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post #61 of 2454 Old 04-15-2018, 09:24 PM
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Hi Dave, did you manage to look deeper into the LK970 ?
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post #62 of 2454 Old 04-17-2018, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Hi Dave, did you manage to look deeper into the LK970 ?
Has anyone done a full review/test of this projector?
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post #63 of 2454 Old 04-20-2018, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Hi Dave, did you manage to look deeper into the LK970 ?
Not yet, but will definitely this weekend because it has to ship out Monday.

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Originally Posted by scoote69 View Post
Has anyone done a full review/test of this projector?
Not that I have been able to find. I am the only real techy person that seems to have used this in this type of environment I think. Seeing as my word doesn't mean much here apparently, I guess we will have to wait until there are some.

The only real "review" I saw was here, and must be translated:
http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/201709/benq-lk970/

Also, it appears that @12GAGE has found a much better explanation and proof that these BenQ BlueCore Laser Phosphor projectors use a dynamic laser control circuit which to my "untrained eye" works great! This is apparently the same as the "Constant Brightness" feature I saw mentioned on the Vivitek DK8500Z-BK. Unlike the "other" Dynamic Black/Laser dimming systems I have experienced, this one doesn't show any signs of pumping or being in use at all and it is virtually invisible to the eye. One of the big things I noticed with this BenQ LK970 is the image in dark scenes have so much shadow detail and the colors are still very vibrant and pop, even at low APLs, unlike many other projectors I have seen.

https://business-display.benq.com/en...rs/lu9915.html :

Ultra-High Contrast with Automatic Power Control
BenQ BlueCore laser projectors directly control light output for faster response and strikingly clear images at a super-high contrast ratio of 100,000:1. Additionally there are automatic brightness adjustments to retain clarity and subtle details in dark scenes and balance in bright scenes.

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Last edited by Dave Harper; 04-20-2018 at 12:47 PM.
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post #64 of 2454 Old 04-20-2018, 12:58 PM
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Thanks a lot Dave. Really excited about getting more info on these units.
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post #65 of 2454 Old 04-20-2018, 01:51 PM
 
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Thanks a lot Dave. Really excited about getting more info on these units.
Actually, thank YOU for the link 12GAGE!
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post #66 of 2454 Old 04-25-2018, 02:35 PM
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@Dave Harper

Any updates? Really would like to know some contrast and brightness measurements.
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post #67 of 2454 Old 04-25-2018, 02:52 PM
 
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@Dave Harper

Any updates? Really would like to know some contrast and brightness measurements.
I am doing some final calibrations before shipment starting tonight, so should have something soon.
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post #68 of 2454 Old 04-25-2018, 03:57 PM
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Thanks a lot Dave. I think everybody on this thread appreciates it. For me I would probably be most interested in brightness and the laser control. If you can get decent black level with the laser without pumping I think this unit would really check all of the boxes for me. I would also be interested in the gamma response/ shadow detail.
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post #69 of 2454 Old 04-25-2018, 04:08 PM
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As a lurker til now on this thread i'll second that.

Having played a little with the X12000/HT9050 I'm most curious as to how the two compare as, I gotta say, the LED offers a pretty sweet 'cinematic' feel to the image (and just needs a little extra kick in the black level department - for my tastes).

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post #70 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 11:03 AM
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I really can't wait to see what the calibrated Lumens will be. Anything over 2500 will be a winner for me.
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post #71 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 01:18 PM
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I think Dave may have a winner here. If I had to guess we will get a unit with similar native contrast to the other xpr units, but I think we will see very high ANSI contrast, calibrated lumens over 3,000, P3 color and sequential contrast in the 20k-30k :1 range. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I think this projector is a step change from what we have seen so far.




