BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
According to BenQ it is less than rec709. Would be nice to see some proper calibrated measurements though. Dave promised to post when he calibrates the next one

I think you’re thinking of the LK990. The LK970 reaches Rec709 plus.

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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Has anyone contacted TVS Pro to see if the LK970 can be modified like what they did with the "upgraded" UHZ65? Have any you seen that upgrade in person yet?



Laser is the way to go. That Optoma is now transformed into a contrast BEAST with the big added plus of at/beyond full DCI P3 color and even for full stretch Rec 2020 getting over 80% of that and still getting 1800 cal'd lumens!!!



If it can be done there, why not here? Imagine that with the lens and additional lumens of this laser machine.

Great minds think alike Aztar!!! I was thinking this before and after they announced their upgrade for the UHZ65. I am planning to contact TVSPro and see if they’d like to partner on this. Me doing HarperVision and then doing the color and contrast upgrades.
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post #662 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Great minds think alike Aztar!!! I was thinking this before and after they announced their upgrade for the UHZ65. I am planning to contact TVSPro and see if they’d like to partner on this. Me doing HarperVision and then doing the color and contrast upgrades.
I messaged them on their YouTube channel regarding their mod a few days ago, and Ted replied - he seems easy to chat with so I'm sure he'll be happy to hear from you. More info on their blog apparently, so I'll have a look there again sometime.
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post #663 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think you’re thinking of the LK990. The LK970 reaches Rec709 plus.
This is from the 990 thread by chhanthony, I think I haven't seen any other numbers. Do you have any from your calibrations?

"I asked about the color gamut and the Dealer replied me as follow:-

LK970: REC709 - 95% chip 0.66"
LK990: REC709 - 92% chip 0.67"

Seems LK970/LK990 can't go beyond BT709 color gamut?"

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post #664 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
This is from the 990 thread by chhanthony, I think I haven't seen any other numbers. Do you have any from your calibrations?

"I asked about the color gamut and the Dealer replied me as follow:-

LK970: REC709 - 95% chip 0.66"
LK990: REC709 - 92% chip 0.67"

Seems LK970/LK990 can't go beyond BT709 color gamut?"
Those numbers look strange in that they both use the same size chip.

Even if those numbers on color space are correct, we're now talking about having the upgrade done on the UHZ65. I had a UHZ65 without the upgrade and color space tracked well and even went beyond BT709 in some colors.

Lol...I remember doing a side-by-side with my beloved JVC X990 and the UHZ65 and thought something was wrong with my JVC The UHZ looked so sharp and precise in comparison.
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post #665 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think you’re thinking of the LK990. The LK970 reaches Rec709 plus.




Great minds think alike Aztar!!! I was thinking this before and after they announced their upgrade for the UHZ65. I am planning to contact TVSPro and see if they’d like to partner on this. Me doing HarperVision and then doing the color and contrast upgrades.
It might be a good idea for you guys to contact BenQ too. BenQ's customer service is top notch. Just see if they are willing agree to or sample the modified machine so as to endorse the modification...so that anyone who does the upgrade will not suffer voiding his/her warranty.
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post #666 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 05:36 PM
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So who's going to wait for the 990? I'm trying to decide if I should try to upgrade my 970 to the 990. 1,000 extra lumens and HDR native would be worth it assuming everything is equal
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post #667 of 2564 Old 01-19-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post
So who's going to wait for the 990? I'm trying to decide if I should try to upgrade my 970 to the 990. 1,000 extra lumens and HDR native would be worth it assuming everything is equal
i m in the same boat, my local benq dealer will ask for me on monday for an upgrade to the 990 from my 970, i love the 970 and i like the idea of added 3D and 1000 extra lumens ( native HDR isnt a priority for me really since ill still be using the superior madvr tone maping ), but i really need to make sure that its at least as good as the 970 and they didnt sacrifice anything . Couple of people here had the 990 for testing but it still had bugs i think they need fixing, hopefully they will.

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post #668 of 2564 Old 01-20-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i m in the same boat, my local benq dealer will ask for me on monday for an upgrade to the 990 from my 970, i love the 970 and i like the idea of added 3D and 1000 extra lumens ( native HDR isnt a priority for me really since ill still be using the superior madvr tone maping ), but i really need to make sure that its at least as good as the 970 and they didnt sacrifice anything . Couple of people here had the 990 for testing but it still had bugs i think they need fixing, hopefully they will.
I would not be surprised if a good deal the extra 1000 lumens comes from a less accurate color calibration out of box in exchange for extra brightness. Both the 970/990 target the business market so having accurate color out of box is not a priority, high brightness is the priority to combat ambient light in conference rooms and auditoriums. In other words, when both the 970/990 are calibrated I would not be surprised if they were close in lumens output (would also not be surprised if they use exactly the same blue laser).

