JVC DLA-X5900/X7900/X9900 : JVC will introduce 3 new DLA models at IFA BERLIN 2017 - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
They can get the fix, it just can't be handled by a regular firmware update.


Has that been confirmed?

All that was announced was that it would be fixed in newly manufactured units - I thought. No mention of fixes for existing units in the field.
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post #1742 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
~

The RSx00s do auto switch for HDR, they auto switch to Gamma D. But beyond that, none of those things were supposed to work. They're all things we would like to have been enabled, but JVC clearly made a conscious decision for those features to not be incorporated.

~.
fair enough, well then am asking for 2020/2084 to be auto selected.

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~

Because JVC fixes bugs, fixes things that weren't working like they were intended to, for example banding with CMD on the 2017 models, and the DI on the RS4500 where they've provided a couple updates. But they don't add new features, like new gammas, etc. It probably helps that I'm an engineer so I know how to look at it from a change management perspective, which makes it easier to understand. For example in the RSx00 design, there's probably a requirement (design decision) for the DI to be disabled with HDR, and there's probably no requirement to auto-switch to Rec.2020 (especially considering it didn't include a Rec.2020 colorspace at launch), and there was probably an equation for the Gamma D response. I can only assume that Gamma D meets their designed equation, and the rest works as designed. From a change management perspective, enabling the DI, adding an ST.2084 EOTF, adding auto-switching to ST.2084/Rec.2020 would be enhancments, where as something like banding with CMD is a defect. It's sort of a subtle distinction.

~
yeah however after owning the projector nov2015 to april 2016 rec2020 and a firmware update came along. so I cant see why rec2084 and another firmware update fixing things like the auto iris that doesnt work with hdr.... cant be sorted ?

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~

And FWIW, I definitely don't like it, JVC seems to be a little too strict with their policy. At work, we evaluate not just whether something is an enhancement or defect, but also the cost to implement, we implement enhancements frequently if they are not costly. For example enabling the DI, adding an ST.2084 EOTF and adding auto-switching to an HDR memory, are clearly not difficult to implement given that users have effectively done it themselves. IMO JVC should be taking care of their customers and porting those simple features back into older models when it's not difficult. It would improve the brand image and and customer goodwill.

But, it is what it is, and seems relatively standard for these giant consumer electronics conglomerates.
agree, am an engineer too, a qualified professional one, 20+ years across many industries. if i had this kind of attitude to our customers I wouldnt be in the role I am now. I agree the changes to fix past issues dont seem complex. my unit is still under warranty. am not sure it is standard for giant companies. as mentioned sony for instance are pushing through what would be considered features back flushing them to units that never came with e.g. HLG and DV as they have reported and they have a record of doing so. JVC also have a record of doing so with updates and fix they provided with the 2015 units and same with say CMD fix being provided so dont understand this new approach. one approach could build loyalty and delight customers the new approach just building bad blood and especially amongst the early adopters with what are $000's units we arent talking chicken feed here. we all cant support their line of thinking that we should be just dumping and upgrading. and if thats their new approach I'm not sure how many people will be too keen to jump on board in the future. it sure has left a bad taste...

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post #1743 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post
Has that been confirmed?

All that was announced was that it would be fixed in newly manufactured units - I thought. No mention of fixes for existing units in the field.
It has been confirmed for here in the US.
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post #1744 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 06:57 PM
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fair enough, well then am asking for 2020/2084 to be auto selected.



yeah however after owning the projector nov2015 to april 2016 rec2020 and a firmware update came along. so I cant see why rec2084 and another firmware update fixing things like the auto iris that doesnt work with hdr.... cant be sorted ?



