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post #961 of 2564 Old 03-14-2019, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
Ckgolf was just showing pics of his LK990 with a gray screen...looking pretty good so far. You're right, I too overall really focused on two brands for my main projector, but if this pans out consistently, it'll be a game changer for me.

Yep, and hopefully many others. That’s all I EVER wanted here, was for people to realize there’s more than just the small section of models being discussed here that performed OVERALL just as well or better for MUCH less coin!
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post #962 of 2564 Old 03-14-2019, 06:15 PM
 
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Not planning to, but if someone makes statements that need correction that'll have to happen. Sorry.

You mean like I’ve tried to do with you as well, regarding the LK970 and the preconceived notions you came in with, without ever seeing one? And no, I don’t care what your spec numbers say. I care about what’s on screen!
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post #963 of 2564 Old 03-14-2019, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You mean like I’ve tried to do with you as well, regarding the LK970 and the preconceived notions you came in with, without ever seeing one?
My only preconceived notions on the LK970 are that it's a DLP and will have a poor black floor. So far, that's not been disproven. So what is it you want to correct? Please by all means, do so. Why does everyone assume that a comment like "this projector has a poor black floor" immediately translate to "this projector is a PoS and you're an idiot"? All I've ever said is that this projector is going to have a poor black floor. Lets see what @woofer decides.

I have a friend with a 185" screen and have been trying to get him to buy this so I can go see it. Unfortunately, he's a black snob like me, but not as much. I don't think he realizes that in his case, the nx7's lack of brightness will be a worse problem than the poor black floor on the very bright LK970.
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post #964 of 2564 Old 03-14-2019, 06:37 PM
 
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
My only preconceived notions on the LK970 are that it's a DLP and will have a poor black floor. So far, that's not been disproven. So what is it you want to correct? Please by all means, do so. Why does everyone assume that a comment like "this projector has a poor black floor" immediately translate to "this projector is a PoS and you're an idiot"? All I've ever said is that this projector is going to have a poor black floor. Lets see what @woofer decides.



I have a friend with a 185" screen and have been trying to get him to buy this so I can go see it. Unfortunately, he's a black snob like me, but not as much. I don't think he realizes that in his case, the nx7's lack of brightness will be a worse problem than the poor black floor on the very bright LK970.

I’m not taking your bait. Many more things, not just by you, have been said and preconceived about this model, simply because it is a DLP. I can create post after post of quotes, but I’m not going to. I see where it leads if I do, so it’s not worth it.

Enjoy your RS4500 or whatever you get in the future!

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...... Lets see what @woofer decides.......

Of course, because my opinion for the last year plus has meant squat.
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post #965 of 2564 Old 03-14-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I’m not taking your bait. Many more things, not just by you, have been said and preconceived about this model, simply because it is a DLP. I can create post after post of quotes, but I’m not going to. I see where it leads if I do, so it’s not worth it.

Enjoy your RS4500 or whatever you get in the future!
Then if you don't want to follow the conversation through, you might want to avoid starting it in the first place with comments like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You mean like I’ve tried to do with you as well, regarding the LK970 and the preconceived notions you came in with, without ever seeing one? And no, I don’t care what your spec numbers say. I care about what’s on screen!
My current perception of the LK970, probably based a lot on your words, is that it's a top level projector sharper than my RS4500 and tons brighter with really bad black floor that wouldn't work for me.

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post #966 of 2564 Old 03-14-2019, 06:41 PM
 
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BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Then if you don't want to follow the conversation through, you might want to avoid starting it in the first place with comments like:

Oh, silly me. Here I thought it was you who started it...........

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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Not planning to, but if someone makes statements that need correction that'll have to happen. Sorry.
Dang it, I took your bait. C ya!
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post #967 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 12:48 AM
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Spent the majority of today with some HT friends comparing the LK970 . We had my Z1/RS4500 / X9900/ X7500 and my friends Sony 760ES. .

The LK970 CAN put out a truly truly "Stunning" image .....with a "Caveat" ..... The "Caveat" being the material has to NOT be comprised ( or very minimal ) of LOW APL Scenes!

There is no way of saying otherwise, but the LOW APL Black level is VERY POOR . Put this aspect aside just for a moment because on material that doesn't fall into that APL level the image is superb.

