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post #31 of 2232 Old 03-19-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I'm very excited about the Optoma HLD LED which supposedly will have the brightness of the UHZ65 but with less RBE and full dcip3. Would love to see BenQ release something like this also (like a revamped ht9050) , pretty sure the lk970 is still a 2x design.
@Ruined , have you heard any more info on the upcoming 4K LED from
Optoma. Last time, Optoma rep @Tuan said he's not sure when it'll be released. I'm also waiting for the same.
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post #32 of 2232 Old 03-19-2018, 04:43 PM
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@Ruined , have you heard any more info on the upcoming 4K LED from
Optoma. Last time, Optoma rep @Tuan said he's not sure when it'll be released. I'm also waiting for the same.
Word is fall per twice magazine
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post #33 of 2232 Old 03-19-2018, 08:07 PM
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Word is fall per twice magazine
Aaah! But the $64,000 question is will it have a lens as good as the Vivitek H9090's?
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post #34 of 2232 Old 03-19-2018, 10:21 PM
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Aaah! But the $64,000 question is will it have a lens as good as the Vivitek H9090's?
It is apparently based on the Optoma 4k500 chassis, so probably will be good lens, optoma higher end build... Which also means it won't be cheap.

Uniformity on 4k500 is rated 10 higher percentage points than UHZ65 for instance.
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Last edited by Ruined; 03-19-2018 at 10:25 PM.
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post #35 of 2232 Old 03-20-2018, 10:41 AM
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Good thing about Optoma is once they announce a projector, it's released within a month or so. Vivitek announces today and then takes a year to release. BenQ is same way but not as bad as Vivitek.
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post #36 of 2232 Old 03-20-2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I got a BenQ LK970 5,000 lumen laser XPR DLP here the other day and after a couple days fiddling with it using an Oppo 203 with its HDR to SDR tone mapping, all I can say is that it is the best I have ever seen Ghostbusters 2016 and especially Planet Earth II look, non-optimal native contrast notwithstanding! Simply phenomenal!!! I have now come to realize that high resolution, wide color gamut and lumens, lumens, lumens are what makes HDR truly sing!!! Of course great contrast too would be icing on the cake, but that's tough to do with DLP light cannons. I have a Sony VW885ES coming soon so it'll be interesting to compare them. I can't imagine the Sony being $18K better, but I'm sure even with the talk about it's not so great contrast, it still will beat the LK970 natively on/off. I gotta tell you though, even in the night scenes in GB at the end, I didn't feel lacking in the blacks and shadow detail dept at all!
Wow, how does it look at night? Is it "too bright"? My room is challenging with a 14' glass door
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I'm going from UST Dell which is 5,000 lumens or a regular hanging projector, which I didn't know they made this bright!

This could be the ticket, it would save me from replacing my current 120" black diamond screen and buying a short throw one.
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post #37 of 2232 Old 03-22-2018, 02:05 AM
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I'm very excited about the Optoma HLD LED which supposedly will have the brightness of the UHZ65 but with less RBE and full dcip3. Would love to see BenQ release something like this also (like a revamped ht9050) , pretty sure the lk970 is still a 2x design.

Yes I'm curious about that one. I do see the occasional rainbow on the LK970, and not just when I'm watching Wizard of Oz!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
That's not very bright when calibrated.



I'm curious as to what the calibrated brightness is of the BenQ LK970. Dave, have you done any measurements?

I'm still messing around with all the combinations of modes and settings to get the best balance of specular highlights, decent blacks and trying to get the widest color gamut possible. Once I have some hard numbers I'll post them.

I will tell you this though. My goal isn't some hard number I'm shooting for. I'm setting it at it's peak where it doesn't clip peak white highlights for max HDR effect, then going from there. I'm not brightness matching anything, that's for sure. I want it to emulate the look of a flat panel as much as possible with HDR and I can tell you I'm coming close, brightness wise anyway. Of course it's not close to OLED blacks or anything, but man as soon as any light is on the screen those blacks look so damned inky actually. Having this brightness for HDR really seems to be the tipping point for compromising some on the native contrast, if you have to.