The main benefits of the 990 would be:
* Blu-ray 3D
* Native HDR/BT2020 format accepted over HDMI - especially useful for electronic devices (game consoles, dedicated media streamers, etc) that don't support tonemapping adjustments or have poor tonemapping.

Last edited by Ruined; 01-20-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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post #669 of 2564 Old 01-20-2019, 01:22 PM
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This sums it up great. If you have the opportunity to upgrade it may make sense to take it.

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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i m in the same boat, my local benq dealer will ask for me on monday for an upgrade to the 990 from my 970, i love the 970 and i like the idea of added 3D and 1000 extra lumens ( native HDR isnt a priority for me really since ill still be using the superior madvr tone maping ), but i really need to make sure that its at least as good as the 970 and they didnt sacrifice anything . Couple of people here had the 990 for testing but it still had bugs i think they need fixing, hopefully they will.
I would not be surprised if a good deal the extra 1000 lumens comes from a less accurate color calibration out of box in exchange for extra brightness. Both the 970/990 target the business market so having accurate color out of box is not a priority, high brightness is the priority to combat ambient light in conference rooms and auditoriums. In other words, when both the 970/990 are calibrated I would not be surprised if they were close in lumens output (would also not be surprised if they use exactly the same blue laser).

The main benefits of the 990 would be:
* Blu-ray 3D
* Native HDR/BT2020 format accepted over HDMI - especially useful for electronic devices (game consoles, dedicated media streamers, etc) that don't support tonemapping adjustments or have poor tonemapping.
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post #670 of 2564 Old 01-20-2019, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I would not be surprised if a good deal the extra 1000 lumens comes from a less accurate color calibration out of box in exchange for extra brightness. Both the 970/990 target the business market so having accurate color out of box is not a priority, high brightness is the priority to combat ambient light in conference rooms and auditoriums. In other words, when both the 970/990 are calibrated I would not be surprised if they were close in lumens output (would also not be surprised if they use exactly the same blue laser).

The main benefits of the 990 would be:
* Blu-ray 3D
* Native HDR/BT2020 format accepted over HDMI - especially useful for electronic devices (game consoles, dedicated media streamers, etc) that don't support tonemapping adjustments or have poor tonemapping.
wouldnt having smarteco function also benefit the contrast?
we dont have this on the 970 and it seems its implemented on the 990.

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post #671 of 2564 Old 01-20-2019, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
This is from the 990 thread by chhanthony, I think I haven't seen any other numbers. Do you have any from your calibrations?



"I asked about the color gamut and the Dealer replied me as follow:-



LK970: REC709 - 95% chip 0.66"

LK990: REC709 - 92% chip 0.67"



Seems LK970/LK990 can't go beyond BT709 color gamut?"

I’ll post something whenever I finally get a chance to do this latest LK970 I got a couple weeks ago.

I agree with Aztar and 12GAGE. I’m sure it’s just how they calibrate these for their business purposes. The numbers they post were specific done that way for their target market. That doesn’t mean it can’t be redone for ours.
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post #672 of 2564 Old 01-20-2019, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
wouldnt having smarteco function also benefit the contrast?
we dont have this on the 970 and it seems its implemented on the 990.
It should at the expense of lumens (~20-25% peak lumen reduction based on other benq pjs). Even tho it's not Smart eco I thought dave said the 970 had some sort of laser modulation function that improves black level also.
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post #673 of 2564 Old 01-20-2019, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
wouldnt having smarteco function also benefit the contrast?
we dont have this on the 970 and it seems its implemented on the 990.
It should at the expense of lumens (~20-25% peak lumen reduction based on other benq pjs). Even tho it's not Smart eco I thought dave said the 970 had some sort of laser modulation function that improves black level also.
Yeah it does but its not very aggressive, maybe with smarteco too it ll give better results.

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post #674 of 2564 Old 01-21-2019, 01:43 AM
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Can you adjust the laser brightness, and how much? Has someone measured the lumens? I mean can you dim it for SDR and use the full brightness for HDR.

