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-   -   BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2917348-benq-lk970-4k-dlp-laser-12-999k-msrp.html)

anthonymoody 09-05-2017 12:41 PM

BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP
 
No chatter about this yet?

https://hdguru.com/benq-ships-lk970-...-laser-engine/

This a wobulator or actual 4K chip?

Mike Garrett 09-05-2017 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonymoody (Post 54748972)
No chatter about this yet?

https://hdguru.com/benq-ships-lk970-...-laser-engine/

This a wobulator or actual 4K chip?

Any DLP under 100K as of right now will be an E-shift type of device.

anthonymoody 09-05-2017 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Garrett (Post 54749048)
Any DLP under 100K as of right now will be an E-shift type of device.

Boo hiss. Figured but wanted to confirm as $13k isn't exactly cheap though in fairness I've not kept up with pricing for these wobulating 4K DLPs.

donaldk 09-05-2017 02:01 PM

It is the same as the big lamp/HLD units, assuming it is the same one BenQ displayed at ISE in February. Yes it is, actually working demo at Infocomm:


The ACER 8800 comes in the same housing as the Optoma 4K500. The Casio 8300 comes in a white version of the big chassis used in the first generation of XPR products from ACER, and BenQ. What is the US pricing on that Casio?

Ruined 09-06-2017 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donaldk (Post 54749510)
It is the same as the big lamp/HLD units, assuming it is the same one BenQ displayed at ISE in February. Yes it is, actually working demo at Infocomm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKIpmuyBhXk

The ACER 8800 comes in the same housing as the Optoma 4K500. The Casio 8300 comes in a white version of the big chassis used in the first generation of XPR products from ACER, and BenQ. What is the US pricing on that Casio?

Casio costs about $1000 less than the BenQ.

The thing that needs to happen to make this into a truly great projector is to have an iris toggle for HDR and non HDR content. Otherwise it's going to be too bright for typical small to medium dark home theaters.

anthonymoody 09-06-2017 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined (Post 54752596)
Casio costs about $1000 less than the BenQ.

The thing that needs to happen to make this into a truly great projector is to have an iris toggle for HDR and non HDR content. Otherwise it's going to be too bright for typical small to medium dark home theaters.

I remember when that seemed impossible for anything approaching reasonably priced!

donaldk 09-06-2017 11:00 AM

Ah I was told at ISE the Listprice would be €5000 plus tax, so a little over €6K. Casio may have upped its price.

What is the difference between this Coretronic chassis/platform and the R50 that seems to be the basis for the ACER 8800, and the Optoma 4K500?

The R50K is the MCLA version. The original Blue only laser version has a slightly larger box, and can offer more lumens, as there is no need to balance red;-). The platform is offered in anything from WXGA up. And the same engine is also used in the UST form, 4000 lumens in case of MCLA (P3), and 5000 in case of the Dell (Blue?) laser version.

donaldk 09-06-2017 11:03 AM

These don't have a laser level setting? I did not think these were too bright when demoed at ISE. I thought the UHD 60 was underpowered/washed out, on a small screen.

Spizz 09-06-2017 02:01 PM

Will this DLP 4k projector with the wobulation fix the noise issues of the others in regards to the mechanism that moves the chip, the poor video processing of all he 4k wonulation dlp projectors I've read where there is judder in panning, the poor 50hz processing. If these have been addressed I'll be impressed.

Ruined 09-06-2017 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spizz (Post 54755398)
Will this DLP 4k projector with the wobulation fix the noise issues of the others in regards to the mechanism that moves the chip

That depends on the chassis and how insulated it is for noise, so it will vary from projector to projector.

Quote:

poor video processing of all he 4k wonulation dlp projectors I've read where there is judder in panning, the poor 50hz processing. If these have been addressed I'll be impressed.
TI issued a firmware update in August 2017 that enabled native 24p (48hz @ 2:2) and native 50hz for all DLP 4k projectors. All new models should have this update. All older models can be updated via USB, but it is up to the manufacturers if they wish to do so.

Seegs108 09-06-2017 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined (Post 54755810)
That depends on the chassis and how insulated it is for noise, so it will vary from projector to projector.



TI issued a firmware update in August 2017 that enabled native 24p (48hz @ 2:2) and native 50hz for all DLP 4k projectors. All new models should have this update. All older models can be updated via USB, but it is up to the manufacturers if they wish to do so.