agree, am an engineer too, a qualified professional one, 20+ years across many industries. if i had this kind of attitude to our customers I wouldnt be in the role I am now. I agree the changes to fix past issues dont seem complex. my unit is still under warranty. am not sure it is standard for giant companies. as mentioned sony for instance are pushing through what would be considered features back flushing them to units that never came with e.g. HLG and DV as they have reported and they have a record of doing so. JVC also have a record of doing so with updates and fix they provided with the 2015 units and same with say CMD fix being provided so dont understand this new approach. one approach could build loyalty and delight customers the new approach just building bad blood and especially amongst the early adopters with what are $000's units we arent talking chicken feed here. we all cant support their line of thinking that we should be just dumping and upgrading. and if thats their new approach I'm not sure how many people will be too keen to jump on board in the future. it sure has left a bad taste...
Same thing happens with other companies. Look at the VW600, No firmware update for HDr. You had to buy the VW665. I was an owner of the VW600 at the time.
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post #1745 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 07:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Same thing happens with other companies. Look at the VW600, No firmware update for HDr. You had to buy the VW665. I was an owner of the VW600 at the time.
The 385ES too. It comes in less than the 365ES and those owners got snubbed a dynamic iris. I realize this is a physical difference, but obviously the cost to add something like this is not expensive. I see it as no different than not adding software features. I feel like because of small evolutionary changes made each year they're using these software (and sometimes hardware) updates as selling points on why someone should be buying the new model over a previous one when they could have added these features in if they wanted to.
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post #1746 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Same thing happens with other companies. Look at the VW600, No firmware update for HDr. You had to buy the VW665. I was an owner of the VW600 at the time.
hi mike, i am totally understanding where its a significant change e.g. adding HDR to non HDR projectors is a big deal e.g. output and all else goes with it. but stuff where its enabling auto iris or the 2084 or switching why not. am not asking for significant things like low lag gaming or anything or anything else major to back flush.

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The 385ES too. It comes in less than the 365ES and those owners got snubbed a dynamic iris. I realize this is a physical difference, but obviously the cost to add something like this is not expensive. I see it as no different than not adding software features. I feel like because of small evolutionary changes made each year they're using these software (and sometimes hardware) updates as selling points on why someone should be buying the new model over a previous one when they could have added these features in if they wanted to.
agree sucks... am talking trinkets here to keep the tribes happy. they aren't right now.

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post #1747 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 08:14 PM
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Same thing happens with other companies. Look at the VW600, No firmware update for HDr. You had to buy the VW665. I was an owner of the VW600 at the time.
It really is a similar experience across manufactures, so you can't really single out ONE manufacturer. We here on AVS have had mixed success over the years, with NEC (HT1000), Sony ( SXRD projectors) and JVC. There is no telling what tilts company decision makers in Japan (all three companies), to pull the trigger on one upgrade and not on others which seem just as deserving.

Part of it might be the level of discussion on various forums as well as criticism among product reviewers who have their ear.

I spoke with a JVC Long Beach tech team associate today (actually located in Florida) and we talked a length about implementing some of the software based features from the x40 (M9) series projectors in to the x20 (M8) projectors. My feeling was they don't do it because it would be opening a pandora's box of upgrades.
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post #1748 of 2570 Old 09-17-2017, 11:39 PM
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Hey Al,

Can you do me a favour, please call Peter at JVC Australia and ask him these questions yourself.

When I talk to him about issues, he reports that he can 'count on one hand' the amount of people reporting said issues and its highly unusual. Also JVC need to know people are annoyed, and since you bought your unit in AU, I think its only right you take your issue to them directly?

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Ask for Peter.

Dont mention me otherwise he will just think I am sending complains his way, we need them to start receiving individual grievances.
Yeah good old Pete, you are better off talking to a brick wall...
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post #1749 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
,,,if i had this kind of attitude to our customers I wouldnt be in the role I am now. I agree the changes to fix past issues dont seem complex. my unit is still under warranty. am not sure it is standard for giant companies. as mentioned sony for instance are pushing through what would be considered features back flushing them to units that never came with e.g. HLG and DV as they have reported and they have a record of doing so. JVC also have a record of doing so with updates and fix they provided with the 2015 units and same with say CMD fix being provided so dont understand this new approach. one approach could build loyalty and delight customers the new approach just building bad blood and especially amongst the early adopters with what are $000's units we arent talking chicken feed here. we all cant support their line of thinking that we should be just dumping and upgrading.
One thing that strikes me is how on every product cycle, a large number of JVC customers here at AVS make a big leap of faith, by pre-ordering new projectors, sight unseen. That demonstrates a large amount of goodwill on their part, and benefits JVC significantly. A lot of very well informed end-users get them right away, and talk them up. Thus resulting in even more sales for JVC, rapid market penetration, and an installed base that other potential customers will be exposed to. Plus LOTS of peer-level product support, that JVC doesn't have to provide or pay for.

