BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP - Page 69 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2041 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Exactly.


The BenQ's can give you 90% of the quality of the rest of the projectors that it is actually competing with, for 1/4 the price, even compared to its cheapest competition in this bracket.

These BenQs...okay, maybe 90% or less in some areas, but 110% or more in others.

Now to finish my lunch.
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post #2042 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Sorry, I don’t watch 1080p Blu-ray if I can help it. It’s ancient in this day and age.
No one is watching Blu-rays here because they prefer the format, are nostalgic for the old days, or can't do better with their equipment. They are essentially using it as a pattern generator or calibration disc to provide a reference image with well-known qualities. But if something about the fact that it happens to be SDR is problematic to you do you have a space scene in an HDR title that you would suggest as a better test?

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post #2043 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Then you have a poor memory.

With looking into this and Z1 threads history you will see People go from "Woofer sent back the lk970" and then when people responded with "Well woofer said he actually preferred the 970 for some stuff" the same people responded with "Well obviously his Z1 isnt set up right" and then "well obviously woofer needs to get his Z1 calibrated" and when @woofer said his z1 was setup right and was calibrated, they responded with "well woofer obviously doesnt know what he is talking about"

I dont need to name names or go back in the forums to dig it up. But I assure you I have seen exactly what Woofer is speaking of.

I have seen people from both camps attack him and his credibility just for reporting his honest opinions.
I think I was the one that said he sent back the 970, because that is what I was told in an email that he was doing. I think that was the plan until a friend came over and decided to buy it.
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post #2044 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
@David Harper

Just use this comparison from JAVS as a more accurate representation of this "ONE" scene.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134915

While I do think its funny this is the only "important" scene they are testing, but oh well.

EDIT: I combined the two images DLA-X9500 vs LK990

*** ND Filter was used on the BenQ to match the Brightness levels though ***
You actually kinda have to look at all of them posted ... Too difficult to capture the real black floor of my JVC in that shot.

The 2 second exposures give you a bit more of an idea just how different it is through the steps.

But if I was to pick only one for you to look at, it would be this one.

DI OFF on JVC / Smart Eco on with BenQ. This time the JVC black floor is correctly exposed (the previous one was clipping some of the black floor).

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134966

The thing is though, like I said, I have handicapped the JVC here by using an ND filter on the BenQ (halving the black floor), I dont watch with the DI off, and definitely dont watch SDR at -0, I watch at -10.
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post #2045 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
No one is watching Blu-rays here because they prefer the format, are nostalgic for the old days, or can't do better with their equipment. They are essentially using it as a pattern generator or calibration disc to provide a reference image with well-known qualities. But if something about the fact that it happens to be SDR is problematic to you do you have another space seen in an HDR title that you would suggest as a better test?
Or maybe because there is only 2% of the back catalogue available in UHD right now.... Some people actually enjoy movies from before the format came out.

If a version of one film is technically inferior to the other (raised black floor) it's a different story.

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post #2046 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Aztar35 View Post
These BenQs...okay, maybe 90% or less in some areas, but 110% or more in others.

Now to finish my lunch.
Right, I'll reiterate my post.

The BenQ will give you 90% of the performance of the Projectors that it is actually competing with: 4000+ lumen projectors for people with large screens.

Your options are the BenQ's, the Sony VW5000 (over 5x the price), the Barcos ranging from 6-20x the price, and other projectors that are between 5-100x more expensive.

If people are looking for something for a 120" screen, I doubt most people on this thread would suggest the BenQs. Its just annoying when people say "The black performance is UNACCEPTABLE at this price point!" When its simply not true. This is the cheapest option for a lot of people, and has 90% of the performance of projectors 5-20x more expensive.

But if you are buying the BenQs you should be aware, by saving that 5-20x you are getting a worse black floor than the JVC N5-9. But those JVC's arent an option for some of us anyways due to screen selection.
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post #2047 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 03:58 PM
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Is there any sort of pumping or pulsing with smart eco? I don't know why but that sort of stuff really breaks me out of a movie.
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post #2048 of 2564 Old 05-01-2019, 10:14 PM
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Woofer, I hope you do post your impressions of the compares when Javs sends you the 990 he has been playing with.

I believe that most of us In here are always doing comparative assessment between projectors and even everyone in the group’s relative assessments.

While we might know that person A is a JVC guy and absolutely has to have the best black levels his opinion on how the 979 and 990 compare are still valuable to me, even though I might acknowledge that his taste might make him biased towards either of the DLPs.

Also I can likely count his assessments on the two PJs color performance,etc.

Some people might look at me and might question my feedback in regards to a projectors brightness knowing that I’m willing to compromise picture perfect color accuracy for a better looking, sharper, brighter and crisper look.

But some people who know I came from Sharp, Sony, JVC and Marantz projectors too and that I preferred an ND filter and a high contrast gray screen for the blacks on my vp11s2 might think that my feedback the the low APL picture performance of the 970 was much more than just acceptable to me might be interesting.

