Sony VPL-VW285ES Owners Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 12:52 PM
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Chapter 5 is a good place to start. What is your source device if you don't mind me asking?
A 100% totally legally-sourced UHD backup... God willing Kodi will be the source device if I can ever get it to play nice with HDR.
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post #242 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 01:23 PM
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A 100% totally legally-sourced UHD backup... God willing Kodi will be the source device if I can ever get it to play nice with HDR.
Ah okay, thought you had a physical disc spinner. No worries. Good luck with the fettling the Kodi too.
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post #243 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 01:25 PM
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can please anyone check if you can force to downscale a UHD Disc to 1080p but still output WCG/P3 and possibly also HDR? Either with an Opponent 203 or a Panasonic Player and a HD Fury? Does the Sony Display this correctly? Do you see a difference compared to nativ 4K WCG&HDR output?
I'm asking as this would enable FI and prevent Banding if the source is 50/60hz.
Many thanks to anyone who can do such a test!
(Warning: A German reviewer said the Sony will not use P3 and HDR with a 1080p Signal, even if it is displayed in the Sony menu when forcing such a stream)
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post #244 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 01:25 PM
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Red face

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BTW do you guys put the lens cap back on when not in use?
Never put it back on. In a drawer.
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post #245 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 01:34 PM
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LOL, yeah, it is lame in so many ways, but by god what a technical tour-de-force and a really good torture test for any modern 4K gear.
I have yet to actually watch the entire movie, just use it to torture test everything. I literally used it to make sure my cables were up to snuff and the equipment (player, receiver, projector) could handle everything. I really do not like the soap opera effect it has.

I find it a bit funny about the focus on the higher frame rates when I mainly am watching sports and 24fp movies. My son is working the projector out with his XBOX One games and loves it. The picture quality is excellent for those games for sure. In the end, I just want to set it and forget it mostly and just enjoy my movies and the ATMOS sound system.
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post #246 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 02:13 PM
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I really do not like the soap opera effect it has.
Well if by Soap Opera effect you mean real, fluid motion like when you see a car go past or someone walking down the street, then I really like and indeed prefer it.

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I find it a bit funny about the focus on the higher frame rates when I mainly am watching sports and 24fp movies. My son is working the projector out with his XBOX One games and loves it. The picture quality is excellent for those games for sure. In the end, I just want to set it and forget it mostly and just enjoy my movies and the ATMOS sound system.
The focus as you put it, is only down to lacklustre performance if specifically at 4k HDR HFRs.
Any other mode should look great, and it all depends ultimately what you will accept and tolerate with what you see.

Subjective stuff for sure, and just because I can't use mine how I prefer, (i.e. at HFRs in any available mode) doesn't of course, mean you would care about the same issue or even mind it if you see it.
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post #247 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 02:18 PM
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Well if by Soap Opera effect you mean real, fluid motion like when you see a car go past or someone walking down the street, then I really like and indeed prefer it.
Have you all seen The Circle yet? Its HFR too. Wife couldn't stand it. I haven't made up my mind yet. That movie sucked too.
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post #248 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 02:31 PM
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Have you all seen The Circle yet? Its HFR too. Wife couldn't stand it. I haven't made up my mind yet. That movie sucked too.
It did get 17% on Rotten Tomatoes - https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_circle_2017

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post #249 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 02:39 PM
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Have you all seen The Circle yet? Its HFR too. Wife couldn't stand it. I haven't made up my mind yet. That movie sucked too.
Why are they only releasing lame movies in HFR?

I would love to see a version of Pacific Rim for example, using a true native 4K master, at 4K 60fps in high chroma resolution, in HDR, at 12bit colour depth!
I think that would be quite the visual treat!
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post #250 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 02:40 PM
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It did get 17% on Rotten Tomatoes - https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_circle_2017
Yeah. It was pretty bad. Not to get too off topic but I'll withhold final judgement until I see a good movie attempt to use HFR. Avatar was supposed to be the definitive 3D movie (failed, IMO) and now the next one is supposed to be HFR - so we'll see, I guess.

The biggest advances in movies for me - personally - the last 20 years have been higher resolution, better sound, and larger aspect ratios.