What they released were guidelines and software to add support for such features. But the manufacturers still need to code it out and implement a firmware update if they choose to add support for it. Such an update is not guaranteed. Your post makes it seem as if BenQ, Optoma and others simply have to provide a download link to what TI released last month. That is not the case.

Ruined 09-07-2017 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donaldk (Post 54754264)
Ah I was told at ISE the Listprice would be €5000 plus tax, so a little over €6K. Casio may have upped its price.

What is the difference between this Coretronic chassis/platform and the R50 that seems to be the basis for the ACER 8800, and the Optoma 4K500?

The R50K is the MCLA version. The original Blue only laser version has a slightly larger box, and can offer more lumens, as there is no need to balance red;-). The platform is offered in anything from WXGA up. And the same engine is also used in the UST form, 4000 lumens in case of MCLA (P3), and 5000 in case of the Dell (Blue?) laser version.

Have you seen or read anywhere how the MCLA projectors compare in RBE vs a lamp 6x RGBRGB color wheel? The marketing diagram makes it difficult to discern what colors are being flashed each cycle and how fast.

donaldk 09-07-2017 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined (Post 54758732)
Have you seen or read anywhere how the MCLA projectors compare in RBE vs a lamp 6x RGBRGB color wheel? The marketing diagram makes it difficult to discern what colors are being flashed each cycle and how fast.

Nope, personally I am not very sensitive to RBE.

The lead customer for MCLA was EIKI, turns out it launched its first two (WXGA/WUXGA) 8K lumens MCL projectors at Infocomm 2016. They started shipping in December or January. At 8K any RBE should be more easily visible.

BTW, Casio Europe got back to me, € listprice/MSRP is €6500 excluding VAT.

Spizz 09-21-2017 09:33 PM


Dave Harper 02-27-2018 02:30 PM

BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP
 
I am thinking about grabbing one of these to mess with. Does anyone have one yet or better yet have you tried it with an Oppo 203 UHD Blu-ray and its beta firmware for tone mapping HDR to SDR?

Dave Harper 03-10-2018 11:10 AM

I got a BenQ LK970 5,000 lumen laser XPR DLP here the other day and after a couple days fiddling with it using an Oppo 203 with its HDR to SDR tone mapping, all I can say is that it is the best I have ever seen Ghostbusters 2016 and especially Planet Earth II look, non-optimal native contrast notwithstanding! Simply phenomenal!!! [emoji33] I have now come to realize that high resolution, wide color gamut and lumens, lumens, lumens are what makes HDR truly sing!!! Of course great contrast too would be icing on the cake, but that's tough to do with DLP light cannons. I have a Sony VW885ES coming soon so it'll be interesting to compare them. I can't imagine the Sony being $18K better, but I'm sure even with the talk about it's not so great contrast, it still will beat the LK970 natively on/off. I gotta tell you though, even in the night scenes in GB at the end, I didn't feel lacking in the blacks and shadow detail dept at all!

uopdrmark 03-11-2018 11:11 PM

Thanks for the update Dave! I’m planning a 190” wide 2.37 screen using zoom method and need a lot of lumens. Throw distance is 29’. I had been looking at the Epson Pro L1100 which has 6000 lumens. Seems like the BenQ LK970 is also a very good option for those not wanting to spend 20k+. How would you compare the BenQ to the peso pro L1100? Any significant advantages for either?

jpbonadio 03-12-2018 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Harper (Post 55830960)
I got a BenQ LK970 5,000 lumen laser XPR DLP here the other day and after a couple days fiddling with it using an Oppo 203 with its HDR to SDR tone mapping, all I can say is that it is the best I have ever seen Ghostbusters 2016 and especially Planet Earth II look, non-optimal native contrast notwithstanding! Simply phenomenal!!! [emoji33] I have now come to realize that high resolution, wide color gamut and lumens, lumens, lumens are what makes HDR truly sing!!! Of course great contrast too would be icing on the cake, but that's tough to do with DLP light cannons. I have a Sony VW885ES coming soon so it'll be interesting to compare them. I can't imagine the Sony being $18K better, but I'm sure even with the talk about it's not so great contrast, it still will beat the LK970 natively on/off. I gotta tell you though, even in the night scenes in GB at the end, I didn't feel lacking in the blacks and shadow detail dept at all!

Thanks for the information Dave.

How does this projector compares to the Optoma UHZ65?