I think I found reference to this having some sort of dynamic laser dimming, but BenQ still hasn't responded to any of my requests for info. Not a very great company for customer service it seems. Unlike Vivitek/Delta who's lead engineer personally called me back and I had nearly an hour conversation about the DK8500Z-BK, as well as some other "interesting" lens talk amongst other things, that has me wondering if I was on the right path a few months ago. I really want to get my hands on one of those as well, especially since it has native HDR support and known dynamic laser dimming


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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
We haven't heard back from him in a while.



He must be lost in some of his real "techy" testing.

Haha, not really. Lost in life really. This new job has me super busy and now my wife has had some medical challenges of her own, so not as much playtime unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
Wow, how does it look at night? Is it "too bright"? My room is challenging with a 14' glass door.



I'm going from UST Dell which is 5,000 lumens or a regular hanging projector, which I didn't know they made this bright!



This could be the ticket, it would save me from replacing my current 120" black diamond screen and buying a short throw one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
How are you feeling about this setup after living with it a few days? How would you rank it against other more common Home theater projectors once dialed in?

I would say it's definitely a light cannon, but the image is so smooth and pleasing too. I really like the brightness, especially for HDR. The blacks and low level detail of course can and should be better, but given all the other positive attributes I find it a worthy tradeoff to be honest. It displays images so effortlessly it seems, especially HDR. It's like you don't even have to tone map in some ways. When I used the Oppo tone mapping all it did was hamper it and seem like I artificially crippled what it can do. There was always a compromise with clipping the peak whites or just making it look flat and dull. I admit it's a work in progress though for using the tone mapping. More testing could prove it amazing, but so far sending true HDR to it and then using some HarperVision magic has provided the best results. Like I said HDR seems so effortless this way. Coco literally had me in awe.

Some bright scenes, especially SDR seemed pretty bright and eye hurting. I use the Economy power setting for that and you can dim the laser power way down too.
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Last edited by Dave Harper; 03-22-2018 at 02:08 AM.
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post #38 of 2232 Old 03-25-2018, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think I found reference to this having some sort of dynamic laser dimming, but BenQ still hasn't responded to any of my requests for info. Not a very great company for customer service it seems. Unlike Vivitek/Delta who's lead engineer personally called me back and I had nearly an hour conversation about the DK8500Z-BK, as well as some other "interesting" lens talk amongst other things, that has me wondering if I was on the right path a few months ago. I really want to get my hands on one of those as well, especially since it has native HDR support and known dynamic laser dimming
AND 7500 lumens

Once RGB laser is available, the need for three chip DLP on the enthusiast front kind of goes away IMO. I mean, you are already hitting near flatpanel brightness with this 5000 lumens unit, imagine it on a 7500 lumen unit. Now imagine having RGB laser with no color wheel, no rainbow artifacts, and full BT2020! This should give the brightness of powerful old lamp three-chippers like the Lumis along with the sharpness of single chip and less RBE. Best of all worlds.

I am still wondering if the upcoming Optoma HLD LED 3000 lumen unit is a single rod or dual rod colorspark. The (poorly implemented) BenQ HT9050 was rated at 2200 lumen and only single rod - most single rod trade show demos have been quoted as 2000-2200 lumens. Apparently dual rod colorspark is up to 5000 lumens, but that is at rec709 I believe - it needs filtering for 100% dci-p3 and this brings the lumens down. So it is possible the Optoma might be a single rod with juiced up specs, or also possible its a dual rod and the loss of brightness is from the 100% DCI-P3 coverage. I hope it is the latter, as if dual rod should punch way above the BenQ in brightness.

Last edited by Ruined; 03-26-2018 at 12:01 AM.
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post #39 of 2232 Old 03-30-2018, 10:54 AM
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We haven't heard from Dave in a while on this. I wonder if he received the VW885ES to compare yet. I wonder how wide the color can go. The best color I've seen from a DLP so far was on the Vivitek HK2299.
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Okay seem like i mite be interested in this PJ after looking at Sony & JVC for months . It has everything i want in a projector laser light source & all the pixel count. How would this work in a bat cave setup ? Also how is the contrast compared to Sony 4K projectors ?

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post #41 of 2232 Old 04-01-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Okay seem like i mite be interested in this PJ after looking at Sony & JVC for months . It has everything i want in a projector laser light source & all the pixel count. How would this work in a bat cave setup ? Also how is the contrast compared to Sony 4K projectors ?
Have you looked at the laser 4k uhd Optoma UHZ65 ($4499)? Its very similar to this BenQ in a lot of ways other than brightness and placement flexibility, but might have a better dynamic contrast system for a dark room. I'm not sure what Dave concluded but I was under the impression this particular BenQ was designed for rooms with ambient light.