If only the talent could keep up with the tech but such is life.
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post #251 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 05:01 PM
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I think I can officially call my HDR problem a cable issue. The projector is trying to go into HDR mode but it’s showing a black screen. So even a 6’ Monoprice high speed cable from 2012 doesn’t work. Ordered a new one from Amazon. Testing resumes this weekend.

In the meantime, GTAV looks absolutely stunning in 4K @ 120”. Breathtakingly beautiful. I said in 2013 this was the best video game ever created and I stand by that in 2017.
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post #252 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 05:19 PM
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I think I can officially call my HDR problem a cable issue. The projector is trying to go into HDR mode but it’s showing a black screen. So even a 6’ Monoprice high speed cable from 2012 doesn’t work. Ordered a new one from Amazon. Testing resumes this weekend.

In the meantime, GTAV looks absolutely stunning in 4K @ 120”. Breathtakingly beautiful. I said in 2013 this was the best video game ever created and I stand by that in 2017.
Is this GTA V on PC or on console? I hear some of the PC mods make the game look almost photo-realistic. I only have a GTX970 and 1080p plasma screen currently so haven't been able to max out the game

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post #253 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 05:57 PM
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Is this GTA V on PC or on console? I hear some of the PC mods make the game look almost photo-realistic. I only have a GTX970 and 1080p plasma screen currently so haven't been able to max out the game
PC version. No mods. Just the 1080ti doing a lot of heavy lifting!
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post #254 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 07:01 PM
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The Circle was not HFR. Just the usual 24p. (I work for the world’s leading digital cinema content creation & distro company.)
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post #255 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 07:52 PM
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The Circle was not HFR. Just the usual 24p. (I work for the world’s leading digital cinema content creation & distro company.)
Interesting. Admittedly, I didn’t verify that was the case. I remember we had just watched Billy Lynn one or two movies prior and my wife said “this movie looks weird like the other one” and I agreed. No motion blur. Soap opera effect like crazy. And I never messed with that setting on my old projector.

So now I’m going to have to rewatch some parts of this POS again, too. This place is killing me.

And no offense if you were involved with the creative side of this movie. But if you were, man, I’d love to ask you some questions...
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post #256 of 3778 Old 10-17-2017, 08:19 PM
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It did get 17% on Rotten Tomatoes - https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_circle_2017
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Interesting. Admittedly, I didn’t verify that was the case. I remember we had just watched Billy Lynn one or two movies prior and my wife said “this movie looks weird like the other one” and I agreed. No motion blur. Soap opera effect like crazy. And I never messed with that setting on my old projector.

So now I’m going to have to rewatch some parts of this POS again, too. This place is killing me.

And no offense if you were involved with the creative side of this movie. But if you were, man, I’d love to ask you some questions...
I wasn’t involved creatively. Just the DCP creation... I’ll refrain from commenting on its artistic merits.
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post #257 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 08:12 AM
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Has anyone read any reviews anywhere besides the one on projectorcentral.com? Can't seem to find any nor for the 260ES (European model)?
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post #258 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 09:03 AM
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useless projector

I've been anticipating the release of a $5,000 full UHD HDR projector for years. I've had the 665ES for almost 2 years and been pleased with the SDR video quality. The 665 was advertised as having HDR so much to my disappointment, when I plugged in a new 4K  TV the projector couldn't do the HDR unless I stepped down the refresh to 24hz to handle its 10-bit signal, which of course was unacceptable. I have 4 of them in 2 different homes. So when the 285 came out, I ordered 4 just so I could get the best quality from my 4K Apple TVs and Oppo 205 UHD HDR blu-ray player. I've had enough experience with Sony to trust that the 285 would be good, especially after reading the Projector Central review which was glowing. My four 665ES units would be going on eBay. Got the first 285 in last week and hooked it up to the  TV and turned on 10-bit HDR. Horrible banding issues in the menu on any graphical display of gradient color. Clearly visible and annoying in all content, which was eliminated only by switching the  TV back to SDR. Spent an entire day checking settings and changing them and searching forums. No dice. Watched latest episode of Star Trek: Discovery (on the CBS app only available in SDR) while in HDR mode on the  TV and it looked dark and too contrasty even after tweaking settings. Looked at it again in SDR mode and it looked fine. You're not supposed to have to switch between SDR and HDR mode on the  TV. It's supposed to do that conversion on the fly. Watched Saturday Night Live (1080i) on a TiVo Bolt in SDR connected to the projector at 4K resolution, and that looked fine. Watched the same show from Hulu on the  TV connected to the projector via HDR and it looked darker and more contrasty with the banding problem in gradated areas like graphics and logos. Switched the  TV to SDR mode and it looked fine. It appears the projector is displaying 8-bit color instead of 10-bit.

