Originally Posted by Sam Ash
Any further information on the DK8500Z-BK ? It seems to have impressive specifications but the impression I get is that it is built more for business presentations and high-end board rooms. Having said that, I've noticed that the new breed of laser light source projectors that claim 5,000 lumens and above are being targeted to both home and commercial users (e.g. Optoma UHZ65). Any idea if the DK8500Z has a colour wheel with filters that are optimised for image fidelity rather than brightness, I'm not fond of colour wheels with clear transparent sections. Filters designed for pristine images often sacrifice a bit of brightness but with 7,500 lumens on the DK8500Z, that should not be a problem and the projector could probably come close to full DCI-P3. Furthermore, I'm not sure if the DK8500Z has image processing abilities such as 6-axis CMS, sharpening algorithms, frame interpolation and Dynamic Contrast via laser dimming techniques. These features, as you mentioned, are available in the UHZ65 and the LK970.
I'm very interested to know more about the DK8500Z-BK and whether it is suited for a fully light controlled dedicated environment. I'm considering a non-unity gain screen (0.8 to 0.85) which should curb the extra brightness without compromising WCG. I like the fact that the projector has direct support for HDR and I presume it is HDR10 (or may be HDR10+). One feature that I would appreciate is the projector's ability to detect the incoming source signal (Rec.709, HDR10, Bt.2020) and automatically pick an associated predefined profile (Luminance, CMS, image processing values). Hence, the tone mapping should be a transparent and painless predefined process. Such settings can currently be effected by control equipment that sits in-between the source and projector but why pay more for a simple feature that can be easily internalised. Does the UHZ65 and LK970 have this feature ? Last but not least, I agree with you, better optics definitely plays a big role and can make a significant difference. Now that you've tested both the UHZ65 and LK970, it would definitely be nice to get your views of the DK8500Z's performance.
On a different note, what personal calibration system would you recommend that is effective and not too expensive. I've been looking at CalMan, ChromaPure and LightSpace, I like the interface of ChromaPure and Tom provides excellent customer support. CalMan is pretty popular with guys like you including reviewers, LightSpace tends to be a bit more specialistic in terms of being used in video production environments. The problem is hardware cost, good probes cost as much if not more than the projectors that we've mentioned in this post. The i1DisplayPro2 (OEM Rev.B versions offered by SpecraCal and ChromaPure) seems to be a very good Colourimeter which is very capable up to 1,000 nits but it's accuracy is questioned by some including Ron in the UHZ65 thread. I have 4 questions:-
- Because Laser light has such narrow band, the i1Pro2 does not have the spectral resolution to take accurate readings. This can be compensated for by building correction tables using a high end 5nm or less spectro. Some even go to the extent of creating corrections for each individual laser projector brand. I just need a very good averaged correction for green laser light source based on the current laser projectors. What would you recommend ? and are such meter profiling service available ? - I'm told corrections tables last about 1 year until a fresh meter calibration is recommended. I actually own an X-Rite DTP-94 which had a good reputation back in the day.
- I'd like to use the probe for other devices too: Lamp based projectors for Rec.709 and my PC LCD monitor which covers 100% of sRGB.
- What software amongst the ones I've mentioned do you recommend ?
- What are the best test patterns to use for SDR and HDR ? (Assuming manual calibration).
I don't know a lot about the DK8500Z yet other than knowing it has dynamic laser dimming, native HDR gamma, .66" XPR DLP and the same dual color wheel design I mention below.
It sounds to me like the performance will be very similar to the LK970 but with native HDR and more lumens with maybe a better dynamic laser dimming system.
Yes I would like to get one to mess with as well, but I would have to have someone be able to send me one or come up with the initial funds to do it myself.
I use CalMAN Pro and my meters lately have always been through my work so they're sent off regularly to SpectraCal, etc. for recalibration and certification. I haven't done tons of research on the ins and outs of laser phosphor compared to lamp based lighting techniques for these meters but I have been assured that they work and read it properly for laser phosphor projectors. I think the narrower bandwidth issue with lasers is more talking about the native laser light and not the derived white light from and after it hits the phosphor wheel, which creates diffuse light very similar to regular lamps.
I use the Murideo Six-G pattern generator as well as the Ryan Masciola UHD test patterns and sometimes the AVS709 patterns.
Originally Posted by Aztar35
If your display can't do HDR, it has an HDR to SDR conversion but that defeats the wider BT2020 color and causes a mismatch when the display is set to BT2020 so that you see over-saturated color. If you convert, you get only BT709.
You can use an HDFury Vertex or Linker to fool the UB900 into sending tone mapped SDR with BT2020.
Originally Posted by Sam Ash
Dave, do you have any experience with Panasonic 4K BD players? - particularly the UB900 ?
I'm told they are excellent.
Yes I had one here for a long time and it was my first UHD Blu-ray player. The only reason I sold it is because I wanted the SDR to HDR tone mapping capability so I could use it on projectors that didn't have native HDR so I had something to compare to my Harpervision settings that do something similar. Overall when you take the tone mapping ability and the HDMI input away, I liked the Panasonic better actually.
Originally Posted by Aztar35
Hi, Dave. Your testing is so much appreciated. I was looking at the specs and the optics on this projector appear to be amazing. The areas I would want to know about are the typical "Big Three" of many single chip DLP projector designs or what I should call "BRO": B
lack Levels, R
ainbows, and O
perational noise. The question is how good or bad?
BLACK LEVEL/CONTRAST: For example, S&V found the best contrast it could achieve with the Benq HT9050 was 4,000:1, not too bad. Is the LK970 about the same, better, worse?
RAINBOWS: Two color wheels, one with a yellow segment...what is the rotational speed? You've seen both the UHZ65 and this machine...rainbows about the same, better for the LK970, or worse?
OPERATIONAL NOISE: Projector Central rates the operational noise for the LK970, in Eco Mode, to at 34 decibels. Is that your experience with it? Or did it appear to be quieter than that in Eco Mode?
Thanks in advance.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I should hopefully know more after this weekend or very soon after. I think the rainbows are a little better on this machine than the UHZ65 and the fan seems to change speeds and thus noise levels dynamically based on the temperature but yes I would say in eco-mode it is definitely much quieter.
From how I understand it, there isn't a yellow segment on the wheel. It is yellow light derived from a segment on the phosphor wheel and a small clear section for the native blue laser light to go through and then when it hits the second color wheel, which has a red and green segment and two clear ones. I believe one clear section is to allow the native blue laser light to go through to give you wide, deep blues and the other clear section is for the yellow light created from the phosphor wheel to go through to give you the higher saturated yellows that I see. I think too many people are trying to think of these laser DLPs with dual wheels the same as how the lamp based DLPs act with a single, standard color wheel, but they seem to be different beasts altogether. This is actually what was mentioned to me by the Optoma product manager but I didn't really get what he was saying at the time until I did much more research after-the-fact and now I think I know what he means.
Black levels are as I have mentioned a few times before. Not JVC, Sony, Epson native blacks, but more than acceptable and not leaving me feeling like I'm wanting more when compared to all the other positives this machine gives me. Much of it is perceived deep blacks I am sure, but that doesn't matter to me as long as that's what my brain believes is there, just as it used to back in the day for 1080 interlaced HD on my high end CRT projectors, and what DLPs do with sequential color, as long as rainbows aren't too offensive (which they don't seem to be here, but I'm sure can be improved upon in subsequent iterations).
Originally Posted by Sam Ash
Any further news in regards to the LK970 ? Any reviews out there yet ?
Hopefully after this weekend.