BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Then you and I are talking about two different issues. You cannot calibrate your way around these.

Then I repeat.......Uninformed.
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post #2312 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:22 AM
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That is awesome Steve. Over the past year of viewing I pretty much feel the exact same way. The unit is not perfect but it does some critical things very well in the right environment.

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Still no regrets here, 12gage.

I wish I had more time myself to play with it but I have been traveling out west the past three weeks and going on vacation for two weeks starting this weekend.

I have been building up my UHD Blu-ray library though and am planning on some marathon sessions when we return.

Great to see all the feedback. It’s amazing to me how two people can see such differences when looking at the exact same thing.

I’m very grateful I’m relatively easy to please. I just want a great looking picture and don’t need it to be picture perfect.

Can’t wait to hear Fred and SOWKs observations.

It is Steve By the way (fred is part of my last name haha)


Well I played around with it tonight for about 6 hours (no measuring except lumen output). Will bring it over to SOWK tomorrow night.


My first impressions. Its a light cannon. Hitting 32.5 FtL (180' wide 2.37:1 screen 95 sq ft)with my UH480 lens in place so that is just over 3000 lumens.


Now this is coming from a guy who has almost 2000 hours in 3 plus years on my RS600. I love the blacks on the 600 and of course it is the best.


I watched 5-10 mins of 25 ish different movies (thank goodness for an HTPC). I was using MadVR and Rec 709. The black on this 970 were a lot better than I was expecting.



Underworld looked very good. Passengers was very impressive. The space scenes on Passengers looked great. The colors on animated films (coco and toy story) made me think I was watching it on a huge TV. Even her dress(in passengers) in one scene was realy black. John wick looked better than expected. I have to say I am impressed. I did not use any settings other than the norms on MadVR. I had the laser at maximum. I would enjoy having a projector with a stable light engine for a few years.

I also played a clip from National Parks in 4K. Also great looking. I have always said no matter what we see on these forums, you have to really see things with your own eyes no matter what projector. I saw no RBE, but I knew I probably would not. I had a Optoma H77 back in 2004 and never saw any and that color wheel was slower then this one.

All is all, I am impressed so far. On to Tony's tomorrow(aka SOWK), then back to my theater on Friday for more testing and maybe mounting it. I might just have a RS600 for sale soon. We will see after a few weeks.

Time for bed


Steve
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post #2313 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:27 AM
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I cannot order another ht3550 from the same place because the price went up, I called and they said I had to order another one since the return was already processed as a damaged unit.
Pretty lame. I shouldn't have bought it anyhow, I don't know if I'm going to get another one or not to be honest, had buyer's remorse the instant it got here (of course that might be because of damaged box).

I wish I could get a JVC RS-440 for that silly price I once saw (like $1500), I'd probably just do that.
I only wanted to try the ht3550 to see how it compared to my old Benq.

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post #2314 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Then I repeat.......Uninformed.
How so?

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post #2315 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 04:10 AM
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Dave, The ones saying the LK970's blacks are like 20% APL on the JVC's in theory could very well be accurate with the JVC Auto Iris on and starting at the minimum locked iris position (-15), I have not tested but I could see this being a possibility.

But then you are NOT even remotely comparing Apples to Apples. As the max lumen output of the JVC will be ULTRA low compared to the LK970 and the 100% APL pattern on the JVC might be like the 20% APL on the 970....




Bottom line: (This is my opinion) (assuming a 1.0 gain screen)

If your screen is 130" wide or less you SHOULDN'T buy the LK970 or the LK990.

But if you are over the 130" wide+ and as you keep getting larger the LK970 and LK990 become better and better. (I already have my JVC on High and Full Open Iris to get enough brightness.)

I will be testing on a 150" wide Seymour XD Screen, so the LK970 will be able to put up a tremendous fight.


*I will try to test the BenQ LK970 vs the JVC NX7 in my real world situation of full open iris and High lamp vs the LK970 and see what APL on the JVC the BenQ's LK970's black level will be at. I don't think it will be anywhere near 20% APL though. (5-10% is my bet)* - I understand this will upset some here, but that is how I run the JVC in "MY" real world. The Dynamic Iris issues when already pushing the projector to the limits make using Auto a non-starter to me. (Yellowing and Major Clipping)


Honestly, I am not sure why people sit and fight all day over this stuff tbh.