It's rather unfortunate that JVC isn't willing to demonstrate a similar degree of goodwill to those same people, after the fact.

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...if thats their new approach I'm not sure how many people will be too keen to jump on board in the future. it sure has left a bad taste...
The thing is that I don't believe it IS a "new" approach, Al. I think Mike would tell you that has been JVC's standard policy for a long time. However that doesn't change the fact that in these most recent cycles there are a number of very simple things they COULD do to make their current customers happy. As has been said here repeatedly, by a chorus of owners. But why should they? People seem just as willing to 'jump' as they always have.

However, just because they have HAD a dedicated following in the past doesn't imply that they will retain that, if people are not happy with the way they are being treated.
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post #1750 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 03:02 AM
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Have no news to report. That is why I have not contacted you back. Should be contacting you sometime this week.
no problem, it just seemed like from the post to the 440 guy, you were sending out emails already
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post #1751 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:04 AM
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yeah however after owning the projector nov2015 to april 2016 rec2020 and a firmware update came along. so I cant see why rec2084 and another firmware update fixing things like the auto iris that doesnt work with hdr.... cant be sorted ?
Reread, according to JVC, those things aren't broken, so they won't be fixed. The firmware update JVC provided was to fix the EDID because it would cause a black screen/no image with the Samsung player. And as for Rec.2020, I'm kind of suprised they did it, but my best guess is that slipped through the cracks because it's not a firmware update.

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agree, am an engineer too, a qualified professional one, 20+ years across many industries. if i had this kind of attitude to our customers I wouldnt be in the role I am now. I agree the changes to fix past issues dont seem complex. my unit is still under warranty. am not sure it is standard for giant companies. as mentioned sony for instance are pushing through what would be considered features back flushing them to units that never came with e.g. HLG and DV as they have reported and they have a record of doing so.
DV is not coming to projectors, it's a Dolby problem not a Sony/JVC problem.

Quote:
JVC also have a record of doing so with updates and fix they provided with the 2015 units and same with say CMD fix being provided so dont understand this new approach. one approach could build loyalty and delight customers the new approach just building bad blood and especially amongst the early adopters with what are $000's units we arent talking chicken feed here. we all cant support their line of thinking that we should be just dumping and upgrading. and if thats their new approach I'm not sure how many people will be too keen to jump on board in the future. it sure has left a bad taste...
I agree that they could, and that they should, but that's not the way JVC operates. But there's nothing new about this, this is SOP for JVC since probably before the RS1. The only thing really different now is the pace of change in the industry around JVC. For a long time there was really nothing to update too. With the RS1, there really wasn't much for "features", it only had to deal with Rec.709 content, it had no DI, things were much simpler then. If it's EDID worked, if it could select different sources and sync to them, that's all there was.

And that's really probably the problem with JVC (and likely Sony as well), they're still stuck in a mindset from an era where you could release a display product, and there weren't going to be any feature/functionality changes that would affect it for years. I suspect JVC's display team hasn't really caught up to the fact that they're now working in an ever changing world, the RSx00 line is really the first line from JVC that have had this problem with "missing features" that could be easily added via firmware.

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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
hi mike, i am totally understanding where its a significant change e.g. adding HDR to non HDR projectors is a big deal e.g. output and all else goes with it. but stuff where its enabling auto iris or the 2084 or switching why not. am not asking for significant things like low lag gaming or anything or anything else major to back flush.
Except adding HDR is not a big deal, as we've proven with our own work on the forum, HDR support is just another EOTF, it wouldn't be hard, certainly no harder than not disabling the DI for HDR or auto-switching to a user mode.