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post #675 of 2564 Old 01-21-2019, 02:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Can you adjust the laser brightness, and how much? Has someone measured the lumens? I mean can you dim it for SDR and use the full brightness for HDR.

Yes you can adjust it using the custom brightness setting from 0-100.

I’ve measured about 3,600 calibrated lumens. You can use Normal for HDR and Economic for SDR, or customize.

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post #676 of 2564 Old 01-21-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Yes you can adjust it using the custom brightness setting from 0-100.

I’ve measured about 3,600 calibrated lumens. You can use Normal for HDR and Economic for SDR, or customize.
Dave, what does dimming function in the menu do?
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post #677 of 2564 Old 01-21-2019, 10:51 PM
 
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Dave, what does dimming function in the menu do?

It’s not what you think. I thought the same thing, thinking it’s some kind of “SmartEco” mode, but it’s just dimming the laser super low to save laser diode life.
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post #678 of 2564 Old 01-22-2019, 03:16 AM
 
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

Holy S*** that’s some eye candy! So clean and deep and detailed. Colors pop and almost 3D.

I copied in some prior settings and tweaked a little from there by eye based on my LG OLED C8. Not officially measured or anything yet, just playing around for a little while I had time tonight, but wow!

Throw in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Avengers Infinity War and many others and then hold on for the ride!

UB820 in HDR/BT2020 mode to LK970:

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post #679 of 2564 Old 01-22-2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Holy S*** that’s some eye candy! So clean and deep and detailed. Colors pop and almost 3D.

I copied in some prior settings and tweaked a little from there by eye based on my LG OLED C8. Not officially measured or anything yet, just playing around for a little while I had time tonight, but wow!

Throw in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Avengers Infinity War and many others and then hold on for the ride!

UB820 in HDR/BT2020 mode to LK970:

DAVE the cms seems very tame compared to ur older harpervision settings, is that due to oversaturated colors in the old one?
also do u see " brightness 45" crushing shadow details? if u have Bladerunner 2049 check the first chapter inside the house it needs to go up to around 51-52 to show all the shadow details in this scene on mine.
plz post some pics if u can of actual content, we like to see that.
Btw DAVE ur tone mapping harpervision settings has a special look to it that i REALLY like!! its so vibrant and has a pop that i dont get as much in other tone mapping.

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Last edited by tnaik4; 01-22-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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post #680 of 2564 Old 01-22-2019, 04:34 PM
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A quick picture of Dave's latest harpervision settings, looks stunning!!
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post #681 of 2564 Old 01-22-2019, 06:21 PM
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Looks great. BenQ has a special unit here. I am just glad more people are getting to see that.
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post #682 of 2564 Old 01-22-2019, 08:43 PM
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I can't get the picture to show

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post #683 of 2564 Old 01-22-2019, 11:10 PM
 
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
DAVE the cms seems very tame compared to ur older harpervision settings, is that due to oversaturated colors in the old one?

also do u see " brightness 45" crushing shadow details? if u have Bladerunner 2049 check the first chapter inside the house it needs to go up to around 51-52 to show all the shadow details in this scene on mine.

plz post some pics if u can of actual content, we like to see that.


Btw DAVE ur tone mapping harpervision settings has a special look to it that i REALLY like!! its so vibrant and has a pop that i dont get as much in other tone mapping.

I think I may have gone about it in a different way this time by cranking up the color enhancer. When I cranked up too much CMS, I think values like too much color brightness caused banding and solarization so I had to readjust my thinking and technique. I’m not sure which version yours is based on? I had an in between that I did for a recent sale that I just didn’t really have time to confirm and post here. I figured I would wait until I got this new one and do a new in depth pass at it. I also think the UB820 is making it better too. My last ones were with the Oppo 203 iirc.

Remember the ones I just posted weren’t done with any metering whatsoever. I just took the latest settings I had from last time and put them in and then played my well known scenes and tweaked by eye this time since I had such limited time last night. This is far from “official”, but damn it looked amazing!!! Maybe I’ll just keep it, measurements be damned, haha!

I think the modulating laser messes with the black level because when I set it according to the patterns it’s usually anywhere from 47-52 but when I play real world content it screams at me to turn it down and the image is the most pleasing to me at around 43-47, depending on material. I didn’t notice black crush in what I watched last night. Maybe our differing screens are impacting that some? I use a Stewart ST130 1.3 gain.

