ACER VL7860 Laser DLP 4K UHD Projector - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 01:56 AM
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Agree regardign the RGBRGB-info. Only the French review states this and have not seen et mentioned anywhere else or gotten any confirmation from Acer.

Last week I was told that my Acer would be shipped January... This Friday I was told that it arrives tomorrow! Christmas comes early Now I am behind on my theater-build.
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post #62 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 06:03 AM
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The information I give is simply the technical details ... if I'm wrong I apologize and I will blame the technicians of the brand ... because they are their own words ...
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post #63 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
That's not correct. The Acer has a RGBRGB color wheel, the Optoma a RGBY color wheel. If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't spread misinformation, thanks.
I'm not sure he's wrong actually.

The info on acer using rgbrgb is an outlier for laser and not sure if right since these all based on similar design. Unless Kraine popped the hood and examined the color wheel himself I wouldnt trust rgbrgb spec.
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post #64 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 07:36 AM
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People like to talk without knowing just because they read it on a forum .... I pushed I do not confirm or invalidate anything, I just phoned the technicians of the brands .... who me we explained that the two models were identical, only the software changes in (the VL7860 sort of the same factory as the optoma) I do not speak without knowing I still confirmed that. Then I was told that laser technology did not work in the same way as lamp projectors. The laser is filtered by 2* 4-segment wheels for both devices.
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post #65 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 08:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HenzoMu View Post
The information I give is simply the technical details ... if I'm wrong I apologize and I will blame the technicians of the brand ... because they are their own words ...

To be honest, who knows what the truth is anymore. Acer says RGBRGB and Optoma says that's not true, that they're both the same. Of course, since Optoma charges quite a bit more for their unit, it surely is not in their interest to have people consider the Acer superior and at a lower price to boot.

What bothers me is the lack of professional review on the UHZ65, even though it's been available at retail since the first week of October. Some websites have had a unit for review back in the beginning of October (highdefdigest being one of them), yet they are not publishing their reviews. That is really strange to me, makes me suspect a review embargo from Optoma for some reason.
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post #66 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 08:17 AM
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Acer don't say me RGBRGB too :x
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post #67 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 08:28 AM
 
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Also, one more thing regarding color wheels : I guess Acer is also lying on color gamut capability of their unit too ? They state 110% of Rec709, Optoma states 100% of Rec709.

That seems pretty consistent with the difference between RGBRGB and RGBY...
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post #68 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 08:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HenzoMu View Post
Acer don't say me RGBRGB too :x
In that case, somebody is lying about their color gamut capability : is it Optoma who announces 100% of Rec709 or Acer, who announces 110% of Rec709 ?
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post #69 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 08:45 AM
 
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One more thing regarding the same subject : AFAIK, there are 2 color wheels in DLP laser projectors. One is the phosphor wheel, the other the typical chromatic wheel. While the phosphor wheels should always be the same, the chromatic wheels on the other hand can differ just like on a regular lamp based DLP.

Based on that information I was given by a technician, it seems perfectly possible that the chromatic wheels could be different between both models, which would explain the difference in percentage of color gamut achievable by both units.
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post #70 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
Also, one more thing regarding color wheels : I guess Acer is also lying on color gamut capability of their unit too ? They state 110% of Rec709, Optoma states 100% of Rec709.

That seems pretty consistent with the difference between RGBRGB and RGBY...
Lo Eurotrance,


according to Kraine test, he get more than 115% of Rec.709 on many image modes :



http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...-dlp-4k-laser/


@+
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post #71 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 10:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
Also, one more thing regarding color wheels : I guess Acer is also lying on color gamut capability of their unit too ? They state 110% of Rec709, Optoma states 100% of Rec709.



That seems pretty consistent with the difference between RGBRGB and RGBY...
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
In that case, somebody is lying about their color gamut capability : is it Optoma who announces 100% of Rec709 or Acer, who announces 110% of Rec709 ?
I just personally Calibrated a UHZ65 in my theater and I can verify it is more than 100% rec709. 110% sounds right and is correct according to my measurements. It's 82-84% of DCI-P3 per my measurements and also the Optoma Product Manager I spoke with for about an hour. He also confirmed it's an RGBY color wheel.