If you don't know what banding is, there are only a limited amount of colors, so if you were to look at a sunset, for example, you would see only a few different colors spread across the screen in horizontal bands instead of a smooth gradual transition from bright to dark.

So the problem is with how this projector handles 10-bit 60hz HDR. I'm returning the unit I opened and the 3 that just came that I haven't, thanks to Amazon's 30-day no-restocking-fee return policy. I will test the 385 next and, if necessary, the 675. Serious blunder on Sony's part. This projector is defective and should be recalled unless a patch can be made via the Ethernet port.
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Oppo UDP-205,  TV 4K, TiVo Bolt, Sony FMP-X10, Sony VPL-VW285ES, Sony VPL-VW665ES, Sony STRZA5000ES, Sony XBR75X940D, Sony XBR65X930D, Sony XBR55X930D, Paradigm Prestige 75F, Paradim CI Pro P80A, Paradigm PDR-W100, Stewart Cima 135"

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post #259 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 09:17 AM
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All three of those models have 13.5Gb/s ports so you're probably going to be disappointed. But on the bright side, you can return all four 285s and then add another $5K and step into a single 885 model that should fit the bill.

Out of curiosity, what's a person need four projectors for?
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post #260 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 09:24 AM
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All three of those models have 13.5Gb/s ports so you're probably going to be disappointed. But on the bright side, you can return all four 285s and then add another $5K and step into a single 885 model that should fit the bill.

Out of curiosity, what's a person need four projectors for?
Vacation home and main home. Bedroom projector and media room projector in each.
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post #261 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 09:27 AM
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Vacation home and main home. Bedroom projector and media room projector in each.
You married a keeper, for sure. Showing this to my wife after dinner. She thinks a 65" TV in the bedroom is gauche.
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post #262 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 09:30 AM
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You married a keeper, for sure. Showing this to my wife after dinner. She thinks a 65" TV in the bedroom is gauche.
Still single and living the dream, my friend. But nothing is less obtrusive than a thin projector screen that emerges from a slit in the ceiling, leaving an entire wall for shelving and art to your spouse's content. You just need a creative way to hide the projector on the other end.
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post #263 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 09:31 AM
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Still single and living the dream, my friend.
Bah! I knew it!
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post #264 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 10:35 AM
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So the problem is with how this projector handles 10-bit 60hz HDR. I'm returning the unit I opened and the 3 that just came that I haven't, thanks to Amazon's 30-day no-restocking-fee return policy. I will test the 385 next and, if necessary, the 675. Serious blunder on Sony's part. This projector is defective and should be recalled unless a patch can be made via the Ethernet port.
Firstly, four projectors? Wow! Jealous of that kind of buying power my friend!

Secondly, it really is disappointing isn't it?

I regret to inform you that they will probably (read likely) all do the same thing. I know the 550 (that I have and is the UK/European version of the 675) does the same thing.

You decided in good time and at least you didn't have to wait 10 months to find out that firmware won't fix it because of the limited hardware.