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I really can't wait to see what the calibrated Lumens will be. Anything over 2500 will be a winner for me.
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post #72 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I think Dave may have a winner here. If I had to guess we will get a unit with similar native contrast to the other xpr units, but I think we will see very high ANSI contrast, calibrated lumens over 3,000, P3 color and sequential contrast in the 20k-30k :1 range. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I think this projector is a step change from what we have seen so far.
I need a 2500+ lumens projector with good contrast for my proposed 158" scope screen.
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post #73 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I think Dave may have a winner here. If I had to guess we will get a unit with similar native contrast to the other xpr units, but I think we will see very high ANSI contrast, calibrated lumens over 3,000, P3 color and sequential contrast in the 20k-30k :1 range. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I think this projector is a step change from what we have seen so far.
Has anyone seen/heard/confirmed what percentage of 2020 and/or P3 this laser projector is expected to achieve? As the PR material only shows this semi-vague image...



I thought the DLP colour wheel limited colour range to some extent, whereas their LED model offered near 100% P3 coverage??

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post #74 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 05:41 PM
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I will see if I can find the marketing material, but I think Ben Q is marketing 96 % P3 coverage. That sounds possible. The barco simulation units get about 92 % of P3. (Dual lamp, dual color wheel). I imagine laser should do better.
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post #75 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I think Dave may have a winner here. If I had to guess we will get a unit with similar native contrast to the other xpr units, but I think we will see very high ANSI contrast, calibrated lumens over 3,000, P3 color and sequential contrast in the 20k-30k :1 range. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I think this projector is a step change from what we have seen so far.
I would love to see that as well, but I would be pleasantly surprised if the LK970 could muster over 3,500:1 sequential contrast without laser dimming. The reason I say that is the literature is somewhat confusing as to whether the LK970 has actual dynamic contrast, laser dimming. From what I understand, the unit seems to have a super white/anti white clipping constant algorithm in place but makes no mention of a true contrast multiplyer via laser dimming. I hope I misunderstood this point.

Regardless, the optics should be a sight to see still. This machine takes into account use for 3D simulation.

I can tell you that the sharpest projector I ever owned was the Benq W7000. While its native contrast was among the poorest in that price range, a dynamic iris helped it reach ultra high contrast status. Unfortunately, that iris apparatus showed signs of pumping and made some kooky chirping noises every time it operated.

I'm hoping the LK970 will be a reference machine when it comes to sharpness, notwithstanding being a shifter chip display. It has a 16 element lens which should produce outstanding detail!!! from that single chip format. Couple that with 2716x1528 native resolution shifted to 3840x2160 and my, oh, my it could be, perception-wise, one of the sharpest consumer projectors ever!!!

The laser algorithm, abundant brightness to provide good perceived contrast, and laser-enabled wider color, should make it all work out beautifully. If there is true dynamic laser dimming, then of course it will be even better contrast.

Last edited by Aztar35; 04-26-2018 at 06:19 PM.
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post #76 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 06:11 PM
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I think without laser dimming, I would definitely agree with 3500:1. I think that is the big question for this unit. How is the laser controlled ? I am hoping it has some laser dimming. It doesn’t need to be super aggressive, just enough to get the sequential contrast up. Maybe even 10k:1 may look great with the brightness and sharpness of this unit.
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post #77 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I think without laser dimming, I would definitely agree with 3500:1. I think that is the big question for this unit. How is the laser controlled ? I am hoping it has some laser dimming. It doesn’t need to be super aggressive, just enough to get the sequential contrast up. Maybe even 10k:1 may look great with the brightness and sharpness of this unit.
Right. I edited my post above to include that about dynamic laser dimming.
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post #78 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 06:53 PM
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If the coverage above is correct, I would say the unit will get low to mid 90% coverage of P3.
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post #79 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 07:00 PM
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If the coverage above is correct, I would say the unit will get low to mid 90% coverage of P3.
I think so. And it looks like it will have deficiency mostly for red.
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post #80 of 2454 Old 04-26-2018, 08:59 PM
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Anybody ever used the Hitachi LP-WU3500, its a WUXGA HLD projector? It puts out 3500 lumens with 30000:1 contrast.