If your brightness is perfectly fine with something like a JVC or Sony and you desire no additional brightness then don't even concern yourself with the likes of the LK970/LK990.

But you could at least still consider the HT9060. There are still benefits to DLP and LED light source over SXRD and DILA with UHP light source. You just have to give up ultimate black levels to get those additional benefits.

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post #2316 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Bottom line: (This is my opinion)

If your screen is 130" wide or less you SHOULDN'T buy the LK970 or the LK990.

But if you are over the 130"+ and as you keep getting larger the LK970 and LK990 become better and better. (I already have to have my JVC on High and Full Open Iris to get enough brightness.)

I will be testing on a 150" wide Seymour XD Screen, so the LK970 will be able to put up a tremendous fight.


*I will try to test the BenQ LK970 vs the JVC NX7 in my real world situation of full open iris and High lamp vs the LK970 and see what APL on the JVC the BenQ's LK970's black level will be at. I don't think it will be anywhere near 20% APL though. (5-10% is my bet)* - I understand this will upset some here, but that is how I run the JVC in "MY" real world. The Dynamic Iris issues when already pushing the projector to the limits make using Auto a non-starter to me. (Yellowing and Major Clipping)


Honestly, I am not sure why people sit and fight all day over this stuff tbh.
Sometimes it is for the benefit of the many we sacrifice our own reputations of the one.
Hah, fat chance, it's called being stubborn...

Do you really find a JVC not having enough brightness for 140" to 150" screen on a new lamp, I would find that very surprising unless you are talking about wanting a torch mode for HDR?
Now if you want to talk about long-term brightness and lamp costs for heavy users, then that might make a lot more sense.

I remember I once had a PM from a guy asking me about the high JVC lamp prices.
I asked him how often he was going to use his projector, he said at least 'once a month' for a few hours, I almost died right there.
I told him in about 10-20 years he might need a new lamp.

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post #2317 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 04:34 AM
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Sometimes it is for the benefit of the many we sacrifice our own reputations of the one.
Hah, fat chance, it's called being stubborn...

Do you really find a JVC not having enough brightness for 140" to 150" screen on a new lamp, I would find that very surprising unless you are talking about wanting a torch mode for HDR?
Now if you want to talk about long-term brightness and lamp costs for heavy users, then that might make a lot more sense.

I remember I once had a PM from a guy asking me about the high JVC lamp prices.
I asked him how often he was going to use his projector, he said at least 'once a month' for a few hours, I almost died right there.
I told him in about 10-20 years he might need a new lamp.

150" wide.

aka 172" equivalent 16X9

If you had something like 1.3-1.5 gain. It would likely work very well.

but at .94, yes, I would prefer a little more brightness (Not necessary, but it would be my preference.)

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post #2318 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 05:42 AM
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The space scenes on Passengers looked great.
As an FYI, the space scenes on Passengers provide very raised black levels and the blacks on that movie are extremely grey no matter what display you have. So the better the contrast on your projector, the worse you will think passengers space scenes look. The worse your black floor on your projector, you won't notice passengers looking so bad because you're use to bad black performance.

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post #2319 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 06:07 AM
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you won't notice passengers looking so bad because you're use to bad black performance.
Did you read my whole post. I have had the RS600 for 3 plus year and love the blacks, just need more light if possible for my screen. I know what true blacks looks like. I am for sure not going to argue about 1 movie. Plus I never said the 970 has the same black levels as my JVC, because it does not.

Like I said I let my eyes do the testing. To each their own.

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post #2320 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveFred View Post
Did you read my whole post. I have had the RS600 for 3 plus year and love the blacks, just need more light if possible for my screen. I know what true blacks looks like. I am for sure not going to argue about 1 movie. Plus I never said the 970 has the same black levels as my JVC, because it does not.

Like I said I let my eyes do the testing. To each their own.
Actually, your opinion, your eyes, and your tastes are wrong.

sorry.

Welcome to avsforum.

To be fair, its not necessarily your fault, you probably just dont know what a good image looks like.

