JVC DLA-X5900/X7900/X9900 : JVC will introduce 3 new DLA models at IFA BERLIN 2017 - Page 86 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2551 of 2570 Old 07-26-2018, 11:42 PM
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Has anybody heard anything on JVC releasing a native 4k bulb based projector next year to be shown on IFA/CEDIA?
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post #2552 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by westmd View Post
Has anybody heard anything on JVC releasing a native 4k bulb based projector next year to be shown on IFA/CEDIA?
I wish I knew the answer to that too!

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post #2553 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by westmd View Post
Has anybody heard anything on JVC releasing a native 4k bulb based projector next year to be shown on IFA/CEDIA?
This is the rumor. Unfortunately, you can expect the contrast ratio to be low, as the RS4500 contrast ratio is also comparatively low when compared to their 1080p eshift panels. I guess we will have to see.

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post #2554 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
This is the rumor. Unfortunately, you can expect the contrast ratio to be low, as the RS4500 contrast ratio is also comparatively low when compared to their 1080p eshift panels. I guess we will have to see.
If they can get the contrast up, I would love to see a lamp based native 4K. If they can't, I would rather see a laser based E-shift. I will say a 15k or higher native contrast ratio lamp based native 4k with a shutter for full fade to black would be an interesting projector. Of course, still keeping the manual and dynamic iris system.
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post #2555 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 02:46 PM
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If they can get the contrast up, I would love to see a lamp based native 4K. If they can't, I would rather see a laser based E-shift. I will say a 15k or higher native contrast ratio lamp based native 4k with a shutter for full fade to black would be an interesting projector. Of course, still keeping the manual and dynamic iris system.
I don’t feel the 15k:1 4k lamp based projector offers anything new. If someone wants that then they can get a Sony now with those features and a better (less noticeable) iris.
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post #2556 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 03:19 PM
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I don’t feel the 15k:1 4k lamp based projector offers anything new. If someone wants that then they can get a Sony now with those features and a better (less noticeable) iris.
15k wide open maybe, but then if it has a dual iris system which the current top 2 model eshift machines have, then it will have a true 10x contrast multiplyer, thats now 150k:1 which is double what the 675ES is able to do (with real measurements not manufacturer claims), and also probably hit nearer 40k:1 with the iris closed down and no DI (which is where you should be measureing projector contrast anyway) which is again double the Sony's.

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post #2557 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 03:25 PM
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Plus full 18GB bandwidth, today you have to spend 25K to get it from Sony.
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post #2558 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
This is the rumor. Unfortunately, you can expect the contrast ratio to be low, as the RS4500 contrast ratio is also comparatively low when compared to their 1080p eshift panels. I guess we will have to see.
Pretty sure the RS4500 with a closed iris -15 is nearer 40k:1... @Kris Deering had measured it long ago. I know Mike was getting over 20k at mid iris level, so it sounds about right to me.

Its funny that with contrast, everybody keeps only talking about the RS4500 with fully open iris? Why? There are 15 more iris stops that increase the contrast people keep lacking to mention.

Thats like me going around saying my X9500 only has 43,000:1. When in fact, it does over 160k, and at 15fl where I actually watch it, I get 100k:1 all day long.

The fact is, Sony's can only gain about 4-5,000:1 by stopping down the iris max... HUGE disparity there.

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post #2559 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Pretty sure the RS4500 with a closed iris -15 is nearer 40k:1... @Kris Deering had measured it long ago. I know Mike was getting over 20k at mid iris level, so it sounds about right to me.

Its funny that with contrast, everybody keeps only talking about the RS4500 with fully open iris? Why? There are 15 more iris stops that increase the contrast people keep lacking to mention.

Thats like me going around saying my X9500 only has 43,000:1. When in fact, it does over 160k, and at 15fl where I actually watch it, I get 100k:1 all day long.