If you are going to spend over $5k and can wait 6 months you might want to wait for the Optoma HLD LED 4k uhd projector coming this fall - will have a wider color gamut than this BenQ and less RBE, better for a dark room.

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post #42 of 2232 Old 04-02-2018, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Have you looked at the laser 4k uhd Optoma UHZ65 ($4499)? Its very similar to this BenQ in a lot of ways other than brightness and placement flexibility, but might have a better dynamic contrast system for a dark room. I'm not sure what Dave concluded but I was under the impression this particular BenQ was designed for rooms with ambient light.

If you are going to spend over $5k and can wait 6 months you might want to wait for the Optoma HLD LED 4k uhd projector coming this fall - will have a wider color gamut than this BenQ and less RBE, better for a dark room.

I would not say the UHZ65 is similar to this other than they use the same DLP chip. This projector is so much better built and the lens is crazy good compared to the UHZ65. The pure blacks with the dynamic dimming on the UHZ65 is overall better but when I activate it I always seem to see the levels pumping and it started to bother me. I don't see that on this projector at all and the blacks look more than respectable. In the low level APL scenes you may see an extremely slight haze sometimes but it is definitely not what you see from regular lamp based DLPs and the old DC3 chip implementations. There has got to be some sort of laser dimming system on this because of what I saw the white clipping patterns do from the Masciola disc. This is not what I expected at all on here. It almost seems like an AGC circuit with the laser. The blacks are almost always more than acceptable and when they're not they are far from what I would call bad like I have seen with many other DLPs.

I agree that the new LED DLP seems very curious.


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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
We haven't heard from Dave in a while on this. I wonder if he received the VW885ES to compare yet. I wonder how wide the color can go. The best color I've seen from a DLP so far was on the Vivitek HK2299.

I still haven't received my 885 yet so I have no comparison. I really have not had any time to mess with this thing in the last week or two due to personal and business things going on. I should get some time this week to do some more measurements. Definitely not Monday night though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexgen76 View Post
Okay seem like i mite be interested in this PJ after looking at Sony & JVC for months . It has everything i want in a projector laser light source & all the pixel count. How would this work in a bat cave setup ? Also how is the contrast compared to Sony 4K projectors ?

Sony 4K projectors will definitely have better on off contrast ratio so if that is what you are really wanting from this I would say this is not what you should get. If you want super bright for HDR, well pseudo HDR, using some of my HarperVision techniques then this is great and it is also amazing for regular TV if you would like to watch that in your theater as well as sports really shines on this thing.

I personally like to watch sports and some TV on this in my theater, almost as much or more than movies I watch so all the positives that I see with that are starting to outweigh the couple of small negatives I may have seen in one or two movies that I have seen so far with one or two scenes in them with certain low level APL scenes.
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post #43 of 2232 Old 04-02-2018, 09:43 AM
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The blacks are almost always more than acceptable and when they're not they are far from what I would call bad like I have seen with many other DLPs.

all the positives that I see with that are starting to outweigh the couple of small negatives I may have seen in one or two movies that I have seen so far with one or two scenes in them with certain low level APL scenes.

Hi, Dave. Your testing is so much appreciated. I was looking at the specs and the optics on this projector appear to be amazing. The areas I would want to know about are the typical "Big Three" of many single chip DLP projector designs or what I should call "BRO": Black Levels, Rainbows, and Operational noise. The question is how good or bad?

BLACK LEVEL/CONTRAST: For example, S&V found the best contrast it could achieve with the Benq HT9050 was 4,000:1, not too bad. Is the LK970 about the same, better, worse?

RAINBOWS: Two color wheels, one with a yellow segment...what is the rotational speed? You've seen both the UHZ65 and this machine...rainbows about the same, better for the LK970, or worse?

OPERATIONAL NOISE: Projector Central rates the operational noise for the LK970, in Eco Mode, to at 34 decibels. Is that your experience with it? Or did it appear to be quieter than that in Eco Mode?

