3D solution.
‡ Please make sure your 3D glasses are use for DLP-Link 3D before enjoy your video.
‡ This projector supports frame sequential (page-flip) 3D via HDMI1/HDMI2/VGA ports.
‡ To enable 3D mode, the input frame rate should be set to 60Hz only, lower or higher frame rate is not
supported.
‡ To reach the best performance, resolution 1920x1080 is recommended, please be noted that 4K
(3840x2160) resolution is not supported in 3D mode.
3D Mode
Switch the 3D mode on or off.
3D Sync Invert
‡ Press the “On” to invert left and right frame contents.

(So, 3D yes, but only 1080P60?)

HDMI EQ??

HDMI 1 EQ
Set the HDMI port EQ value for HDMI1.
HDMI 2 EQ
Set the HDMI port EQ value for HDMI2/MHL.
Note:
‡ HDMI EQ analyses the signal data and eliminates distortion due to signal loss when using long HDMI
cables. The HDMI receiver also includes a timing adjustment circuit that removes timing jitter, restoring
the HDMI signal to optimal transmission levels.
‡ [email protected] suggests using the HDMI cable under 5 meters.
‡ [email protected]/25Hz/24Hz suggests using the HDMI cable under 15 meters
The 3D doesn't seem usable with Blu ray. I dont know of any device that converts 3DBD output to 60hz page flip, and if this pj does indeed output 3d at 60hz (possible since the lamp models can't disable xpr for some reason, unlike BenQ 4k which can), that will likely be painful to watch at 30hz/eye.
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post #905 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Well per the above specs posted by Yves it appears that my prediction was correct in that UHZ65 does indeed support multiple steps (3) of dynamic black mode and additionally 11 levels of laser brightness setting.



Based on other DLP solid state projectors I would guess the dynamic black steps will be 4x, 8x, Max (8x + laser off on fade to black)

Now the next question, how smooth is the action which we won't know until a hands on review. Which won't be done by me due to this pj currently lacking in other areas such as 3D bluray support.
According to the manual:

Dynamic Black 1, 2 and 3

Laser power 50% to 100% in 5% increments

Yves
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post #906 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:43 AM
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I'm ordering one of these as soon as they're available in Europe. I think it has a lot of potential (if one can live with not having JVC-blacks ).
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post #907 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post
According to the manual:

Dynamic Black 1, 2 and 3

Laser power 50% to 100% in 5% increments
Yeah what I'm saying is 1 2 and 3 are likely equal to contrast multiplier 4x, 8x, and 8x with ftb laser shutoff.
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post #908 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
The 3D doesn't seem usable with Blu ray. I dont know of any device that converts 3DBD output to 60hz page flip, and if this pj does indeed output 3d at 60hz (possible since the lamp models can't disable xpr for some reason, unlike BenQ 4k which can), that will likely be painful to watch at 30hz/eye.
I believe it will be 60 per eye, based on specs - vertical can rate:

Quote:
24Hz to 120Hz
3D might be possible but tricky, and not on all players. A PC could do it, maybe also some android devices (like the Zidoo players)

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post #909 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post
I believe it will be 60 per eye, based on specs - vertical can rate:



3D might be possible but tricky, and not on all players. A PC could do it, maybe also some android devices (like the Zidoo players)
The problem is the range is 120hz but XPR cuts this down to 60hz when doing the 4k shift. So if it can't disable xpr like the uhd60/65, it will be limited to 60hz.

The fact it only allows 60hz pageflip 3D input supports this possibility. Where will the rest of the frames come from for 120hz if it is only getting 60 on input? How do you make 24p look even remotely decent at 30hz output per eye? If it were 60hz checkerboard it would have enough frames to render 120hz, but not with 60hz page flip input.

Only way to do 120hz would be at native 2716x1528, which the other Optomas do not support. It is possible to disable xpr as the BenQ 4k DLPs do this, but no Optoma models have arrived with this ability yet.
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The Zidoo can only handle standard 1080p 24hz frame packed 3D playback.
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post #911 of 2104 Old 10-15-2017, 08:56 AM
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Good points guys,

Forget 3D it seems. The input resolutions also only show full HD, 3840x2160 and 4096x2160 inputs. Nothing concerning the native DLP resolution.

Still might be a good deal, depending on price - especially with the dynamic black function, depending on how well it works & the laser power settings are great.

3D will probably need another chip (unless the rumoured BENQ X12500 could pull something out of the hat)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post
Good points guys,

Forget 3D it seems. The input resolutions also only show full HD, 3840x2160 and 4096x2160 inputs. Nothing concerning the native DLP resolution.

Still might be a good deal, depending on price - especially with the dynamic black function, depending on how well it works & the laser power settings are great.

