Ask Me Anything: Home-Theater Projection - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by darinp View Post
Just a quick question Scott. Are people who submitted questions in the original thread automatically entered, or only if the question is in this thread?

Thanks,
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A question in either thread counts as an entry.
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post #32 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Do you consider on/off contrast more than, less than or equal in importance to ANSI contrast?

Why do some organizations continue to push 80 to 1 in room contrast as a standard?
We consider them both critical. The CTA and CEDIA Home Theater Standard specifies both, as does the DCI standard. I serve on the Infocomm Contrast Committee, where the PISCR (Projected-Image System Contrast Ratio) specifies 80:1 ANSI contrast for full motion video with a clear explanation that this is not theatrical or movie based, but for corporate video. Expect a revision of that document shortly with the new term ISCR (Image System Contrast Ratio)
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post #33 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dschlic1 View Post
Can you discuss ways to transmit HDMI 2.0a data streams over long distances (>30ft)?
Excellent question!! - We are seeing major issues with long HDMI cables worldwide - we just tested a 100 meter fiber solution that was bulletproof - active copper and Active Optical Cable will be common solutions soon - we are very busy testing for HDMI products for the upcoming CEDIA show - and we are finally seeing good solutions.
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post #34 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:52 AM
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In what settings would you recommend a projector over a flat screen display?


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post #35 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:52 AM
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Many people ask me if I prefer an aspect ratio of 16:9 (1.78:1) or 2.40:1? We face that exact question when developing the home-theater standard for CTA and CEDIA. The only proper answer is that the screen aspect ratio should match the content's aspect ratio. So the best answer is a motorized masking screen. This also improves perceived contrast ratio. Should the masking be vertical (top and bottom) or horizontal (sides). It depends on what the client mostly watches. If it's mostly sports, I recommend starting with a 16:9 screen and using vertical masking for movies. If it's mostly movies, I recommend a 2.40:1 screen with horizontal masking for 16:9 content.
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post #36 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bricyboy View Post
In what settings would you recommend a projector over a flat screen display?


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If by "settings" you mean the room environment and size, since flat-screen TVs are limited in size, we need to go to projectors if the viewing distance and room demands a screen over 100". Also, we need reasonable if not perfect control of ambient light for a projector.
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post #37 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:55 AM
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Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced

Being a total noob to home theater (yes, I still have my 8mm projector) I just wanted to say thanks for the opportunity to listen in.

Just now getting our living room "back", and reading 'Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced' has piqued my interest, again.

With a limited budget (read cheap) it's easy enough to just go buy a new flat screen, but having a home theater on a budget might be kinda fun to research.

Thanks again,
-Rick
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post #38 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:55 AM
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Post 4k Projection

Hi there I've been trying to follow 4k projection for a while now. But it still seems like some top end expensive stuff. For a 1080p projector you can get some pretty fantastic quality for like under a grand. But I'm really interested in finally making the jump to 4k, I have a 4k media player and access to content, but what is the best bang for the buck on a 4k projector? Is it worth it yet? Should I just wait?
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post #39 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevolutioN64 View Post
Oh Thank Goodness!!! Please, Please, Please let them know that are passionate home theater enthusiasts out there, like myself, that do really enjoy 3D and want it to live on at least for us to view our current and future Blu-ray 3D collection.

Thank you for answering my questions...Take Care
I am totally with you on this. I love my Sony XBR65X930C and am perfectly okay with being stuck with it for a while. But after it needs replaced, I'm at a loss what to do. HDR/4K are nice and all, but 3D is where it's at for an immersive experience. I don't feel I really have room for a projector being able to only sit back about 8 feet or so. Grrr

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post #40 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:58 AM
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Two questions:

1) Any chance for direct laser projectors (instead of laser/phosphor)? That should make it much easier to reach wide gamut without light loss. And it might also increase the overall brightness, I suppose.

2) Any chance for chaining 2 LCOS or DLP chips in a row to increase both on/off and ANSI contrast? Or maybe add one additional lower res LCOS panel into the light path to implement some sort of "local dimming" for front projectors?
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post #41 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzo View Post
Being a total noob to home theater (yes, I still have my 8mm projector) I just wanted to say thanks for the opportunity to listen in.

Just now getting our living room "back", and reading 'Epson Home Cinema 2100 and 2150 HD Projectors Announced' has piqued my interest, again.

With a limited budget (read cheap) it's easy enough to just go buy a new flat screen, but having a home theater on a budget might be kinda fun to research.