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i think this whole thread can be fixed by just one question : What is your tolerance for black level ?

if u absolutely need the deepest black than by all means u have no other option than a JVC , because u ll find anything else (sony/epson...dlp or not) not acceptable.

for me i have both, and i really appreciate the black level that my JVC produce, but once i tried and figured out my LK970 i found out that brightness is as important as for me black level , add to that the sharpness/clarity of that lens and the fact that most movies dont have many very very low apl scenes to the point were the 970 doesnt look good, it became my go to projector for all my 4k HDR movies.

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post #2322 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Dave, The ones saying the LK970's blacks are like 20% APL on the JVC's in theory could very well be accurate with the JVC Auto Iris on and starting at the minimum locked iris position (-15), I have not tested but I could see this being a possibility.

But then you are NOT even remotely comparing Apples to Apples. As the max lumen output of the JVC will be ULTRA low compared to the LK970 and the 100% APL pattern on the JVC might be like the 20% APL on the 970....




Bottom line: (This is my opinion)

If your screen is 130" wide or less you SHOULDN'T buy the LK970 or the LK990.

But if you are over the 130" wide+ and as you keep getting larger the LK970 and LK990 become better and better. (I already have my JVC on High and Full Open Iris to get enough brightness.)


I will be testing on a 150" wide Seymour XD Screen, so the LK970 will be able to put up a tremendous fight.


*I will try to test the BenQ LK970 vs the JVC NX7 in my real world situation of full open iris and High lamp vs the LK970 and see what APL on the JVC the BenQ's LK970's black level will be at. I don't think it will be anywhere near 20% APL though. (5-10% is my bet)* - I understand this will upset some here, but that is how I run the JVC in "MY" real world. The Dynamic Iris issues when already pushing the projector to the limits make using Auto a non-starter to me. (Yellowing and Major Clipping)


Honestly, I am not sure why people sit and fight all day over this stuff tbh.

If your brightness is perfectly fine with something like a JVC or Sony and you desire no additional brightness then don't even concern yourself with the likes of the LK970/LK990.

But you could at least still consider the HT9060. There are still benefits to DLP and LED light source over SXRD and DILA with UHP light source. You just have to give up ultimate black levels to get those additional benefits.
You keep saying this, but it is not complete enough. Really need to consider screen gain and throw, so this really should be based on hitting a FL spec. 130" wide could be too big for the JVC if we are talking screen gain of 0.75 and for sure, if talking a longer throw with it. Or you could go bigger than 130" wide if talking screen gain of 1.3. Or you could just add to your size statement, based on 1.0 gain screen and projector toward short end of the throw. All I am saying is it is not quite that cut and dried where you can list a screen width only. New guys may take that as gospel and not be happy with the results, particularly if they are pushing to use a JVC/Sony on a low gain screen.
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post #2323 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 12:16 PM
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I have updated it for you.

But I tend to think most logical people will assume 1.0 gain if none is specified.

If you are buying something other than a 1.0 gain screen, you should already know why you would be buying such a screen.

Otherwise every time some one makes a general statement like I have, they would almost always have to get into detailed posts about screens and gains.


But I do know understand where you are coming from.

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post #2324 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i think this whole thread can be fixed by just one question : What is your tolerance for black level ?



if u absolutely need the deepest black than by all means u have no other option than a JVC , because u ll find anything else (sony/epson...dlp or not) not acceptable.



for me i have both, and i really appreciate the black level that my JVC produce, but once i tried and figured out my LK970 i found out that brightness is as important as for me black level , add to that the sharpness/clarity of that lens and the fact that most movies dont have many very very low apl scenes to the point were the 970 doesnt look good, it became my go to projector for all my 4k HDR movies.

Great info and spot on, but you just don’t understand that you and @ConnecTEDDD don’t know what a good image is or what you’re doing or talking about.

Since they can’t do it, then nobody can.
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post #2325 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Great info and spot on, but you just don’t understand that you and @ConnecTEDDD don’t know what a good image is or what you’re doing or talking about.

Since they can’t do it, then nobody can.
Why you have quote me and what are you talking about?

Why you say that I don't know what I'm talking or doing?

Why you are saying that I don't know what a good image is?

I have no idea who you are and never talked to you again, what's your problem?

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post #2326 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:03 PM
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RBE is subjective so no way to really measure it. All you can do is gather individual impressions of each and then tabulate results. I must not be very sensitive to it because I have to really force myself to see any on either LK.