Tom Bley 03-12-2018 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Harper (Post 55830960)
I got a BenQ LK970 5,000 lumen laser XPR DLP here the other day and after a couple days fiddling with it using an Oppo 203 with its HDR to SDR tone mapping, all I can say is that it is the best I have ever seen Ghostbusters 2016 and especially Planet Earth II look, non-optimal native contrast notwithstanding! Simply phenomenal!!! [emoji33] I have now come to realize that high resolution, wide color gamut and lumens, lumens, lumens are what makes HDR truly sing!!! Of course great contrast too would be icing on the cake, but that's tough to do with DLP light cannons. I have a Sony VW885ES coming soon so it'll be interesting to compare them. I can't imagine the Sony being $18K better, but I'm sure even with the talk about it's not so great contrast, it still will beat the LK970 natively on/off. I gotta tell you though, even in the night scenes in GB at the end, I didn't feel lacking in the blacks and shadow detail dept at all!

Dave, are you going to look at any other 4k Blu-ray movies?

Mike Garrett 03-12-2018 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Harper (Post 55830960)
I got a BenQ LK970 5,000 lumen laser XPR DLP here the other day and after a couple days fiddling with it using an Oppo 203 with its HDR to SDR tone mapping, all I can say is that it is the best I have ever seen Ghostbusters 2016 and especially Planet Earth II look, non-optimal native contrast notwithstanding! Simply phenomenal!!! [emoji33] I have now come to realize that high resolution, wide color gamut and lumens, lumens, lumens are what makes HDR truly sing!!! Of course great contrast too would be icing on the cake, but that's tough to do with DLP light cannons. I have a Sony VW885ES coming soon so it'll be interesting to compare them. I can't imagine the Sony being $18K better, but I'm sure even with the talk about it's not so great contrast, it still will beat the LK970 natively on/off. I gotta tell you though, even in the night scenes in GB at the end, I didn't feel lacking in the blacks and shadow detail dept at all!

Will this projector do DCI color space or does it just do Rec709 with HDR? Most of these DLP's seem to only do Rec709, but if this actually does CI color space, it makes it an interesting option for HDR. How is it's dimming system, very noticable?

Dave Harper 03-12-2018 08:26 PM

BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bley (Post 55840210)
Dave, are you going to look at any other 4k Blu-ray movies?


Yes those were the only two that I watched a decent amount on after I nailed the settings or at least appeared to. I was going to do some testing and watch some more stuff on Friday night but then my wife came in and she saw planet earth II playing and she was in awe of what she saw so we ended up watching almost the whole disc one, haha!!!

We watched the animated film Coco last night and it was absolutely incredible on this thing! Contrast be damned, LOL!!! [emoji6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Garrett (Post 55840404)
Will this projector do DCI color space or does it just do Rec709 with HDR? Most of these DLP's seem to only do Rec709, but if this actually does CI color space, it makes it an interesting option for HDR. How is it's dimming system, very noticable?


According to one of the images on its web page it shows that it does what appears to be DCI color space or at least close to it and a lot wider than rec709. It doesn't appear to do HDR natively but that is why I paired it with the Oppo 203 and I'm using the tone mapping. I also did a pseudo-Harpervision by sending and forcing HDR from the 203 but the only good gamma curve to use is the 2.8 setting and I don't think that's optimal. There is a gamma setting called BenQ and I need to find out if that unlocks custom gamma curves if I put in the ISF password which I am in the process of trying to get.

I haven't been able to do any additional measurements yet but I hope to tonight to see where things fall.

I am not sure on the laser dimming but when I am in the white clipping patterns in the Masciola disk as I click the Nits settings up and down in the 203, The gray bars get clipped out but as you sit there they slowly come back into view one at a time so I am thinking it is some sort of dimming or AGC circuit. It doesn't say much in the documentation or online so I am trying to get information from BenQ but they haven't responded to me yet. Do you have any good contacts for them Mike?

Quote:

Originally Posted by uopdrmark (Post 55838806)
Thanks for the update Dave! I’m planning a 190” wide 2.37 screen using zoom method and need a lot of lumens. Throw distance is 29’. I had been looking at the Epson Pro L1100 which has 6000 lumens. Seems like the BenQ LK970 is also a very good option for those not wanting to spend 20k+. How would you compare the BenQ to the peso pro L1100? Any significant advantages for either?


I haven't seen the L1100 personally but I have read about it a lot and have quoted it for quite a few people. I would think that it would be very similar in the brightness department and I bet the colors really pop but I think it's not quite as detailed and sharp as the LK 970 will be due to a slightly lower resolution of the native panels and just LCD versus DLP technology. I was actually thinking of trying to get one of those here as well to see the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpbonadio (Post 55839608)
Thanks for the information Dave.