Some points..

Sharpness / Perceived .... The lens on the LK970 top notch, on many occasions it "appears" sharper than my Z1/RS4500. It IS substantially sharper than the SONY 760ES and embarrass the 2 E-Shift projectors!

Brightness... It lights up my 143" cope screen from 20ft with ease..... It is substantially brighter than my Z1/RS4500 .. 5000 lumens vs 3000 lumens.

Noise.... Its louder than my Z1 on MED Laser, and quieter than my Z1 on HIGH Laser.

My friend who owns the SONY 760ES ( he also has an X9500) loved the LK970... even after seeing its lacklustre LOW APL peformance , he stated he would take the LK970 over his 760ES because of the other good aspects of the LK970.

Myself....i "Defiantly Defiantly " prefer the LOW APL performance of my Z1/RS4500 over the LK970 , but in other areas i really like the LK970 ....on some material i preferred it to my Z1/RS4500..

The LK970 is areal conundrum...... On one hand it can look "Abysmal!!! " but on the other it can look truly "Stunning"

I think we are all looking for the perfect projector , which i dont think exists. ALL of the projectors here have strong and weak points...ALL the projectors here produced VERY enjoyable images..

Some will write the LK970 off due to it being DLP and having POOR APL Black level performance......fair enough.....thats what Personal Preferences are all about..

Me..... I very much like the LK970

OH..... @Dave Harper I am truly truly sorry but we DID do a split screen shot of "Interstellar" @markmon1

A few pics below...
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post #968 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 12:58 AM
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The Night time Black Panther and Interstellar scenes do look poor, sorry Dave, however the other scenes look great. Wonder if the LK990 improves upon the former.

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post #969 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 02:03 AM
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Thanks a lot Woofer. I think that is excellent analysis. At the end of the day, personal preference is key in choosing the right unit. To me a person has to be honest about their content preferences and environment; then they are more apt to choose the best unit for them. I think the pictures are telling, the LK 970 will definitely struggle on some content inherently due to the nature of single chip dlp. However, I still contend it is absolutely the best of its breed. (Single chip blue laser wobulated 4k units) I think also some people get low APL confused, most of the shots Woofer posted I would contend are fairly low apl with interstellar and the darker black panther scene probably being well below 1% APL. In those scenes especially we see an order of magnitude difference in rendering of the image between to two technologies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Spent the majority of today with some HT friends comparing the LK970 . We had my Z1/RS4500 / X9900/ X7500 and my friends Sony 760ES. .

The LK970 CAN put out a truly truly "Stunning" image .....with a "Caveat" ..... The "Caveat" being the material has to NOT be comprised ( or very minimal ) of LOW APL Scenes!

There is no way of saying otherwise, but the LOW APL Black level is VERY POOR .[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG] Put this aspect aside just for a moment because on material that doesn't fall into that APL level the image is superb.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Some points..

Sharpness / Perceived .... The lens on the LK970 top notch, on many occasions it "appears" sharper than my Z1/RS4500. It IS substantially sharper than the SONY 760ES and embarrass the 2 E-Shift projectors!

Brightness... It lights up my 143" cope screen from 20ft with ease..... It is substantially brighter than my Z1/RS4500 .. 5000 lumens vs 3000 lumens.

Noise.... Its louder than my Z1 on MED Laser, and quieter than my Z1 on HIGH Laser.

My friend who owns the SONY 760ES ( he also has an X9500) loved the LK970... even after seeing its lacklustre LOW APL peformance , he stated he would take the LK970 over his 760ES because of the other good aspects of the LK970.

Myself....i "Defiantly Defiantly " prefer the LOW APL performance of my Z1/RS4500 over the LK970 , but in other areas i really like the LK970 ....on some material i preferred it to my Z1/RS4500..[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

The LK970 is areal conundrum...... On one hand it can look "Abysmal!!! " [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG] but on the other it can look truly "Stunning" [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

I think we are all looking for the perfect projector , which i dont think exists. ALL of the projectors here have strong and weak points...ALL the projectors here produced VERY enjoyable images.. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Some will write the LK970 off due to it being DLP and having POOR APL Black level performance......fair enough.....thats what Personal Preferences are all about.. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Me..... I very much like the LK970 [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

OH..... @Dave Harper I am truly truly sorry but we DID do a split screen shot of "Interstellar" <img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_crying.png" border="0" alt="" title="Crying" class="inlineimg" /> @markmon1 <img src="https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/AVSForum/smilies/tango_face_grin.png" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

A few pics below... [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Last edited by 12GAGE; 03-15-2019 at 02:09 AM.
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post #970 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Spent the majority of today with some HT friends comparing the LK970 . We had my Z1/RS4500 / X9900/ X7500 and my friends Sony 760ES. .