I’ll hopefully get the chance to dig into my emails, folders and threads here to find the latest settings. I know this needs to be done to quiet the skeptics who seem to have all the time in the world to play home theater or are in the business so they spend their days doing so.

Either way, take my advice that you input the BASE SETTINGS and then actually do a normal HDR BT2020/P3 calibration (greyscale, CMS - but use each color’s brightness as a last resort to dial it closer to the target gamut, per engineers, to avoid banding and solarization]) to get things more in line for your environment and system. I know others can’t seem to grasp the concept, but hopefully you will.
hello.

I am having difficulty understanding this, how can you input base settings then calibrate on top of those settings, either something can be calibrated accurately or it cannot, i just do not understand.

Can you post your actual calibrated results with proper delta errors so i can see this and understand.
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post #2327 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 03:11 PM
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hello.

I am having difficulty understanding this, how can you input base settings then calibrate on top of those settings, either something can be calibrated accurately or it cannot, i just do not understand.

Can you post your actual calibrated results with proper delta errors so i can see this and understand.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i think this whole thread can be fixed by just one question : What is your tolerance for black level ?

if u absolutely need the deepest black than by all means u have no other option than a JVC , because u ll find anything else (sony/epson...dlp or not) not acceptable.

for me i have both, and i really appreciate the black level that my JVC produce, but once i tried and figured out my LK970 i found out that brightness is as important as for me black level , add to that the sharpness/clarity of that lens and the fact that most movies dont have many very very low apl scenes to the point were the 970 doesnt look good, it became my go to projector for all my 4k HDR movies.
I think there is a little more to it than that. For those that need a light canon then BenQ is making a good product to cater for those special situations.

However, for most home theaters the better black levels, lack of Rainbow effect, wider contrast, full P3 color space, and auto tone mapping HDR support is much more important than sheer light output.

I personally can't watch the LK970 for long due to all the rainbows off of highlights on a dark background. I also don't like the fact that I have to give up all the color space and lower resolution for this round of DLP projectors.

I hope that BenQ can eventually build a true 3 color laser or led that supports full P3 and eliminates RBE. I also hope TI comes out with a native 4k DLP with better contrast that can be used to produce some nice products for the future. It would be great to go single chip DLP if they could fix these glaring issues.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Why you have quote me and what are you talking about?

Why you say that I don't know what I'm talking or doing?

Why you are saying that I don't know what a good image is?

I have no idea who you are and never talked to you again, what's your problem?

I sincerely apologize ConnecTEDDD! It was my sorry attempt at sarcasm and humor. That’s why I added a winky face, but I guess it wasn’t noticed.

I mentioned you because apparently you assisted @tnaik4 with his LK970 building a 3D LUT with LightSpace which he loaded into his MadVR setup feeding the LK970. From all of his reports, you and he came up with some amazing results, but other certain individuals here can’t seem to understand that’s it’s even possible on these projectors.

Clearly you are an invaluable and extremely knowledgeable person in this field and I was certainly not questioning you and your abilities. Quite the opposite actually. It just came across wrong I suppose.


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..........



I hope that BenQ can eventually build a true 3 color laser or led that supports full P3 and eliminates RBE. I also hope TI comes out with a native 4k DLP with better contrast that can be used to produce some nice products for the future. It would be great to go single chip DLP if they could fix these glaring issues.

I believe that they pretty much have that with the HT9060, no? 3 color LED, very near full P3 and virtually no RBE from the reports I’ve read.
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Originally Posted by Ted Mcvey View Post
hello.



I am having difficulty understanding this, how can you input base settings then calibrate on top of those settings, either something can be calibrated accurately or it cannot, i just do not understand.



Can you post your actual calibrated results with proper delta errors so i can see this and understand.

What I mean by “base settings” for the LK970 is because it can’t do HDR BT2020/P3 natively, you have to force that signal to be input using something like an HDFURY device or Oppo 203, then really jerk certain image settings around to bring it into proper alignment to show a signal that is HDR with a P3 color gamut signal inside the BT2020 container. These are a starting point (baseline settings) that anyone with one of these can put into the LK970 to get the image very close to what’s needed.

After this is all set and done, then you can do a regular HDR BT2020/P3 Calibration workflow “on top of” these base settings to dial it in just right in your specific environment using your specific equipment and screen.