The one thing I wish I had done differently in hindsight, is go straight back to my dealer and reject there and then, instead of directly engaging Sony first.
Oh hum, but at least I officially registered my dissatisfaction as soon as I realised I couldn't dial it out in any way, and within 14 days.
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post #265 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 10:40 AM
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I've been anticipating the release of a $5,000 full UHD HDR projector for years. I've had the 665ES for almost 2 years and been pleased with the SDR video quality. The 665 was advertised as having HDR so much to my disappointment, when I plugged in a new 4K  TV the projector couldn't do the HDR unless I stepped down the refresh to 24hz to handle its 10-bit signal, which of course was unacceptable. I have 4 of them in 2 different homes. So when the 285 came out, I ordered 4 just so I could get the best quality from my 4K Apple TVs and Oppo 205 UHD HDR blu-ray player. I've had enough experience with Sony to trust that the 285 would be good, especially after reading the Projector Central review which was glowing. My four 665ES units would be going on eBay. Got the first 285 in last week and hooked it up to the  TV and turned on 10-bit HDR. Horrible banding issues in the menu on any graphical display of gradient color. Clearly visible and annoying in all content, which was eliminated only by switching the  TV back to SDR. Spent an entire day checking settings and changing them and searching forums. No dice. Watched latest episode of Star Trek: Discovery (on the CBS app only available in SDR) while in HDR mode on the  TV and it looked dark and too contrasty even after tweaking settings. Looked at it again in SDR mode and it looked fine. You're not supposed to have to switch between SDR and HDR mode on the  TV. It's supposed to do that conversion on the fly. Watched Saturday Night Live (1080i) on a TiVo Bolt in SDR connected to the projector at 4K resolution, and that looked fine. Watched the same show from Hulu on the  TV connected to the projector via HDR and it looked darker and more contrasty with the banding problem in gradated areas like graphics and logos. Switched the  TV to SDR mode and it looked fine. It appears the projector is displaying 8-bit color instead of 10-bit.

If you don't know what banding is, there are only a limited amount of colors, so if you were to look at a sunset, for example, you would see only a few different colors spread across the screen in horizontal bands instead of a smooth gradual transition from bright to dark.

So the problem is with how this projector handles 10-bit 60hz HDR. I'm returning the unit I opened and the 3 that just came that I haven't, thanks to Amazon's 30-day no-restocking-fee return policy. I will test the 385 next and, if necessary, the 675. Serious blunder on Sony's part. This projector is defective and should be recalled unless a patch can be made via the Ethernet port.

Thanks for the review. I have been interested in this projector for its native 4k panels, and have been following this thread because ultimately I would want 60hz hdr to work in a projector before I buy it too.

If 10 bit HDR is downconverted to 8bit by this sony projector and SDR is 8bit, why would SDR look better if it's 8bit already?
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post #266 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 12:04 PM
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Just played Grand Terismo Sport on ps4 pro. Oh the banding is everywhere! On every body panel in the cutscenes on anything with solid color. During racing the sky that's supposed to be beautiful looks terrible... I'm finally starting to feel like Archibald, how for 5k can this not play Sony play station games anywhere near what the developer(essentially Sony) intended. Really wanted to be able to park my steering wheel infornt of this projector and get lost in a race, that's never gonna happen....starting to consider my 90 day return with crutchfield.

What other projector out there can handle wcg+hdr+60fpd+4k or fauxk without banding for around $5000?

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post #267 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for the review. I have been interested in this projector for its native 4k panels, and have been following this thread because ultimately I would want 60hz hdr to work in a projector before I buy it too.

If 10 bit HDR is downconverted to 8bit by this sony projector and SDR is 8bit, why would SDR look better if it's 8bit already?
Good question. I can't confirm that it actually is 8-bit, it just looks that way. When the 13.5Gb/s HDMI bandwidth limitation gets saturated I imagine the Sony is starting to compress and throw out information, but I can't know that for sure. Another poster in this thread indicated it has something to do with the signal inside the projector from one circuit board to another. At this point it's a mystery to me.
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post #268 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Are people still trying to get HDR to work on projectors? :P

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post #269 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 01:12 PM
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Sorry, 4K noob question.... So is it only in HDR mode that the banding occurs for the PS4 users? Are you able to present the video in 4k without HDR on to correct the problem? Has anyone played Forza 7 yet and how does it look?
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post #270 of 3778 Old 10-18-2017, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drastic380 View Post

What other projector out there can handle wcg+hdr+60fpd+4k or fauxk without bending for around $5000?

Grab the best JVC you can afford. No banding at all and full 18gbps HDMI.
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