3D will probably need another chip (unless the rumoured BENQ X12500 could pull something out of the hat)
Technically I think the two BenQs currently on the market should be able to support 3D with a firmware update but no idea if that will happen for sure (but it is rumored).

For non 3d if you want both 4k uhd and solid state the value on this will be hard to beat though as the next cheapest model with these two properties is nearly 10k.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
The problem is the range is 120hz but XPR cuts this down to 60hz when doing the 4k shift. So if it can't disable xpr like the uhd60/65, it will be limited to 60hz.

The fact it only allows 60hz pageflip 3D input supports this possibility. Where will the rest of the frames come from for 120hz if it is only getting 60 on input? How do you make 24p look even remotely decent at 30hz output per eye? If it were 60hz checkerboard it would have enough frames to render 120hz, but not with 60hz page flip input.

Only way to do 120hz would be at native 2716x1528, which the other Optomas do not support. It is possible to disable xpr as the BenQ 4k DLPs do this, but no Optoma models have arrived with this ability yet.
The manual reads like old DLP 3D ready sets. The Optoma 3DXL could convert frame packed in sequential pageflip 3D. Could these old devices help?

Edit: never mind - if I would go for the UHZ65 (awaiting reviews) I'd keep my (degraded) HW50ES for 3D or even get a cheap Optima HD26 or such and run 2 projectors. Still cheaper than Sony Laser.

Yves

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post
The manual reads like old DLP 3D ready sets. The Optoma 3DXL could convert frame packed in sequential pageflip 3D. Could these old devices help?

Edit: never mind - if I would go for the UHZ65 (awaiting reviews) I'd keep my (degraded) HW50ES for 3D or even get a cheap Optima HD26 or such and run 2 projectors. Still cheaper than Sony Laser.
Nah those old dlp ready 3d sets used checkerboard 3d which actually contains 60hz of information per eye at half resolution.

60hz page flip 3d means 30hz per eye at full resolution which would be disasterous for 24fps even if you found a way to convert it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post
The manual reads like old DLP 3D ready sets. The Optoma 3DXL could convert frame packed in sequential pageflip 3D. Could these old devices help?



Edit: never mind - if I would go for the UHZ65 (awaiting reviews) I'd keep my (degraded) HW50ES for 3D or even get a cheap Optima HD26 or such and run 2 projectors. Still cheaper than Sony Laser.


I’ve thought about hanging onto my Epson 5030 for 3D if this ends up being an otherwise great projector but at this point I may hold out one more year.

I think my next PJ will be a laser though, maybe this will help bring those prices into a reasonable price range.


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Get over the lack of 3D, the format is DEAD!

Guys, if you have been paying attention, NO major manufacturer is supporting 3D on flat panels these days, and the 4k/UHD spec doesnt support 3D at all. Get used to the fact that 3D is dying (quickly) and that most new equipment is not going to support it. I know some of you have an attachment to it, but the sales numbers show that this feature wasn't driving sales, and often wasn't even USED by the majority of customers.
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Guys, if you have been paying attention, NO major manufacturer is supporting 3D on flat panels these days, and the 4k/UHD spec doesnt support 3D at all. Get used to the fact that 3D is dying (quickly) and that most new equipment is not going to support it. I know some of you have an attachment to it, but the sales numbers show that this feature wasn't driving sales, and often wasn't even USED by the majority of customers.
I don't know about that. They are coming out with new 3D movies every week.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nemesh View Post
Guys, if you have been paying attention, NO major manufacturer is supporting 3D on flat panels these days, and the 4k/UHD spec doesnt support 3D at all. Get used to the fact that 3D is dying (quickly) and that most new equipment is not going to support it. I know some of you have an attachment to it, but the sales numbers show that this feature wasn't driving sales, and often wasn't even USED by the majority of customers.
Might be dead to you but with a 140 disk investment I'd like my viewing device to be 3D compatible.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nemesh View Post
Guys, if you have been paying attention, NO major manufacturer is supporting 3D on flat panels these days, and the 4k/UHD spec doesnt support 3D at all. Get used to the fact that 3D is dying (quickly) and that most new equipment is not going to support it. I know some of you have an attachment to it, but the sales numbers show that this feature wasn't driving sales, and often wasn't even USED by the majority of customers.

You are comparing apples to oranges, IMHO. Frankly, I never believed that 3D would make a long lasting impact with flat panels because you're not swimming with sharks (large screen projection) but looking at an acquarium. Same with blockbuster films: Where large screen projection opens a window to another world, it's more like looking at a dollhouse on a flat screen.


It's a rather sad thing that the 4K DLP front projector manufacturers didn't consider this, but 3D will survive at least as a niche product (which goes for stereoscopic hobbies in general) in the home theater segment.

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It's a rather sad thing that the 4K DLP front projector manufacturers didn't consider this, but 3D will survive at least as a niche product (which goes for stereoscopic hobbies in general) in the home theater segment.
And in the VR segment IMHO...