They’re basically just a starting point to get someone going so they don’t have to do all the crazy trials I went through to get to that point. Of course this was before HDR to SDR Tone mapping became a real thing worth anything and in most cases, good enough.


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Good luck...

I know for a fact I’ve posted my calibration results because I recall, I think it was coderguy, that made a comment on them about the color volume/brightness/luminance results. To which I believe I responded the same as I did you and Kris.
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post #2331 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 05:17 PM
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I know for a fact I’ve posted my calibration results because I recall, I think it was coderguy, that made a comment on them about the color volume/brightness/luminance results. To which I believe I responded the same as I did you and Kris.
You posted primaries only, not saturation tracking or colour checker delta E results from Calman.

And it was bobof who challenged you about the results (because it was lacking everything I just mentioned), I remember.
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post #2332 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
i think this whole thread can be fixed by just one question : What is your tolerance for black level ?

if u absolutely need the deepest black than by all means u have no other option than a JVC , because u ll find anything else (sony/epson...dlp or not) not acceptable.

for me i have both, and i really appreciate the black level that my JVC produce, but once i tried and figured out my LK970 i found out that brightness is as important as for me black level , add to that the sharpness/clarity of that lens and the fact that most movies dont have many very very low apl scenes to the point were the 970 doesnt look good, it became my go to projector for all my 4k HDR movies.
I think there is a little more to it than that. For those that need a light canon then BenQ is making a good product to cater for those special situations.

However, for most home theaters the better black levels, lack of Rainbow effect, wider contrast, full P3 color space, and auto tone mapping HDR support is much more important than sheer light output.

I personally can't watch the LK970 for long due to all the rainbows off of highlights on a dark background. I also don't like the fact that I have to give up all the color space and lower resolution for this round of DLP projectors.

I hope that BenQ can eventually build a true 3 color laser or led that supports full P3 and eliminates RBE. I also hope TI comes out with a native 4k DLP with better contrast that can be used to produce some nice products for the future. It would be great to go single chip DLP if they could fix these glaring issues.
This is ur opinion and preference and that is exactly what i was talking about, i respect that and it shows that the BenQ is not for u.
However RBE is user dependant, i m lucky i dont see it.
If u need good tone mapping which u should with expensive projectors than u need external solution like panasonic/radiance or the best "Madvr".
Also the LK970 actually is sharper/clearer than the native 4k projectors under 10k and some more expansive ones not the other way around.
The misconseption that it offers only brighter image is not true, it offers much more, the higher lumens make the colors really look great, the lens is excellent and sharp accross the screen, the motion is surprisingly good, i thought i would miss CMD but its really good, and being a laser is just the icing on the cake, turning it on/off so fast without long warm ups is something i never thought i care about but boy does it make waiting almost a minute to turn on the projector and another 30min or so for warm up annoying .
Its not good at extreemly low APL scenes, everyone knows that, for me though i can live with that when everything else is so good, i do wish it has JVC blacks and more QOL options.
It is surprisingly cheap if u look around.
I think the only projectors to combine both JVC and BenQ is the RS4500 and Sony 5000es, both are way too expensive.

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This is ur opinion and preference and that is exactly what i was talking about, i respect that and it shows that the BenQ is not for u.
However RBE is user dependant, i m lucky i dont see it.
If u need good tone mapping which u should with expensive projectors than u need external solution like panasonic/radiance or the best "Madvr".
Also the LK970 actually is sharper/clearer than the native 4k projectors under 10k and some more expansive ones not the other way around.
The misconseption that it offers only brighter image is not true, it offers much more, the higher lumens make the colors really look great, the lens is excellent and sharp accross the screen, the motion is surprisingly good, i thought i would miss CMD but its really good, and being a laser is just the icing on the cake, turning it on/off so fast without long warm ups is something i never thought i care about but boy does it make waiting almost a minute to turn on the projector and another 30min or so for warm up annoying .
Its not good at extreemly low APL scenes, everyone knows that, for me though i can live with that when everything else is so good, i do wish it has JVC blacks and more QOL options.
It is surprisingly cheap if u look around.
I think the only projectors to combine both JVC and BenQ is the RS4500 and Sony 5000es, both are way too expensive.
I don't know, the 4k JVC's are very very sharp with a good sample, and even the previous gen, but I guess it depends how close you sit.
Manni also noticed that in his review how sharp the NX series is due to Native 4k. Keep in mind the newer JVC's are not pixel shifting anymore, unless you want 8k shift on the RS3000.

