Sony VPL-VW385ES Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Was reality Creation turned on, when showing the test patterns?
I don't think even Juan knows yet. Basically the pictures you are looking at are from Juan right after receiving the projector. It is projected on a wall with variable texture, it is skewed as it hasn't been squared to the wall yet, it was the out of the box settings which could be anything, the panels haven't been aligned, and basically the projector hasn't been properly setup yet.

We are waiting until Juan gets his screen, maybe Friday and then goes through a proper setup with his new projector.
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post #62 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Juan Granados View Post
I will post a peak white pattern test tonight. It may help one way or the other
Go enjoy that thing already ....
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post #63 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Granados View Post
It was and now it is not. Not really too much of a difference. I wanted to test the full field white pattern but cannot find it on the newly purchased R. Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite. Can anybody help?


Seegs108,


Is the banding or test patterns any worse than last seen on previous Sony machines in which case should I worry about a defect?

Juan

Have you made sure you are even surface and projected on your wall and tried a 4k picture in reference mode?
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post #64 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
If that picture is for real I won't get the 285 or the 385 even for free. That would drive my OCD up to 100%. I can't imaging anybody watching a hockey game with that kind of issue.

It has to be a defective unit. There is no way that Sony can sell a projector that way...
This pattern is not a solid white pattern but a single pixel, first white then black over the entire screen.
My VW520/665 doesn't show a solid white pattern like this.
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post #65 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Go enjoy that thing already ....
I agree with this. There is no agreement that ANY of the projectors are without some deficiency. No matter what you buy a compromise will be made. The good news, is the average person, who has a much more limited perspective and certainly not the tools or knowledge as many have here will probably be quite happy with their purchase over many years. Enjoy the projector! But hey, if one of the skilled people in this forum can be talked into setting up your projector for you, take advantage! You do have the first one!
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post #66 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Granados View Post
It was and now it is not. Not really too much of a difference. I wanted to test the full field white pattern but cannot find it on the newly purchased R. Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite. Can anybody help?





Seegs108,





Is the banding or test patterns any worse than last seen on previous Sony machines in which case should I worry about a defect?



Juan


I don't think you will see an issue with full field white.

If you look in the greyscale folders you should find it 100% grey it will probably say.

Some people are not realizing the artifacts are not from full field colours but from single pixel checkerboards. Extreme torture test.
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post #67 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I don't think you will see an issue with full field white.

If you look in the greyscale folders you should find it 100% grey it will probably say.

Some people are not realizing the artifacts are not from full field colours but from single pixel checkerboards. Extreme torture test.
Thank you.
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post #68 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I don't think you will see an issue with full field white.

If you look in the greyscale folders you should find it 100% grey it will probably say.

Some people are not realizing the artifacts are not from full field colours but from single pixel checkerboards. Extreme torture test.
Only one way to find out. Pull it up and take a picture. I'm not in front of my desktop PC so I can't tell him which folder the full field white test video is in. Maybe you can point him in the right direction. The tearing is definitely made worse by the single pixel test information in the frame. Let's get a photo of a full field white pattern.
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post #69 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Some people are not realizing the artifacts are not from full field colours but from single pixel checkerboards. Extreme torture test.
Extreme?!? Pretty much every other fixed pixel display can display it correctly. Try it on any LCD, Plasma, OLED, or competing projection product.
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post #70 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:12 PM
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This may be a good test. I'm hearing these may have an 8bit chain? https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...-patterns.html
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post #71 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Extreme?!? Pretty much every other fixed pixel display can display it correctly. Try it on any LCD, Plasma, OLED, or competing projection product.
The only projection that can show a 4K pattern on/off pixel correct, with full contrast is an DLP.
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post #72 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mirodk View Post
The only projection that can show a 4K pattern on/off pixel correct, with full contrast is an DLP.
What do you mean by full contrast? Are you suggesting the MTF of a DLP with a 1 pixel checkerboard UHD pattern is 1?
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post #73 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
What do you mean by full contrast? Are you suggesting the MTF of a DLP with a 1 pixel checkerboard UHD pattern is 1?
Yes
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post #74 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mirodk View Post
Yes
And what do you have to say about this image?

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post #75 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
And what do you have to say about this image?