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One thing that strikes me is how on every product cycle, a large number of JVC customers here at AVS make a big leap of faith, by pre-ordering new projectors, sight unseen. That demonstrates a large amount of goodwill on their part, and benefits JVC significantly. A lot of very well informed end-users get them right away, and talk them up. Thus resulting in even more sales for JVC, rapid market penetration, and an installed base that other potential customers will be exposed to. Plus LOTS of peer-level product support, that JVC doesn't have to provide or pay for.
I'm not sure I'd call it goodwill so much as knowing what to expect. I know I don't particularly like JVC as a company for their policies, I don't really feel any goodwill toward them, or any sort of loyalty. But I'm considering an RS540 or 640 preorder because I basically know what I will get. With the exception of a few rare turds JVC has dropped (like the ones with the lamp problems), a new JVC is pretty much always basically like an older JVC, but with more contrast and just overall better performance. So people jump, and it's usually for the slightly better contrast.

Quote:
However, just because they have HAD a dedicated following in the past doesn't imply that they will retain that, if people are not happy with the way they are being treated.
Unfortunately, there's nowhere to go. Sony has about the same indifference to it's customers, and they have more serious issues, actual defects (factory zone alignment, posterization, banding and degradation) that have gone unfixed for years, Epson just really isn't competitive against the midrange JVCs, and DLP just gave up the market all together. I said in this thread or another recently, I really don't think there's much loyalty to JVC here, and if someone else really brought out a competitive product and treated their customers better, people would jump, but that's not the market we live in.
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post #1752 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:08 AM
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AHHH! I miss my X9500 already , and to make matters worse, my copy of "Blade Runner" just arrived today!!

Its going to be a LOOOOONG wait!
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post #1753 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:26 AM
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~

DV is not coming to projectors, it's a Dolby problem not a Sony/JVC problem.

~
I believe sony engineer on record saying able to provide for the 760ES and via firmware update. theres a video knocking around

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~I really don't think there's much loyalty to JVC here, and if someone else really brought out a competitive product and treated their customers better, people would jump, but that's not the market we live in.
with JVCs last two moves (i.e. both product releases) they used up any loyalty I might have had. Any good will I might have had in being an early adopter i havent seen reciprocated in any fashion.

I've owned other brands before. And will have no qualms switching to other competitive option. and thats not beyond the realms of possibility. Sony regardless of the bashing they get do have some pockets of excellence albeit at a cost. and epson same e.g. their laser projector has garnered a lot of loyal followers and many who still like its aspects even if its lost its cutting edge.

so yeah perhaps this is jvcs prime... every dog has its day. tomorrow is another day and who knows what tomorrow will bring...

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post #1754 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:40 AM
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AHHH! I miss my X9500 already , and to make matters worse, my copy of "Blade Runner" just arrived today!!

Its going to be a LOOOOONG wait!
Well if it helps, I spent most of Saturday scrutinizing the X9500/RS620 using the same footage I viewed the X9900/RS640 at both IFA 2017 in Berlin and CEDIA 2017 in San Diego and subjectively speaking there definitely seems to be significantly less video noise with the X9900/RS640, so it would appear that there is indeed a difference between e-Shift4 and e-Shift5. Also, I tested Blade Runner on both the X9500/RS640 and RS4500/Z1 and in some of the low APL scenes in Blade Runner there was video e-Shift associated video noise being added with the X9500/RS640 that wasn't present with the RS4500/Z1, which we expect will be significantly reduced with the X9900/RS640. We are hoping for early delivery of a X9900/RS640 from JVC to be able to carry out some proper side-by-side comparisons ASAP where at it happens we're intending on using Blade Runner as a test disc. So, whilst it's a pain waiting, at least when you do get to see it on your shiny new projector you will be enjoying Blade Runner with better video performance.

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post #1755 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:46 AM
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post #1756 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:52 AM
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I could be wrong, but Sony saying that they could implement DV via a firmware upgrade does't necessarily mean they will, or that it will work for everyone if they did. It just means that have the facility/ability to do it.

Or am I just being cynical?