Thanks in advance.
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Question

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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Unlike Vivitek/Delta who's lead engineer personally called me back and I had nearly an hour conversation about the DK8500Z-BK, as well as some other "interesting" lens talk amongst other things, that has me wondering if I was on the right path a few months ago. I really want to get my hands on one of those as well, especially since it has native HDR support and known dynamic laser dimming
Hi Dave,

Any further information on the DK8500Z-BK ? It seems to have impressive specifications but the impression I get is that it is built more for business presentations and high-end board rooms. Having said that, I've noticed that the new breed of laser light source projectors that claim 5,000 lumens and above are being targeted to both home and commercial users (e.g. Optoma UHZ65). Any idea if the DK8500Z has a colour wheel with filters that are optimised for image fidelity rather than brightness, I'm not fond of colour wheels with clear transparent sections. Filters designed for pristine images often sacrifice a bit of brightness but with 7,500 lumens on the DK8500Z, that should not be a problem and the projector could probably come close to full DCI-P3. Furthermore, I'm not sure if the DK8500Z has image processing abilities such as 6-axis CMS, sharpening algorithms, frame interpolation and Dynamic Contrast via laser dimming techniques. These features, as you mentioned, are available in the UHZ65 and the LK970.

I'm very interested to know more about the DK8500Z-BK and whether it is suited for a fully light controlled dedicated environment. I'm considering a non-unity gain screen (0.8 to 0.85) which should curb the extra brightness without compromising WCG. I like the fact that the projector has direct support for HDR and I presume it is HDR10 (or may be HDR10+). One feature that I would appreciate is the projector's ability to detect the incoming source signal (Rec.709, HDR10, Bt.2020) and automatically pick an associated predefined profile (Luminance, CMS, image processing values). Hence, the tone mapping should be a transparent and painless predefined process. Such settings can currently be effected by control equipment that sits in-between the source and projector but why pay more for a simple feature that can be easily internalised. Does the UHZ65 and LK970 have this feature ? Last but not least, I agree with you, better optics definitely plays a big role and can make a significant difference. Now that you've tested both the UHZ65 and LK970, it would definitely be nice to get your views of the DK8500Z's performance.

On a different note, what personal calibration system would you recommend that is effective and not too expensive. I've been looking at CalMan, ChromaPure and LightSpace, I like the interface of ChromaPure and Tom provides excellent customer support. CalMan is pretty popular with guys like you including reviewers, LightSpace tends to be a bit more specialistic in terms of being used in video production environments. The problem is hardware cost, good probes cost as much if not more than the projectors that we've mentioned in this post. The i1DisplayPro2 (OEM Rev.B versions offered by SpecraCal and ChromaPure) seems to be a very good Colourimeter which is very capable up to 1,000 nits but it's accuracy is questioned by some including Ron in the UHZ65 thread. I have 4 questions:-

  1. Because Laser light has such narrow band, the i1Pro2 does not have the spectral resolution to take accurate readings. This can be compensated for by building correction tables using a high end 5nm or less spectro. Some even go to the extent of creating corrections for each individual laser projector brand. I just need a very good averaged correction for green laser light source based on the current laser projectors. What would you recommend ? and are such meter profiling service available ? - I'm told corrections tables last about 1 year until a fresh meter calibration is recommended. I actually own an X-Rite DTP-94 which had a good reputation back in the day.
  2. I'd like to use the probe for other devices too: Lamp based projectors for Rec.709 and my PC LCD monitor which covers 100% of sRGB.
  3. What software amongst the ones I've mentioned do you recommend ?
  4. What are the best test patterns to use for SDR and HDR ? (Assuming manual calibration).

Last edited by Sam Ash; 04-05-2018 at 04:24 AM.
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post #45 of 2232 Old 04-05-2018, 03:42 AM
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Dave, do you have any experience with Panasonic 4K BD players? - particularly the UB900 ?

I'm told they are excellent.
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post #46 of 2232 Old 04-05-2018, 08:35 AM
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Dave, do you have any experience with Panasonic 4K BD players? - particularly the UB900 ?

I'm told they are excellent.
I had the UB900 and it's a UHD great player. Colors looked rich and accurate and it has very nice sharpening tools.

By the way, are you the guy who owns all those guitar stores?
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Any further updates on the LK970 ?
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I had the UB900 and it's a UHD great player. Colors looked rich and accurate and it has very nice sharpening tools.