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post #81 of 2454 Old 04-27-2018, 12:37 AM
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Anybody ever used the Hitachi LP-WU3500, its a WUXGA HLD projector? It puts out 3500 lumens with 30000:1 contrast.

https://youtu.be/xNlJgFc0yyg
Not a 4k machine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
Anybody ever used the Hitachi LP-WU3500, its a WUXGA HLD projector? It puts out 3500 lumens with 30000:1 contrast.

https://youtu.be/xNlJgFc0yyg
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Not a 4k machine.
And take that 30,000:1 contrast spec with a huge grain of salt.
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post #83 of 2454 Old 04-27-2018, 06:04 AM
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Ok, so neither one of you guys know, thankyou.

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post #84 of 2454 Old 04-27-2018, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
Anybody ever used the Hitachi LP-WU3500, its a WUXGA HLD projector? It puts out 3500 lumens with 30000:1 contrast.

Specs say color should look excellent, quiet at 21db low/eco. It is priced a little over $2,000. Pretty awesome, even if not 4K.

From those videos though, I can't tell how good the blacks are. Some of the footage had a slightly washed out look too, but again, I can't say for sure from videos alone.
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post #85 of 2454 Old 04-29-2018, 03:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
Thanks a lot Dave. I think everybody on this thread appreciates it. For me I would probably be most interested in brightness and the laser control. If you can get decent black level with the laser without pumping I think this unit would really check all of the boxes for me. I would also be interested in the gamma response/ shadow detail.
I don't see pumping at all and the black level is more than "decent".

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I really can't wait to see what the calibrated Lumens will be. Anything over 2500 will be a winner for me.
I think that could be a real possibility. I should (and have to) finish it up Sunday night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I think Dave may have a winner here. If I had to guess we will get a unit with similar native contrast to the other xpr units, but I think we will see very high ANSI contrast, calibrated lumens over 3,000, P3 color and sequential contrast in the 20k-30k :1 range. Maybe this is wishful thinking but I think this projector is a step change from what we have seen so far.
Seeing as it doesn't seem the laser Power Control can be turned off (but it is invisible, thank God!), then I don't think I can measure it's true native contrast. I think I read its sRGB mode turns off the Power Control, so I will try that to see if it's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoldsmith View Post
Has anyone seen/heard/confirmed what percentage of 2020 and/or P3 this laser projector is expected to achieve? As the PR material only shows this semi-vague image...



I thought the DLP colour wheel limited colour range to some extent, whereas their LED model offered near 100% P3 coverage??
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I will see if I can find the marketing material, but I think Ben Q is marketing 96 % P3 coverage. That sounds possible. The barco simulation units get about 92 % of P3. (Dual lamp, dual color wheel). I imagine laser should do better.
I got this from my BenQ guy regarding P3 coverage:
Quote:
Hello again Dave,
 
I heard back from our HQ support in Taiwan, I have been told the DCI-P3 color space percentage for the LK970 is confidential information.  Sorry.
I don't see the reasoning behind that decision at all, seeing as they don't specifically market it as having P3 coverage or any percentage of it. The only thing I can think of is maybe it does get to it or real close and they don't want to say that, so it doesn't steal any sales from other home theater models like the HT8050/9050?

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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
I would love to see that as well, but I would be pleasantly surprised if the LK970 could muster over 3,500:1 sequential contrast without laser dimming. The reason I say that is the literature is somewhat confusing as to whether the LK970 has actual dynamic contrast, laser dimming. From what I understand, the unit seems to have a super white/anti white clipping constant algorithm in place but makes no mention of a true contrast multiplier via laser dimming. I hope I misunderstood this point.....
It does have dynamic laser (power control) dimming, and it appears to work amazingly well with no pumping or easy to see operation at all.

Ultra-High Contrast with Automatic Power Control
BenQ BlueCore laser projectors directly control light output for faster response and strikingly clear images at a super-high contrast ratio of 100,000:1. Additionally there are automatic brightness adjustments to retain clarity and subtle details in dark scenes and balance in bright scenes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
....Regardless, the optics should be a sight to see still. This machine takes into account use for 3D simulation.