The LK970 CAN put out a truly truly "Stunning" image .....with a "Caveat" ..... The "Caveat" being the material has to NOT be comprised ( or very minimal ) of LOW APL Scenes!



There is no way of saying otherwise, but the LOW APL Black level is VERY POOR . Put this aspect aside just for a moment because on material that doesn't fall into that APL level the image is superb.



Some points..
How about RBE? Did you or others notice any?

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post #971 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 02:28 AM
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How about RBE? Did you or others notice any?

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No RBE....from what i understand its NOT an issue with either Laser or LED based DLP,s
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
No RBE....from what i understand its NOT an issue with either Laser or LED based DLP,s
Cool. Optomas laser had a lot of RBE, so not all are issue free. Seems that this one has some different color wheel tech...

Now if they only would make a great dynamic dimming to it to make low APL look even a little better...

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post #973 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Spent the majority of today with some HT friends comparing the LK970 . We had my Z1/RS4500 / X9900/ X7500 and my friends Sony 760ES. .

The LK970 CAN put out a truly truly "Stunning" image .....with a "Caveat" ..... The "Caveat" being the material has to NOT be comprised ( or very minimal ) of LOW APL Scenes!

There is no way of saying otherwise, but the LOW APL Black level is VERY POOR . Put this aspect aside just for a moment because on material that doesn't fall into that APL level the image is superb.

Some points..

Sharpness / Perceived .... The lens on the LK970 top notch, on many occasions it "appears" sharper than my Z1/RS4500. It IS substantially sharper than the SONY 760ES and embarrass the 2 E-Shift projectors!

Brightness... It lights up my 143" cope screen from 20ft with ease..... It is substantially brighter than my Z1/RS4500 .. 5000 lumens vs 3000 lumens.

Noise.... Its louder than my Z1 on MED Laser, and quieter than my Z1 on HIGH Laser.

My friend who owns the SONY 760ES ( he also has an X9500) loved the LK970... even after seeing its lacklustre LOW APL peformance , he stated he would take the LK970 over his 760ES because of the other good aspects of the LK970.

Myself....i "Defiantly Defiantly " prefer the LOW APL performance of my Z1/RS4500 over the LK970 , but in other areas i really like the LK970 ....on some material i preferred it to my Z1/RS4500..

The LK970 is areal conundrum...... On one hand it can look "Abysmal!!! " but on the other it can look truly "Stunning"

I think we are all looking for the perfect projector , which i dont think exists. ALL of the projectors here have strong and weak points...ALL the projectors here produced VERY enjoyable images..

Some will write the LK970 off due to it being DLP and having POOR APL Black level performance......fair enough.....thats what Personal Preferences are all about..

Me..... I very much like the LK970

OH..... @Dave Harper I am truly truly sorry but we DID do a split screen shot of "Interstellar" @markmon1

A few pics below...
Thank you this is awesome. I'm really surprised by the night time city scene and how much better that looks on the Z1. The interstellar scene is about how I expected. The brighter scenes though, its really interesting how the Z1 has to have brighter dark sections in order for the scene to be bright enough but the 970 can still have a decent gamma curve and have some blacks in those scenes. I bet it makes the 970 pop even more on those. Of course the picture don't show any difference with sharpness.

So by any chance did you also take side-by-sides with the 760 and z1 or 760 and 970 on those low apl scenes? Would love to see those.
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post #974 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 02:57 AM
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Thank you this is awesome. I'm really surprised by the night time city scene and how much better that looks on the Z1. The interstellar scene is about how I expected. The brighter scenes though, its really interesting how the Z1 has to have brighter dark sections in order for the scene to be bright enough but the 970 can still have a decent gamma curve and have some blacks in those scenes. I bet it makes the 970 pop even more on those. Of course the picture don't show any difference with sharpness.