Is there still a sharpness benefit, a little, but it should be incredibly minor for most people.

The issue I have with the newer JVC's is the cost and contrast you get for the pricing, as well as yellowing DI.
People say it's not an issue, but most of the veteran testers disabled the JVC DI, so it must be an issue.

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post #2334 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 06:51 PM
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That is great to hear, Steve!

It seems that you are in the same boat as many of us. I’m glad I took the plunge, too.

I think we are all in shock that native 1k CR could look so good.

I like you consider myself a deep blacks guy. I used to run my vp11s2 on a carada .128” 2.35 9 gain high contrast grey screen and even popped on an nd filter to drop the black floor.

I come from older Sony and JVC projectors myself but really am enamored with a crisp DLP look.

I had actually given up on new dlp projectors and had
Been looking to pick up a used vp11s2 and got really excited as I started to read this thread and Dave, tnaik, and 12gages posts.

I remember back in the day when art s traded in his twin g90s for the Sim2 Lumis and thinking to myself there must be something to high brightness and a quality DLP look.

I think the LK970 comes at the right price point that gives more of us a chance to enjoy it.
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post #2335 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
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Originally Posted by tnaik4 View Post
This is ur opinion and preference and that is exactly what i was talking about, i respect that and it shows that the BenQ is not for u.
However RBE is user dependant, i m lucky i dont see it.
If u need good tone mapping which u should with expensive projectors than u need external solution like panasonic/radiance or the best "Madvr".
Also the LK970 actually is sharper/clearer than the native 4k projectors under 10k and some more expansive ones not the other way around.
The misconseption that it offers only brighter image is not true, it offers much more, the higher lumens make the colors really look great, the lens is excellent and sharp accross the screen, the motion is surprisingly good, i thought i would miss CMD but its really good, and being a laser is just the icing on the cake, turning it on/off so fast without long warm ups is something i never thought i care about but boy does it make waiting almost a minute to turn on the projector and another 30min or so for warm up annoying .
Its not good at extreemly low APL scenes, everyone knows that, for me though i can live with that when everything else is so good, i do wish it has JVC blacks and more QOL options.
It is surprisingly cheap if u look around.
I think the only projectors to combine both JVC and BenQ is the RS4500 and Sony 5000es, both are way too expensive.
I don't know, the 4k JVC's are very very sharp with a good sample, and even the previous gen, but I guess it depends how close you sit.
Manni also noticed that in his review how sharp the NX series is due to Native 4k. Keep in mind the newer JVC's are not pixel shifting anymore, unless you want 8k shift on the RS3000.

Is there still a sharpness benefit, a little, but it should be incredibly minor for most people.

The issue I have with the newer JVC's is the cost and contrast you get for the pricing, as well as yellowing DI.
People say it's not an issue, but most of the veteran testers disabled the JVC DI, so it must be an issue.
I havent seen honestly the new 4k JVCs but woofer have both the 970 and the flagship JVC rs4500 and he comented that its sharper.
Yes i m with u on the pricing, specially the NX9 , i cant really understand why it should cost 18k, at least at that price it should be a laser and i doubt it is 10k better than the NX7 , the 8k eshift is just a gimmik at this point in my opinion.
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post #2336 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 07:25 PM
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I havent seen honestly the new 4k JVCs but woofer have both the 970 and the flagship JVC rs4500 and he comented that its sharper.
Yes i m with u on the pricing, specially the NX9 , i cant really understand why it should cost 18k, at least at that price it should be a laser and i doubt it is 10k better than the NX7 , the 8k eshift is just a gimmik at this point in my opinion.
You should see this commercial projector I saw at the theater a while back, I was the only one in the theater on a Wed morning, so I walked right up to the screen to see the pixels.

The sharpness was unbelievable especially since it was a 3-chip projector.
There wasn't even a hint or tinge of any white flare or dispersion, much less colored CA.
It looked like someone etched the ink onto the screen with a fine calligraphy pen.

It was sharper than my LCD monitor. Not sure they are all like that, but it was crazy sharp, sharper than the Benqs I'm sure.

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You posted primaries only, not saturation tracking or colour checker delta E results from Calman.