By the way, are you the guy who owns all those guitar stores?
Thank you for your input, does the player have tone mapping abilities too ?

No, I'm not the owner of the music instruments store, I have the same name.
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Thank you for your input, does the player have tone mapping abilities too ?

No, I'm not the owner of the music instruments store, I have the same name.
If your display can't do HDR, it has an HDR to SDR conversion but that defeats the wider BT2020 color and causes a mismatch when the display is set to BT2020 so that you see over-saturated color. If you convert, you get only BT709.
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If your display can't do HDR, it has an HDR to SDR conversion but that defeats the wider BT2020 color and causes a mismatch when the display is set to BT2020 so that you see over-saturated color. If you convert, you get only BT709.
Thanks for that clarification Aztar.
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Any further news in regards to the LK970 ? Any reviews out there yet ?
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post #52 of 2232 Old 04-07-2018, 03:13 PM
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Hi Dave,



Any further information on the DK8500Z-BK ? It seems to have impressive specifications but the impression I get is that it is built more for business presentations and high-end board rooms. Having said that, I've noticed that the new breed of laser light source projectors that claim 5,000 lumens and above are being targeted to both home and commercial users (e.g. Optoma UHZ65). Any idea if the DK8500Z has a colour wheel with filters that are optimised for image fidelity rather than brightness, I'm not fond of colour wheels with clear transparent sections. Filters designed for pristine images often sacrifice a bit of brightness but with 7,500 lumens on the DK8500Z, that should not be a problem and the projector could probably come close to full DCI-P3. Furthermore, I'm not sure if the DK8500Z has image processing abilities such as 6-axis CMS, sharpening algorithms, frame interpolation and Dynamic Contrast via laser dimming techniques. These features, as you mentioned, are available in the UHZ65 and the LK970.



I'm very interested to know more about the DK8500Z-BK and whether it is suited for a fully light controlled dedicated environment. I'm considering a non-unity gain screen (0.8 to 0.85) which should curb the extra brightness without compromising WCG. I like the fact that the projector has direct support for HDR and I presume it is HDR10 (or may be HDR10+). One feature that I would appreciate is the projector's ability to detect the incoming source signal (Rec.709, HDR10, Bt.2020) and automatically pick an associated predefined profile (Luminance, CMS, image processing values). Hence, the tone mapping should be a transparent and painless predefined process. Such settings can currently be effected by control equipment that sits in-between the source and projector but why pay more for a simple feature that can be easily internalised. Does the UHZ65 and LK970 have this feature ? Last but not least, I agree with you, better optics definitely plays a big role and can make a significant difference. Now that you've tested both the UHZ65 and LK970, it would definitely be nice to get your views of the DK8500Z's performance.



On a different note, what personal calibration system would you recommend that is effective and not too expensive. I've been looking at CalMan, ChromaPure and LightSpace, I like the interface of ChromaPure and Tom provides excellent customer support. CalMan is pretty popular with guys like you including reviewers, LightSpace tends to be a bit more specialistic in terms of being used in video production environments. The problem is hardware cost, good probes cost as much if not more than the projectors that we've mentioned in this post. The i1DisplayPro2 (OEM Rev.B versions offered by SpecraCal and ChromaPure) seems to be a very good Colourimeter which is very capable up to 1,000 nits but it's accuracy is questioned by some including Ron in the UHZ65 thread. I have 4 questions:-




  1. Because Laser light has such narrow band, the i1Pro2 does not have the spectral resolution to take accurate readings. This can be compensated for by building correction tables using a high end 5nm or less spectro. Some even go to the extent of creating corrections for each individual laser projector brand. I just need a very good averaged correction for green laser light source based on the current laser projectors. What would you recommend ? and are such meter profiling service available ? - I'm told corrections tables last about 1 year until a fresh meter calibration is recommended. I actually own an X-Rite DTP-94 which had a good reputation back in the day.


  2. I'd like to use the probe for other devices too: Lamp based projectors for Rec.709 and my PC LCD monitor which covers 100% of sRGB.


  3. What software amongst the ones I've mentioned do you recommend ?


  4. What are the best test patterns to use for SDR and HDR ? (Assuming manual calibration).

I don't know a lot about the DK8500Z yet other than knowing it has dynamic laser dimming, native HDR gamma, .66" XPR DLP and the same dual color wheel design I mention below.