I think it’s just all the stars aligning with this BenQ laser model and what I was doing with previous projectors and my HarperVision stuff that just all came together in the perfect storm of “Holy Sh**!”

I’m actually afraid to try something else like the LK990 or others now. When I sold the LK970s I’ve had here and gotten something else to try, I was just disappointed and longed for another LK970! The HT9050 was the biggest disappointment. People kept saying it would be close and in some ways better than the LK970, but not even a contest man. The image I saw and just posted about last night was in 1,000 other leagues over the HT9050!!! Someone just asked me about comparing the Sony VW675ES I had vs the LK970 and I’d choose the LK970 every day of the week! Heck I picked it over the VW885ES I had!

Anyone with a budget between $5-20K (streets closer to the low end here) who’s serious and not just following the masses like sheep owes it to themselves to try one with HarperVision setup for HDR movies like GotG 2, Revenant, Etc. and then watch CBS or ESPN football (Fox broadcasts sucked!!!). No way I’d choose a HT9060 over this, and I haven’t even seen one yet (just knowing it can’t be THAT much improved over the HT9050, can it?), haha!

Although, if you’re so closed minded and only see “black” and nothing else, keep walking. EVERY other variable except maybe total color gamut width (which you won’t miss!) on the LK970 is better......period.


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I can't get the picture to show

Neither can I (again).
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post #684 of 2564 Old 01-23-2019, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
DAVE the cms seems very tame compared to ur older harpervision settings, is that due to oversaturated colors in the old one?

also do u see " brightness 45" crushing shadow details? if u have Bladerunner 2049 check the first chapter inside the house it needs to go up to around 51-52 to show all the shadow details in this scene on mine.

plz post some pics if u can of actual content, we like to see that.


Btw DAVE ur tone mapping harpervision settings has a special look to it that i REALLY like!! its so vibrant and has a pop that i dont get as much in other tone mapping.

I think I may have gone about it in a different way this time by cranking up the color enhancer. When I cranked up too much CMS, I think values like too much color brightness caused banding and solarization so I had to readjust my thinking and technique. I’m not sure which version yours is based on? I had an in between that I did for a recent sale that I just didn’t really have time to confirm and post here. I figured I would wait until I got this new one and do a new in depth pass at it. I also think the UB820 is making it better too. My last ones were with the Oppo 203

I think the modulating laser messes with the black level because when I set it according to the patterns it’s usually anywhere from 47-52 but when I play real world content it screams at me to turn it down and the image is the most pleasing to me at around 43-47, depending on material. I didn’t notice black crush in what I watched last night. Maybe our differing screens are impacting that some? I use a Stewart ST130 1.3 gain.

My version was based on the original settings u post on page 6, but this looks better to me.
Yes this is exactly what is happening with me, if i use hdr10 test pattern to set brightness i usually have to set between 47-52 , 52 being the easiest to see all bars above black, but when i watch actual content i always prefer it down to 45-46, its in rare occasions where it crushes some details with these settings but i ll live with it since it looks stunning and 3d like.
Why would the panasonic 820 make it look better if its just passing native hdr, does it have some settings to enhance the picture with native HDR? I m debating if i should get one to try it out.
This is the most i paid for a projector in my life and yet i feel this is the best value i got, we always talk about its picture quality, but being a laser is huge and i cant see myself buying any more lamp based projectors.
Cant wait for ur updated settings, i m getting soon a stewart cima neve to replace my carl's flexiwhite screen so that also should produce even better picture.

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Arendal 1723 LCR Monitors / M&K S150 Surrounds in 5.1.4 atmos setup / Yamaha AX2050 AVR / MiniDSP88BM audio processor/ beta3 6 channels Amp .

Last edited by tnaik4; 01-23-2019 at 05:37 AM.
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post #685 of 2564 Old 01-23-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

Although, if you’re so closed minded and only see “black” and nothing else, keep walking. EVERY other variable except maybe total color gamut width (which you won’t miss!) on the LK970 is better......period.
Yup, there's a very disappointing mind set in some corners here and does make you wonder if they can see anything else. In reality, they all project grey, not black, and do it to various degrees. As important as contrast and black levels are, it's the actual image that we look it, and quite often those elements can be found to be equal or better in projectors that other people are too quick to dismiss.

I'd love to get a chance to see some laser DLPs like the LK970 as I think laser is where it's at with most projectors now, but unfortunately because most people only hear or know about the big names, they tend to get ignored.
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Who says Cameron is "right" and why do we care about him so much - lol!