So by any chance did you also take side-by-sides with the 760 and z1 or 760 and 970 on those low apl scenes? Would love to see those.
Yep, On the brighter scenes i actually prefer the LK 970 to my Z1/RS4500..... it has more "pop" and somehow gives you the illusion of more contrast..

Will get some more pics tomorrow of the other PJ,s as you know yourself, setting up and comparing/taking pics..the time just fly,s!

Again......can t say it enough times ...... the LK970 here is crazy crazy SHARP.......its honestly slightly embarrassing for my Z1/RS4500 .

Another note.... NO BLOODY convergence....NO warm up for panels .....No warm up for focus.
Focus it once......turn it on, instant perfect focus....really is set and forget and NO need to check if anything has "Drifted"

A couple of people here today ask the pricing difference of the LK970 and the Z1/RS4500 , when i informed them they both replied in shock...."Well how come the cheap one is sharper/clearer than the bloody expensive one ?"
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post #975 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Yep, On the brighter scenes i actually prefer the LK 970 to my Z1/RS4500..... it has more "pop" and somehow gives you the illusion of more contrast..

Will get some more pics tomorrow of the other PJ,s as you know yourself, setting up and comparing/taking pics..the time just fly,s!

Again......can t say it enough times ...... the LK970 here is crazy crazy SHARP.......its honestly slightly embarrassing for my Z1/RS4500 .

Another note.... NO BLOODY convergence....NO warm up for panels .....No warm up for focus.
Focus it once......turn it on, instant perfect focus....really is set and forget and NO need to check if anything has "Drifted"

A couple of people here today ask the pricing difference of the LK970 and the Z1/RS4500 , when i informed them they both replied in shock...."Well how come the cheap one is sharper/clearer than the bloody expensive one ?"
Yea, this might be a perfect projector for games since those are generally bright scenes and benefit with more light.
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post #976 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 04:28 AM
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I have been "Flamed" many times in the past, and will most likely be "Flamed" many times in the present. BUT thats my observation..
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Wow, if I said that I’d be skewered and roasted over an open fire!!!
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Craig,

On those particular scenes , the LK970 actually looks "As Good" if not slightly better than my Z1/RS4500 !!
Great to be on this side of the forum... more adventure, more discovery to be had..
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The Night time Black Panther and Interstellar scenes do look poor, sorry Dave, however the other scenes look great. Wonder if the LK990 improves upon the former.
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
Cool. Optomas laser had a lot of RBE, so not all are issue free. Seems that this one has some different color wheel tech...

Now if they only would make a great dynamic dimming to it to make low APL look even a little better...

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It looks better than that on the LK970, trust me. I’m also hoping the LK990 is even better. The similar scenes in The Martian are nowhere close to that bad.
@woofer it would be really nice if you shared the details of the setup please. Your insistence of not doing this is making me wonder why. I certainly hope there isn’t some agenda here.

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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Spent the majority of today with some HT friends comparing the LK970 . We had my Z1/RS4500 / X9900/ X7500 and my friends Sony 760ES. .



The LK970 CAN put out a truly truly "Stunning" image .....with a "Caveat" ..... The "Caveat" being the material has to NOT be comprised ( or very minimal ) of LOW APL Scenes!



There is no way of saying otherwise, but the LOW APL Black level is VERY POOR . Put this aspect aside just for a moment because on material that doesn't fall into that APL level the image is superb.



Some points..



Sharpness / Perceived .... The lens on the LK970 top notch, on many occasions it "appears" sharper than my Z1/RS4500. It IS substantially sharper than the SONY 760ES and embarrass the 2 E-Shift projectors!



Brightness... It lights up my 143" cope screen from 20ft with ease..... It is substantially brighter than my Z1/RS4500 .. 5000 lumens vs 3000 lumens.



Noise.... Its louder than my Z1 on MED Laser, and quieter than my Z1 on HIGH Laser.



My friend who owns the SONY 760ES ( he also has an X9500) loved the LK970... even after seeing its lacklustre LOW APL peformance , he stated he would take the LK970 over his 760ES because of the other good aspects of the LK970.