Thanks again,
-Rick
Welcome back to home theater! Your timing is impeccable with the current advances in home-theater technology. The normal debate between a flat screen and a projector is bang for buck on a big screen. Given good light control, you can get a much larger picture for a given budget with a projector every time. If you're starting now, I recommend something that delivers 4K resolution and HDR.
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post #42 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSilver View Post
I serve on the Infocomm Contrast Committee, where the PISCR (Projected-Image System Contrast Ratio) specifies 80:1 ANSI contrast for full motion video with a clear explanation that this is not theatrical or movie based, but for corporate video. Expect a revision of that document shortly with the new term ISCR (Image System Contrast Ratio)
Thanks Joel. The PISCR standard lists business screen rooms as one of the things the 80:1 is supposed to apply to, and the 80:1 was based on watching movie content. As we've talked about, I consider this one of the biggest mistakes I have ever seen in a standard. I know you were not on the original committee, which did not check their assumptions, like they would have done if they had been doing proper science, as they thought they were doing. They pointed lights at the screen, which ruined the system on/off CR and the low level detail with it, then blamed system ANSI CR, when system ANSI CR had little to do with the problems they saw with their eyes with the movie content they chose for that category.

Will the 80:1 claim for when details are too hard to make out to follow the story in a movie continue to be part of the updated PISCR standard?

Thanks,
Darin
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post #43 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSilver View Post
We consider them both critical. The CTA and CEDIA Home Theater Standard specifies both, as does the DCI standard. I serve on the Infocomm Contrast Committee, where the PISCR (Projected-Image System Contrast Ratio) specifies 80:1 ANSI contrast for full motion video with a clear explanation that this is not theatrical or movie based, but for corporate video. Expect a revision of that document shortly with the new term ISCR (Image System Contrast Ratio)
Thanks.

I know one year Barco at Cedia was quoting that 80 to 1 in room contrast was all that was needed for a home theater. There was considerable discussion here on this topic. What do you consider the minimum ANSI and on/off cr ratios for a good home theater experience?

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post #44 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:01 PM
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Currently using a Epson 8350 on a shelf right above our couch. Looks good for Bluray but when we have guest for football games and add a little more lightning I'd rather watch my 64" Plasma. If I were to upgrade what type of versatile light cannon could perform better in light and dark room settings?
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post #45 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamAragon View Post
Hi there I've been trying to follow 4k projection for a while now. But it still seems like some top end expensive stuff. For a 1080p projector you can get some pretty fantastic quality for like under a grand. But I'm really interested in finally making the jump to 4k, I have a 4k media player and access to content, but what is the best bang for the buck on a 4k projector? Is it worth it yet? Should I just wait?
Unfortunately, there are no 4K projectors with HDR for under $1000, and I don't expect to see any in the near future. However, I would wait until CEDIA before buying anything, since there are usually amazing announcements at that show.
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post #46 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Does the ISF have any plans to help establish a standard approach to HDR tone mapping on domestic projection systems?
With production monitors performance exceeding consumer TV performance Tone Mapping is quite controversial at this time - following the PQ curve precisely is not the goal of some superb looking processing this year - with multiple EOTFs come multiple needs for Tone Mapping - I am impressed with the images we are seeing so early in the game - this is an active topic for us now and will be for years to come - when consumer TVs catch up to production monitor performance this will be an easier topic.
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post #47 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Two questions:

1) Any chance for direct laser projectors (instead of laser/phosphor)? That should make it much easier to reach wide gamut without light loss. And it might also increase the overall brightness, I suppose.

2) Any chance for chaining 2 LCOS or DLP chips in a row to increase both on/off and ANSI contrast? Or maybe add one additional lower res LCOS panel into the light path to implement some sort of "local dimming" for front projectors?
1) For those with unlimited funds, there are already direct RGB laser projector on the market, but they cost well into six figures and are very large. I doubt that will trickle down into the realm of consumer projectors any time soon.

2) This is being explored experimentally, but I don't see it entering the home market any time soon.
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post #48 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp View Post
Thanks Joel. The PISCR standard lists business screen rooms as one of the things the 80:1 is supposed to apply to, and the 80:1 was based on watching movie content. As we've talked about, I consider this one of the biggest mistakes I have ever seen in a standard. I know you were not on the original committee, which did not check their assumptions, like they would have done if they had been doing proper science, as they thought they were doing. They pointed lights at the screen, which ruined the system on/off CR and the low level detail with it, then blamed system ANSI CR, when system ANSI CR had little to do with the problems they saw with their eyes with the movie content they chose for that category.

Will the 80:1 claim for when details are too hard to make out to follow the story in a movie continue to be part of the updated PISCR standard?

Thanks,
Darin
I'm on the committee, but I can't comment other than to say it is being revised, and your comments were not ignored.
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post #49 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Thanks.