The fact is, Sony's can only gain about 4-5,000:1 by stopping down the iris max... HUGE disparity there.
The RS4500 has a lot more light than whatever bulb solution we would get so on the RS4500 you can afford to close the iris down and when you do that you still get dynamic dimming. I'm assuming we would get whatever bulb we have in our current RS line probably a 2615 with 2000 lumens uncalibrated to start. This puts us around 1200 lumens in low lamp with iris all the way open. I guess that alone is equivalent to clamping down the RS4500 iris a bunch? So where do we think the native contrast is on an RS4500 outputting around 1200 lumens? And how does that compare with an RS6xx iris at 0 with bulb on low?

There's no way I could watch one of these with the iris clamped down to -15 or -10 its just way too dim. At least using the dynamic iris I get a bit of the best of both. But that's another topic entirely.

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post #2560 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 03:45 PM
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The higher end Sony’s that are closer to the 4500 in price don’t have manual irises to help their native. The dynamic dimming on the 4500 works exceptionally well. I’ve had many over that own the lamp based JVCs to look at the 4500 and most thought the contrast performance was outstanding. Obviously pure true black but good in the low APl range too. The lamp based are better though if you can take advantage of the manual iris more aggressively due to the dual aperture and higher native. I complained in the review that the 4500 didn’t have the dual aperture. Still puzzles me why they didn’t offer it.
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post #2561 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The RS4500 has a lot more light than whatever bulb solution we would get so on the RS4500 you can afford to close the iris down and when you do that you still get dynamic dimming. I'm assuming we would get whatever bulb we have in our current RS line probably a 2615 with 2000 lumens uncalibrated to start. This puts us around 1200 lumens in low lamp with iris all the way open. I guess that alone is equivalent to clamping down the RS4500 iris a bunch? So where do we think the native contrast is on an RS4500 outputting around 1200 lumens? And how does that compare with an RS6xx iris at 0 with bulb on low?

There's no way I could watch one of these with the iris clamped down to -15 or -10 its just way too dim. At least using the dynamic iris I get a bit of the best of both. But that's another topic entirely.
Here are Cine4Homes numbers.. Calibrated.

Seems to be 15k:1 at 1200 lumens. Of course one would be using the dynamic dimming on this unit though.

http://cine4home.de/pics/chart.jpg

X7500 from Ekki. This must be a good sample, because they look more like X9500 numbers to me. 4x higher contrast everywhere than the 4500.

http://cine4home.de/pics/Chart2.jpg

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post #2562 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 04:20 PM
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. I’ve had many over that own the lamp based JVCs to look at the 4500 and most thought the contrast performance was outstanding..
I have had "exactly" the same result! A couple of people in fact were astonished, after reading the forums they expected a much,much different result.
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post #2563 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
I don’t feel the 15k:1 4k lamp based projector offers anything new. If someone wants that then they can get a Sony now with those features and a better (less noticeable) iris.
I said with a shutter that can give full fade to black. So the advantages would be:

1. Full fade to black.
2. Higher lumens.
3. DCI color space.
4. 18 Gbps HDMI.

Sounds like a pretty big difference to me from current 675.

Added
Forgot to add one item that I have previously talked about JVC needing to do and that is to reduce the input switching lag.

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post #2564 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 05:04 PM
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I said with a shutter that can give full fade to black. So the advantages would be:

1. Full fade to black.
2. Higher lumens.
3. DCI color space.
4. 18 Gbps HDMI.

Sounds like a pretty big difference to me from current 675.
Yea, lets compare to say the 675ES - perfect. I think on fade to black, it does pretty good. It's on actual dark scenes it lacks. I'm thinking the JVC offering will not have more lumens. It'll be the same thing we have now (2000 lumens) with a 4k panel. Those panels, btw, are 17:9 not 16:9 so some of the lumens is wasted in the cropping down to 16:9. I'm guessing the lumens will be almost same as the 675ES. I don't personally care about points 3 and 4, I'd never upgrade a 675es for those alone. That leaves basically only contrast. The projector will need to be able to render the 53 min interstellar scene, for example, with near perfect black or I'm super out. I watch tons of scifi. An episode of "The Expanse" is drastically different on the RS640 vs the 675ES. So much so that if I come off gaming and the Sony is on, I want to watch 1 quick show before bed, there's no way in the world I'd watch some scifi on the Sony. I really don't see a 4K JVC being different, but if I'm wrong, I'll buy it.