Myself....i "Defiantly Defiantly " prefer the LOW APL performance of my Z1/RS4500 over the LK970 , but in other areas i really like the LK970 ....on some material i preferred it to my Z1/RS4500..



The LK970 is areal conundrum...... On one hand it can look "Abysmal!!! " but on the other it can look truly "Stunning"



I think we are all looking for the perfect projector , which i dont think exists. ALL of the projectors here have strong and weak points...ALL the projectors here produced VERY enjoyable images..



Some will write the LK970 off due to it being DLP and having POOR APL Black level performance......fair enough.....thats what Personal Preferences are all about..



Me..... I very much like the LK970



OH..... @Dave Harper I am truly truly sorry but we DID do a split screen shot of "Interstellar" @markmon1



A few pics below...

No need to be sorry. I never said it was the black king, but I have to say, those dark images are FAR from representative of what I see here! Can you PLEASE tell us finally what settings you used and what the source material was.....HDR, SDR? Did you calibrate? My black floor setting is usually 43 on the LK970. What was yours set to?

Although I absolutely HATE doing this, I guess I’ll have to show some images of my own. I’ll try to pickup the Black Panther UHD Blu-ray tomorrow.

Oh BTW, the blacks look so much better in the brighter image scenes you posted on the LK970. Much better ANSI. The night city scene is way off if you ask me, but I’d have to check that scene exactly I guess.

Oh, and don’t be so “defiant”!
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post #978 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 05:02 AM
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Thank you this is awesome. I'm really surprised by the night time city scene and how much better that looks on the Z1. The interstellar scene is about how I expected. The brighter scenes though, its really interesting how the Z1 has to have brighter dark sections in order for the scene to be bright enough but the 970 can still have a decent gamma curve and have some blacks in those scenes. I bet it makes the 970 pop even more on those. Of course the picture don't show any difference with sharpness.

So by any chance did you also take side-by-sides with the 760 and z1 or 760 and 970 on those low apl scenes? Would love to see those.
It looks like a tone mapping issue imo. There's probably a workaround to make it look better.
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post #979 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
@woofer it would be really nice if you shared the details of the setup please. Your insistence of not doing this is making me wonder why. I certainly hope there isn’t some agenda here.



Oh, and don’t be so “defiant”!
Dave.... very disappointed in your implied tone mate!

There is no F**king agenda... i am using the settings you provided ...my Black level is actually set at 42...so lower than yours.

I use a UB9000 / Oppo 203 and HTPC running MadVr...

I will gladly try ANY settings you suggest to improve the LOW APL as i really like the LK970 ..... BUT please Piss Off with the above implied tone!!
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post #980 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
@woofer it would be really nice if you shared the details of the setup please. Your insistence of not doing this is making me wonder why. I certainly hope there isn’t some agenda here.
Wow so if someone doesn't share your opinion or results it must be an agenda. Amazing. I guess all his raving about the quality of the lens and sharpness wasn't enough. He must have an agenda.

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Oh BTW, the blacks look so much better in the brighter image scenes you posted on the LK970. Much better ANSI. The night city scene is way off if you ask me, but I’d have to check that scene exactly I guess.
I super agree with this. Very impressive.
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
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Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Yep, On the brighter scenes i actually prefer the LK 970 to my Z1/RS4500..... it has more "pop" and somehow gives you the illusion of more contrast..[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Will get some more pics tomorrow of the other PJ,s as you know yourself, setting up and comparing/taking pics..the time just fly,s!

Again......can t say it enough times ...... the LK970 here is crazy crazy SHARP.......its honestly slightly embarrassing for my Z1/RS4500 .

Another note.... NO BLOODY convergence....NO warm up for panels .....No warm up for focus.
Focus it once......turn it on, instant perfect focus....really is set and forget and NO need to check if anything has "Drifted"

A couple of people here today ask the pricing difference of the LK970 and the Z1/RS4500 , when i informed them they both replied in shock...."Well how come the cheap one is sharper/clearer than the bloody expensive one ?" [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]
Yea, this might be a perfect projector for games since those are generally bright scenes and benefit with more light.
Yes u are totally right, i m a gamer and its one of the main reasons i bought the LK970, games usually dont have the black floor of movies and even on my OLED they dont look black so they benefit the most from what this projector has, it is actually stunning while gaming specially if u have high end pc and feed it native 4k.