I think they're saying "100% rec709" because it DOES do that for Rec709 sources, and then some. For bt2020/P3 it hits about 83% and looks great!

One tip, Brilliant Color MUST be on a setting of about 8-10 in D65 mode to even be close to accurate. Confirmed by said product manager as well and personal measurements.
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post #72 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I just personally Calibrated a UHZ65 in my theater and I can verify it is more than 100% rec709. 110% sounds right and is correct according to my measurements. It's 82-84% of DCI-P3 per my measurements and also the Optoma Product Manager I spoke with for about an hour. He also confirmed it's an RGBY color wheel.

I think they're saying "100% rec709" because it DOES do that for Rec709 sources, and then some. For bt2020/P3 it hits about 83% and looks great!

One tip, Brilliant Color MUST be on a setting of about 8-10 in D65 mode to even be close to accurate. Confirmed by said product manager as well and personal measurements.
Sounds good. Maybe soon we'll finally get a full professional review. The Acer is not yet available anywhere but there's already a good 5 reviews for it online, and the Optoma that has been available for 6 weeks has no review anywhere. Go figure...
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post #73 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
Sounds good. Maybe soon we'll finally get a full professional review. The Acer is not yet available anywhere but there's already a good 5 reviews for it online, and the Optoma that has been available for 6 weeks has no review anywhere. Go figure...
I don't know if you saw this with a comparison to the Sony 365: https://www.tvspecialists.com/optoma...y-vpl-vw365es/
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post #74 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 02:07 PM
 
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I don't know if you saw this with a comparison to the Sony 365: https://www.tvspecialists.com/optoma...y-vpl-vw365es/

I did but it doesn't really qualify as a full review IMO. I'm not sure what the hold up is, hopefully it's not an embargo from Optoma to avoid comparisons with the Acer VL7860 that might make it very hard for them to justify their higher price (a 1000 euros more for the Optoma in Europe).
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post #75 of 301 Old 11-20-2017, 07:59 PM
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That will arrange that it is the Acer who wins this duel XD cheaper than the optoma .... but I think we will have to wait to know the truth.

The negotiated optoma comes almost at the price of Acer on my side.

Maybe this is as commercial as everything comes out of the same place they do not want to compete.
I do not trust the test before release ... already I do not understand why certain tester have it and others not, for me was the friend or worse models boosted for oriented tests (unless profesional) . I do not imagine a brand sent a model not released to a person if they are not sure that the test will be positive, it will be commercial suicide.
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post #76 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HenzoMu View Post
That will arrange that it is the Acer who wins this duel XD cheaper than the optoma .... but I think we will have to wait to know the truth.



The negotiated optoma comes almost at the price of Acer on my side.



Maybe this is as commercial as everything comes out of the same place they do not want to compete.

I do not trust the test before release ... already I do not understand why certain tester have it and others not, for me was the friend or worse models boosted for oriented tests (unless profesional) . I do not imagine a brand sent a model not released to a person if they are not sure that the test will be positive, it will be commercial suicide.


Here’s what often happens in many industries. Manufacturer “X” sends pre production unit to Reporter “Y” under the condition that they must approve any publishing of a review. Reporter “Y” wants to be the first to publish a review, Manufacturer “X” knows this and hopes the reporter will paint their product in a favorable light. And if they don’t then they can legally gag the reporter until the unit ships and possibly after. It’s pretty common almost all reporters do this. Just not many are willing to piss of a manufacturer when it means they will be the last to review their products.


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post #77 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 11:22 AM
 
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Here’s what often happens in many industries. Manufacturer “X” sends pre production unit to Reporter “Y” under the condition that they must approve any publishing of a review. Reporter “Y” wants to be the first to publish a review, Manufacturer “X” knows this and hopes the reporter will paint their product in a favorable light. And if they don’t then they can legally gag the reporter until the unit ships and possibly after. It’s pretty common almost all reporters do this. Just not many are willing to piss of a manufacturer when it means they will be the last to review their products.