I know I valued the feedback I was seeing from Dave, tnaik and 12gage especially when I read that they had more expensive JVCs or Sony’s and despite that they, and their families, preferred to watch movies on the 970 and it’s low native contrast ratio.
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post #2049 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
But if I was to pick only one for you to look at, it would be this one.

DI OFF on JVC / Smart Eco on with BenQ. This time the JVC black floor is correctly exposed (the previous one was clipping some of the black floor).

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134966

The thing is though, like I said, I have handicapped the JVC here by using an ND filter on the BenQ (halving the black floor), I dont watch with the DI off, and definitely dont watch SDR at -0, I watch at -10.
For bright projectors, ND filters work well - I used one to great effect with my 760ES for watching SDR content, as it made an appreciable improvement to image quality. For HDR though we obviously have to remove the filter.

Do you have a screen shot comparison, identical to the above, but without the ND filter in place - I think would be more representative of how the black floor would compare when running HDR, even if its just showing an SDR frame. As you say, you have the JVC at settings (DI excluded) at what would generally be used for HDR.
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post #2050 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
For bright projectors, ND filters work well - I used one to great effect with my 760ES for watching SDR content, as it made an appreciable improvement to image quality. For HDR though we obviously have to remove the filter.

Do you have a screen shot comparison, identical to the above, but without the ND filter in place - I think would be more representative of how the black floor would compare when running HDR, even if its just showing an SDR frame. As you say, you have the JVC at settings (DI excluded) at what would generally be used for HDR.
Sure

Its actually quite similar.

I took this again just now, I did both shots again, same exposure and shutter speed as before since I was happy with how this captures the black floor of my JVC.

This is pretty much how it looks... The ship is much brighter on the LK.

And Smart ECO IS doing a lot compared to native, its a drastic difference native vs Smart Eco.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134984
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post #2051 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MDesigns View Post
That would be really good, but I thought that it was even short of Rec709. Have you or someone measured that high?


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Did you ever get an answer for this? I don't think I've seen a CIE chart posted for this projector yet, but I had also read elsewhere that it couldn't reach 709?
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post #2052 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 01:57 AM
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OK So JVC vs LK990 Smart Eco No ND Filter

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134984

BenQ Native vs Smart Eco

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134983

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post #2053 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
OK So JVC vs LK990 Smart Eco No ND Filter

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134984

BenQ Native vs Smart Eco

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134983
You can see why David was getting defensive.

The Woofer shot looked like the Eco off and not Eco on like most people would be running.
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post #2054 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
OK So JVC vs LK990 Smart Eco No ND Filter

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134984

BenQ Native vs Smart Eco

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134983
Oh, wow! Thanks for posting that. After all the discussion about blacks, I was expecting the BenQ to be terrible. But actually looks to be as good or better than my 40ES. I know it's difficult to compare from photos, and obviously the 40ES is a lower-end machine, and isn't in the same league as the JVC's being discussed here, but it's the only point of comparison that I have.

For someone that has to prioritize lumens, this looks like a solid choice! Especially at the price point.

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post #2055 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
You can see why David was getting defensive.

The Woofer shot looked like the Eco off and not Eco on like most people would be running.
Yea unfortunately, that's due to the fact that the LK970 dynamic dimming doesn't do much at all. The LK990 dimming seems to be a lot better. It's also possible that Javs had brilliant color disabled on the LK990 which he also indicated halves the lumens, which the LK970 does not have brilliant color toggle, so it would be double the lumens and also cause the black floor to be raised.

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post #2056 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Did you ever get an answer for this? I don't think I've seen a CIE chart posted for this projector yet, but I had also read elsewhere that it couldn't reach 709?
No i haven't. Benq says that it cant reach 709. Though Javs said that the LK990 "overshoots" the gamut (in some modes?) and posted graphs, but I didn't see any numbers...

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post #2057 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 05:58 AM
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Yea unfortunately, that's due to the fact that the LK970 dynamic dimming doesn't do much at all. The LK990 dimming seems to be a lot better. It's also possible that Javs had brilliant color disabled on the LK990 which he also indicated halves the lumens, which the LK970 does not have brilliant color toggle, so it would be double the lumens and also cause the black floor to be raised.
No I used an ND filter. But the more recent shots are no ND and brilliant colour on. So about 4500:1 dynamic.

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post #2058 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
No I used an ND filter. But the more recent shots are no ND and brilliant colour on. So about 4500:1 dynamic.
Ok so the lumens on the LK990 with the more recent shots are close to the LK970. But the LK970 doesn't have a smart eco mode that works like the LK990 so the dynamic dimming doesn't get anywhere near the same level of black on that scene I think.

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post #2059 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
You can see why David was getting defensive.



The Woofer shot looked like the Eco off and not Eco on like most people would be running.
Yeah the smart eco is absolutely required. Projector looks broken without it.