I know one year Barco at Cedia was quoting that 80 to 1 in room contrast was all that was needed for a home theater. There was considerable discussion here on this topic. What do you consider the minimum ANSI and on/off cr ratios for a good home theater experience?
I have the utmost respect for the DCI standard, and we aspire to comply with its minimum standard for home-theater design.
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post #50 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymac232 View Post
Currently using a Epson 8350 on a shelf right above our couch. Looks good for Bluray but when we have guest for football games and add a little more lightning I'd rather watch my 64" Plasma. If I were to upgrade what type of versatile light cannon could perform better in light and dark room settings?
I'd rather you consider an ambient light-rejecting screen instead of a light cannon. A light cannon will help the whites but not the blacks.
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post #51 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:11 PM
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One additional question (sorry):

I'm annoyed by constantly having to upgrade all my devices because there's yet another new HDMI version. Once we have HDMI 2.1 with ultra high bandwidth, are there any plans to make HDMI more capable of "software updates", so we don't have to re-buy all devices all the time? I understand that CE companies might like the way HDMI currently works, but we consumers sure don't.

Thanks!
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post #52 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
One additional question (sorry):

I'm annoyed by constantly having to upgrade all my devices because there's yet another new HDMI version. Once we have HDMI 2.1 with ultra high bandwidth, are there any plans to make HDMI more capable of "software updates", so we don't have to re-buy all devices all the time? I understand that CE companies might like the way HDMI currently works, but we consumers sure don't.

Thanks!
The HDMI Forum is always looking at the future, and it provides guidance to chipset and TV manufacturers for what we can expect in the future. But when you're talking about much faster speeds, that requires faster hardware. It makes no sense to build hardware that can handle 120 fps 8K when we won't see such signals for many years, and the cost would be prohibitive.
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post #53 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
Why is it that greens are so poorly represented in the WCG spec? Reds and blues are improved, why do greens lag so far behind?
If you look at the 2020 spec for green compared to the DCI/P3 spec you will see it also does not go all the way to the limit of our vision - however the work of the ITU is just superb on this - if you search for "Pointer's Gamut" you will find that the color scientists based the color points on surface colors that a camera will see - as opposed to wavelengths that our eyes can see - I was also skeptical until I understood what logic was behind the work.
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post #54 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by richmond5 View Post
When the front projector is properly calibrated with one source, is it necessary to re-adjust with another source. For example, my JVC is calibrated with Oppo 105. If in the future, I switched my source to Oppo U-203, do I have to re-adjust my JVC? Thanks!
The Oppo players have superb video adjustments in their menus - if your projector is properly calibrated when you change players you can compensate for any differences in the players with the internal adjustments.
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post #55 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:28 PM
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I do you think 1080p projection would benefit from HdR
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Is Dolby Vision an option anyone is discussing for home theater projectors? We would benefit greatly due to our current nit limitations (compared to TVs).
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post #57 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:32 PM
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I do you think 1080p projection would benefit from HdR
Absolutely, we consider HDR more important than resolution.
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post #58 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:32 PM
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Hi, probably a stupid question--but you're the expert and I'm not--so here we go. I've got a dedicated room with a 10-year old Mitsubishi 1080p projector in need of lamp #3. There's nowhere near my to go view a 4K unit, and I'm not unhappy with the 1080p. Would an 'entry-level' 4K unit be THAT much improvement? (obviously new 4K player, etc).
thanks,
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post #59 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 12:36 PM
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Wow, the time has flown by! We have a winner of the Sony UBP-X1000ES UHD Blu-ray player: tonyjspr9. Congratulations!

I'd like to thank everyone who posted a question; there were many superb ones, some of which we didn't get to answer. AVS Forum Editor Scott Wilkinson will post answers to some of the questions we didn't get to over the next couple of days, so stay tuned for those. I've worked with Scott for decades, and I'm completely confident in his ability to provide knowledgeable answers.

Also, thanks to our friends at Sony for supporting this AMA. It's been fun!
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post #60 of 124 Old 08-23-2017, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelSilver View Post
1) For those with unlimited funds, there are already direct RGB laser projector on the market, but they cost well into six figures and are very large. I doubt that will trickle down into the realm of consumer projectors any time soon.

2) This is being explored experimentally, but I don't see it entering the home market any time soon.
What opinions (if any) do you have on the more affordable direct-laser projectors like the Sony MPCL1a and Celluon PicoBit?

They are much more affordable around $350-$400, but currently suffer their own caveats mostly stemming from their highly portable small size (similar to a chubby cellphone).

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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