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post #982 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
@woofer it would be really nice if you shared the details of the setup please. Your insistence of not doing this is making me wonder why. I certainly hope there isn’t some agenda here.



Oh, and don’t be so “defiant”!
Dave.... very disappointed in your implied tone mate![IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/IMG]

There is no F**king agenda... i am using the settings you provided ...my Black level is actually set at 42...so lower than yours.

I use a UB9000 / Oppo 203 and HTPC running MadVr...

I will gladly try ANY settings you suggest to improve the LOW APL as i really like the LK970 ..... BUT please Piss Off with the above implied tone!![IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif[/IMG]
Woofer if i may ask, do u find the UB9000 has any benefit at all if i have MadVr, since u have both i m interested to know specially when inputing dave's settings.
Thank you

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post #983 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 05:49 AM
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No RBE....from what i understand its NOT an issue with either Laser or LED based DLP,s
That's not quite true though... Rainbow Effect can most certainly be an issue with both Laser and LED based DLP technology projectors. The phenomenon can be reduced by increasing the respective cycling rates of the color wheels or LED panels, wherein it is my understanding that BenQ use a faster cycling rate with these projectors accordingly to help minimize it. But technically it still exists. Although, it is very good news to hear that you are not noticing it. But some people are more sensitive to noticing it than others. However, if the effect has been minimized to the extent that it's not at all noticable by the vast majority of people then it should be considered to be a non-issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Thank you this is awesome. I'm really surprised by the night time city scene and how much better that looks on the Z1. The interstellar scene is about how I expected. The brighter scenes though, its really interesting how the Z1 has to have brighter dark sections in order for the scene to be bright enough but the 970 can still have a decent gamma curve and have some blacks in those scenes. I bet it makes the 970 pop even more on those. Of course the picture don't show any difference with sharpness.

So by any chance did you also take side-by-sides with the 760 and z1 or 760 and 970 on those low apl scenes? Would love to see those.
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Yep, On the brighter scenes i actually prefer the LK 970 to my Z1/RS4500..... it has more "pop" and somehow gives you the illusion of more contrast..
I actually don't think that it is an illusion at all. I think that is actually the case

In short, I fully expect to be measuring higher contrast with these projectors as compared with the likes of the JVC Z1/4500 for the respective ADL image luminance range.

Remember that with DLP projectors, whilst the ON/OFF contrast will typically measure lower as compared with LCoS, the ANSI contrast should measure significantly higher. Wherein, there will in fact be a cross-over point above which the DLPs will measure superior / higher contrast.

So I fully expect that the objective measurements will simply confirm what you are subjectively seeing here, namely that the contrast with the BenQ for the respective higher image luminance range IS actually superior / higher than the JVC Z1/RS4500

What will be interesting will be to ascertainly precisely WHERE is the the cross-over and where this resides within the range within which the majority of video content resides...

Quote:
Originally Posted by woofer View Post
Again......can t say it enough times ...... the LK970 here is crazy crazy SHARP.......its honestly slightly embarrassing for my Z1/RS4500 .

Another note.... NO BLOODY convergence....NO warm up for panels .....No warm up for focus.
Focus it once......turn it on, instant perfect focus....really is set and forget and NO need to check if anything has "Drifted"

A couple of people here today ask the pricing difference of the LK970 and the Z1/RS4500 , when i informed them they both replied in shock...."Well how come the cheap one is sharper/clearer than the bloody expensive one ?"
What you are experiencing here are just some of the advantages of DLP technology based projectors as compared with LCoS. Whilst the ON/OFF contrast is the Achilles Heal with respect to most existing DLP projectors, aside from this, DLP projectors have the potential to significantly outperform LCoS projector equivalents in other aspects of video performance, such as those you are describing here

In short, without the current Achilles Heal of poor ON/OFF contrast performance, DLP is the superior technology. End of story.

Now you can hopefully understand my excitement regarding the performance offered by DLP projectors with high ON/OFF contrast... This really is the ultimate!