And it was bobof who challenged you about the results (because it was lacking everything I just mentioned), I remember.

Yes you’re right. I do remember that now. It was actually when I tested the color filters.

It was his famous “charts or it didn’t happen” comment post!

I’ve already told you though, I’ve seen the same things you show with your charts so what would be the point of putting them here. I’ve said a million times the image I get is amazing and belies the numbers you see. I don’t know why and don’t understand the technology and engineering behind it, but when I followed the advice I was given by the designers of these machines, it DID make a huge difference! I don’t know about you, but my final judge is my eyes, brain and heart, and every one of those organs gets more excited than I’ve ever been when watching HDR on these, and I’ve seen some utterly amazing video in my day and throughout my many careers in the industry!

Doubt it all you want, but I don’t know what else I could give you other than what I’ve given already because if I dropped charts and measurements as I said they’d be similar to yours and then I’d hear nothing but uninformed scrutiny based on the numbers alone, just as has already been happening.

This is why I say when I get to the mainland the only thing that will speak louder than my words here is the image itself and people experiencing it. Of course we all know and I’m sure there will still be haters saying “it can’t be”, who’ve never seen it but are somehow an expert on the matter.
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post #2338 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 08:27 PM
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Yes you’re right. I do remember that now. It was actually when I tested the color filters.

It was his famous “charts or it didn’t happen” comment post!

Doubt it all you want, but I don’t know what else I could give you other than what I’ve given already because if I dropped charts and measurements as I said they’d be similar to yours and then I’d hear nothing but uninformed scrutiny based on the numbers alone, just as has already been happening.

This is why I say when I get to the mainland the only thing that will speak louder than my words here is the image itself and people experiencing it. Of course we all know and I’m sure there will still be haters saying “it can’t be”, who’ve never seen it but are somehow an expert on the matter.
So you like a torch mode projector with some color issues that are not to spec, it's really ok as many people do...
I also like a bit of torchiness, just not nearly to this point.

Sure it looks cool and mesmorizing, but it's also too much at times.

The sharpness argument is somewhat interdependent, since sample variances and seating distance all come into play here. No one is going to see exactly the same sharpness, even our vision is different. So that is a very individual thing and hard to recommend on to be frank, just depends what someone is doing really and how close they are sitting.

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post #2339 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 08:39 PM
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Yes you’re right. I do remember that now. It was actually when I tested the color filters.

It was his famous “charts or it didn’t happen” comment post!

I’ve already told you though, I’ve seen the same things you show with your charts so what would be the point of putting them here. I’ve said a million times the image I get is amazing and belies the numbers you see. I don’t know why and don’t understand the technology and engineering behind it, but when I followed the advice I was given by the designers of these machines, it DID make a huge difference! I don’t know about you, but my final judge is my eyes, brain and heart, and every one of those organs gets more excited than I’ve ever been when watching HDR on these, and I’ve seen some utterly amazing video in my day and throughout my many careers in the industry!

Doubt it all you want, but I don’t know what else I could give you other than what I’ve given already because if I dropped charts and measurements as I said they’d be similar to yours and then I’d hear nothing but uninformed scrutiny based on the numbers alone, just as has already been happening.

This is why I say when I get to the mainland the only thing that will speak louder than my words here is the image itself and people experiencing it. Of course we all know and I’m sure there will still be haters saying “it can’t be”, who’ve never seen it but are somehow an expert on the matter.
Thats another way of saying you are not going to share any data, big surprise, Despite you saying you overcame the colour shifting, Brilliant Colour issues, and dimming propblems.

Go to your manual light mode setting on your LK990 and show us a greyscale measurement, then do it again at 80%, 60% and 40%. If you are honest and actually dont manipulate anything I will be insanely surprised if you come back with accurate greyscale in all 4 light settings. What I wager money you will see is an insane shift in red to something like 3500K as you go down. You said you overcame it, I would love to know if you actually did, because I dont believe you did, despite your rude responses when I challenged you on it yesterday.

I dont know about you, but you posting the data is not going to attract scrutiny, it will put it to bed.

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post #2340 of 2609 Old 05-30-2019, 09:16 PM
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So it sounds like the only fix would be adjusting it with external processing (Lumagen or HTPC).
If doing so, I wonder if it would cause gamma issue or unfixable banding.

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