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post #1757 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 05:59 AM
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I've owned other brands before. And will have no qualms switching to other competitive option. and thats not beyond the realms of possibility. Sony regardless of the bashing they get do have some pockets of excellence albeit at a cost. and epson same e.g. their laser projector has garnered a lot of loyal followers and many who still like its aspects even if its lost its cutting edge.
If Sony's pricing wasn't ludicrous, I might consider them, I have more of a problem with that, than JVC's lack of feature updates. On top of that the continuing, unresolved defects with their product line, and their penchant for relying on electronic processing to make up lackluster lenses is a big turn off.

Epson, well, if the LS10500 was about 50% brighter, and didn't have a loss of sharpness with their pixel shifting engaged, well I'd be interested there too.

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so yeah perhaps this is jvcs prime... every dog has its day. tomorrow is another day and who knows what tomorrow will bring...
There just doesn't seem like a lot out there that can compete with the RS540 or 640 at those price points.

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I could be wrong, but Sony saying that they could implement DV via a firmware upgrade does't necessarily mean they will, or that it will work for everyone if they did. It just means that have the facility/ability to do it.

Or am I just being cynical?
That's basically how I took it, if Dolby ever defines DV for projectors, Sony thought they could add it with a firmware update. The ball still seems to be squarely in Dolby's court, who seems to have no interest in defining DV for projectors.
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post #1758 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:03 AM
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Link please !

.
its been mentioned a couple of times in this thread,

I believe its this one here

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post54746090

note the get out clause though... still in discussions with dolby so cant say anything

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4cM...annel=AVForums

I don't know if this has been posted in this thread before but looking at the video from the 2:00 minute mark, when asked a question about Dolby Vision, he says "Regarding Dolby Vision, technically it is possible because it's gamma curve adjustment, so this is something we can offer by firmware update..."

Interesting.

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post #1759 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:11 AM
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I could be wrong, but Sony saying that they could implement DV via a firmware upgrade does't necessarily mean they will, or that it will work for everyone if they did. It just means that have the facility/ability to do it.

Or am I just being cynical?
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its been mentioned a couple of times in this thread,

I believe its this one here

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post54746090

note the get out clause though... still in discussions with dolby so cant say anything
I just watched the video... I think "technically its possible" and "at this moment we can't commit to anything" says it all really... So, no Gary I don't think you are being cynical... In fact, where Dolby Vision and home theater/cinema projectors are concerned, at the present time, I wouldn't say it's even possible to be cynical !

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post #1760 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:16 AM
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I was told this when visiting IFA, by the European product manager, during a private demo of the 760.

He specifically said, that Sony are in talks with Dolby about this, and this will only need a firmware upgrade, it can be done , but they are not committing to it.

He said this very very clearly.

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post #1761 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:20 AM
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I believe sony engineer on record saying able to provide for the 760ES and via firmware update. theres a video knocking around



with JVCs last two moves (i.e. both product releases) they used up any loyalty I might have had. Any good will I might have had in being an early adopter i havent seen reciprocated in any fashion.

I've owned other brands before. And will have no qualms switching to other competitive option. and thats not beyond the realms of possibility. Sony regardless of the bashing they get do have some pockets of excellence albeit at a cost. and epson same e.g. their laser projector has garnered a lot of loyal followers and many who still like its aspects even if its lost its cutting edge.

so yeah perhaps this is jvcs prime... every dog has its day. tomorrow is another day and who knows what tomorrow will bring...
I thought I read a response from Scott saying that the Sony rep was talking about the TV's? And yet when JVC brought out the 400, 500 & 600 with the ability to be able to do HDR with DCI color space, they were held in high esteem for being the first projector company to do so.

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post #1762 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:22 AM
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I thought I read a response from Scott saying that the Sony rep was talking about the TV's?
did you watch the video. there are two projectors in front of him and they are talking about projectors

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post #1763 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ran View Post
I was told this when visiting IFA, by the European product manager, during a private demo of the 760.

He specifically said, that Sony are in talks with Dolby about this, and this will only need a firmware upgrade, it can be done , but they are not committing to it.

He said this very very clearly.