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post #2060 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Ok so the lumens on the LK990 with the more recent shots are close to the LK970. But the LK970 doesn't have a smart eco mode that works like the LK990 so the dynamic dimming doesn't get anywhere near the same level of black on that scene I think.
Probably. The native to smart eco dimming seems as drastic as when the JVC fully open iris clamps down the di on a scene. I know you know what I mean there you see the black level fade quite a lot compared to normal. In this case it's 5x multiplier which is a good start.

BUT ITS STILL POOR. Sorry.

If they could hit 20k dynamic it would probably go a really long way.

But I've said it before and will say it again I can't live with less than 50k:1. If anything that's super clear now.

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post #2061 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Yea unfortunately, that's due to the fact that the LK970 dynamic dimming doesn't do much at all. The LK990 dimming seems to be a lot better. It's also possible that Javs had brilliant color disabled on the LK990 which he also indicated halves the lumens, which the LK970 does not have brilliant color toggle, so it would be double the lumens and also cause the black floor to be raised.
Extra hard to believe Dave when he says the 970 has better blacks then ...

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post #2062 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
Oh, wow! Thanks for posting that. After all the discussion about blacks, I was expecting the BenQ to be terrible. But actually looks to be as good or better than my 40ES. I know it's difficult to compare from photos, and obviously the 40ES is a lower-end machine, and isn't in the same league as the JVC's being discussed here, but it's the only point of comparison that I have.



For someone that has to prioritize lumens, this looks like a solid choice! Especially at the price point.
Doesn't the 40es only have like 5000:1 contrast? Because that's what this projector does with dimming. I've said this a week ago.

I have to handicap my projector to make it look 'acceptable' next to it. 43k vs ~4.5k. If I let my projector use it's DI. 430k vs 4.5k lol. 100x more contrast. Seen below.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134921
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post #2063 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 06:10 AM
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Yeah the smart eco is absolutely required. Projector looks broken without it.

Same thing with the BenQ HT9060 I tested yesterday


SmartEco = On


or ELSE!!!!



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post #2064 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 08:43 AM
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So for the 990, you pretty much HAVE to leave BC on, or else you lose half the lumens.

So, for the latest pics of the 990 that is with both Smart Eco and BC on? How does Smart Eco affect lumen output?

Im between the 970 and 990 currently as there is no projector currently ticking every box for me atm and am willing to spend <10k for now and wait til something better comes available for my situation.

If Smart Eco is all that separates the 970 from the 990, I need to be sure that I will actually be able to use Smart Eco or else there is no point in stepping up to the 990. I know the BC makes perfect calibration impossible, but I accept I am making certain compromises with this projector selection.
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Extra hard to believe Dave when he says the 970 has better blacks then ...

Please show me where I ever said the LK970 had better blacks than the LK990. I “may” have been supposing and guessing some things between Automatic Power Control (970) and SmartEco (990) when I first got the 990 and was playing with the modes, because before I figured it out it was bad.

You’re quite the instigator, aren’t you, dropping little bombs like that with no other info and only to incite confrontation?


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No i haven't. Benq says that it cant reach 709. Though Javs said that the LK990 "overshoots" the gamut (in some modes?) and posted graphs, but I didn't see any numbers...

You’re confusing the LK970 with the LK990.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Please show me where I ever said the LK970 had better blacks than the LK990. I “may” have been supposing and guessing some things between Automatic Power Control (970) and SmartEco (990) when I first got the 990 and was playing with the modes, because before I figured it out it was bad.

You’re quite the instigator, aren’t you, dropping little bombs like that with no other info and only to incite confrontation?





You’re confusing the LK970 with the LK990.
Dave, does the 990 Smart Eco mode effect lumen output? I know Javs reported that BC heavily influences it, but I dont recall reading whether or not Smart Eco does
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post #2067 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Doesn't the 40es only have like 5000:1 contrast? Because that's what this projector does with dimming. I've said this a week ago.

I have to handicap my projector to make it look 'acceptable' next to it. 43k vs ~4.5k. If I let my projector use it's DI. 430k vs 4.5k lol. 100x more contrast. Seen below.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/134921
Thanks - that comparison shot is pretty much what I would expect to see.

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post #2068 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You’re confusing the LK970 with the LK990.
I thought they were slightly different but both under rec709? Or is there a larger number measured for rec709? Waiting your calibrations/measurements.

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post #2069 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 11:23 AM
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Hello everyone
I have good news, I finally caliber the lk970 on my technical grey canvas xy 0.8 accoustic.
the results are very good in the dark and the dynamics! I finally have an ultimate pictures with this canvas and the lk970 ..
on my 140 inch cinemascope i got 16 foot lambert in eco mode and a contrast of 1200: 1 and gamma 2.38..this a perfect association for me with this lk970...
Dave trust me this association is very amazing...
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post #2070 of 2564 Old 05-02-2019, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Dave, does the 990 Smart Eco mode effect lumen output? I know Javs reported that BC heavily influences it, but I dont recall reading whether or not Smart Eco does
No it does not. Only BC.

Smart eco is the dimming mode which you seriously want on all the time or the image is horrible.

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