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Which is exactly why I'm more and more convinced Optoma is applying an embargo on those reviews. I know highdefdigest had a unit for review more than a month ago, and projectorcentral is supposed to publish a review this month. If they don't publish theirs either, then we can be 99% certain that Optoma is trying to avoid direct comparisons with the Acer unit.

It just comes down to what I've been saying all along : I have no idea how can Optoma justify charging a 1000 more euros than Acer. I'm sure they don't want people to come to the same conclusion right away and would probably prefer that they do after the holiday sales are over.
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post #78 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
Which is exactly why I'm more and more convinced Optoma is applying an embargo on those reviews. I know highdefdigest had a unit for review more than a month ago, and projectorcentral is supposed to publish a review this month. If they don't publish theirs either, then we can be 99% certain that Optoma is trying to avoid direct comparisons with the Acer unit.



It just comes down to what I've been saying all along : I have no idea how can Optoma justify charging a 1000 more euros than Acer. I'm sure they don't want people to come to the same conclusion right away and would probably prefer that they do after the holiday sales are over.


I think so too. I think they added a yellow segment to boost brightness, for fear people wouldn’t pay extra for a laser light source if it wasn’t substantially brighter than the lamp version. I think Acer was going for a wider color gamut and counting on reviewers to convey the advantages of going laser based on its better color performance. But I am only speculating.


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post #79 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 02:30 PM
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I think so too. I think they added a yellow segment to boost brightness, for fear people wouldn’t pay extra for a laser light source if it wasn’t substantially brighter than the lamp version. I think Acer was going for a wider color gamut and counting on reviewers to convey the advantages of going laser based on its better color performance. But I am only speculating.


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I personally prefer the wider gamut or better colors to brightbess but thats just an assumption !

And live in eu and is interested in the acer to replace my hw40 in my darkish living room.

Who knows if more brightness wouldnt be more favorably?

There is this discource that dark is better than brightness. And it have been there for years. Its a invisible army of darkness

When i got my hw40 to replace my cheaper mitsubishi hc4000 dlp dc3 the benefit was actually more light and that super motion handling and more shadow details than just the pure black and contrast. Black and contrast was actually pretty okey on the hc4000. Sharpness was a small step back so imo dlp have some good benefits too like sharpness and pop.

Brightness is way underrated. Go to the movie a highend place. This slam of the picture. This beeing there effect not niceness i think is due to light and pop. Yes its a rough picture vs a jvc but it gives an experience and raises bloodpressure. And thats what it is about.
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post #80 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 02:41 PM
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The Acer arrived sooner than planned! Tried it out on a white wall (theater is still under construction) and it has real potential.

Quick observations:

Good
  • Blacks are better than feared! Had the Acer V9800 home and sent it back because of the bad contrast and useless iris. The VL7860 is a big improvement. Not JVC but good enough for me
  • Lots of lumens
  • Saturated colors (no measurements but visual impression)
  • Extremely sharp

Bad
  • No adjustment of laser intensity (Optoma equivalent is supposed to do that)
  • Only "on/off" for Dynamic black and no steps
  • Rainbows are easier to see compared to Acer V9800 which had RGBRGB wheel. I can live with it, but it's easily seen if I try to

I'm having a hard time believing that there is an RGBRGB wheel in this projector. Usually I have to really make an effort to see them, but it's easier on the VL7860.
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post #81 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
The Acer arrived sooner than planned! Tried it out on a white wall (theater is still under construction) and it has real potential.