I can tell you that the sharpest projector I ever owned was the Benq W7000. While its native contrast was among the poorest in that price range, a dynamic iris helped it reach ultra high contrast status. Unfortunately, that iris apparatus showed signs of pumping and made some kooky chirping noises every time it operated.

I'm hoping the LK970 will be a reference machine when it comes to sharpness, notwithstanding being a shifter chip display. It has a 16 element lens which should produce outstanding detail!!! from that single chip format. Couple that with 2716x1528 native resolution shifted to 3840x2160 and my, oh, my it could be, perception-wise, one of the sharpest consumer projectors ever!!!

The laser algorithm, abundant brightness to provide good perceived contrast, and laser-enabled wider color, should make it all work out beautifully. If there is true dynamic laser dimming, then of course it will be even better contrast.
The LK970 doesn't support 3D.

This machine is without a doubt a "reference machine". We watched Lost in Space in 4K UHD on Netflix last night and we all, my wife and son included were utterly floored at the sharpness, detail and depth along with amazing color balance, especially the forest scenes with Will Robinson and Robot in Episode 2! I don't recall ever seeing anything quite like it to be honest. I couldn't stop saying "wow, I can't believe how sharp, colorful and 3D looking this is!" to my wife and son, and they agreed 100%! My wife kept commenting even after we were done watching and back in the living room and kitchen. If you knew my wife, you'd understand THAT is saying something. She doesn't ever notice even the most blatant artifact on screen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
I think without laser dimming, I would definitely agree with 3500:1. I think that is the big question for this unit. How is the laser controlled ? I am hoping it has some laser dimming. It doesn’t need to be super aggressive, just enough to get the sequential contrast up. Maybe even 10k:1 may look great with the brightness and sharpness of this unit.
It does, see above. ^^^
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post #86 of 2454 Old 04-29-2018, 10:29 AM
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I don't see pumping at all and the black level is more than "decent".

The LK970 doesn't support 3D.
Oops, I meant 3D simulation.... a 2D image but 3D-like for video gulf or other large-screen, digital game simulation.

It's really difficult to get a grasp of performance now without the tested numbers. But I know you said you've had the below projectors in your place, so how would the Benq LK970 compare to each?

1) Optoma UHZ65
2) Sony 885ES
3) JVC RS600
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post #87 of 2454 Old 04-29-2018, 12:34 PM
 
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Oops, I meant 3D simulation.... a 2D image but 3D-like for video gulf or other large-screen, digital game simulation.



It's really difficult to get a grasp of performance now without the tested numbers. But I know you said you've had the below projectors in your place, so how would the Benq LK970 compare to each?



1) Optoma UHZ65

2) Sony 885ES

3) JVC RS600

OK thanks for clarifying.

1) Beats it hands down overall.
2) I had a bad unit that I had to return so couldn't really compare. What I did see though was a different image between them with the 885 definitely having better native blacks but the LK970 being clearly brighter and sharper.
3) I think it's been too long since I had the RS600, but I think I would choose the LK970 over it for the many reasons I mentioned before. Plus I just didn't like the type of image the JVCs threw. It was great, don't get me wrong. Many folks love it and for good reason. It just wasn't my style of image. It was hard to pinpoint but I always felt like something was missing or just not right.
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post #88 of 2454 Old 05-04-2018, 11:53 PM
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Hey Dave any updates on results from your time with this unit?
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post #89 of 2454 Old 05-05-2018, 03:49 AM
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Measurements?
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post #90 of 2454 Old 05-05-2018, 05:49 AM
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Hopefully Dave will provide some feedback based on his calibrations. If I had to guess I wouldn't get caught up in the native contrast numbers too much. I think the calibrated brightness should be impressive 3k + lumens and the ansi contrast and sharpness should be outstanding. Maybe Dave can comment as well on the color calibration and the black floor on either fade to black or extremely low luminance frames. That would be greatly appreciated.
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