But irrespectively, it's great to be seeing DLP with laser light source now available at this price point with these BenQ projectors. And ON/OFF contrast aside, there are most certainly indeed such aspects wherein these projectors will outperform LCoS projectors, including ones that are much more expensive such as the JVC RS4500/Z1. So in this regard these BenQ projectors are throwing the cat amongst the pigeons that's for sure, especially given the pricing!


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I am 100% sure a good grey screen would have helped the darker scenes a lot.
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post #985 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 05:57 AM
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What you are experiencing here are just some of the advantages of DLP technology based projectors as compared with LCoS. Whilst the ON/OFF contrast is the Achilles Heal with respect to most existing DLP projectors, aside from this, DLP projectors have the potential to significantly outperform LCoS projector equivalents in other aspects of video performance, such as those you are describing here

In short, without the current Achilles Heal of poor ON/OFF contrast performance, DLP is the superior technology. End of story.

Now you can hopefully understand my excitement regarding the performance offered by DLP projectors with high ON/OFF contrast... This really is the ultimate!

But irrespectively, it's great to be seeing DLP with laser light source now available at this price point with these BenQ projectors. And ON/OFF contrast aside, there are most certainly indeed such aspects wherein these projectors will outperform LCoS projectors, including ones that are much more expensive such as the JVC RS4500/Z1. So in this regard these BenQ projectors are throwing the cat amongst the pigeons that's for sure, especially given the pricing!

How does the 3-Chip DLPs like the one in the Christie (which you said is the new ultimate), performs in terms of 'clarity' compared to single chip? I presume that with 3 chip, it'll suffer the same 'slight' convergence issues as the 3-chip Lcos?

Just wondering how much 'sharpness and clarity' using 3 chip gives up vs single chip... (other variables aside)
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Dave.... very disappointed in your implied tone mate!



There is no F**king agenda... i am using the settings you provided ...my Black level is actually set at 42...so lower than yours.



I use a UB9000 / Oppo 203 and HTPC running MadVr...



I will gladly try ANY settings you suggest to improve the LOW APL as i really like the LK970 ..... BUT please Piss Off with the above implied tone!!

Sorry I wasn’t saying you DID have an agenda, just that I was curious as to why you hadn’t responded to my questions earlier and was quite baffled, knowing you from these very forums.

I agree with the other poster that maybe something like the tone mapping or gamma could be off a tad on the low level.

Here a few quick pics I took on my phone. I was about to go to bed when I felt I had to stay up and give some semblance of what I see here. Don’t use these for sharpness and critical viewing as they’re just phone pics but at least you have an idea what I see here in some scenes with some low levels, not what’s depicted above, and a couple others for fun:



Goodnight all, it’s 2am here and I have to be up early for work!

I really do love you guys!
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post #987 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 06:13 AM
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Goodnight all, it’s 2am here and I have to be up early for work!

I really do love you guys!
Wow.. the color saturations are truly amazing... thanks for posting the pics.. somehow your camera photos look sharper than when i try to take them.. every photo i take is horribly out of focus...
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In the night city scenes of Black panther it seems its crushing a lot of black, i took the same pics from the 4k uhd movie, here it is.
I adjusted my phone camera to represent as close as possible what i m seeing.

This is tone mapped in MadVr.
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post #989 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 06:15 AM
 
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Wow.. the color saturations are truly amazing... thanks for posting the pics.. somehow your camera photos look sharper than when i try to take them.. every photo i take is horribly out of focus...

That’s just the crazy lens and sharpness that’s on this beast! I think they look way too unfocused compared to what I see here actually.
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post #990 of 2564 Old 03-15-2019, 06:34 AM
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Oh BTW, the blacks look so much better in the brighter image scenes you posted on the LK970. Much better ANSI. The night city scene is way off if you ask me, but I’d have to check that scene exactly I guess.

Oh, and don’t be so “defiant”!
The differences in blacks and depth in the mid to bright scenes are very unlikely to be caused by the ANSI contrast. That's differences in gamma calibration. It's very obvious that the BenQ is running with a much higher gamma. Calibrate them the same and i'll bet these differences go away. Thats also why you get the black crush in the darkest black panter scene (gamma too high for the BenQ projector contrast to resolve the lower grey steps).
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