Not at full contrast, but it's hard to see on this picture.
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post #76 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mirodk View Post
Yes
Well, you're wrong. A DLP projector doesn't have a MTF of 1 at the screen for a single pixel UHD checkerboard. Even if the chip has a MTF of 1 (it very likely doesn't) the image on the screen sure won't due to interactions with the lens elements. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not considering XPR DLP units which most definitely don't have a MTF of 1 with a 2160 TV line test pattern (at the chip level).

Last edited by Stereodude; 09-13-2017 at 02:48 PM.
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post #77 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mirodk View Post
Not at full contrast, but it's hard to see on this picture.
There was a lengthy study done about 5 or 6 years ago that showed the JVC DLA-RS35 to have essentially the same MTF capabilities as a high quality single chip DLP projector. I believe a Planar PD8150 and Samsung SP-A900b were used to compare to. Let me see if I can find the article for you. I don't think what you're saying is true amymore.

Edit: Here it is:

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=704

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post #78 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
And what do you have to say about this image?

Ugh. I clicked on the link in my email notification and got this:

Is that you holding the camera? You finally found something that makes my eyes bleed (I suggest hosting via Tapatalk).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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post #79 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:57 PM
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An MTF of 100% with any diffraction limited lens or light path is impossible.

It can exist in the digital realm though, just not in real life.

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post #80 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, you're wrong. A DLP projector doesn't have a MTF of 1 at the screen for a single pixel UHD checkerboard. Even if the chip has a MTF of 1 (it very likely doesn't) the image on the screen sure won't due to interactions with the lens elements. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not considering XPR DLP units.
I'm thinking on a full 4K DLP chip not the XPR. And I'm not taking the lens into it, only the chip. But stil with the lens it would look better.
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post #81 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 03:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mirodk View Post
I'm thinking on a full 4K DLP chip not the XPR. And I'm not taking the lens into it, only the chip. But stil with the lens it would look better.
MTF measured from the screen, as that's the MTF that matters, is not different between JVCs and DLP. Check here for a lengthy 3 part dive into real world MTF measurements. JVC has not back peddled on MTF performance since the RS35 days. In fact I would imagine the RS4500 to be better due to the quality of its lens.

http://www.videovantage.com/
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post #82 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
There was a lengthy study done about 5 or 6 years ago that showed the JVC DLA-RS35 to have essentially the same MTF capabilities as a high quality single chip DLP projector. I believe a Planar PD8150 and Samsung SP-A900b were used to compare to. Let me see if I can find the article for you. I don't think what you're saying is true amymore.

Edit: Here it is:

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=704
Yes I remember this article, I own a SP-A900 and I have never seen a JVC, Sony or LCD show Black/white pixel with the same contrast as the best DLP's
Unfortunately I have never seen the Z1

Last edited by mirodk; 09-13-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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post #83 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Granados View Post
It was and now it is not. Not really too much of a difference. I wanted to test the full field white pattern but cannot find it on the newly purchased R. Masciola's UHD/HDR-10 Test Pattern Suite. Can anybody help?


Seegs108,


Is the banding or test patterns any worse than last seen on previous Sony machines in which case should I worry about a defect?

Juan
Here you go!!

You can get them from rtings.com
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post #84 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I don't think you will see an issue with full field white.

If you look in the greyscale folders you should find it 100% grey it will probably say.

Some people are not realizing the artifacts are not from full field colours but from single pixel checkerboards. Extreme torture test.
Yep, not many projectors will pass that torture test.
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post #85 of 3650 Old 09-13-2017, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
I don't think you will see an issue with full field white.

If you look in the greyscale folders you should find it 100% grey it will probably say.

Some people are not realizing the artifacts are not from full field colours but from single pixel checkerboards. Extreme torture test.
My bad. I thought it was a full white pattern test. Now it makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!!

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post #86 of 3650 Old 09-14-2017, 03:37 AM
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Good morning! I was the first to ask for the Pixel test. It is my full intention to buy this projector. Nothing here will change that short of something crazy with the device and again thank you to Juan for sharing what he has so far and I look forward to more. He perfectly put it, was on the fence for last years model, this years model appears to have better lens, more HDMI bandwidth. IMO, If the image is half as good as the 675ES and improved over my 40ES I am good with that.