How does this projector compares to the Optoma UHZ65?


Based on the preliminary images and tweaking I've done so far it's not even close. The LK970 is so much more stable in its appearance and of course you can really see the sharpness and detail differences due to the lens being so much better on the LK970. The brightness is strikingly more apparent as well.

Aztar35 03-12-2018 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Harper (Post 55844636)

Based on the preliminary images and tweaking I've done so far it's not even close. The LK970 is so much more stable in its appearance and of course you can really see the sharpness and detail differences due to the lens being so much better on the LK970. The brightness is strikingly more apparent as well.


Dave, are you in PA where I could go to demo this?

Tom Bley 03-13-2018 05:30 AM

Dave, I'm not sure what your screen size, ratio, gain are. Would you care to share? are you using an AT screen?

How is the noise of the projector and are you running high laser for the 4K UHD discs?

Aztar35 03-13-2018 06:25 AM

Dave, when you use the 203 are you using HDR Off BT2020 or BT709 with the LK970?

Dave Harper 03-13-2018 08:37 PM

BenQ LK970: 4K DLP, laser, $12,999k MSRP
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aztar35 (Post 55845794)
Dave, when you use the 203 are you using HDR Off BT2020 or BT709 with the LK970?


I was using the HDR Off/BT2020 setting until mid last night and then got so frustrated that there was always a compromise no matter what combo you used, so I tried my old HarperVision method of forcing HDR to it and jerking around the settings and gamma and good lawd when I finally totally nailed the best combo of settings.......WOW!!! [emoji33] That happened about 2 am and I was up another hour just drooling all over myself as I skimmed through the reference level scenes in that classic movie!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aztar35 (Post 55844990)
Dave, are you in PA where I could go to demo this?


No I'm still in Hawaii but the Projector actually came from my partner dealer in central PA and will be returned there (unless I keep it!) so maybe I can arrange for him to set it up in his demo theater with my tweaked settings for anyone nearby to demo?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bley (Post 55845616)
Dave, I'm not sure what your screen size, ratio, gain are. Would you care to share? are you using an AT screen?



How is the noise of the projector and are you running high laser for the 4K UHD discs?


I'm using a Stewart ST130 1.3 gain non-AT 137" scope constant height using zoom method.

The noise is louder than the UHZ65 and Sony 285 I just had here. I can't find my audio meter so I can't measure. I've mostly run in high power because the image pop is oh so delicious!

uopdrmark 03-18-2018 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Harper (Post 55850886)
That happened about 2 am and I was up another hour just drooling all over myself as I skimmed through the reference level scenes in that classic movie!!


How are you feeling about this setup after living with it a few days? How would you rank it against other more common Home theater projectors once dialed in?

Ruined 03-19-2018 03:11 AM

I'm very excited about the Optoma HLD LED which supposedly will have the brightness of the UHZ65 but with less RBE and full dcip3. Would love to see BenQ release something like this also (like a revamped ht9050) , pretty sure the lk970 is still a 2x design.

Tom Bley 03-19-2018 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruined (Post 55880670)
I'm very excited about the Optoma HLD LED which supposedly will have the brightness of the UHZ65 but with less RBE and full dcip3. Would love to see BenQ release something like this also (like a revamped ht9050) , pretty sure the lk970 is still a 2x design.

That's not very bright when calibrated.

I'm curious as to what the calibrated brightness is of the BenQ LK970. Dave, have you done any measurements?

Aztar35 03-19-2018 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bley (Post 55880898)
That's not very bright when calibrated.

I'm curious as to what the calibrated brightness is of the BenQ LK970. Dave, have you done any measurements?

We haven't heard back from him in a while.

He must be lost in some of his real "techy" testing.

Ruined 03-19-2018 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bley (Post 55880898)
That's not very bright when calibrated.

I'm curious as to what the calibrated brightness is of the BenQ LK970. Dave, have you done any measurements?

'calibrated' not really comparable since the UHZ65 is RGBY and 85% dcip3, while the upcoming led hld is RGB and 100% dcip3. If both were to attain the same uncalibrated max brightness but uhz65 requires a Y segment to do so while hld led does not, arguably the HLD led should be brighter calibrated to typical SDR standards.

Optoma rates both at same max lumens, plus the chassis for the HLD led is designed for higher lumens - so possible the HLD led will be both brighter and more accurate calibrated.


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