It sounds to me like the performance will be very similar to the LK970 but with native HDR and more lumens with maybe a better dynamic laser dimming system.

Yes I would like to get one to mess with as well, but I would have to have someone be able to send me one or come up with the initial funds to do it myself.

I use CalMAN Pro and my meters lately have always been through my work so they're sent off regularly to SpectraCal, etc. for recalibration and certification. I haven't done tons of research on the ins and outs of laser phosphor compared to lamp based lighting techniques for these meters but I have been assured that they work and read it properly for laser phosphor projectors. I think the narrower bandwidth issue with lasers is more talking about the native laser light and not the derived white light from and after it hits the phosphor wheel, which creates diffuse light very similar to regular lamps.

I use the Murideo Six-G pattern generator as well as the Ryan Masciola UHD test patterns and sometimes the AVS709 patterns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
If your display can't do HDR, it has an HDR to SDR conversion but that defeats the wider BT2020 color and causes a mismatch when the display is set to BT2020 so that you see over-saturated color. If you convert, you get only BT709.

You can use an HDFury Vertex or Linker to fool the UB900 into sending tone mapped SDR with BT2020.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Dave, do you have any experience with Panasonic 4K BD players? - particularly the UB900 ?



I'm told they are excellent.

Yes I had one here for a long time and it was my first UHD Blu-ray player. The only reason I sold it is because I wanted the SDR to HDR tone mapping capability so I could use it on projectors that didn't have native HDR so I had something to compare to my Harpervision settings that do something similar. Overall when you take the tone mapping ability and the HDMI input away, I liked the Panasonic better actually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Hi, Dave. Your testing is so much appreciated. I was looking at the specs and the optics on this projector appear to be amazing. The areas I would want to know about are the typical "Big Three" of many single chip DLP projector designs or what I should call "BRO": Black Levels, Rainbows, and Operational noise. The question is how good or bad?



BLACK LEVEL/CONTRAST: For example, S&V found the best contrast it could achieve with the Benq HT9050 was 4,000:1, not too bad. Is the LK970 about the same, better, worse?



RAINBOWS: Two color wheels, one with a yellow segment...what is the rotational speed? You've seen both the UHZ65 and this machine...rainbows about the same, better for the LK970, or worse?



OPERATIONAL NOISE: Projector Central rates the operational noise for the LK970, in Eco Mode, to at 34 decibels. Is that your experience with it? Or did it appear to be quieter than that in Eco Mode?



Thanks in advance.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I should hopefully know more after this weekend or very soon after. I think the rainbows are a little better on this machine than the UHZ65 and the fan seems to change speeds and thus noise levels dynamically based on the temperature but yes I would say in eco-mode it is definitely much quieter.

From how I understand it, there isn't a yellow segment on the wheel. It is yellow light derived from a segment on the phosphor wheel and a small clear section for the native blue laser light to go through and then when it hits the second color wheel, which has a red and green segment and two clear ones. I believe one clear section is to allow the native blue laser light to go through to give you wide, deep blues and the other clear section is for the yellow light created from the phosphor wheel to go through to give you the higher saturated yellows that I see. I think too many people are trying to think of these laser DLPs with dual wheels the same as how the lamp based DLPs act with a single, standard color wheel, but they seem to be different beasts altogether. This is actually what was mentioned to me by the Optoma product manager but I didn't really get what he was saying at the time until I did much more research after-the-fact and now I think I know what he means.

Black levels are as I have mentioned a few times before. Not JVC, Sony, Epson native blacks, but more than acceptable and not leaving me feeling like I'm wanting more when compared to all the other positives this machine gives me. Much of it is perceived deep blacks I am sure, but that doesn't matter to me as long as that's what my brain believes is there, just as it used to back in the day for 1080 interlaced HD on my high end CRT projectors, and what DLPs do with sequential color, as long as rainbows aren't too offensive (which they don't seem to be here, but I'm sure can be improved upon in subsequent iterations).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Any further news in regards to the LK970 ? Any reviews out there yet ?
Hopefully after this weekend.
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Last edited by Dave Harper; 04-07-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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post #53 of 2232 Old 04-07-2018, 03:50 PM
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Thank you for the review Dave, I look forward to your responses after this weekend too!
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post #54 of 2232 Old 04-08-2018, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I would say it's definitely a light cannon, but the image is so smooth and pleasing too. I really like the brightness, especially for HDR. The blacks and low level detail of course can and should be better, but given all the other positive attributes I find it a worthy tradeoff to be honest.
As a former W5000 owner I noticed that the Benq suffered from a noisy picture. I saw the same on the w7000. I have the Samsung spa 900b projector now and I am used to how clean the picture is compared to the Benq's. How does the noise compare to the 5000 and 7000? Did you ever see the Samsung before? If yes, how does the picture compare to the 900b? I realize that at 7k lumens, noise would be exaggerated compared to my 1k lumens. The part I am concerned about is your " blacks and low level detail of course can be better". Does the low level detail show too much dithering?
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post #55 of 2232 Old 04-09-2018, 12:48 AM
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Thank you Dave for your comprehensive and useful responses, I look forward to your in-depth evaluation of the LK970 and hopefully the DK8500Z.