For years my friends and I have joked around about AVSForums which I love but truly miss how positive it used to be. The joke was always go to AVS if you want a reason to hate what you bought. When an owners thread was getting to the bottom of issues but understanding nothing is perfect. (Except the Kuro lol) While being happy for the new technology and our friends that share this enthusiast hobby. Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws its just some have seemed to grow to stop being civil or showing face in those regards. This happened to me just recently as I was ripped apart after I was asked some questions regarding my experience with the 5040 and RS420. You'd have thought I stole all the Epson fans babies!

In any case, I hope to see more test as I know this will have an amazing image playing. Personally I've heard these internally run everything at 8bit I'd like confirmation. Hopefully this threads gets back on track like the new Owners threads of old. Can't we just high a dude who bought an expensive ass toy and is willing to share its technology advancements and technological wallls with all instead of playing games and and movies?
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post #87 of 3650 Old 09-14-2017, 03:39 AM
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Enough with the bickering. Stick to the topic.
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post #88 of 3650 Old 09-14-2017, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Good morning! I was the first to ask for the Pixel test. It is my full intention to buy this projector. Nothing here will change that short of something crazy with the device and again thank you to Juan for sharing what he has so far and I look forward to more. He perfectly put it, was on the fence for last years model, this years model appears to have better lens, more HDMI bandwidth. IMO, If the image is half as good as the 675ES and improved over my 40ES I am good with that.
Good call TheBrandon. There will always be a better, faster, stronger replacement out there in technology. That is what I do for a living and I always get caught up in the "perfection" search. I really do appreciate and learn from each member. It is important to understand that seegs108 and javs are trying to help educate us so we can make an informed decision. I have not nor do I think that their motives are to malign Sony. I think they are rightly disappointed that this year's models appear to exhibit the same problems of the past. I think we all are in the same boat. However, they have also mentioned the PQ is very nice and I should get enjoyment from the sony purchase.

I came to this forum to get information. I love that each member has very strong and passionate opinions. That means that you are very invested in the technology and want to see it succeed. In my job, I always welcome counter opinions because sometimes I may be wrong and I always learn something as a result. Let's try to listen and understand each other because it will help new and existing members of the forum to make informed decisions.

As far as updates, I am still waiting for my screen to arrive, so I do have time to help out with information because in the near future I will be locked up watching 4K movies like the old Ghostbusters. Sorry about the long message. Thank you all for the information and support. I really appreciate it and this forum.

Last edited by Juan Granados; 09-14-2017 at 04:22 AM. Reason: misspelling
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post #89 of 3650 Old 09-14-2017, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Juan Granados View Post
Good call TheBrandon. There will always be a better, faster, stronger replacement out there in technology. That is what I do for a living and I always get caught up in the "perfection" search. I really do appreciate and learn from each member. It is important to understand that seegs108 and javs are trying to help educate us so we can make an informed decision. I have not nor do I think that their motives are to malign Sony. I think they are rightly disappointed that this year's models appear to exhibit the same problems of the past. I think we all are in the same boat. However, they have also mentioned the PQ is very nice and I should get enjoyment from the sony purchase.



I came to this forum to get information. I love that each member has very strong and passionate opinions. That means that you are very invested in the technology and want to see it succeed. In my job, I always welcome counter opinions because sometimes I may be wrong and I always learn something as a result. Let's try to listen and understand each other because it will help new and existing members of the forum to make informed decisions.



As far as updates, I am still waiting for my screen to arrive, so I do have time to help out with information because in the near future I will be locked up watching 4K movies like the old Ghostbusters. Sorry about the long message. Thank you all for the information and support. I really appreciate it and this forum.


Right on Juan!

Enjoy the projector!

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post #90 of 3650 Old 09-14-2017, 05:22 AM
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Enough with the bickering. Stick to the topic.
Yes, I agree. We tried to clean the thread up as best as possible. If your post was deleted without issues, it was because you quoted a post that was deleted. We've also issued some infractions. We may have some more cleaning up to do, if time allows.


@Juan Granados

Juan: Sorry for the issues that have arisen in your thread. It's always tough being the first owner to post thoughts and observations. Reminder to all that a request to Juan to provide X example or observation relative to X is just that a request (and not a requirement or demand).
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