Quick observations:

Good
  • Blacks are better than feared! Had the Acer V9800 home and sent it back because of the bad contrast and useless iris. The VL7860 is a big improvement. Not JVC but good enough for me
  • Lots of lumens
  • Saturated colors (no measurements but visual impression)
  • Extremely sharp

Bad
  • No adjustment of laser intensity (Optoma equivalent is supposed to do that)
  • Only "on/off" for Dynamic black and no steps
  • Rainbows are easier to see compared to Acer V9800 which had RGBRGB wheel. I can live with it, but it's easily seen if I try to

I'm having a hard time believing that there is an RGBRGB wheel in this projector. Usually I have to really make an effort to see them, but it's easier on the VL7860.
There is a setting for laser dimming according to reviews online, just like on the Optoma.
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post #82 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 03:19 PM
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There is a setting for laser dimming according to reviews online, just like on the Optoma.
Can you show me the link? I see "Eco mode on/off" and not 50%, 60%, 70% etc.

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post #83 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 05:08 PM
 
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Can you show me the link? I see "Eco mode on/off" and not 50%, 60%, 70% etc.
There's a dynamic black setting on page 19 of the French manual. I believe that is the same real time laser dimming adjustment as used in the Optoma.

I'll check the manual for the Optoma but I'm pretty sure it's the same options as for the Acer. I don't recall that you can pick 50%, 60%, etc.

Last edited by eurotrance; 11-21-2017 at 05:18 PM.
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post #84 of 301 Old 11-21-2017, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
There's a dynamic black setting on page 19 of the French manual. I believe that is the same real time laser dimming adjustment as used in the Optoma.

I'll check the manual for the Optoma but I'm pretty sure it's the same options as for the Acer. I don't recall that you can pick 50%, 60%, etc.
See attachment from Optoma manual. This is not possible on Acer (unless I'm looking the wrong places)
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post #85 of 301 Old 11-22-2017, 12:30 AM
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See attachment from Optoma manual. This is not possible on Acer (unless I'm looking the wrong places)
Could someone confirm the power settings are not there? Potential deal killer for smaller screen users for the Acer.

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post #86 of 301 Old 11-22-2017, 12:49 AM
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@JonasHansen

I have several questions ,
Due optic looks worse than v9800 you see differences showing 4k content or standard

I see in your screenshot picture and in taiwan report too a blue colors out of control in your picture on left side and behind face of grandma, is the camera or you see this too.
That is a laser projector but you see enough difference to spend x2 money over one entry level 4k like m550 to began deal with 4k


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post #87 of 301 Old 11-22-2017, 02:00 AM
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@JonasHansen

I have several questions ,
Due optic looks worse than v9800 you see differences showing 4k content or standard

I see in your screenshot picture and in taiwan report too a blue colors out of control in your picture on left side and behind face of grandma, is the camera or you see this too.
That is a laser projector but you see enough difference to spend x2 money over one entry level 4k like m550 to began deal with 4k


Saludos
I don't have enough experience to comment on sharpness compared to V9800.

The image taken is with Brilliant Color and AcuColor enabled which makes the colors much more intense via processing. That is one of the reasons for the blue. I will give an update when I have it setup in the theater and calibrated correctly.

It's subjective whether or not it's worth twice the price - for me it is. Contrast improvement, never replacing lamps and greater color gamut.
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post #88 of 301 Old 11-22-2017, 03:10 AM
 
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See attachment from Optoma manual. This is not possible on Acer (unless I'm looking the wrong places)
I stand corrected, I didn't remember this. That definitely is a plus for the Optoma unit and would be nice to have on the Acer.

My biggest issue with all those new "4K" DLP units is to have to send them back to update the firmware. That is absolutely ridiculous and definitely makes me reconsider spending that kind of money on a projector, no matter how good they are.
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post #89 of 301 Old 11-22-2017, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post
I stand corrected, I didn't remember this. That definitely is a plus for the Optoma unit and would be nice to have on the Acer.

My biggest issue with all those new "4K" DLP units is to have to send them back to update the firmware. That is absolutely ridiculous and definitely makes me reconsider spending that kind of money on a projector, no matter how good they are.
Yes, that it annoying but again - how often is that? The quality with current firmware is good so possible firmware upgrades will never be "must have now" and can be timed with weeks with high workloads or vacation periods where we are not home.

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post #90 of 301 Old 12-01-2017, 11:35 PM
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Link to the manual VL7860
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