Hope your wife is feeling better.
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I would love to see this light-cannon in person for a demo, but I cannot seem to find anyone anywhere in the west coast, or adjoining states, that have them in stock or a let alone a demo.

How can anyone buy a $10k+ projector without ever seeing it?
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I would love to see this light-cannon in person for a demo, but I cannot seem to find anyone anywhere in the west coast, or adjoining states, that have them in stock or a let alone a demo.

How can anyone buy a $10k+ projector without ever seeing it?
It's really classified as a pro line projector by BenQ so you wouldnt find it for demo in most high end home theater stores.

Typically bought for a pro purpose so demo not needed for market its aimed at, if it appears to meet that pro purpose. Bottom line probably need to buy blind from place with good returns policy.

One thing you can do is demo the UHZ65 if you can find that as it uses a similar color wheel setup so you can at least see how the RBE works out for you (tho Dave says it's a bit better on the BenQ)

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It's really a pro line projector so you wouldnt find it for demo in most high end home theater stores.
I haven't found it in any form of distributor for a demo. I would think that even the highest clients would like to see a product before they buy it.
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post #59 of 2232 Old 04-09-2018, 11:25 PM
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

Quote:
Originally Posted by coug7669 View Post
As a former W5000 owner I noticed that the Benq suffered from a noisy picture. I saw the same on the w7000. I have the Samsung spa 900b projector now and I am used to how clean the picture is compared to the Benq's. How does the noise compare to the 5000 and 7000? Did you ever see the Samsung before? If yes, how does the picture compare to the 900b? I realize that at 7k lumens, noise would be exaggerated compared to my 1k lumens. The part I am concerned about is your " blacks and low level detail of course can be better". Does the low level detail show too much dithering?

I don't have much if any experience on those projectors. I was always a CRT guy, then some older TAW Stealth and Optoma (H77/H79) DLPs, Sony Ruby and 45ES, a Marantz VP15S1 and a gap of about 6-8 years while I was sick and then went to Afghanistan as a contractor. When I came back I did mostly if not all Rental and Staging Video and Audio for PSAV before now getting back more heavily into the Home Theater game.

I don't see what I would call noise and wouldn't say the image is noisy at all. It is very smooth and pleasing, with amazing pop and sharpness and clarity. The LK970 is only 5,000 lumens, not 7,000. The DK8500Z I'm interested in testing is 7,500.

The ONLY way I mean better is that it is not JVC or Sony native black, NOT saying it is bad in the sense that when you watch it you think "man that's a milky mess" like I have seen from many other DLPs and DLP based theaters. I am sure much of it is perceived due to the super high brightness (which I just love for the HDR portion btw!), but who cares if your brain sees it that way, isn't that pretty much all that matters? 1080i was the same way. So is DLP sequential color, Sonia JVC and Epson eShift. When I see an amazing magic show I don't ruin the experience by being upset knowing it's an illusion. I just take what I see and enjoy myself!

Would it be better if it had JVC native on off to go along with the high HDR lumens? You bet! But unfortunately that isn't a reality yet so enjoy what you can afford!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
I would love to see this light-cannon in person for a demo, but I cannot seem to find anyone anywhere in the west coast, or adjoining states, that have them in stock or a let alone a demo.



How can anyone buy a $10k+ projector without ever seeing it?

Best bet is to find someone that bought one and go see it at their place if they allow it. Shoot me a PM and maybe I can assist finding an owner.
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