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post #2565 of 2570 Old 07-27-2018, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Yea, lets compare to say the 675ES - perfect. I think on fade to black, it does pretty good. It's on actual dark scenes it lacks. I'm thinking the JVC offering will not have more lumens. It'll be the same thing we have now (2000 lumens) with a 4k panel. Those panels, btw, are 17:9 not 16:9 so some of the lumens is wasted in the cropping down to 16:9. I'm guessing the lumens will be almost same as the 675ES. I don't personally care about points 3 and 4, I'd never upgrade a 675es for those alone. That leaves basically only contrast. The projector will need to be able to render the 53 min interstellar scene, for example, with near perfect black or I'm super out. I watch tons of scifi. An episode of "The Expanse" is drastically different on the RS640 vs the 675ES. So much so that if I come off gaming and the Sony is on, I want to watch 1 quick show before bed, there's no way in the world I'd watch some scifi on the Sony. I really don't see a 4K JVC being different, but if I'm wrong, I'll buy it.
I don't know that anybody would upgrade from a 675 to a lamp based native 4K JVC. I am talking about a person that was shopping for a projector and would be looking at the 675 vs the JVC. Of course, we don't know what Sony will do to the 675, so it could be a more level playing field. The Sony 675 is rated at 1,800 lumens, not 2,000 lumens and yes the JVC is currently brighter.
https://www.sony.com/electronics/pro...etails_default
Even with the 7% loss of the panel, the JVC would be brighter, but not enough to really mater.
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post #2566 of 2570 Old 08-11-2018, 07:00 AM
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I got offer on JVC x7900 for 4100 £ over 5 mounts OLD its DEMO unit with 400hours max. Its good price? And how much will be diference to my TW9300 if i dont have dedicated room? Or JVX x5900 will be bether choice?
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post #2567 of 2570 Old 08-12-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
X7500 from Ekki. This must be a good sample, because they look more like X9500 numbers to me. 4x higher contrast everywhere than the 4500.

http://cine4home.de/pics/Chart2.jpg
The X7900 I have is pretty close to that; Iris -11 I get somewhat north of 60K:1.
Going to be going in the unit lotto again to sort a replacement due to the broken lamp iris (measurement was before it broke). Hopefully I don't find out that what I think is a noisy eShift is actually what some folk round here refer to as silent... lol
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post #2568 of 2570 Old 12-24-2018, 10:14 PM
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Gamma and best color settings for a JVC X9900

I keep reading how some will say we should use a gamma setting of 2.2 to get more shadow detail on the JVC X9900, then others who say we should use much higher say 2.4

I have been using 2.4 for some time but wonder if Im loosing much detail, I can barly see 17 on the screen, have to get up close and search a bit for it. My room is a black pit but sometimes I feel that I crush black detail. I have a Studio Tec 130 curved scope screen 145".

Curious what the experts think here on the subject. I dont want to use a meter just the test discs.

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post #2569 of 2570 Old 12-25-2018, 01:36 AM
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Seems if you can see 17 on the screen at all you have set your black properly. I use 2.4 here.

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post #2570 of 2570 Old 12-25-2018, 05:50 AM
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I keep reading how some will say we should use a gamma setting of 2.2 to get more shadow detail on the JVC X9900, then others who say we should use much higher say 2.4
Use 2.4 if you prefer a more “contrasty” look. If you want more shadow detail you can turn up the “Dark Level” a bit. Using that combination will give you something similar to BT.1886 - lower gamma in the lower end with an overall gamma of around 2.3.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 12-25-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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