I trust Gary Lightfoot more than James Cameron.
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post #686 of 2564 Old 01-23-2019, 09:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
My version was based on the original settings u post on page 6, but this looks better to me.
Yes this is exactly what is happening with me, if i use hdr10 test pattern to set brightness i usually have to set between 47-52 , 52 being the easiest to see all bars above black, but when i watch actual content i always prefer it down to 45-46, its in rare occasions where it crushes some details with these settings but i ll live with it since it looks stunning and 3d like.

Why would the panasonic 820 make it look better if its just passing native hdr, does it have some settings to enhance the picture with native HDR? I m debating if i should get one to try it out.

This is the most i paid for a projector in my life and yet i feel this is the best value i got, we always talk about its picture quality, but being a laser is huge and i cant see myself buying any more lamp based projectors.
Cant wait for ur updated settings, i m getting soon a stewart cima neve to replace my carl's flexiwhite screen so that also should produce even better picture.

The Panasonic has HDR Optimizer mode, which in short is a dynamic tone mapping mode which works very well. It also appears a tad sharper to my eyes and the colors a little more saturated.
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post #687 of 2564 Old 01-23-2019, 10:05 AM
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I can't get the picture to show
right click on picture and open it in new tab. looks awesome!
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post #688 of 2564 Old 01-24-2019, 11:00 AM
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All I am hearing is that this projector is the best in every way except the black levels.

Here's my suggestion. Get a silver screen (either 1.0 or higher gain). I have a 1.8 gain silver micro perf screen, and recently the Sony guys brought their 360ES over for me to test out for 1 week. I can tell you the black levels astounded me and the sony guys. They have never seen their projector that black. If I didn't directly compare it with the 'black velvet' surroundings, i would have thought it was pure black. I also have a regular '1.0' gain white vinyl which i put up, and the black level isn't all the great on the Sony. But with the silver screen, it's like an order of magnitude blacker... and once you have that kind of black, you really never go back.. (pun intended).

When you watch Sci-Fi, concerts with light shows, etc, the blacks truly bring out the 'colors' or lasers, lights, etc... and the 3Dish effect is wholly dependent on the black level.. otherwise it's like a 2d image..

Now, I am sure the lk970 could benefit from the silver screen. I bet with the silver screen, it'll beat out the black floor of the best JVC 1080p projectors (on a normal white screen).
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post #689 of 2564 Old 01-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
All I am hearing is that this projector is the best in every way except the black levels.

Here's my suggestion. Get a silver screen (either 1.0 or higher gain). I have a 1.8 gain silver micro perf screen, and recently the Sony guys brought their 360ES over for me to test out for 1 week. I can tell you the black levels astounded me and the sony guys. They have never seen their projector that black. If I didn't directly compare it with the 'black velvet' surroundings, i would have thought it was pure black. I also have a regular '1.0' gain white vinyl which i put up, and the black level isn't all the great on the Sony. But with the silver screen, it's like an order of magnitude blacker... and once you have that kind of black, you really never go back.. (pun intended).

When you watch Sci-Fi, concerts with light shows, etc, the blacks truly bring out the 'colors' or lasers, lights, etc... and the 3Dish effect is wholly dependent on the black level.. otherwise it's like a 2d image..

Now, I am sure the lk970 could benefit from the silver screen. I bet with the silver screen, it'll beat out the black floor of the best JVC 1080p projectors (on a normal white screen).
Are there any cons inherent with using the silver screen, such as hot spotting or being able to see the fabric surface?
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post #690 of 2564 Old 01-24-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
I have both and i use both, but the LK970 gets the most usage, i just dont want to sacrifice significance brightness.
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Are there any cons inherent with using the silver screen, such as hot spotting or being able to see the fabric surface?
I almost never noticed the hot spotting, unless i am looking for it, especially for 'content viewing'. As for fabric surface, yes, if you're using micro-perf. You need to sit at least 15 feet away. My 2nd row is perfect. However, I have a fix for that. I used a white spandex and stretch it out behind the micro-perf screen and that made the micro perf disappear and everything's baby smooth... even at 10 feet away. I didn't notice any audio lost either as spandex is very sheer, especially if you stretch it well... but i am not sure if that works for a flat screen. Mine is curved, so when i stretch a spadex behind, it flushes tight onto the silver screen, covering the holes tightly....
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