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post #921 of 2104 Old 10-17-2017, 08:31 AM
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You are comparing apples to oranges, IMHO. Frankly, I never believed that 3D would make a long lasting impact with flat panels because you're not swimming with sharks (large screen projection) but looking at an acquarium. Same with blockbuster films: Where large screen projection opens a window to another world, it's more like looking at a dollhouse on a flat screen.


It's a rather sad thing that the 4K DLP front projector manufacturers didn't consider this, but 3D will survive at least as a niche product (which goes for stereoscopic hobbies in general) in the home theater segment.
Well, it might survive in some form...not all manufacturers have completely abandoned it...but the list of those that have grows longer every day. While we still have new movies being released as well, we will probably see a decline in software soon as a direct result of 4k adoption (and purchases of sets and players that dont support 3D).

I wanted 3D to succeed as much as anyone when it launched, but the combination of lack of support from cable and broadcasters paired with cheap and dirty "3D Conversions" of movies that had no business being in 3D in the first place killed it for me...and, apparently, for most consumers.
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post #922 of 2104 Old 10-17-2017, 08:33 AM
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I pulled the trigger yesterday and ordered the UHZ65! I am expecting it to arrive in a week or two. As soon as it arrives I will post my impressions...and answer any questions you guys have.
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post #923 of 2104 Old 10-17-2017, 09:07 AM
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Cannot wait for you to give us your impressions. I am waiting for the possibility of seeing it and compare it to the Sony 260 (285). I also would love it to be 3D as I do enjoy the format although not all films were great. So if all other aspects of the Uhz turn out to be good, I will accept doing without 3D
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post #924 of 2104 Old 10-17-2017, 09:37 AM
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Cannot wait for you to give us your impressions. I am waiting for the possibility of seeing it and compare it to the Sony 260 (285). I also would love it to be 3D as I do enjoy the format although not all films were great. So if all other aspects of the Uhz turn out to be good, I will accept doing without 3D
Well, I dont have a Sony to compare it to, but TV Specialists have a side by side comparison with the Sony $8000 projector, and it came out pretty good against that! Surprisingly, the detail was better on the UHZ than the Sony, even though the Sony is "native" and the UHZ is a pixel shifter! Color was also very good on the Optoma, and contrast was very close...and the Optoma was significantly brighter (after calibration).

The biggest downside to the Optoma that I see in comparison is the complete lack of horizontal lens shift, and limited zoom and vertical shift. If you can place the projector where it needs to be, those limitations are no big deal...but for some will be a complete dealbreaker if they can not accommodate for proper placement.
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post #925 of 2104 Old 10-17-2017, 09:48 AM
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Thanks John I have seen the comparison. For me it is not a problem to place it correctly as I have built a special system that allows me to place the projector as I need. Only limitation I have is weight as I am limited to 15 / 16 kg max
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post #926 of 2104 Old 10-17-2017, 10:34 AM
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Thanks John I have seen the comparison. For me it is not a problem to place it correctly as I have built a special system that allows me to place the projector as I need. Only limitation I have is weight as I am limited to 15 / 16 kg max
Fortunately this one is 9-10kg...so you should be good!
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post #927 of 2104 Old 10-19-2017, 08:36 AM
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Just got tracking...projector arrives tomorrow!
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post #928 of 2104 Old 10-19-2017, 10:04 AM
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I pulled the trigger yesterday and ordered the UHZ65! I am expecting it to arrive in a week or two. As soon as it arrives I will post my impressions...and answer any questions you guys have.
Super.

If you are a previous rgbrgb dlp owner I'd love to know how rainbow effect compares with the UHZ65 rgby.

Also would love to know how visible the dynamic black modes are, can give you some time indexes from tough scenes from batman the dark knight BD if you have it.
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post #929 of 2104 Old 10-19-2017, 10:30 AM
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Super.

If you are a previous rgbrgb dlp owner I'd love to know how rainbow effect compares with the UHZ65 rgby.

Also would love to know how visible the dynamic black modes are, can give you some time indexes from tough scenes from batman the dark knight BD if you have it.
Well, it might be good demo material, but I LOATHED that movie...sorry! I have Kong, Planet Earth II and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 on UHD blu-ray (despite not owning a player yet!)
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post #930 of 2104 Old 10-19-2017, 10:47 AM
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Well, it might be good demo material, but I LOATHED that movie...sorry! I have Kong, Planet Earth II and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 on UHD blu-ray (despite not owning a player yet!)
Congrats, John. This projector has plenty of strong selling points. Yes, I second Ruined's suggestion. I'd like to hear your impressions of UHZ65 too. If you had a prior projector or have one available for side-by-side comparison, maybe draw those comparisons.
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