Ran
yep. I know there is massive sony bashing on this forum. but watching the video, one thing i will say. the message clear and simple is sony is on an all out assault. the 760ES is great example of just how hard they are going.

if jvc doesnt get its act together its going to be soon, yesterdays news. as said earlier. perhaps this is its prime and all they are doing is tinkering at the edges. this is best it gets

but anyways time will tell.

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post #1764 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:24 AM
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I vote in the skeptical column but that doesn't mean I won't order one if it comes to pass.
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post #1765 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:29 AM
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did you watch the video. there are two projectors in front of him and they are talking about projectors
Not before I responded. I do not see that as any commitment to bringing out DV with a firmware update.
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post #1766 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:33 AM
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How often do any of the manufacturers provide significant feature upgrades to displays, whether that be TV's or projectors?? I know Samsung added support for HDR to some of their early 4k sets (I have one), but that seems like the exception rather than the rule. I also have a Vizio 4k TV without HDR that will probably never be upgraded.

To be honest, we have to buy whatever fills our needs and face the reality that it may need to be upgraded if it has limitations at the time. This is the reason I have not jumped in to 4k projection yet.

Seems like every model has had too many limitations/problems. Epson's sub 18mbit HDMI, no frame interpolation in 4k, lackluster HDR.

For JVC, lack of DI in HDR, e-shift issues, support for various HDR formats (add that one to Epson too).

etc....

Maybe, just maybe, this new line of JVC's will fix enough stuff for me to consider it.
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post #1767 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 06:56 AM
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yep. I know there is massive sony bashing on this forum. but watching the video, one thing i will say. the message clear and simple is sony is on an all out assault. the 760ES is great example of just how hard they are going.
Yeah, a great assault by charging us $10k more than Europe for the 885, a watered down 675 (the 385) for what they charge for the 550 in Europe, and a crippled 385 (the 285) to justify a lower price
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post #1768 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 07:23 AM
 
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Yeah, a great assault by charging us $10k more than Europe for the 885, a watered down 675 (the 385) for what they charge for the 550 in Europe, and a crippled 385 (the 285) to justify a lower price
I don't know. There seems to be a lot of buzz around the 285/385. We can't all be naive.

They will sell well outside of these forums. I can go see a Sony on display at multiple places locally. I have to hunt for a JVC demo.
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post #1769 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 07:42 AM
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the largest caveat with the 285/385 is crippling the lamp to 225w. it was done intentionally to separate the 385 vs. still current 675. The base 440 at 1/2 price will outgun it by 500+ lumens.

some can argue it's only a few hundred lumens but it means running the projector in high lamp most of the time depending on the content. Certainly for 3D and UHD HDR content.

also the default HDR Gamma doesn't look very good. EOTF has been established for a while now, it doesn't make sense why they just didn't make it accurate out of the box. The built in controls can tweak it a bit but won't be correct without an expensive $4500+ external VP or a future firmware update.


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post #1770 of 2570 Old 09-18-2017, 07:59 AM
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I don't know. There seems to be a lot of buzz around the 285/385. We can't all be naive.
There's a lot of buzz around the XPR DLPs too, despite their abysmal performance and feature sets (confirmed by numerous reviews). I don't put a lot of stock in buzz, it's as often wrong as it is right.

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They will sell well outside of these forums. I can go see a Sony on display at multiple places locally. I have to hunt for a JVC demo.
So what? I can find a Denon receiver at multiple places, but I have to hunt for an Anthem. More people will buy Denon than Anthem by a long shot, does that mean Anthem buyers are wrong? Should we all be buying what's easy to find?

Note that I'm not trying to draw parallels between Sony vs JVC and Denon vs Anthem except to say that one product being easier to find than another says nothing about their respective performance, it could be that the easy to find product is that way because it's got great performance and is very popular (iPod/iPhone), or it could just be because it's made by a big, well known brand with well established distribution and reseller infrastructure (Bose). Availability and sales volume tell you nothing about which of those it is.

If we go by availability and sales volume, $1000 DLP projectors dwarf anything we talk about in this forum, maybe we should all get rid of our JVCs, Sonys, and Epsons and switch over to BenQ W1070's.
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